www.digitalmars.com         C & C++   DMDScript  

digitalmars.D.learn - What would be the advantage of using D to port some games?

reply matheus <matheus gmail.com> writes:
Hi, I currently use D for small CLI/Batch apps, before that I 
used to program in C.

Despite of using D I usually program like C but with the 
advantage of: GC, AA, CTFE and a few classes here and there.

As we can see there are a lot of old classic games source 
available like: DOOM, Duke Nukem 3D, Red Alert and most them 
written originally in C/C++.

What I'd like to know from the experts is: What would be the 
advantage of using D to port such games?

Thanks in advance,

Matheus.
Jun 24 2020
next sibling parent reply IGotD- <nise nise.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 18:53:34 UTC, matheus wrote:

 What I'd like to know from the experts is: What would be the 
 advantage of using D to port such games?


Can you elaborate your question a little bit more. Why would you 
want to port existing game code to another language to begin 
with? When you mention "advantage", advantage compared to what? 
Porting to another language at all, porting to another language 
other than D? In that case what other languages would you have in 
mind?
Jun 24 2020
parent reply matheus <matheus gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 19:14:48 UTC, IGotD- wrote:

 On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 18:53:34 UTC, matheus wrote:

 What I'd like to know from the experts is: What would be the 
 advantage of using D to port such games?


 Can you elaborate your question a little bit more. Why would 
 you want to port existing game code to another language to 
 begin with?


To see how the game could fit/run in D, like people are porting 
some of those games to Rust/Go and so on.


 When you mention "advantage", advantage compared to what?


To the original language the game was written. For example taking 
DOOM (Written in C), in D what would be the features that someone 
would use to port this game, like using CTFE to generate SIN/COS 
table would be reasonable?

I'm just looking for a roughly idea of this matter.

Matheus.
Jun 24 2020
parent reply IGotD- <nise nise.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 19:28:15 UTC, matheus wrote:

 To see how the game could fit/run in D, like people are porting 
 some of those games to Rust/Go and so on.


 When you mention "advantage", advantage compared to what?


 To the original language the game was written. For example 
 taking DOOM (Written in C), in D what would be the features 
 that someone would use to port this game, like using CTFE to 
 generate SIN/COS table would be reasonable?

 I'm just looking for a roughly idea of this matter.


A previous game implementation in D would be interesting and if 
you do it you are welcome to write your about experiences here. 
It's hard to say what features you would take advantage in D as I 
haven't seen the code in C/C++. However, one thing is clear D 
would be an easy port because it is so close to C/C++. Every 
algorithm can be ported directly without any bigger change. If it 
would Rust you would probably have to rethink some of the data 
structures and it would be more difficult. Another thing that is 
clear is that productivity would be high. With today's fast 
machines and old games you don't have to worry about any GC 
pauses as there is plenty of time for that. You can basically use 
the slow "scripting language" features of D. I would expect that
Jun 24 2020
parent reply matheus <matheus gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 19:46:55 UTC, IGotD- wrote:

 A previous game implementation in D would be interesting and if 
 you do it you are welcome to write your about experiences here. 
 It's hard to say what features you would take advantage in D as 
 I haven't seen the code in C/C++. However, one thing is clear D 
 would be an easy port because it is so close to C/C++. Every 
 algorithm can be ported directly without any bigger change. If 
 it would Rust you would probably have to rethink some of the 
 data structures and it would be more difficult. Another thing 
 that is clear is that productivity would be high. With today's 
 fast machines and old games you don't have to worry about any 
 GC pauses as there is plenty of time for that. You can 
 basically use the slow "scripting language" features of D. I 

 such task.


Thanks for the information. Yes I am thinking about doing it but 
at the same time I wonder if it's worth (technically speaking) 
port those games.

I'll analyze if there's any part that could take the advantage of 
some D features that lacks in C/C++.

Matheus.
Jun 24 2020
parent reply RegeleIONESCU <regeleionescu gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 21:14:35 UTC, matheus wrote:

 On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 19:46:55 UTC, IGotD- wrote:

 .




Hello!

I was wondering why some game related packages/libraries are not 
being developed anymore or are kind of paused. Fore example the 
last version of derelict-sdl2 is an alpha from May 2018. Lack of 
people to develop it, to take care of it or is kind of language 
focus shift?
Jul 20 2020
parent reply Laurent =?UTF-8?B?VHLDqWd1aWVy?= <laurent.treguier.sink gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 20 July 2020 at 19:49:52 UTC, RegeleIONESCU wrote:

 Hello!

 I was wondering why some game related packages/libraries are 
 not being developed anymore or are kind of paused. Fore example 
 the last version of derelict-sdl2 is an alpha from May 2018. 
 Lack of people to develop it, to take care of it or is kind of 
 language focus shift?


The derelict-* packages are being superseded by bindbc-* packages 
as far as I know, so bindbc-sdl is probably what you want now: 
https://code.dlang.org/packages/bindbc-sdl
Jul 20 2020
parent RegeleIONESCU <regeleionescu gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 20 July 2020 at 20:03:05 UTC, Laurent Tréguier wrote:

 On Monday, 20 July 2020 at 19:49:52 UTC, RegeleIONESCU wrote:

 Hello!

 I was wondering why some game related packages/libraries are 
 not being developed anymore or are kind of paused. Fore 
 example the last version of derelict-sdl2 is an alpha from May 
 2018. Lack of people to develop it, to take care of it or is 
 kind of language focus shift?


 The derelict-* packages are being superseded by bindbc-* 
 packages as far as I know, so bindbc-sdl is probably what you 
 want now: https://code.dlang.org/packages/bindbc-sdl


Thank you very much!
Jul 21 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent Johan <j j.nl> writes:
On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 18:53:34 UTC, matheus wrote:

 Hi, I currently use D for small CLI/Batch apps, before that I 
 used to program in C.

 Despite of using D I usually program like C but with the 
 advantage of: GC, AA, CTFE and a few classes here and there.

 As we can see there are a lot of old classic games source 
 available like: DOOM, Duke Nukem 3D, Red Alert and most them 
 written originally in C/C++.

 What I'd like to know from the experts is: What would be the 
 advantage of using D to port such games?


Rather than starting with the mindset of "advantage", I think it 
is much more valuable to treat it as an investigation of both 
disadvantages and advantages.

Things that come to mind:
- Try without GC: how hard is it to avoid the GC? Should be easy 
because you are porting from non-GC code, but maybe it isn't so 
natural. I would try to 'port' the code in a way that makes the 
code look like natural D code (instead of just looking like C 
code that was made to compile with a D compiler).
- Try with GC: what is the effect on the code and design? What is 
the effect on runtime behavior?
- Note that those games were written with specific avoidance of 
some C/C++ features and specific C/C++ style-guide and 
conventions. Can you try to "port" those 
avoidance/style/convention ideas? (i.e. What arguments were used 
to avoid those C/C++ features and what D features would have been 
avoided with similar arguments?)
- The original code is probably optimized in certain perf 
critical areas for the particular compiler used and common 
hardware at that time. How are you going to treat that aspect?
- Delegates are not a thing in C. So the design of the programs 
probably does not feature heavy use of delegates. But maybe the 
code does handroll some design concepts that are easier in newer 
languages: manual dynamic polymorphism? manual delegates? manual 
GC? preparser magic instead of templates? etc. Try to recognize 
that and change the core to use the new language features.

-Johan
Jul 21 2020
prev sibling parent JN <666total wp.pl> writes:
On Wednesday, 24 June 2020 at 18:53:34 UTC, matheus wrote:

 Hi, I currently use D for small CLI/Batch apps, before that I 
 used to program in C.

 Despite of using D I usually program like C but with the 
 advantage of: GC, AA, CTFE and a few classes here and there.

 As we can see there are a lot of old classic games source 
 available like: DOOM, Duke Nukem 3D, Red Alert and most them 
 written originally in C/C++.

 What I'd like to know from the experts is: What would be the 
 advantage of using D to port such games?

 Thanks in advance,

 Matheus.


The advantage is that you have a fun programming project and a 
challenge. And you don't have to worry about being stuck on the 
code or art side, because all those are ready for you, you just 
have to rewrite it in a different language.

Also, when finished, it makes for a fun blog post about 
challenges of porting C/C++ code to D and which parts were 
simplified using D features.

I was thinking of porting something like Doom to D also (DooD?), 
but never got around to it. I guess one could start with a 
betterC port too.
Jul 21 2020