digitalmars.D - Can you port a 45+kloc commercial C++ game to D?
- Kai Backman (43/43) Oct 03 2005 Hello everyone and nice to be around,
-
Walter Bright
(14/14)
Oct 03 2005
"Kai Backman"
- Kai Backman (7/9) Oct 03 2005 Thank for the quick reply Walter. The D version is roughly 22kloc. How
- Walter Bright (17/23) Oct 03 2005 C++ version:
- Tom S (35/35) Oct 03 2005 Hi there !
- clayasaurus (2/44) Oct 03 2005
- Bruno Medeiros (5/5) Oct 05 2005 Btw, how is any of you measuring LoC ? (with what tool I mean)
- =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Thomas_K=FChne?= (10/12) Oct 05 2005 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
- zwang (3/23) Oct 05 2005 Call me paranoid, but the first thing I throw to LoCd is a zero-byte fil...
- JT (4/6) Oct 05 2005 Man: "Doctor, when I do this it hurts"
- =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Thomas_K=FChne?= (10/20) Oct 06 2005 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
- Ben Hinkle (2/6) Oct 05 2005 I think it's pretty common to not count lines containing only { or } as ...
- Walter Bright (4/6) Oct 05 2005 If one wants to go down that path, I'd count # of statements + # of
- Markus Dangl (4/5) Oct 05 2005 I use sloccount ( http://www.dwheeler.com/sloccount/ ). The output is a
- Kai Backman (12/13) Oct 06 2005 I just found another simple and quick measure. Zip the source up and lo...
Hello everyone and nice to be around, My day job is developing a commercial space station game called ShortHike. It's a constantly evolving project and has been in production since 2002= and selling online since Feb 2003. The current unstable version contains about 45,000+ lines of custom C/C++ code. The code is pretty streamlined, I've had plenty of time to keep things clean and refactored. I use only= basic C++ functionality and a extremely limited set of external C libraries. An important part of my development strategy is flexibility and gradual improvement of the game. There is also a separate (custom) scripting layer. I'm the only developer working on the code. The base code has been through 6 larger rewrites/refactorings since the project started (60-80% of= code reworked), and is partially based previous work dating back a few years or= so. Part of a larger rewrite I'm reconsidering my strategy to use C++ for the= base most viable candidate. All the external dependencies already have D headers or= they would be easy to produce. So here are my specific questions: - Is it currently feasible to port a commercial 45kloc C++ program to D? - For those with actual experience doing this, what problems do you foresee= I will encounter in the process? - Alternatively, what are the experiences in writing 50k loc applications in= D? - Can you point me to shipping application in the 30k-60k range? I would appreciate all input I can get to help me make the decision. This project provides bread on the table so you can understand I want to do my= due diligence.. :-) You can find out more about the game at: http://www.shorthike.com Thanks in advance for the replies and insight! Take care, Kai -- Kai Backman, programmer, kai shorthike.com http://www.ShortHike.com - space station game
Oct 03 2005
"Kai Backman" <kai shorthike.com> wrote in message news:2005103113238.284032 birch... - Is it currently feasible to port a commercial 45kloc C++ program to D? Yes. - For those with actual experience doing this, what problems do you foresee I will encounter in the process? You may need to rethink the memory allocation strategies you'er using. - Alternatively, what are the experiences in writing 50k loc applications in D? DMDScript was converted from C++ to D, and it took about 2 weeks. - Can you point me to shipping application in the 30k-60k range? DMDScript. Good luck! -Walter
Oct 03 2005
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 11:49:45 +0300, Walter Bright wrote:=A0- Can you point me to shipping application in the 30k-60k range? =A0DMDScript.Thank for the quick reply Walter. The D version is roughly 22kloc. How many kloc was the C++ version? (To get a rough C++->D ratio) Kai -- Kai Backman, programmer, kai shorthike.com http://www.ShortHike.com - space station game
Oct 03 2005
"Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> "Kai Backman" <kai shorthike.com> wrote in message news:200510312219.080693 birch...On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 11:49:45 +0300, Walter Bright wrote:C++ version: dscript source: 736,957 bytes support code: ~300,000 total: 1,036,957 D version: dscript source: 505, 806 support code: 0 total: 505,806 By "support code" I mean things like the gc, symbol tables, string handling, UTF support, array handling, regular expressions, etc. In D, those are handled either in the core language or in the standard library. (I broke them out separately because many would argue that in C++ one could use STL or Boost.) The D version is a line by line conversion of the C++ code, and the comments in the code are the same. The D version runs faster, too <g>.- Can you point me to shipping application in the 30k-60k range? DMDScript.Thank for the quick reply Walter. The D version is roughly 22kloc. How many kloc was the C++ version? (To get a rough C++->D ratio)
Oct 03 2005
Hi there ! I've been developing a 3d game engine in D for about a year now. I'm using OpenGL with SDL, SDLttf, OpenIL, Cg and more. The LOC count for the moment being is about 35k (not counting the above libs or their bindings of course). I don't have recent demo, but I'll be releasing one soon, with complete source code. I'm actively working on the rendering subsystem, trying to make it compatible with cards from RivaTNT to Geforce6 and a similar range of ATI cards, though still use the best features available on a given GPU (I'm implementing the shader/vertex cache system that YannL proposed on gamedev.net's forums). I'm also in the middle of some debugging work, since completely redesigning my rendering pipeline has produced a few bugs. Having experience with C++ programming, I think it would take about 30% more lines of code to produce the same result in that language. Furthermore, the debugging effort would have to be much greater. Making a complex D application isn't a dream though. You'll have to fight your way through compiler bugs and somehow different memory management strategies. For instance, I'm currently using dmd.132 because dmd.133 introduced an obscure bug in nested functions that I hasn't been able to isolate yet. I'm also using lots of malloc/free because the default new/delete are connected to the GC, causing any memory-intensive application to hang occasionally. E.g. while doing photon mapping on a 1M polygon model, memory use in my engine can get as high as 400 - 500MB and a fullCollect of the GC takes about 10seconds on my Athlon 2k+ 512RAM. Nevertheless, I think that switching to D was a great choice... I have considered switching back to C++ at a few points (extreme frustration at the GC), but just thinking how much cleaner, easier to write and debug D code is, I've had the motivation to stick to D. In the long run, I've never regretted it :) My project is being developed on dsource: http://dsource.org/projects/fragbots/ The forum's got a few links to old and ugly demos of the engine ( you can crash the GUI demo by clicking on a listbox with two mousebuttons :D - bug removed in the current version ). Good luck with your project ! -- Tomasz Stachowiak a.k.a. h3r3tic
Oct 03 2005
You'll see a huge improvement in compile time with D as well. Kai Backman wrote:Hello everyone and nice to be around, My day job is developing a commercial space station game called ShortHike. It's a constantly evolving project and has been in production since 2002 and selling online since Feb 2003. The current unstable version contains about 45,000+ lines of custom C/C++ code. The code is pretty streamlined, I've had plenty of time to keep things clean and refactored. I use only basic C++ functionality and a extremely limited set of external C libraries. An important part of my development strategy is flexibility and gradual improvement of the game. There is also a separate (custom) scripting layer. I'm the only developer working on the code. The base code has been through 6 larger rewrites/refactorings since the project started (60-80% of code reworked), and is partially based previous work dating back a few years or so. Part of a larger rewrite I'm reconsidering my strategy to use C++ for the base viable candidate. All the external dependencies already have D headers or they would be easy to produce. So here are my specific questions: - Is it currently feasible to port a commercial 45kloc C++ program to D? - For those with actual experience doing this, what problems do you foresee I will encounter in the process? - Alternatively, what are the experiences in writing 50k loc applications in D? - Can you point me to shipping application in the 30k-60k range? I would appreciate all input I can get to help me make the decision. This project provides bread on the table so you can understand I want to do my due diligence.. :-) You can find out more about the game at: http://www.shorthike.com Thanks in advance for the replies and insight! Take care, Kai -- Kai Backman, programmer, kai shorthike.com http://www.ShortHike.com - space station game
Oct 03 2005
Btw, how is any of you measuring LoC ? (with what tool I mean) -- Bruno Medeiros - CS/E student "Certain aspects of D are a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural."
Oct 05 2005
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bruno Medeiros schrieb:Btw, how is any of you measuring LoC ? (with what tool I mean)http://thomas.kuehne.cn/tools/locd.html Thomas -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFDRG423w+/yD4P9tIRAkEkAJ9oI0/YG2OJVkM3yTqYThCsDmewGgCeKC9m 9G+vqoYnORdGrsSrKowPfJQ= =ioQ0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Oct 05 2005
Thomas Kühne wrote:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bruno Medeiros schrieb:Call me paranoid, but the first thing I throw to LoCd is a zero-byte file. And Bang! Access violation. :)Btw, how is any of you measuring LoC ? (with what tool I mean)http://thomas.kuehne.cn/tools/locd.html Thomas -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFDRG423w+/yD4P9tIRAkEkAJ9oI0/YG2OJVkM3yTqYThCsDmewGgCeKC9m 9G+vqoYnORdGrsSrKowPfJQ= =ioQ0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Oct 05 2005
Man: "Doctor, when I do this it hurts" Doctor: "Then - dont do that. That will be $75." :D zwang wrote:Call me paranoid, but the first thing I throw to LoCd is a zero-byte file. And Bang! Access violation. :)
Oct 05 2005
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 JT schrieb:Man: "Doctor, when I do this it hurts" Doctor: "Then - dont do that. That will be $75." :D zwang wrote:;) Fixed -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFDRRY43w+/yD4P9tIRAk1HAJwMnkgzxJqKE1UN+64JtvLlfl7dLwCcCtAA 8bGxuDdxoMjq+G9kreJOZGo= =9FjI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----Call me paranoid, but the first thing I throw to LoCd is a zero-byte file. And Bang! Access violation. :)
Oct 06 2005
I think it's pretty common to not count lines containing only { or } as a LOC. From a few samples it looks like locd counts such lines.Btw, how is any of you measuring LoC ? (with what tool I mean)http://thomas.kuehne.cn/tools/locd.html Thomas
Oct 05 2005
"Ben Hinkle" <ben.hinkle gmail.com> wrote in message
news:di20ka$20ef$1 digitaldaemon.com...
I think it's pretty common to not count lines containing only { or } as a
LOC. From a few samples it looks like locd counts such lines.
expression nodes + number of declarations.
Oct 05 2005
Bruno Medeiros wrote:Btw, how is any of you measuring LoC ? (with what tool I mean)I use sloccount ( http://www.dwheeler.com/sloccount/ ). The output is a bit weird but it works :) Looks like there is no Windows binary :(
Oct 05 2005
On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:46:22 +0300, Bruno Medeiros wrote:=A0Btw, how is any of you measuring LoC ? (with what tool I mean)I just found another simple and quick measure. Zip the source up and look at the compressed size. Anything < 750kB is small, < 1500kB medium and beyond that large. The compression ratio is also directly related to your COBOL constant, which= defines how fast the bones in your fingertips will start showing due to excessive typing. -K -- Kai Backman, programmer, kai shorthike.com http://www.ShortHike.com - space station game
Oct 06 2005