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digitalmars.D.learn - is the runtime implemented in betterC?

reply dangbinghoo <dangbinghoo gmail.com> writes:
hi,

is the runtime d code implemented purely with betterC?

i was thinking that what's happening when we building ARM dlang 
compiler, when the dlang compiler ready in the first, there's no 
ARM version of the runtime lib and phobos, so, it's likely we are 
using bare metal D and trying to build the runtime.

is this true?


thanks!

---
binghoo
Nov 08 2019
next sibling parent Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 10:40:15 UTC, dangbinghoo wrote:

 is the runtime d code implemented purely with betterC?


It is actually implemented in regular D!


 i was thinking that what's happening when we building ARM dlang 
 compiler, when the dlang compiler ready in the first, there's 
 no ARM version of the runtime lib and phobos, so, it's likely 
 we are using bare metal D and trying to build the runtime.


There's ARM/Linux druntime builds... but the real question is the 
operating system because the druntime heavily relies on an 
underlying OS.
Nov 08 2019
prev sibling parent reply kinke <noone nowhere.com> writes:
On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 10:40:15 UTC, dangbinghoo wrote:

 hi,

 is the runtime d code implemented purely with betterC?

 i was thinking that what's happening when we building ARM dlang 
 compiler, when the dlang compiler ready in the first, there's 
 no ARM version of the runtime lib and phobos, so, it's likely 
 we are using bare metal D and trying to build the runtime.


druntime is not compiled as `-betterC`, because the entire point 
of `-betterC` is to prevent a dependency on druntime, at least at 
link-time [so C forward declarations and some templates can be 
used by code compiled as `-betterC`].

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve; you can easily 
cross-compile druntime & Phobos with LDC, see 
https://wiki.dlang.org/Building_LDC_runtime_libraries.
Nov 08 2019
parent reply dangbinghoo <dangbinghoo gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 13:52:18 UTC, kinke wrote:

 On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 10:40:15 UTC, dangbinghoo wrote:

 hi,


 I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve; you can easily 
 cross-compile druntime & Phobos with LDC, see 
 https://wiki.dlang.org/Building_LDC_runtime_libraries.


hmm, if runtime is implemented in regular D, how could the 
regular D code depends on regular D runtime be compiled when we 
doesn't have a D runtime even exists? thinking thant we just have 
xtensa-llvm, and building ldc for xtensa CPU,  the runtime will 
simply just not compiled.

it's an egg-chicken problem?


--
thanks!
Nov 08 2019
next sibling parent Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 15:25:40 UTC, dangbinghoo wrote:

 hmm, if runtime is implemented in regular D, how could the 
 regular D code depends on regular D runtime be compiled when we 
 doesn't have a D runtime even exists?


Think of a file like this:

// test.d
void foo() { }
void bar() { foo(); }

The code in that file depends on code in that file... but of 
course it works since it is all there.

The D runtime is similar. All it really is is a list of bunch of 
functions that might be called. If you define those functions in 
your build when you use them, it works as a unit.


But like I said in my other message, the hard part is sometimes 
cpu arch but most the coupling is to an existing operating 
system...
Nov 08 2019
prev sibling next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2019-11-08 16:25, dangbinghoo wrote:


 hmm, if runtime is implemented in regular D, how could the regular D 
 code depends on regular D runtime be compiled when we doesn't have a D 
 runtime even exists? thinking thant we just have xtensa-llvm, and 
 building ldc for xtensa CPU,  the runtime will simply just not compiled.
 
 it's an egg-chicken problem?


One needs to be a bit careful. For example, to not use the garbage 
collector before it's initialized.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Nov 09 2019
prev sibling parent reply kinke <noone nowhere.com> writes:
On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 15:25:40 UTC, dangbinghoo wrote:

 On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 13:52:18 UTC, kinke wrote:

 On Friday, 8 November 2019 at 10:40:15 UTC, dangbinghoo wrote:

 hi,


 I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve; you can easily 
 cross-compile druntime & Phobos with LDC, see 
 https://wiki.dlang.org/Building_LDC_runtime_libraries.


 hmm, if runtime is implemented in regular D, how could the 
 regular D code depends on regular D runtime be compiled when we 
 doesn't have a D runtime even exists? thinking thant we just 
 have xtensa-llvm, and building ldc for xtensa CPU,  the runtime 
 will simply just not compiled.

 it's an egg-chicken problem?


This is getting confusing. You definitely don't need a prebuilt 
druntime to build the static druntime library, the dependency is 
at link-time, and then druntime just depends on other parts of 
itself. No chicken-egg problem.

It's still not clear to me what you are actually trying to 
achieve. If you are working on an x64 machine, have built a 
special xtensa-LLVM and built an LDC linked against that LLVM, 
you can cross-compile to that CPU. You can use the mentioned 
ldc-build-runtime tool to try to cross-compile druntime and 
Phobos (and optionally the testrunners). Then it's all about 
fixing the resulting compile errors (and link errors for the 
testrunners); most of the adaptations are in druntime, but you'll 
also have to slightly adapt the compiler (at least adding a new 
predefined version for the new CPU architecture).

druntime depends on OS, architecture and coupled C runtime - what 
OS are you going to target?
Nov 09 2019
parent dangbinghoo <dangbinghoo gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 9 November 2019 at 22:46:16 UTC, kinke wrote:

 druntime depends on OS, architecture and coupled C runtime - 
 what OS are you going to target?


thank you all first! I just made a basic mistake and didn't 
realized that druntime is just libraries and onlymatter when 
linking the final executebals.

and for xtensa cpu, most used chip is the esp32 mcu, it only has 
support of freeRTOS, and implemented just few posix api for stdio 
and threads.

so, basically i can only use betterC set of normal D.

thanks!
Nov 09 2019