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digitalmars.D - std.(experimental.)logger voting manager wanted

reply "Robert burner Schadek" <rburners gmail.com> writes:
std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. The 
idea was to mature stuff in experimental for one release and then 
have a vote on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a forum 
thread?
Jun 12 2015
next sibling parent reply "extrawurst" <stephan extrawurst.org> writes:
On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 12:58:46 UTC, Robert burner Schadek 
wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. 
 The idea was to mature stuff in experimental for one release 
 and then have a vote on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a 
 forum thread?


By the way do you know of any project using it ?
Do you have any idea if it is an option for vibe.d to switch to 
your logger ?

-- Stephan
Jun 12 2015
next sibling parent "Marc =?UTF-8?B?U2Now7x0eiI=?= <schuetzm gmx.net> writes:
On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 13:22:59 UTC, extrawurst wrote:

 On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 12:58:46 UTC, Robert burner Schadek 
 wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. 
 The idea was to mature stuff in experimental for one release 
 and then have a vote on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a 
 forum thread?


 By the way do you know of any project using it ?
 Do you have any idea if it is an option for vibe.d to switch to 
 your logger ?


I'm using it in a (non-public) vibe.d based project. It works, 
but I'm not doing anything fancy with it.
Jun 12 2015
prev sibling parent "Yuxuan Shui" <yshuiv7 gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 13:22:59 UTC, extrawurst wrote:

 On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 12:58:46 UTC, Robert burner Schadek 
 wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. 
 The idea was to mature stuff in experimental for one release 
 and then have a vote on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a 
 forum thread?


 By the way do you know of any project using it ?


GFM, a video game/multimedia library uses it. 
https://github.com/d-gamedev-team/gfm


 Do you have any idea if it is an option for vibe.d to switch to 
 your logger ?

 -- Stephan
Jun 12 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "extrawurst" <stephan extrawurst.org> writes:
On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 12:58:46 UTC, Robert burner Schadek 
wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. 
 The idea was to mature stuff in experimental for one release 
 and then have a vote on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a 
 forum thread?


I found one issue using it the last day: It does not seem to be 
formatting arguments in the XYZf() methods quite the same as 
writefln. for example an exception object ist not automatically 
converted to call its .toString() when passing errorf("err: 
%s",e);
Is that intended or a bug ?
Jun 13 2015
parent "Adrian Matoga" <epi atari8.info> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 08:17:24 UTC, extrawurst wrote:

 I found one issue using it the last day: It does not seem to be 
 formatting arguments in the XYZf() methods quite the same as 
 writefln. for example an exception object ist not automatically 
 converted to call its .toString() when passing errorf("err: 
 %s",e);
 Is that intended or a bug ?


The following must definitely be a bug:

import std.stdio;
import std.experimental.logger;

void main()
{
	writefln("{%04d}", 15);
	infof("{%04d}", 15);
	writefln("{%08d}", 42);
	infof("{%08d}", 42);
}

Result (Linux x86_64, dmd 2.067.1):

$ rdmd logg.d
{0015}
2015-06-13T10:29:25.014:logg.d:main:7 {00015}
{00000042}
2015-06-13T10:29:25.014:logg.d:main:9 {00000000000000000000042}
Jun 13 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Mike" <none none.com> writes:
On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 12:58:46 UTC, Robert burner Schadek 
wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. 
 The idea was to mature stuff in experimental for one release 
 and then have a vote on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a 
 forum thread?


Is that really all there is to it (counting votes in a thread)?  
If so, I'll do it.

Mike
Jun 13 2015
parent reply "Mike" <none none.com> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 08:37:57 UTC, Mike wrote:

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a 
 forum thread?


 Is that really all there is to it (counting votes in a thread)?
  If so, I'll do it.

 Mike


The vote tally on the Review Queue page (6-yes, 6-no) does not 
agree with the vote tally on the std.experimental.logger review 
page (6-yes, 7-no). Furthermore, no one on the Phobos team voted 
yes (perhaps not a problem, but a concern).

Documentation on the voting process [3] doesn't state what 
constitutes approval.  If it is majority only, then according to 
the std.experimental.logger review [2], it shouldn't have even 
made it into std.experimental.  Some clarification here would be 
helpful.

[1] Review Queue - http://wiki.dlang.org/Review_Queue
[2] std.experimental.logger Review Page - 
http://wiki.dlang.org/Review/std.logger#Voting_for_std.experimental
[3] Voting Process - http://wiki.dlang.org/Review/Process#Voting

Mike
Jun 13 2015
parent reply "Dicebot" <public dicebot.lv> writes:
It wasn't accepted at that point - review 3 has happened during 
which Andrei has reconsidered his std.experimental acceptance 
criteria and it got accepted with no additional voting.

The tricky part about being review manager is exactly that there 
are no strict rules. In the end it is all about ensuring Phobos 
quality and stability and sometimes arbitrary calls had to be 
made.

I personally consider replacing vibe.d native logger a crucial 
blocker for accepting std.experimental.logger into main namespace.
Jun 13 2015
next sibling parent reply "extrawurst" <stephan extrawurst.org> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 10:07:22 UTC, Dicebot wrote:


 I personally consider replacing vibe.d native logger a crucial 
 blocker for accepting std.experimental.logger into main 
 namespace.


that was my question, what keeps vibe.d from switching to 
std.exp.logger ?

-- Stephan
Jun 13 2015
parent "Dicebot" <public dicebot.lv> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 10:12:53 UTC, extrawurst wrote:

 On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 10:07:22 UTC, Dicebot wrote:


 I personally consider replacing vibe.d native logger a crucial 
 blocker for accepting std.experimental.logger into main 
 namespace.


 that was my question, what keeps vibe.d from switching to 
 std.exp.logger ?

 -- Stephan


No one has attempted to do that as per my knowledge
Jun 13 2015
prev sibling parent "Mike" <none none.com> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 10:07:22 UTC, Dicebot wrote:


 The tricky part about being review manager is exactly that 
 there are no strict rules. In the end it is all about ensuring 
 Phobos quality and stability and sometimes arbitrary calls had 
 to be made.


Well, I'll be forthcoming and say that I use Phobos very little, 
and have little stake in this.  I'm just a little frustrated with 
things not being followed through on and I want to do something 
about it.  I won't be able to vouch for the quality of the 
submission, but I can collect the data, facilitate the process, 
document it, and perform the legwork.

I also don't think two reviews/votes should take place at a time 
thinning out resources or causing reviewers to feel rushed.  I 
suggest the vote for std.logger take place after the 
review/voting of std.allocator.

Mike
Jun 13 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 6/12/15 5:58 AM, Robert burner Schadek wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. The idea
 was to mature stuff in experimental for one release and then have a vote
 on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a forum thread?


I'd say we hold off on this until we finalize reference counting. Right 
now std.logger requires GC. -- Andrei
Jun 13 2015
next sibling parent reply "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 15:43:58 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 6/12/15 5:58 AM, Robert burner Schadek wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. 
 The idea
 was to mature stuff in experimental for one release and then 
 have a vote
 on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a 
 forum thread?


 I'd say we hold off on this until we finalize reference 
 counting. Right now std.logger requires GC. -- Andrei


"proper" reference counting would be trivial to implement with a 
real macro system.
Jun 13 2015
next sibling parent "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 16:22:15 UTC, weaselcat wrote:

 "proper" reference counting would be trivial to implement with 
 a real macro system.


BTW, its been 8 years since the dconf macro talk ;)
http://s3.amazonaws.com/dconf2007/WalterAndrei.pdf
Jun 13 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent "Dennis Ritchie" <dennis.ritchie mail.ru> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 16:22:15 UTC, weaselcat wrote:

 "proper" reference counting would be trivial to implement with 
 a real macro system.


I have a suggestion. If so afraid of incorporating macros in D 
(macros can ruin almost any language, even very good), why not 
try to release a test build of DMD (Nightly DMD) with the 
macrosystem. And see what happens...
Jun 13 2015
prev sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 6/13/15 9:22 AM, weaselcat wrote:

 On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 15:43:58 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 6/12/15 5:58 AM, Robert burner Schadek wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. The idea
 was to mature stuff in experimental for one release and then have a vote
 on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a forum thread?


 I'd say we hold off on this until we finalize reference counting.
 Right now std.logger requires GC. -- Andrei


 "proper" reference counting would be trivial to implement with a real
 macro system.


The true Scotsman, eh :o). Well we don't have a real macro system. -- Andrei
Jun 13 2015
next sibling parent reply "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 17:33:06 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 6/13/15 9:22 AM, weaselcat wrote:

 On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 15:43:58 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 On 6/12/15 5:58 AM, Robert burner Schadek wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one 
 release. The idea
 was to mature stuff in experimental for one release and then 
 have a vote
 on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a 
 forum thread?


 I'd say we hold off on this until we finalize reference 
 counting.
 Right now std.logger requires GC. -- Andrei


 "proper" reference counting would be trivial to implement with 
 a real
 macro system.


 The true Scotsman, eh :o). Well we don't have a real macro 
 system. -- Andrei


Yes, and it's an obvious issue. Some of the most frequently 
requested things are real tuple syntax, pattern matching, etc. 
Short of getting these into D itself(good luck,) any attempt at 
these will end up being an ugly hack.
Jun 13 2015
parent reply "Dicebot" <public dicebot.lv> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 18:50:33 UTC, weaselcat wrote:

 Yes, and it's an obvious issue. Some of the most frequently 
 requested things are real tuple syntax, pattern matching, etc. 
 Short of getting these into D itself(good luck,) any attempt at 
 these will end up being an ugly hack.


This is neither obvious issue, not a good solution.

The fact that no one will implement custom pattern matching until 
it comes into language officially is a Good Thing (TM).
Jun 14 2015
next sibling parent reply "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 14 June 2015 at 08:52:26 UTC, Dicebot wrote:

 On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 18:50:33 UTC, weaselcat wrote:

 Yes, and it's an obvious issue. Some of the most frequently 
 requested things are real tuple syntax, pattern matching, etc. 
 Short of getting these into D itself(good luck,) any attempt 
 at these will end up being an ugly hack.


 This is neither obvious issue, not a good solution.

 The fact that no one will implement custom pattern matching 
 until it comes into language officially is a Good Thing (TM).


If you say so, nearly every reddit thread about D a top voted 
comment is about the lack of a real preprocessor/AST macros.
Jun 14 2015
next sibling parent reply ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org> writes:
On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 08:58:12 +0000, weaselcat wrote:


 On Sunday, 14 June 2015 at 08:52:26 UTC, Dicebot wrote:

 On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 18:50:33 UTC, weaselcat wrote:

 Yes, and it's an obvious issue. Some of the most frequently requested
 things are real tuple syntax, pattern matching, etc.
 Short of getting these into D itself(good luck,) any attempt at these
 will end up being an ugly hack.


 This is neither obvious issue, not a good solution.

 The fact that no one will implement custom pattern matching until it
 comes into language officially is a Good Thing (TM).


=20
 If you say so, nearly every reddit thread about D a top voted comment is
 about the lack of a real preprocessor/AST macros.


reddit herd are mostly monkeys which didn't even know D enough.=
Jun 14 2015
parent reply "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 14 June 2015 at 10:16:18 UTC, ketmar wrote:

 On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 08:58:12 +0000, weaselcat wrote:


 On Sunday, 14 June 2015 at 08:52:26 UTC, Dicebot wrote:

 On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 18:50:33 UTC, weaselcat wrote:

 Yes, and it's an obvious issue. Some of the most frequently 
 requested
 things are real tuple syntax, pattern matching, etc.
 Short of getting these into D itself(good luck,) any attempt 
 at these
 will end up being an ugly hack.


 This is neither obvious issue, not a good solution.

 The fact that no one will implement custom pattern matching 
 until it
 comes into language officially is a Good Thing (TM).


 
 If you say so, nearly every reddit thread about D a top voted 
 comment is
 about the lack of a real preprocessor/AST macros.


 reddit herd are mostly monkeys which didn't even know D enough.


avoid success at all costs
Jun 14 2015
parent ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org> writes:
On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 10:46:27 +0000, weaselcat wrote:


 On Sunday, 14 June 2015 at 10:16:18 UTC, ketmar wrote:

 On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 08:58:12 +0000, weaselcat wrote:


 On Sunday, 14 June 2015 at 08:52:26 UTC, Dicebot wrote:

 On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 18:50:33 UTC, weaselcat wrote:

 Yes, and it's an obvious issue. Some of the most frequently
 requested things are real tuple syntax, pattern matching, etc.
 Short of getting these into D itself(good luck,) any attempt at
 these will end up being an ugly hack.


 This is neither obvious issue, not a good solution.

 The fact that no one will implement custom pattern matching until it
 comes into language officially is a Good Thing (TM).


=20
 If you say so, nearly every reddit thread about D a top voted comment
 is about the lack of a real preprocessor/AST macros.


 reddit herd are mostly monkeys which didn't even know D enough.


=20
 avoid success at all costs


i honestly want reddit to be burnt. the only "good" thing i've seen from=20
that is "no, we don't follow #breakourcode, as some reddit retard that=20
doesn't even using D will complain about that!"=
Jun 14 2015
prev sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 6/14/15 1:58 AM, weaselcat wrote:

 On Sunday, 14 June 2015 at 08:52:26 UTC, Dicebot wrote:

 On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 18:50:33 UTC, weaselcat wrote:

 Yes, and it's an obvious issue. Some of the most frequently requested
 things are real tuple syntax, pattern matching, etc. Short of getting
 these into D itself(good luck,) any attempt at these will end up
 being an ugly hack.


 This is neither obvious issue, not a good solution.

 The fact that no one will implement custom pattern matching until it
 comes into language officially is a Good Thing (TM).


 If you say so, nearly every reddit thread about D a top voted comment is
 about the lack of a real preprocessor/AST macros.


No. It's about the GC and tooling. -- Andrei
Jun 14 2015
prev sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2015-06-14 10:52, Dicebot wrote:


 The fact that no one will implement custom pattern matching until it
 comes into language officially is a Good Thing (TM).


I had plans to try and implement pattern matching as a library 
component. Although, to do that properly I need better introspection for 
templates. There's an open merge request for template introspection 
that's waiting.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jun 14 2015
prev sibling parent "Marc =?UTF-8?B?U2Now7x0eiI=?= <schuetzm gmx.net> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 17:33:06 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 6/13/15 9:22 AM, weaselcat wrote:

 "proper" reference counting would be trivial to implement with 
 a real
 macro system.


 The true Scotsman, eh :o). Well we don't have a real macro 
 system. -- Andrei


At the risk of sounding like a broken record:

"Proper" reference counting would also be trivial to implement 
with a working scope implementation.
Jun 14 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent "Erik Smith" <erik cruiserhouse.com> writes:
I've started exploring the use of std.experimental.logger for my 
std.database work.  Presumably it would get in before 
std.database.

What does "finalize reference counting" mean? (discussion 
thread?)  Is it about RefCounted? I'm using that extensively.

erik
Jun 14 2015
prev sibling parent reply "Robert burner Schadek" <rburners gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 15:43:58 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I'd say we hold off on this until we finalize reference 
 counting. Right now std.logger requires GC. -- Andrei


for thread safety and performance we need to allocate strings. 
what happened to RCstring?
Jun 16 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 6/16/15 12:12 PM, Robert burner Schadek wrote:

 On Saturday, 13 June 2015 at 15:43:58 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I'd say we hold off on this until we finalize reference counting.
 Right now std.logger requires GC. -- Andrei


 for thread safety and performance we need to allocate strings. what
 happened to RCstring?


RCString is on my list. Right now I'm having an unbelievably good time 
with std.container. -- Andrei
Jun 16 2015
prev sibling parent reply "extrawurst" <stephan extrawurst.org> writes:
On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 12:58:46 UTC, Robert burner Schadek 
wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. 
 The idea was to mature stuff in experimental for one release 
 and then have a vote on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a 
 forum thread?


Could you please update the dub-package for the std.logger update 
to the current version ? as long as I have to support D<2067 for 
ldc/gdc I need to use the dub package of the logger and this is 
not api compatible to the one bundled with dmd2067..

-- Stephan
Jun 14 2015
parent "extrawurst" <stephan extrawurst.org> writes:
On Sunday, 14 June 2015 at 08:36:16 UTC, extrawurst wrote:

 On Friday, 12 June 2015 at 12:58:46 UTC, Robert burner Schadek 
 wrote:

 std.(experimental.)logger has been in phobos for one release. 
 The idea was to mature stuff in experimental for one release 
 and then have a vote on inclusion into phobos as std.logger.

 I would like to see this vote happen before 2.068.
 Unfortunately, Dicebot is not longer the review manager.

 Who wants to count yes/no/(my logger is better) votes in a 
 forum thread?


 Could you please update the dub-package for the std.logger 
 update to the current version ? as long as I have to support 
 D<2067 for ldc/gdc I need to use the dub package of the logger 
 and this is not api compatible to the one bundled with dmd2067..

 -- Stephan


Ok nevermind, the dub package does not support dmd<2067 either...
Jun 14 2015