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digitalmars.D - Improve D1/D2 home page

reply ZY <zy noreply.abc> writes:
I recommended my friend who has never used D before to try D2, and give him the
link to D2 home page. After a while, he told me he felt uncomfortable with it.

Here is some feedback:
1) These links in top-left don't make sense to him.
    * D ¡ú 
    * Language ¡ú
    * Phobos ¡ú
Especailly Phobos, because he doesn't even know what is Phobos. (You can't just
let people check all the tooltips)
Maybe they should be:
    * D2 Home ¡ú 
    * Specification ¡ú
    * Library ¡ú

2) He wants a official tutorial, it's very easy to find this in other
language's web site, like:
http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html
http://docs.python.org/py3k/tutorial/
http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/quickstart/
But he can't find this kind of stuff for D2 or D1

3) The most visible link in D2 home page is  "Learn to Tango with D". He is
confused when I told him Tango doesn't support D2 yet.
The second link is "The first D Programming Language Conference", it's wired
that such an unimportant link is put in this place.
Mar 19 2010
next sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"ZY" <zy noreply.abc> wrote in message news:ho05ev$3fr$1 digitalmars.com...

I recommended my friend who has never used D before to try D2, and give him 
the link to D2 home page. After a while, he told me he felt uncomfortable 
with it.

 Here is some feedback:
 1) These links in top-left don't make sense to him.
    * D ¡ú
    * Language ¡ú
    * Phobos ¡ú
 Especailly Phobos, because he doesn't even know what is Phobos. (You can't 
 just let people check all the tooltips)
 Maybe they should be:
    * D2 Home ¡ú
    * Specification ¡ú
    * Library ¡ú

 2) He wants a official tutorial, it's very easy to find this in other 
 language's web site, like:
 http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html
 http://docs.python.org/py3k/tutorial/
 http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/quickstart/
 But he can't find this kind of stuff for D2 or D1

 3) The most visible link in D2 home page is  "Learn to Tango with D". He 
 is confused when I told him Tango doesn't support D2 yet.
 The second link is "The first D Programming Language Conference", it's 
 wired that such an unimportant link is put in this place.




* D2 Home
* Language Reference
* Library Reference
Mar 19 2010
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 "ZY" <zy noreply.abc> wrote in message news:ho05ev$3fr$1 digitalmars.com...

 Here is some feedback:




Great suggestions!
Mar 19 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Bane <branimir.milosavljevic gmail.com> writes:
I have been thinking about the same thing the other day.

My first contact with D was 5 years ago. I had solid background using PHP and
Python, and occasionally used Delphi and C/C++, so I knew basics on
non-scripting languages as well. I have been searching for compiled language
with less frustrating usage than C, and somehow ended up on D website.

I had trouble understanding what's going on. Raw input was there, but some
simple basic guide was missing. I believe even now website is optimized for
more experienced programmers that know C++ that can read stuff and say "Hey,
this looks very familiar to what I use..." AND that are willing to dig website
enough to find what they are looking for. But for beginners or users of
non-similar language it is hard, hard and confusing experience.

That's why I quit D on first contact after few days of frustration. 2 years and
more C/C++ experience later, I came back to website, said something like "hey,
this looks familiar" and started switching to D.

Taken the fact that D has simple and powerful syntax as many popular languages
today (easy string & array manipulation, powerful built in types, no cryptic
syntax, compiler that reports errors pretty good, no hidden quirks or PITAs,
builtin library with pretty much enough for any start), I really don't see why
should D be considered 'good as second language'. Shit, it is good as first
language for beginners to!
All it needs is more dope friendly website, with tutorials and info that
already exists organized to more logical places, more useful menu with real
hierarchy, news section, FAQ, beginers section with some programming basics
(nothing fancy), and most importantly 'quick start' tutorial with flashing
orange link that shows  visitor how to download and compile 'Hello world" in 2
min and piss his pants of excitement, willing to find out more about this cool
language.

The only reason I dont bitch more about it because I cant do it (been told more
than once I don't distinguish green from red color when I tried to play with
webdesign), and its lame from me to say to other people what should they do.
Mar 19 2010
next sibling parent reply Bane <branimir.milosavljevic gmail.com> writes:
 All it needs is more dope friendly website, with tutorials and info that
already exists organized to more logical places, more useful menu with real
hierarchy, news section, FAQ, beginers section with some programming basics
(nothing fancy), and most importantly 'quick start' tutorial with flashing
orange link that shows  visitor how to download and compile 'Hello world" in 2
min and piss his pants of excitement, willing to find out more about this cool
language.
 


I would say one more thing, risking to anger people who think othervise: word
count or Fibonacci number functions are not cool tutorials for most of
programmers :) 'Hello world', 'I rule!' infinite loop or some openGL demo are.
Mar 19 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Bane" <branimir.milosavljevic gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:ho0eqk$m4e$1 digitalmars.com...

 All it needs is more dope friendly website, with tutorials and info that 
 already exists organized to more logical places, more useful menu with 
 real hierarchy, news section, FAQ, beginers section with some programming 
 basics (nothing fancy), and most importantly 'quick start' tutorial with 
 flashing orange link that shows  visitor how to download and compile 
 'Hello world" in 2 min and piss his pants of excitement, willing to find 
 out more about this cool language.


 I would say one more thing, risking to anger people who think othervise: 
 word count or Fibonacci number functions are not cool tutorials for most 
 of programmers :) 'Hello world', 'I rule!' infinite loop or some openGL 
 demo are.


I always felt "hi lo" was a good first program in a new language:

Guess (1-10)?

 5


Too low

 8


Too high

 7


Correct!
Mar 19 2010
parent Bane <branimir.milosavljevic gmail.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky Wrote:


 "Bane" <branimir.milosavljevic gmail.com> wrote in message 
 news:ho0eqk$m4e$1 digitalmars.com...

 All it needs is more dope friendly website, with tutorials and info that 
 already exists organized to more logical places, more useful menu with 
 real hierarchy, news section, FAQ, beginers section with some programming 
 basics (nothing fancy), and most importantly 'quick start' tutorial with 
 flashing orange link that shows  visitor how to download and compile 
 'Hello world" in 2 min and piss his pants of excitement, willing to find 
 out more about this cool language.


 I would say one more thing, risking to anger people who think othervise: 
 word count or Fibonacci number functions are not cool tutorials for most 
 of programmers :) 'Hello world', 'I rule!' infinite loop or some openGL 
 demo are.


 
 I always felt "hi lo" was a good first program in a new language:
 
 Guess (1-10)?

 5


 Too low

 8


 Too high

 7


 Correct!
 


Priceless :)
Mar 19 2010
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Bane wrote:

 The only reason I dont bitch more about it because I cant do it (been told
 more than once I don't distinguish green from red color when I tried to play
 with webdesign), and its lame from me to say to other people what should they
 do.


I'm not color blind (yes, I was tested!), but I might as well be because 
everyone says I have no taste in colors (or web design, for that matter).

There's no store set on the current scheme of the pages.

So if you or anyone has specific suggestions, feel free.
Mar 19 2010
parent Bane <branimir.milosavljevic gmail.com> writes:
 I'm not color blind (yes, I was tested!), but I might as well be because 
 everyone says I have no taste in colors (or web design, for that matter).


I believe design and programming skills don't go hand in hand.

 
 There's no store set on the current scheme of the pages.
 
 So if you or anyone has specific suggestions, feel free.
 


Easy :D use some existing design. Examples of some websites:

Minimalistic design I like very much: 
http://www.sqlite.org/docs.html
D is more complex project, so I guess it wont cut it.

Maybe some sort of wiki/tracking system for software development would be
usefull? It would solve horrible design + enable more people to change/add
contents? Here again design I like:
http://trac.edgewall.org/
There are many similar projects, they include repository, wiki, bug tracking
and all things D need.

Using some of it has many benefits: more people are familiar with it so they
would know how to use it and contribute + there are templates for pretty design
so no more bitching about horrible colors + it offers some predefined ways to
organize tons of data D is all about for easier use.

I mean D website has lots of data and lack of administrators, it is in danger
to evolve in this horrible mess:
http://www.firebirdsql.org/
So many bright colors, so much data,  so much noise (to be fair, it looks
better now than a year ago).
Mar 19 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jesse Phillips <jessekphillips+D gmail.com> writes:
I also suggest at least some of the changes found on this zilla

http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3497
Mar 19 2010
parent Bane <branimir.milosavljevic gmail.com> writes:
Jesse Phillips Wrote:


 I also suggest at least some of the changes found on this zilla
 
 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3497


True. Lot of D project related stuff is hosted on many sites, which is
confusing. http://www.digitalmars.com/d/dlinks.html.

I guess there will come a moment in future when something languageD.org will
happen so all wikis and sites can be merged to that one.
Mar 19 2010
prev sibling parent reply Robert Clipsham <robert octarineparrot.com> writes:
On 19/03/10 15:32, ZY wrote:

 I recommended my friend who has never used D before to try D2, and give him
the link to D2 home page. After a while, he told me he felt uncomfortable with
it.

 Here is some feedback:
 1) These links in top-left don't make sense to him.
      * D ¡ú
      * Language ¡ú
      * Phobos ¡ú
 Especailly Phobos, because he doesn't even know what is Phobos. (You can't
just let people check all the tooltips)
 Maybe they should be:
      * D2 Home ¡ú
      * Specification ¡ú
      * Library ¡ú

 2) He wants a official tutorial, it's very easy to find this in other
language's web site, like:
 http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html
 http://docs.python.org/py3k/tutorial/
 http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/quickstart/
 But he can't find this kind of stuff for D2 or D1

 3) The most visible link in D2 home page is  "Learn to Tango with D". He is
confused when I told him Tango doesn't support D2 yet.
 The second link is "The first D Programming Language Conference", it's wired
that such an unimportant link is put in this place.


In reply to your first point, I think there needs to be a link in that 
same column to the download page for dmd, I always have to type in the 
url to the change log manually because I can never remember how to 
navigate to the page...
Mar 20 2010
parent reply Robert Clipsham <robert octarineparrot.com> writes:
On 20/03/10 16:35, Robert Clipsham wrote:

 In reply to your first point, I think there needs to be a link in that
 same column to the download page for dmd, I always have to type in the
 url to the change log manually because I can never remember how to
 navigate to the page...


Having said that, I just found the changelog, it was far further down in 
the sidebar, I think a link to it and/or the download page needs to be 
at the top where it's more visible :)
Mar 20 2010
parent reply Jesse Phillips <jessekphillips+D gmail.com> writes:
Robert Clipsham wrote:


 On 20/03/10 16:35, Robert Clipsham wrote:

 In reply to your first point, I think there needs to be a link in that
 same column to the download page for dmd, I always have to type in the
 url to the change log manually because I can never remember how to
 navigate to the page...


 Having said that, I just found the changelog, it was far further down in 
 the sidebar, I think a link to it and/or the download page needs to be 
 at the top where it's more visible :)


Check out the navigation at the top: Home, Downloads, Search, Wiki, D
Mar 21 2010
parent reply Robert Clipsham <robert octarineparrot.com> writes:
On 21/03/10 18:32, Jesse Phillips wrote:

 Check out the navigation at the top: Home, Downloads, Search, Wiki, D


I've been on the digital mars site a lot... I don't think I've ever seen 
that though O.o Wow...
Mar 21 2010
parent reply Bernard Helyer <b.helyer gmail.com> writes:
On 22/03/10 08:42, Robert Clipsham wrote:

 On 21/03/10 18:32, Jesse Phillips wrote:

 Check out the navigation at the top: Home, Downloads, Search, Wiki, D


 I've been on the digital mars site a lot... I don't think I've ever seen
 that though O.o Wow...


It took me about six months to see them, too.
Mar 21 2010
parent Ary Borenszweig <ary esperanto.org.ar> writes:
Bernard Helyer wrote:

 On 22/03/10 08:42, Robert Clipsham wrote:

 On 21/03/10 18:32, Jesse Phillips wrote:

 Check out the navigation at the top: Home, Downloads, Search, Wiki, D


 I've been on the digital mars site a lot... I don't think I've ever seen
 that though O.o Wow...


 
 It took me about six months to see them, too.


It took me a while to see them too
Mar 21 2010