• Mark Evans <mevans zyvex.com> May 01 2001
• John Fletcher <J.P.Fletcher aston.ac.uk> May 02 2001
• Mark Evans <mevans zyvex.com> May 08 2001
• "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> May 08 2001
• "Javier Gutiérrez" <nikkho hotmail.com> May 09 2001
• Jan Knepper <jan smartsoft.cc> May 09 2001
• Mark Evans <mevans zyvex.com> May 10 2001
• Jan Knepper <jan smartsoft.cc> May 10 2001
• Cesar Rabak <csrabak uol.com.br> Jul 10 2001
• "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> Jul 12 2001
• Cesar Rabak <csrabak uol.com.br> Jul 12 2001
• Jan Knepper <jan smartsoft.cc> Jul 12 2001
• Cesar Rabak <csrabak uol.com.br> Jul 15 2001
• Roland <rv ronetech.com> Jul 16 2001
• "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> Jul 16 2001
• Roland <rv ronetech.com> Jul 17 2001
• Jan Knepper <jan smartsoft.cc> Jul 17 2001
• Roland <rv ronetech.com> Jul 17 2001
• Jan Knepper <jan smartsoft.cc> Jul 17 2001
• Cesar Rabak <csrabak uol.com.br> Jul 17 2001
• "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> Jul 17 2001
• Cesar Rabak <csrabak uol.com.br> Jul 17 2001
• NancyEtRoland <nancyetroland free.fr> Jul 18 2001
• Cesar Rabak <csrabak uol.com.br> Jul 18 2001
• "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> Jul 18 2001
• Roland <rv ronetech.com> Jul 19 2001
• Jan Knepper <jan smartsoft.cc> Jul 18 2001

Does anyone have such a thing.  I *do not* have the IDE.  I'm trying to
construct a simple large-model, 16-bit app using command line 
and a hand-edited makefile.  Right now I'm getting all kinds of header errors
trying to build this app.  It seems like there are probably a 
number of #defines I need to make in order for the headers to pass muster but I
don't know what they are.  In other words, the errors are 
occurring directly inside the stock header files long before it even gets to my
actual code.

Mark

Mark Evans wrote:

 Does anyone have such a thing.  I *do not* have the IDE.  I'm trying to
construct a simple large-model, 16-bit app using command line
 and a hand-edited makefile.  Right now I'm getting all kinds of header errors
trying to build this app.  It seems like there are probably a
 number of #defines I need to make in order for the headers to pass muster but
I don't know what they are.  In other words, the errors are
 occurring directly inside the stock header files long before it even gets to
my actual code.

 Mark


Which headers?  and what sort of error?  Can you give a simple example of what
is going wrong?

John

John,

It turns out that there are huge differences and gaps between what a person can
download from digitalmars.com and what will be available on the CD-ROM or what
is available to people who 
owned a copy of Symantec C++.

The basic story is that the online archives did not include the win16 headers,
which live in a separate folder include\win16.  Obviously without them I was
lost.  Walter kindly supplied them.

Mark


On Wed, 02 May 2001 12:38:51 +0100, John Fletcher <J.P.Fletcher aston.ac.uk>
wrote:
 
 
 Mark Evans wrote:
 
 Does anyone have such a thing.  I *do not* have the IDE.  I'm trying to
construct a simple large-model, 16-bit app using command line
 and a hand-edited makefile.  Right now I'm getting all kinds of header errors
trying to build this app.  It seems like there are probably a
 number of #defines I need to make in order for the headers to pass muster but
I don't know what they are.  In other words, the errors are
 occurring directly inside the stock header files long before it even gets to
my actual code.

 Mark


 Which headers?  and what sort of error?  Can you give a simple example of what
is going wrong?
 
 John
 
 

The complete package is 300Mb, which is totally impractical for download.


Mark Evans wrote in message <1103_989321260 evans>...
John,

It turns out that there are huge differences and gaps between what a person


or what is available to people who
owned a copy of Symantec C++.

The basic story is that the online archives did not include the win16


them I was lost.  Walter kindly supplied them.
Mark


On Wed, 02 May 2001 12:38:51 +0100, John Fletcher


 Mark Evans wrote:

 Does anyone have such a thing.  I *do not* have the IDE.  I'm trying to






 and a hand-edited makefile.  Right now I'm getting all kinds of header






 number of #defines I need to make in order for the headers to pass






 occurring directly inside the stock header files long before it even






 Mark


 Which headers?  and what sort of error?  Can you give a simple example of




 John

    What about posting it for the users who can download it? IMHO using
getright it is possible to be downloaded!


"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:9d99hh$17na$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 The complete package is 300Mb, which is totally impractical for download.


 Mark Evans wrote in message <1103_989321260 evans>...
John,

It turns out that there are huge differences and gaps between what a




 can download from digitalmars.com and what will be available on the CD-ROM
 or what is available to people who
owned a copy of Symantec C++.

The basic story is that the online archives did not include the win16


 them I was lost.  Walter kindly supplied them.
Mark


On Wed, 02 May 2001 12:38:51 +0100, John Fletcher


 Mark Evans wrote:

 Does anyone have such a thing.  I *do not* have the IDE.  I'm trying








 construct a simple large-model, 16-bit app using command line
 and a hand-edited makefile.  Right now I'm getting all kinds of








 errors trying to build this app.  It seems like there are probably a
 number of #defines I need to make in order for the headers to pass






 occurring directly inside the stock header files long before it even






 Mark


 Which headers?  and what sort of error?  Can you give a simple example






 what is going wrong?
 John

Please, could you use an other program for FTP than getright?
IMHO getright is one of the worst programs for FTP as it seem to open any
possible connection to a server. In other words, if a server has 10 slots left
for FTP connections a single user using getright will get all of them! For what
reason??? I really do not know. It hardly makes any sense to me at all.

As for the size, 300 Mb size. I agree with Walter for 200%. It's totally
impractical for download. The program being used hardly makes any difference in
whether it is impractical or not.

Don't worry, be Kneppie!
Jan



"Javier Gutiérrez" wrote:

     What about posting it for the users who can download it? IMHO using
 getright it is possible to be downloaded!

 "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> escribió en el mensaje
 news:9d99hh$17na$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 The complete package is 300Mb, which is totally impractical for download.


 Mark Evans wrote in message <1103_989321260 evans>...
John,

It turns out that there are huge differences and gaps between what a




 can download from digitalmars.com and what will be available on the CD-ROM
 or what is available to people who
owned a copy of Symantec C++.

The basic story is that the online archives did not include the win16


 them I was lost.  Walter kindly supplied them.
Mark


On Wed, 02 May 2001 12:38:51 +0100, John Fletcher


 Mark Evans wrote:

 Does anyone have such a thing.  I *do not* have the IDE.  I'm trying








 construct a simple large-model, 16-bit app using command line
 and a hand-edited makefile.  Right now I'm getting all kinds of








 errors trying to build this app.  It seems like there are probably a
 number of #defines I need to make in order for the headers to pass






 occurring directly inside the stock header files long before it even






 Mark


 Which headers?  and what sort of error?  Can you give a simple example






 what is going wrong?
 John

While I respect the fact that 300 MB is too much for download, it's also a
figure much, much bigger than what I needed to get going with 16-bit code.

I think at least it makes sense to post the code I got by private email.

Mark



On Wed, 09 May 2001 15:54:30 -0400, Jan Knepper <jan smartsoft.cc> wrote:
 Please, could you use an other program for FTP than getright?
 IMHO getright is one of the worst programs for FTP as it seem to open any
 possible connection to a server. In other words, if a server has 10 slots left
 for FTP connections a single user using getright will get all of them! For what
 reason??? I really do not know. It hardly makes any sense to me at all.
 
 As for the size, 300 Mb size. I agree with Walter for 200%. It's totally
 impractical for download. The program being used hardly makes any difference in
 whether it is impractical or not.
 
 Don't worry, be Kneppie!
 Jan
 
 
 
 "Javier Gutiérrez" wrote:
 
     What about posting it for the users who can download it? IMHO using
 getright it is possible to be downloaded!

 "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> escribió en el mensaje
 news:9d99hh$17na$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 The complete package is 300Mb, which is totally impractical for download.


 Mark Evans wrote in message <1103_989321260 evans>...
John,

It turns out that there are huge differences and gaps between what a




 can download from digitalmars.com and what will be available on the CD-ROM
 or what is available to people who
owned a copy of Symantec C++.

The basic story is that the online archives did not include the win16


 them I was lost.  Walter kindly supplied them.
Mark


On Wed, 02 May 2001 12:38:51 +0100, John Fletcher


 Mark Evans wrote:

 Does anyone have such a thing.  I *do not* have the IDE.  I'm trying








 construct a simple large-model, 16-bit app using command line
 and a hand-edited makefile.  Right now I'm getting all kinds of








 errors trying to build this app.  It seems like there are probably a
 number of #defines I need to make in order for the headers to pass






 occurring directly inside the stock header files long before it even






 Mark


 Which headers?  and what sort of error?  Can you give a simple example






 what is going wrong?
 John

May be the (minimal) stuff for DOS16 bit, DOS 32 bit, Windows 16 bit and
Windows 32 bit could be published in separate downloadable archives. I am not
sure however whether or not the license agreements cover "free" download for
all that stuff.

Don't worry, be Kneppie!
Jan



Mark Evans wrote:

 While I respect the fact that 300 MB is too much for download, it's also a
figure much, much bigger than what I needed to get going with 16-bit code.

 I think at least it makes sense to post the code I got by private email.

 Mark

 On Wed, 09 May 2001 15:54:30 -0400, Jan Knepper <jan smartsoft.cc> wrote:
 Please, could you use an other program for FTP than getright?
 IMHO getright is one of the worst programs for FTP as it seem to open any
 possible connection to a server. In other words, if a server has 10 slots left
 for FTP connections a single user using getright will get all of them! For what
 reason??? I really do not know. It hardly makes any sense to me at all.

 As for the size, 300 Mb size. I agree with Walter for 200%. It's totally
 impractical for download. The program being used hardly makes any difference in
 whether it is impractical or not.

 Don't worry, be Kneppie!
 Jan



 "Javier Gutiérrez" wrote:

     What about posting it for the users who can download it? IMHO using
 getright it is possible to be downloaded!

 "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> escribió en el mensaje
 news:9d99hh$17na$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 The complete package is 300Mb, which is totally impractical for download.


 Mark Evans wrote in message <1103_989321260 evans>...
John,

It turns out that there are huge differences and gaps between what a




 can download from digitalmars.com and what will be available on the CD-ROM
 or what is available to people who
owned a copy of Symantec C++.

The basic story is that the online archives did not include the win16


 them I was lost.  Walter kindly supplied them.
Mark


On Wed, 02 May 2001 12:38:51 +0100, John Fletcher


 Mark Evans wrote:

 Does anyone have such a thing.  I *do not* have the IDE.  I'm trying








 construct a simple large-model, 16-bit app using command line
 and a hand-edited makefile.  Right now I'm getting all kinds of








 errors trying to build this app.  It seems like there are probably a
 number of #defines I need to make in order for the headers to pass






 occurring directly inside the stock header files long before it even






 Mark


 Which headers?  and what sort of error?  Can you give a simple example






 what is going wrong?
 John

Walter wrote:
 
 The complete package is 300Mb, which is totally impractical for download.
 


Just after I posted a comment on this I found the reference with the
size quoted!

Taking profit of this post, may I suggest another possibility to spread
the DM compiler?

Consider arranging deals with magazines which publish cover CDs/DVDs. I
vote for PCPlus, http://www.pcplus.co.uk, but probalbly there are many
other worth consideration.

Regards and congratulations for bringing this compiler back!

Cesar

Thanks! It's fun to be back in the compiler biz again. -Walter

Does the magazine pay to do the cover CD?

Cesar Rabak wrote in message <3B4BB152.CA7C65FE uol.com.br>...
Walter wrote:
 The complete package is 300Mb, which is totally impractical for download.


Just after I posted a comment on this I found the reference with the
size quoted!

Taking profit of this post, may I suggest another possibility to spread
the DM compiler?

Consider arranging deals with magazines which publish cover CDs/DVDs. I
vote for PCPlus, http://www.pcplus.co.uk, but probalbly there are many
other worth consideration.

Regards and congratulations for bringing this compiler back!

Cesar

Walter wrote:
 
 Thanks! It's fun to be back in the compiler biz again. -Walter


Great! Incidentally, I arrived at your resume in Digital Mars web page
and learned that you're also the author of ABEL, I worked with EPLDs
(and DATA/IO products) from 1989 until 1994, and never realized you were
the 'brain behind' that product.

1989 is a very special year 'cause of an article on Object Oriented
programming in Byte Magazine, and guess what? Zortech was the only true
C++ compiler commercially available at that time... M$ had an affiliate
company IIRC Glonkespiel, whose info came in a card embedded in their
manuals...

 
 Does the magazine pay to do the cover CD?
 


I'm not sure, but I surmise yes! Probably it will be in the units range
per mag, however.

I'm positive that the person to be called is what they name
'acquisicions manager' (I saw an ad in the magazine about this).

I sincerely hope you can find a reasonable agreement on this, as I
already said, will increase the visibility of the compiler.

Regards,

Cesar

 1989 is a very special year 'cause of an article on Object Oriented
 programming in Byte Magazine, and guess what? Zortech was the only true
 C++ compiler commercially available at that time...


<g>
That's one of the reasons why I claim to have more than 10 years experience
with C++!

 M$ had an affiliate
 company IIRC Glonkespiel, whose info came in a card embedded in their
 manuals...


Zortech also sold Glockenspiel Common View separately with one of their
releases... I am not sure if I recall the version, but I think it was with
2.0 or 2.1...

Jan

Jan Knepper wrote:
 
 1989 is a very special year 'cause of an article on Object Oriented
 programming in Byte Magazine, and guess what? Zortech was the only true
 C++ compiler commercially available at that time...


 <g>
 That's one of the reasons why I claim to have more than 10 years experience
 with C++!
 


Oh boy I'm starting to feel 'old' with this kind of arithmetics ;-)

 M$ had an affiliate
 company IIRC Glonkespiel, whose info came in a card embedded in their
 manuals...


 Zortech also sold Glockenspiel Common View separately with one of their
 releases... I am not sure if I recall the version, but I think it was with
 2.0 or 2.1...
 


I see, never noticed this... a that times using CV to debug OO software
was a concept clash for us.

Cesar

Cesar Rabak a écrit :

 Great! Incidentally, I arrived at your resume in Digital Mars web page
 and learned that you're also the author of ABEL, I worked with EPLDs
 (and DATA/IO products) from 1989 until 1994, and never realized you were
 the 'brain behind' that product.


What !

ABEL HDL was written by Walter ?

I widely use ABEL HDL with LATTICE CPLD products.

this world is little and Walter everywhere !

Congratulations

Roland

I designed the language. I implemented it along with Mike Holley, Mary
Bailey, Charles Olivier, Dave Pellerin, and Bjorn Freeman-Benson. The
success of ABEL surprised everyone <g>.

Roland wrote in message <3B52DBBA.5940282D ronetech.com>...
Cesar Rabak a écrit :

 Great! Incidentally, I arrived at your resume in Digital Mars web page
 and learned that you're also the author of ABEL, I worked with EPLDs
 (and DATA/IO products) from 1989 until 1994, and never realized you were
 the 'brain behind' that product.


What !

ABEL HDL was written by Walter ?

I widely use ABEL HDL with LATTICE CPLD products.

this world is little and Walter everywhere !

Congratulations

Roland

I take the risk to be out of the subject of this newsgroup again, just to
express my feeling about HDL langages:

lot of fun to program, VERY hard to debug but facinating: it is like making
hardware with software.

magic isn't it ?

Walter a écrit :

 I designed the language. I implemented it along with Mike Holley, Mary
 Bailey, Charles Olivier, Dave Pellerin, and Bjorn Freeman-Benson. The
 success of ABEL surprised everyone <g>.

 Roland wrote in message <3B52DBBA.5940282D ronetech.com>...
Cesar Rabak a écrit :

 Great! Incidentally, I arrived at your resume in Digital Mars web page
 and learned that you're also the author of ABEL, I worked with EPLDs
 (and DATA/IO products) from 1989 until 1994, and never realized you were
 the 'brain behind' that product.


What !

ABEL HDL was written by Walter ?

I widely use ABEL HDL with LATTICE CPLD products.

this world is little and Walter everywhere !

Congratulations

Roland

Roland,

I do not think any one would worry about anyone getting off-topic in any of
these
newsgroups. They are not operated by a huge corporate environment with strict
rules... <g>
May be however, I should create a group "chat"???

Jan



Roland wrote:

 I take the risk to be out of the subject of this newsgroup again, just to
 express my feeling about HDL langages:

 lot of fun to program, VERY hard to debug but facinating: it is like making
 hardware with software.

 magic isn't it ?

 Walter a écrit :

 I designed the language. I implemented it along with Mike Holley, Mary
 Bailey, Charles Olivier, Dave Pellerin, and Bjorn Freeman-Benson. The
 success of ABEL surprised everyone <g>.

 Roland wrote in message <3B52DBBA.5940282D ronetech.com>...
Cesar Rabak a écrit :

 Great! Incidentally, I arrived at your resume in Digital Mars web page
 and learned that you're also the author of ABEL, I worked with EPLDs
 (and DATA/IO products) from 1989 until 1994, and never realized you were
 the 'brain behind' that product.


What !

ABEL HDL was written by Walter ?

I widely use ABEL HDL with LATTICE CPLD products.

this world is little and Walter everywhere !

Congratulations

Roland

Jan Knepper a écrit :

 I do not think any one would worry about anyone getting off-topic in any of
these
 newsgroups. They are not operated by a huge corporate environment with strict
 rules... <g>


so lets go:

when a motherboard with a big cpu and several reprogrammable CPLD around ?..
..and a new DM C++ that makes programs able to reprogram the CPLDs 'on the fly'
during
execution time when it need some boost for a specific task ?

it's a jock but i wonder if it was tried before.

 May be however, I should create a group "chat"???


for me it's a good idea

Continue like that !

Regards

Roland

 so lets go:

 when a motherboard with a big cpu and several reprogrammable CPLD around ?..
 ..and a new DM C++ that makes programs able to reprogram the CPLDs 'on the fly'
 during
 execution time when it need some boost for a specific task ?

 it's a jock but i wonder if it was tried before.


<g>

 May be however, I should create a group "chat"???




Done!

Take care!
Jan

Roland wrote:
 
 I take the risk to be out of the subject of this newsgroup again, just to
 express my feeling about HDL langages:


Before we get at the reprimend. . .

 
 lot of fun to program, VERY hard to debug but facinating: it is like making
 hardware with software.
 
 magic isn't it ?
 


Yes sometimes it felt like that. Or, gave to HW engineers the feel that
SW engineers enjoyed for half a century ;-)

Cesar Rabak wrote in message <3B54DA31.C46FF171 uol.com.br>...
Yes sometimes it felt like that. Or, gave to HW engineers the feel that
SW engineers enjoyed for half a century ;-)


Some of use software guys miss the visceral thrill of soldering together
real parts!

(Excuse me while I go down to the basement and saw some wood.)

Walter wrote:
 
 Cesar Rabak wrote in message <3B54DA31.C46FF171 uol.com.br>...
Yes sometimes it felt like that. Or, gave to HW engineers the feel that
SW engineers enjoyed for half a century ;-)


 Some of use software guys miss the visceral thrill of soldering together
 real parts!


I know what you talk about: I've a field service engineer for more than
ten years. . . and I am a licensed radio amateur operator... ;-)

 
 (Excuse me while I go down to the basement and saw some wood.)


This weekend my son and me had a similar pleasure (we replaced our
kitchen sink)...

[]

Cesar

all chip are SMD now
did you ever try to sold a SMD chip ?


Walter a écrit :

 Cesar Rabak wrote in message <3B54DA31.C46FF171 uol.com.br>...
Yes sometimes it felt like that. Or, gave to HW engineers the feel that
SW engineers enjoyed for half a century ;-)


 Some of use software guys miss the visceral thrill of soldering together
 real parts!

 (Excuse me while I go down to the basement and saw some wood.)

NancyEtRoland wrote:
 
 all chip are SMD now
 did you ever try to sold a SMD chip ?
 


Your affirmation "all chip" is somewhat exagerated! Anyway, there are
fixtures (kind of pantographs) available for manual handling of these
small specimens and even a small hot air blower for solrering at once
the solder drops of these SMD packages.

Obviously its use is for breadboarding/prototyping and (somewhat less
useful nowadays) repair work.

HTH

Cesar

Nope. I don't even know what it is.

NancyEtRoland wrote in message <3B55F5E3.694F2180 free.fr>...
all chip are SMD now
did you ever try to sold a SMD chip ?


Walter a écrit :

 Cesar Rabak wrote in message <3B54DA31.C46FF171 uol.com.br>...
Yes sometimes it felt like that. Or, gave to HW engineers the feel that
SW engineers enjoyed for half a century ;-)


 Some of use software guys miss the visceral thrill of soldering together
 real parts!

 (Excuse me while I go down to the basement and saw some wood.)

Surface Mounted Device, 0.05 inchs or less between pins, 128 pins or more to
sold around a square package.
good luck !

Roland

Walter a écrit :

 Nope. I don't even know what it is.

 NancyEtRoland wrote in message <3B55F5E3.694F2180 free.fr>...
all chip are SMD now
did you ever try to sold a SMD chip ?

Walter wrote:

 Some of use software guys miss the visceral thrill of soldering together
 real parts!


Tell me about it...
Burned my fingers more than once soldering things together...

 (Excuse me while I go down to the basement and saw some wood.)


I still tend to do that as well, but I think as of today we found a good and
reliable carpenter...

Jan