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digitalmars.D - forum.dlang.org thread lovers suggested change

reply "Jesse Phillips" <jessekphillips+D gmail.com> writes:
After much use of the new NNTP reader I'd like to suggest a 
change that I hope other users of "Thread" may also desire.

The software is set up with this kind of hierarchy

Group List
     Message List
         Message

There are three views, Basic, Thread, Horizontal-split. To 
improve the experience of using Threads I would like to see the 
Message List to be in the same for as Basic.

Clicking on the descussion would bring you to the first post, but 
clicking the cool (30 new) brings you to the first new post 
(based on time or position, don't care).

The Horizontal-split would no longer include all of the 
descussions, only the one you are viewing.

Any opinions of those who also prefer threading over unorder 
reading?
Mar 09 2012
next sibling parent reply "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net> writes:
On Saturday, 10 March 2012 at 02:22:27 UTC, Jesse Phillips wrote:

 The Horizontal-split would no longer include all of the 
 descussions, only the one you are viewing.


Personally I don't like this idea, since the view mode is 
supposed to mimic newsreader software. It'll also prevent being 
able to get an overview of new posts in threads and subthreads at 
a glance (or scroll). What you describe sounds a lot like Google 
Groups, though, so it might make sense as an option or another 
view mode.
Mar 09 2012
parent "Jesse Phillips" <jessekphillips+D gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 10 March 2012 at 02:30:15 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

 On Saturday, 10 March 2012 at 02:22:27 UTC, Jesse Phillips 
 wrote:

 The Horizontal-split would no longer include all of the 
 descussions, only the one you are viewing.


 Personally I don't like this idea, since the view mode is 
 supposed to mimic newsreader software. It'll also prevent being 
 able to get an overview of new posts in threads and subthreads 
 at a glance (or scroll). What you describe sounds a lot like 
 Google Groups, though, so it might make sense as an option or 
 another view mode.


Yeah, this one I thought might get critisized. I think that a 
subthread (subject change) should be desplayed as a new thread in 
the "overview" (Message List).
Mar 10 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Saturday, March 10, 2012 03:22:26 Jesse Phillips wrote:

 After much use of the new NNTP reader I'd like to suggest a
 change that I hope other users of "Thread" may also desire.
 
 The software is set up with this kind of hierarchy
 
 Group List
      Message List
          Message
 
 There are three views, Basic, Thread, Horizontal-split. To
 improve the experience of using Threads I would like to see the
 Message List to be in the same for as Basic.
 
 Clicking on the descussion would bring you to the first post, but
 clicking the cool (30 new) brings you to the first new post
 (based on time or position, don't care).
 
 The Horizontal-split would no longer include all of the
 descussions, only the one you are viewing.
 
 Any opinions of those who also prefer threading over unorder
 reading?


I would definitely consider that to be a negative. "Threaded" has it right as 
far as I'm concerned. However, I use my e-mail client primarily, so I'm not 
normally one of the users of the web interface.

- Jonathan M Davis
Mar 09 2012
parent "Jesse Phillips" <jessekphillips+D gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 10 March 2012 at 02:45:24 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
wrote:

 I would definitely consider that to be a negative. "Threaded" 
 has it right as
 far as I'm concerned. However, I use my e-mail client 
 primarily, so I'm not
 normally one of the users of the web interface.

 - Jonathan M Davis


The issue I've been having is threads have been getting very 
long, so when I want to see what threads are recieving new 
messages (at least those I threads I'm interested in) I'm 
scrolling through a bunch of messages. Many times I'm trying to 
follow only a single subtree as the others lost my interest, but 
I don't know which tree until I know what list I'm looking at. A 
mark all as read would be useful too, but it wouldn't solve this 
particular lack of an "overview" for threads.
Mar 10 2012
prev sibling parent reply "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> writes:
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 03:22:26AM +0100, Jesse Phillips wrote:

 After much use of the new NNTP reader I'd like to suggest a change
 that I hope other users of "Thread" may also desire.
 
 The software is set up with this kind of hierarchy
 
 Group List
     Message List
         Message
 
 There are three views, Basic, Thread, Horizontal-split. To improve the
 experience of using Threads I would like to see the Message List to be
 in the same for as Basic.


I'm not sure what you're referring to, are you using the website
interface for the forums?



 Clicking on the descussion would bring you to the first post, but
 clicking the cool (30 new) brings you to the first new post (based on
 time or position, don't care).
 
 The Horizontal-split would no longer include all of the descussions,
 only the one you are viewing.
 
 Any opinions of those who also prefer threading over unorder reading?


1) Threading is a must to keep up with a high-volume forum like this
one.

2) Web forum interfaces suck. I've yet to see one that doesn't. (Doesn't
mean a good one can't be made though. I just haven't seen it yet.) I
personally use Mutt with the mailing list. Highly recommended. A real
NNTP reader like rn or tin is also recommended.

3) A *real* threading interface needs to show you the entire thread
*tree*, not just some randomly linearized form of it (like most web
interfaces do). Anything less than the full discussion tree will
inevitably bring confusion and disorder to the discussion. Like some
arbitrary 3-level hierarchy of messages.

4) A *real* threading interface must also allow replying to a specific
node in the tree (by setting References: and In-Reply-To: properly), not
just randomly tack on your response to the bottom of the thread, thus
breaking up the structure of the discussion and causing needless
confusion.

5) A *real* threading interface needs to let you manage subthreads in a
sane way. E.g., expand/collapse subtrees, hide a subtree or an entire
thread, mark a (sub)tree as read, etc..  Otherwise a large thread (with
complex branching structure) will become unnavigable, and people will be
liable to just post replies to random nodes at the bottom of the tree
instead of the subtree where it belongs, again breaking up the threading
structure and leading to general confusion.

Most people may or may not agree with everything I said. :-)


T

-- 
What doesn't kill me makes me stranger.
Mar 09 2012
next sibling parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Fri, 09 Mar 2012 21:50:47 -0500, H. S. Teoh <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx>  
wrote:


 2) Web forum interfaces suck. I've yet to see one that doesn't.


http://forum.dlang.org/set?url=%2Fgroup%2Fdigitalmars%2ED&secret=ueonfyyrxqnhpkuddoaz&groupviewmode=threaded

Best web forum interface I've ever used (and it's as fast as my mail  
client).

Also try the horizontal-split view (link at the top).

-Steve
Mar 09 2012
parent "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> writes:
On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 10:21:46PM -0500, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:

 On Fri, 09 Mar 2012 21:50:47 -0500, H. S. Teoh
 <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:
 

2) Web forum interfaces suck. I've yet to see one that doesn't.


 
 http://forum.dlang.org/set?url=%2Fgroup%2Fdigitalmars%2ED&secret=ueonfyyrxqnhpkuddoaz&groupviewmode=threaded
 
 Best web forum interface I've ever used (and it's as fast as my mail
 client).
 
 Also try the horizontal-split view (link at the top).


[...]

Pretty good! But it could be better. Being able to
expand/collapse/ignore subthreads would be a nice addition.


T

-- 
Creativity is not an excuse for sloppiness.
Mar 10 2012
prev sibling parent reply "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Saturday, 10 March 2012 at 02:49:06 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:

 2) […] I personally use Mutt with the mailing list. Highly 
 recommended.


Your replies regularly appear as a separate thread (with the same 
subject) on the Web interface, though, so I doesn't seem to be 
perfect either… :P

David
Mar 10 2012
parent "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> writes:
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:29:49PM +0100, David Nadlinger wrote:

 On Saturday, 10 March 2012 at 02:49:06 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:

2) […] I personally use Mutt with the mailing list. Highly
recommended.


 
 Your replies regularly appear as a separate thread (with the same
 subject) on the Web interface, though, so I doesn't seem to be
 perfect either… :P


[...]

That's really weird, because it shows up properly locally. Adam did tell
me at one point to check my settings for the References: headers, but I
didn't find anything that might affect it. And AFAICT, it *is* setting
the References: header. I'll have to investigate this a bit more to find
out what's going on.


T

-- 
Caffeine underflow. Brain dumped.
Mar 10 2012