• Alain De Vos (13/13) Nov 22 2021 What i don't like about dub is that is does not check which
• bauss (9/23) Nov 22 2021 Well, it's not always possible to check such things without heavy
• Tejas (5/16) Nov 23 2021 Doesn't dub cache stuff that it downloads? If, however, the user
• bauss (3/22) Nov 23 2021 Yes, dub caches everything it uses. Honestly I'd never want dub
• Imperatorn (3/17) Nov 23 2021 How do you propose dub would do that? Check in path? What if it
• Adam D Ruppe (2/3) Nov 23 2021 By asking the system package manager.
• Imperatorn (2/5) Nov 23 2021 Well yeah, but how without doing a lot of work
• =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs?= Ferreira (10/17) Nov 23 2021 If I iterpret system package manager as distribution-specific, relying
• Imperatorn (2/18) Nov 23 2021 Yeah, and also just on some platforms
• =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs?= Ferreira (8/28) Nov 23 2021 Ideally we should cover the platforms that have this mechanisms
• Steven Schveighoffer (17/29) Nov 23 2021 If I understand correctly, you have a library that is already installed
• =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs?= Ferreira (23/37) Nov 23 2021 I can totally understand your point on this. I think dub lacks a lot of

Alain De Vos <devosalain ymail.com> writes:

What i don't like about dub is that is does not check which 
software is installed on the host.
Currentlu tck86 is installed on the host including header files & 
shared libraries.
But dub says let me just download my own personal version and i 
will compile it in your home directory
/home/myuser/.dub
There is something inherently wrong in doing so.

Note other package managers of different languages do the same 
thing.
dub should really check if something should really be downloaded.
Otherwise you end up in a library hell, in Gates words known as 
dll hell.

bauss <jj_1337 live.dk> writes:

On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 01:19:44 UTC, Alain De Vos wrote:
 What i don't like about dub is that is does not check which 
 software is installed on the host.
 Currentlu tck86 is installed on the host including header files 
 & shared libraries.
 But dub says let me just download my own personal version and i 
 will compile it in your home directory
 /home/myuser/.dub
 There is something inherently wrong in doing so.

 Note other package managers of different languages do the same 
 thing.
 dub should really check if something should really be 
 downloaded.
 Otherwise you end up in a library hell, in Gates words known as 
 dll hell.

Well, it's not always possible to check such things without heavy 
performance cost. It can take a long time to verify whether 
something is already installed, as it could be unzipped in some 
obscure folder deep into many subfolders.

The solution here would probably be the ability to specify 
certain installations and their paths etc. within your project. 
It comes at almost no expense on running dub and the only real 
expense is users having to specify such installations.

Tejas <notrealemail gmail.com> writes:

On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 07:06:17 UTC, bauss wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 01:19:44 UTC, Alain De Vos 
 wrote:
 [...]

 Well, it's not always possible to check such things without 
 heavy performance cost. It can take a long time to verify 
 whether something is already installed, as it could be unzipped 
 in some obscure folder deep into many subfolders.

 The solution here would probably be the ability to specify 
 certain installations and their paths etc. within your project. 
 It comes at almost no expense on running dub and the only real 
 expense is users having to specify such installations.

Doesn't dub cache stuff that it downloads? If, however, the user 
is asking it to search the __entirety__ of their storage 
device(s) to check for some arbitrary folder where the package 
exists... Yeah that's a very though ask

bauss <jj_1337 live.dk> writes:

On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 10:19:29 UTC, Tejas wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 07:06:17 UTC, bauss wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 01:19:44 UTC, Alain De Vos 
 wrote:
 [...]

 Well, it's not always possible to check such things without 
 heavy performance cost. It can take a long time to verify 
 whether something is already installed, as it could be 
 unzipped in some obscure folder deep into many subfolders.

 The solution here would probably be the ability to specify 
 certain installations and their paths etc. within your 
 project. It comes at almost no expense on running dub and the 
 only real expense is users having to specify such 
 installations.

 Doesn't dub cache stuff that it downloads? If, however, the 
 user is asking it to search the __entirety__ of their storage 
 device(s) to check for some arbitrary folder where the package 
 exists... Yeah that's a very though ask

Yes, dub caches everything it uses. Honestly I'd never want dub 
to search my device for files that might exist that it might need.

Imperatorn <johan_forsberg_86 hotmail.com> writes:

On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 01:19:44 UTC, Alain De Vos wrote:
 What i don't like about dub is that is does not check which 
 software is installed on the host.
 Currentlu tck86 is installed on the host including header files 
 & shared libraries.
 But dub says let me just download my own personal version and i 
 will compile it in your home directory
 /home/myuser/.dub
 There is something inherently wrong in doing so.

 Note other package managers of different languages do the same 
 thing.
 dub should really check if something should really be 
 downloaded.
 Otherwise you end up in a library hell, in Gates words known as 
 dll hell.

How do you propose dub would do that? Check in path? What if it 
exists but is not exactly the same version? 🤔

Adam D Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:

On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 13:49:36 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:
 How do you propose dub would do that

By asking the system package manager.

Imperatorn <johan_forsberg_86 hotmail.com> writes:

On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 14:01:15 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 13:49:36 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:
 How do you propose dub would do that

 By asking the system package manager.

Well yeah, but how without doing a lot of work

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs?= Ferreira <contact lsferreira.net> writes:

On Tue, 2021-11-23 at 17:36 +0000, Imperatorn via Digitalmars-d-learn
wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 14:01:15 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 13:49:36 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:
 How do you propose dub would do that

=20
 By asking the system package manager.

=20
 Well yeah, but how without doing a lot of work

If I iterpret system package manager as distribution-specific, relying
on system package manager is not the way. There is tools like pkg-
config or pkgconf that provides mechanisms to manage dependencies and
its required configurations to link/compile the library with the
dependent software.

--=20
Sincerely,
Lu=C3=ADs Ferreira   lsferreira.net

Imperatorn <johan_forsberg_86 hotmail.com> writes:

On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 18:00:16 UTC, Luís Ferreira wrote:
 On Tue, 2021-11-23 at 17:36 +0000, Imperatorn via 
 Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 14:01:15 UTC, Adam D Ruppe 
 wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 13:49:36 UTC, Imperatorn 
 wrote:
 How do you propose dub would do that

 
 By asking the system package manager.

 
 Well yeah, but how without doing a lot of work

 If I iterpret system package manager as distribution-specific, 
 relying on system package manager is not the way. There is 
 tools like pkg- config or pkgconf that provides mechanisms to 
 manage dependencies and its required configurations to 
 link/compile the library with the dependent software.

Yeah, and also just on some platforms

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs?= Ferreira <contact lsferreira.net> writes:

On Tue, 2021-11-23 at 21:00 +0000, Imperatorn via Digitalmars-d-learn
wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 18:00:16 UTC, Lu=C3=ADs Ferreira wrote:
 On Tue, 2021-11-23 at 17:36 +0000, Imperatorn via=20
 Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 14:01:15 UTC, Adam D Ruppe=20
 wrote:
 On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 13:49:36 UTC, Imperatorn=20
 wrote:
 How do you propose dub would do that

=20
 By asking the system package manager.

=20
 Well yeah, but how without doing a lot of work

=20
 If I iterpret system package manager as distribution-specific,=20
 relying on system package manager is not the way. There is=20
 tools like pkg- config or pkgconf that provides mechanisms to=20
 manage dependencies and its required configurations to=20
 link/compile the library with the dependent software.

=20
 Yeah, and also just on some platforms

Ideally we should cover the platforms that have this mechanisms
standardized and also have something similar to e.g. Python packaging,
which have a list of paths like $PATH to look for packages in order.

--=20
Sincerely,
Lu=C3=ADs Ferreira   lsferreira.net

Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy gmail.com> writes:

On 11/22/21 8:19 PM, Alain De Vos wrote:
 What i don't like about dub is that is does not check which software is 
 installed on the host.
 Currentlu tck86 is installed on the host including header files & shared 
 libraries.
 But dub says let me just download my own personal version and i will 
 compile it in your home directory
 /home/myuser/.dub
 There is something inherently wrong in doing so.
 
 Note other package managers of different languages do the same thing.
 dub should really check if something should really be downloaded.
 Otherwise you end up in a library hell, in Gates words known as dll hell.

If I understand correctly, you have a library that is already installed 
on your system (is it tcl86? I couldn't find a tck86), and you want to 
use it's headers and library file? Yet, the dub package you are 
depending on is downloading its own copy?

1. Are the installed headers D headers? D can't currently reasonably use 
C headers. I don't know of D bindings that are installed by OS package 
managers.
2. Is the package maybe downloading a binary library to avoid having to 
ask users to install their own copy? This is something you need to bring 
up to the package developer, it's not a dub feature. Also, if there are 
differences between the C bindings of the version you have installed and 
the version the package is expecting, you are in for some trouble, so 
that may be a valid reason to include the binary.

Since this is a package issue, and not a dub issue, I'd recommend 
posting the package you are using, and maybe contact its author.

-Steve

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs?= Ferreira <contact lsferreira.net> writes:

On Tue, 2021-11-23 at 01:19 +0000, Alain De Vos via Digitalmars-d-learn
wrote:
 What i don't like about dub is that is does not check which=20
 software is installed on the host.
 Currentlu tck86 is installed on the host including header files &=20
 shared libraries.
 But dub says let me just download my own personal version and i=20
 will compile it in your home directory
 /home/myuser/.dub
 There is something inherently wrong in doing so.
=20
 Note other package managers of different languages do the same=20
 thing.
 dub should really check if something should really be downloaded.
 Otherwise you end up in a library hell, in Gates words known as=20
 dll hell.

I can totally understand your point on this. I think dub lacks a lot of
important features and behave wrongly in a lot of different ways:

1) it should search for dependencies instead of downloading and
compiling them.
2) it should have/use a standard user and system path or pkg-config to
check for dependencies
3) it should use XDG base directory paths to store cache, config and
data files.
4) if the user prefers to download and compile the dependencies, it
should provide a mechanism to isolate the environment
5) it should use a correct mechanism to do incremental compilation
instead of compiling everything in one compiler invocation by default
6) it should be able to install packages correctly with pkg-config or
other similar mechanisms, providing a correct way for the packagers to
manage dependencies externally

I have some strong opinions on this. These are some real problems of
dub that I see as a blocker. Doing packaging right is the cornerstone
of a growing and healthy ecosystem.

--=20
Sincerely,
Lu=C3=ADs Ferreira   lsferreira.net