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digitalmars.D.learn - Dart bindings for D?

reply "Laeeth Isharc" <laeeth-spammenot nospam.laeeth.com> writes:
Hi.

I have had a look around for these, but was not able to see them. 
  It looks perhaps like dart_api.h is the main file to convert - I 
will have a crack at starting this unless anyone knows of any 
already in existence.

Rationale for using Dart in combination with D is that I am not 
thrilled about learning or writing in Javascript, yet one has to 
do processing on the client in some language, and there seem very 
few viable alternatives for that.  It would be nice to run D from 
front to back, but at least Dart has C-like syntax and is 
reasonably well thought out.

Am I missing any existing bindings somewhere?

Thanks.


Laeeth.
Oct 29 2014
next sibling parent reply ketmar via Digitalmars-d-learn <digitalmars-d-learn puremagic.com> writes:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 22:12:30 +0000
Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d-learn
<digitalmars-d-learn puremagic.com> wrote:

it's OT, but haven't you tried Adam Ruppe's script.d? it has d-like
syntax with influences from javascript, written entirely in D, and has
simple interoperability with D code.

it's not lightning fast, though, but the code is understandable and
it's fairly easy to extend the language if necessary. maybe it will fit
to your tasks.

you can take it in ARSD repository: https://github.com/adamdruppe/arsd
what you need is jsvar.d and script.d, just two files and no external
libs required.
Oct 29 2014
parent reply "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 29 October 2014 at 22:22:39 UTC, ketmar via 
Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:

 it's not lightning fast, though, but the code is understandable 
 and it's fairly easy to extend the language if necessary.


Curious, what have you tried with it?

I wanted to keep it simple but actually complicated it more than 
I wanted to, it is cool to know it isn't hard to use.

What I really like though is that the var type works in D too, 
making interoperation so easy. My only disappointment is 
 property still doesn't work, making foo.bar()() need the double 
parens!


 you can take it in ARSD repository: 
 https://github.com/adamdruppe/arsd
 what you need is jsvar.d and script.d, just two files and no 
 external libs required.


Here's an example usage:


import arsd.script;

void main() {
         // this var holds the global variables of the script 
engine
         var globals = var.emptyObject;

         // you can set up values or functions with plain 
assignment in D
         globals.myFunction = (int a, int b) { return a + b; };

         import std.file;
         // run the interpret function passing script code and the 
variables
         interpret(readText("scriptcode.js"), globals);

         // you can then access script values or functions from D 
too
         import std.stdio;
         writeln(globals.foo()("adr"));

         // and also interpret strings here. The interpret function
         // returns the value of the last expression
         writeln(interpret("myFunction(12, 24);", globals));

}


Here's what my scriptcode.js looks like:

          // suppose the code there is:
          // the syntax is kinda like javascript and kinda like D
          // the concat operator is D style, but function decls 
are JS style
          function foo(name) { return "hello, " ~ name ~ " you are 
" ~ myFunction(12, 53) ~ " years old"; }
          // set a global variable too
          var myname = "adam";


kinda like a hybrid of D and JavaScript.
Oct 29 2014
parent reply ketmar via Digitalmars-d-learn <digitalmars-d-learn puremagic.com> writes:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 01:31:23 +0000
"Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d-learn"
<digitalmars-d-learn puremagic.com> wrote:


 On Wednesday, 29 October 2014 at 22:22:39 UTC, ketmar via=20
 Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:

 it's not lightning fast, though, but the code is understandable=20
 and it's fairly easy to extend the language if necessary.


=20
 Curious, what have you tried with it?


nothing really complicated for now. simply used it in some utilities
where i need something more than a config file. conditions, loops, some
data processing. it looks like a mixture of D and JS, and i like it.

it surely won't do as a scripting language for realtime videogame, but
i'm not writing videogames now. ;-) and it works ok for adding some
easily modifyable logic/processing to various software without
resorting to external libraries and wrappers like LuaD (which is great
too, by the way).


 I wanted to keep it simple but actually complicated it more than=20
 I wanted to, it is cool to know it isn't hard to use.


yes, it was very straightforward. besides, i like to write scripting
languages myself, so i enjoyed reading the source code too. but i did
that after i used the engine several times. ;-)

what it really needs is more documentation and samples, so people can
just throw it into the project and be happy. and to give some language
description to software users. i mostly using it by myseld, so didn't
bother to write any dox though. ;-)


 What I really like though is that the var type works in D too,=20
 making interoperation so easy. My only disappointment is=20
  property still doesn't work, making foo.bar()() need the double=20
 parens!


it was great, but in the end i removed opDispatch from var, 'cause it
confuses me. i'm not a fan of opDispatch anyway. ;-) but it was very
funny to show some people D code with your jsvar and listenting how
they don't want to learn just another scripting language. and then
compile the code with DMD to confuse them even more.
Oct 29 2014
parent "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 02:27:58 UTC, ketmar via 
Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:

 it was very funny to show some people D code with your jsvar
 and listenting how they don't want to learn just another
 scripting language. and then compile the code with DMD to
 confuse them even more.


hehe, that was the main idea!
Oct 31 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent Etienne Cimon <etcimon gmail.com> writes:
On 2014-10-29 18:12, Laeeth Isharc wrote:

 Rationale for using Dart in combination with D is that I am not thrilled
 about learning or writing in Javascript, yet one has to do processing on
 the client in some language, and there seem very few viable alternatives
 for that.  It would be nice to run D from front to back, but at least
 Dart has C-like syntax and is reasonably well thought out.


I actually thought this over in the past and posted my research here:
http://forum.dlang.org/thread/ll38cn$ojv$1 digitalmars.com

It would be awesome to write front-end tools in D. However, there won't 
be much browser support unless you're backed by Google or Microsoft.

What's going to replace javascript? Will it be typescript? asm.js? dart? 
PNaCl?

The solution is obviously to compile from D to the target language. But 
what's the real advantage? Re-using some back-end MVC libraries? All the 
communication is actually done through sockets, there's never any real 
interaction between the back-end/front-end.

Also, you realize the front-end stuff is so full of community 
contributions that you're actually shooting yourself in the foot if you 
divert away from the more popular language and methodologies.

So, I settle with javascript, and I shop for libraries instead of 
writing anything at all. There's so much diversity in the front-end 
world, a few hundred lines of code at most are going to be necessary for 
an original piece of work. Heh.
Oct 29 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 29 October 2014 at 22:12:32 UTC, Laeeth Isharc 
wrote:

 I will have a crack at starting this unless anyone knows of any 
 already in existence.


I haven't heard of any.


 Rationale for using Dart in combination with D is that I am not 
 thrilled about learning or writing in Javascript, yet one has 
 to do processing on the client in some language, and there seem 
 very few viable alternatives for that.


What kind of client are you doing? If you are writing a web page, 
you don't need any kind of script language API. JavaScript or 
dart or whatever talk with your server application through http 
requests or websockets, whereas script language APIs are meant 
for extending your application in the same process. For example, 
a text editor might have a script language to make custom 
functions for hotkeys.
Oct 29 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?= writes:
On Wednesday, 29 October 2014 at 22:12:32 UTC, Laeeth Isharc 
wrote:

 I have had a look around for these, but was not able to see 
 them.
  It looks perhaps like dart_api.h is the main file to convert - 
 I will have a crack at starting this unless anyone knows of any 
 already in existence.


Dart VM is available as a standalone, which can be set up to act 
as a web server. But you want to integrate it into D?


 Rationale for using Dart in combination with D is that I am not 
 thrilled about learning or writing in Javascript, yet one has 
 to do processing on the client in some language, and there seem 
 very few viable alternatives for that.


Javascript is easy, but compiling to Javascript from D with 
dart2js is also ok if you only want to support the latest 
browsers.

Dart makes most sense for internal web applications.


 It would be nice to run D from front to back, but at least Dart 
 has C-like syntax and is reasonably well thought out.

 Am I missing any existing bindings somewhere?


I don't think so, but integrating DartVM into D means you have to 
deal with two different garbage collectors or put a substantial 
amount of work into making D use the Dart collector.
Oct 29 2014
parent reply "Suliman" <evermind live.ru> writes:
Is it's possible to create single language that cover desktop and 
web? Like D+Dart?

I ask becouse I can't understand why it's need 2 language if they 
are very simmiler and it's can be 1 language instead 2.
Oct 29 2014
next sibling parent reply "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?= writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 06:14:18 UTC, Suliman wrote:

 Is it's possible to create single language that cover desktop 
 and web? Like D+Dart?


It is probably not possible with D or any other language that is 
too far off from Javascript since the generated code becomes to 
large for fast download. Even Dart has this problem.

It is in theory possible to use DartVM on the desktop using 
native bindings:
https://www.dartlang.org/articles/native-extensions-for-standalone-dart-vm/


 I ask becouse I can't understand why it's need 2 language if 
 they are very simmiler and it's can be 1 language instead 2.


There are several languages that do source2source compilation and 
that can compile both to C and javascript. The problem is to find 
good tools and libraries…

There are also scripting frameworks that let you write portable 
code for web and mobile platforms, but they tend to be geared 
towards a special type of application.

E.g.
http://www.tidesdk.org/
http://cordova.apache.org/
http://get.adobe.com/air/
Oct 29 2014
parent reply "Paolo Invernizzi" <paolo.invernizzi no.address> writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 06:57:23 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:

 There are also scripting frameworks that let you write portable 
 code for web and mobile platforms, but they tend to be geared 
 towards a special type of application.

 E.g.
 http://www.tidesdk.org/
 http://cordova.apache.org/
 http://get.adobe.com/air/


At work we are using Meteor [1] for everything related to the web 
products, and it's a VERY successful experience: easy to use, 
easy to deploy, incredible fast development timings.

Right now you can also target Android/iOS, so actually you can 
manage everything with just plain JS.

It turned to 1.0 release just yesterday, it's well funded I've 
bet it should be a long-runner framework.
Warmly suggested.

---
/Paolo

[1] http://www.meteor.com
Oct 30 2014
parent reply "Suliman" <evermind live.ru> writes:
I know that there is way to write all on JS. But I can't 
understand what the reason that there are no single language that 
can work on web and as native language.
Oct 30 2014
parent reply "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?= writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 08:39:15 UTC, Suliman wrote:

 I know that there is way to write all on JS. But I can't 
 understand what the reason that there are no single language 
 that can work on web and as native language.


It is possible, but you need to design the language within the 
constraints of javascript:

1. single threaded (or worker threads)

2. 53 bits integers, 26 bits for multiplies.

4. "weird" fixed size heaps (ArrayView)

5. if garbage collection then it has to be javascript style

6. no tricks: forget coroutines
Oct 30 2014
parent reply "Suliman" <evermind live.ru> writes:
 It is possible, but you need to design the language within the 
 constraints of javascript:

 1. single threaded (or worker threads)

 2. 53 bits integers, 26 bits for multiplies.

 4. "weird" fixed size heaps (ArrayView)

 5. if garbage collection then it has to be javascript style

 6. no tricks: forget coroutines


I can't understand why this restructions?  Could you explain them?
Oct 30 2014
parent reply "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?= writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 09:35:04 UTC, Suliman wrote:

 It is possible, but you need to design the language within the 
 constraints of javascript:

 1. single threaded (or worker threads)




Javascript is single threaded by nature. Parallel execution is 
done in isolation. No shared memory.


 2. 53 bits integers, 26 bits for multiplies.




Javascript only support double. Double has 53 bits precision. So 
without emulation javascript support:

53 bit division /
52 bit addition +, -
32 bit masking &, |
26 bit fast multiply *


 4. "weird" fixed size heaps (ArrayView)




You can allocate a fixed size byte array and put aligned typed 
views on it in modern browsers. This is used in asm.js


 5. if garbage collection then it has to be javascript style




You have no notion of a stack in javascript. You are therefore 
stuck with what javascript provides.


 6. no tricks: forget coroutines




You cannot implement your own coroutines without an emulation 
layer which will be heavy.


 I can't understand why this restructions?  Could you explain 
 them?


The restrictions come from what javascript can do efficiently 
(execution time, code size and memory use).
Oct 30 2014
parent reply "Suliman" <evermind live.ru> writes:
No! I mean not translation to js. I mean theoretical ability of 
creation new programming language that can work every where!
Oct 30 2014
next sibling parent reply "Kagamin" <spam here.lot> writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 10:18:40 UTC, Suliman wrote:

 No! I mean not translation to js. I mean theoretical ability of 
 creation new programming language that can work every where!


It's already created - C++! http://www.chromium.org/nativeclient
Oct 30 2014
parent "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?= writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 10:28:06 UTC, Kagamin wrote:

 On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 10:18:40 UTC, Suliman wrote:

 No! I mean not translation to js. I mean theoretical ability 
 of creation new programming language that can work every where!


 It's already created - C++! http://www.chromium.org/nativeclient


PNACL is using the Pepper API, which is kind of limited: you 
still need javascript for a HTML5 web app.

And PNACL is limited to Chrome and result in large binaries (and 
asm.js does too).
Oct 30 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?= writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 10:18:40 UTC, Suliman wrote:

 No! I mean not translation to js. I mean theoretical ability of 
 creation new programming language that can work every where!


Yes, you can create a new programming language that can work 
everywhere if you restrict the semantics to the least common 
denominator of platforms or take a speed/space penalty.

But the key to speed in browser apps is to leverage the browser 
engine or OpenGL,  and in the future OpenCL and worker threads. 
So… portability is limited unless you bundle the browser with the 
app.
Oct 30 2014
prev sibling parent "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 10:18:40 UTC, Suliman wrote:

 No! I mean not translation to js. I mean theoretical ability of 
 creation new programming language that can work every where!


The problem is getting new features into the browsers that people 
use.

You could also just write native programs and use the web as 
nothing more than a delivery system. You might have a harder time 
getting people to install it though.
Oct 30 2014
prev sibling parent "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 06:14:18 UTC, Suliman wrote:

 Is it's possible to create single language that cover desktop 
 and web? Like D+Dart?


You can also run D code on the web server and do very little on 
the web client itself for a lot of programs.
Oct 30 2014
prev sibling parent reply "Laeeth Isharc" <laeethnospam spammenot_laeeth.com> writes:
Hi.

Thanks for all the thoughts, and sorry it has taken me a little 
while to reply.

Adam - I liked your book very much: it really complemented the 
other resources out there, especially in communicating a 
refreshing spirit of enthusiasm and fearless exploration.

ketmar - I took a look at script.d very briefly.  I would love if 
I could use some kind of D-like and D-friendly scripting language 
on the client (Suliman has a point!), but my understanding is 
that I cannot if I want to use standard browsers without a plugin 
- Chrome, Firefox, etc.

BTW what was the story behind dscript?  It seems to have changed 
its name and no longer have so much connection to D:
http://forum.dlang.org/thread/422BE824.6030001 nospam.org

"It would be awesome to write front-end tools in D. However, 
there won't
be much browser support unless you're backed by Google or 
Microsoft."

Etienne - yes, indeed.  That is exactly the problem.  In theory 
your suggestion of compiling D to Javascript sounds intriguing, 
but I wonder if in practice it will be worth it on the client (I 
confess that you likely know much more about this than me).  Even 
if interoperability with the ecosystem is possible, I suppose it 
will be clunkier to write in D compiled to JS than in Dart 
because there are fewer people pouring energy into the project to 
make it easy.  I don't mind reimplementing some things on the 
back end in order to make it fast, beautiful, and efficient but I 
have no interest in re-writing anything in user interface domain. 
  (Others may be different).

As a second-best, but overall pretty appealing choice 
(superficially, since I haven't written anything substantial in 
it), Dart at least has a C-like syntax, seems to avoid most of 
the JS infelicities, and has some of the benefits of 
type-checking.  It hasn't taken off yet, but my guess is it will.

"What kind of client are you doing? If you are writing a web page,
you don't need any kind of script language API. JavaScript or
dart or whatever talk with your server application through http
requests or websockets, whereas script language APIs are meant
for extending your application in the same process. For example,
a text editor might have a script language to make custom
functions for hotkeys." - Adam Ruppe

Proprietary trading analytics and charting - still at an early 
stage so the design is not fully mapped out.  I understand that 
if I run D on server and Dart on client then I don't need to 
worry about APIs.  But 1) if I decide to run Dart on server and 
write my number-crunching analytics in D then I suppose I either 
need the Dart headers translated to D (API) or have the Dart web 
server talk to a D analytics server via a socket.  And 2) I 
cannot say that I definitely do not want to cache things and do 
some work on client, and so I need to see what's possible to 
avoid getting trapped in purely local optimum.  3) It's a long 
way from being relevant, but ultimately realtime data licensing 
occurs at local user level for Bloomberg etc, so much better to 
be able to tap in to a data source the user already has.

"Dart makes most sense for internal web applications."- Ola

Yes - exactly my situation.

"Dart VM is available as a standalone, which can be set up to act
as a web server. But you want to integrate it into D?" - Ola

There are already C headers, and it is simple to wrap any C 
function manually so you can call it from Dart.  Perhaps it would 
be possible to do something like PyD (I am still learning 
templates/CTFE so I don't know), but for now I was just thinking 
of converting the 3000 line odd (but mostly whitespace) header 
from .h to .d.  Most of it's easy, but I struggled a bit with 
syntax for using alias in D to declare function pointer return 
types and parameters  (I think I get it now).

Why bother?  D seems just perfect for the particular kind of 
quant financial work I want to do, but for the time being it is 
lacking on web server and client.  Vibe.d is great, but is not a 
complete framework from what I have seen (which is fine, since it 
doesn't pretend to be one, but makes it harder if you don't want 
to spend your time on this).  And we discussed the client above.  
So I need to have some way for Dart to talk to D.

"I don't think so, but integrating DartVM into D means you have to
deal with two different garbage collectors or put a substantial
amount of work into making D use the Dart collector."

Thanks for the warning.  I will have a low number of users, and 
whilst on occasion working data sets might be large, they won't 
stick around for very long so pre-allocating buffers should work 
fine (I hope).

Thanks once again to everyone for all the suggestions and 
observations.


Laeeth/

On Wednesday, 29 October 2014 at 22:12:32 UTC, Laeeth Isharc 
wrote:

 Hi.

 I have had a look around for these, but was not able to see 
 them.
  It looks perhaps like dart_api.h is the main file to convert - 
 I will have a crack at starting this unless anyone knows of any 
 already in existence.

 Rationale for using Dart in combination with D is that I am not 
 thrilled about learning or writing in Javascript, yet one has 
 to do processing on the client in some language, and there seem 
 very few viable alternatives for that.  It would be nice to run 
 D from front to back, but at least Dart has C-like syntax and 
 is reasonably well thought out.

 Am I missing any existing bindings somewhere?

 Thanks.


 Laeeth.
Oct 30 2014
next sibling parent reply ketmar via Digitalmars-d-learn <digitalmars-d-learn puremagic.com> writes:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:39:13 +0000
Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d-learn
<digitalmars-d-learn puremagic.com> wrote:


 BTW what was the story behind dscript?  It seems to have changed=20
 its name and no longer have so much connection to D:
 http://forum.dlang.org/thread/422BE824.6030001 nospam.org


we have rdmd now, which can be used in shebangs and allows to run D
programs as shell scrips. it is able to track dependencies and caching
compiled script, so 2nd and other invocations will be very fast.
Oct 30 2014
parent reply "Laeeth Isharc" <laeethnospam spammenot_laeeth.com> writes:
Ah - makes sense.  It is satisfyingly fast...

On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 21:33:59 UTC, ketmar via 
Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:

 On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:39:13 +0000
 Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d-learn
 <digitalmars-d-learn puremagic.com> wrote:


 BTW what was the story behind dscript?  It seems to have 
 changed its name and no longer have so much connection to D:
 http://forum.dlang.org/thread/422BE824.6030001 nospam.org


 we have rdmd now, which can be used in shebangs and allows to 
 run D
 programs as shell scrips. it is able to track dependencies and 
 caching
 compiled script, so 2nd and other invocations will be very fast.
Oct 30 2014
parent ketmar via Digitalmars-d-learn <digitalmars-d-learn puremagic.com> writes:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 22:18:22 +0000
Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d-learn
<digitalmars-d-learn puremagic.com> wrote:


 Ah - makes sense.  It is satisfyingly fast...


the only bad thing is that it trashes /tmp/.rdmd-$UID dir. i wrote
another simple script that is clearing that dir (but doesn't touch
'locked' dirs, as they are obviously in use) and put it in cron.

this may or may not be the issue for you.
Oct 30 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent Rikki Cattermole <alphaglosined gmail.com> writes:
On 31/10/2014 6:39 a.m., Laeeth Isharc wrote:

 Hi.

 Thanks for all the thoughts, and sorry it has taken me a little while to
 reply.

 Adam - I liked your book very much: it really complemented the other
 resources out there, especially in communicating a refreshing spirit of
 enthusiasm and fearless exploration.

 ketmar - I took a look at script.d very briefly.  I would love if I
 could use some kind of D-like and D-friendly scripting language on the
 client (Suliman has a point!), but my understanding is that I cannot if
 I want to use standard browsers without a plugin - Chrome, Firefox, etc.

 BTW what was the story behind dscript?  It seems to have changed its
 name and no longer have so much connection to D:
 http://forum.dlang.org/thread/422BE824.6030001 nospam.org

 "It would be awesome to write front-end tools in D. However, there won't
 be much browser support unless you're backed by Google or Microsoft."

 Etienne - yes, indeed.  That is exactly the problem.  In theory your
 suggestion of compiling D to Javascript sounds intriguing, but I wonder
 if in practice it will be worth it on the client (I confess that you
 likely know much more about this than me).  Even if interoperability
 with the ecosystem is possible, I suppose it will be clunkier to write
 in D compiled to JS than in Dart because there are fewer people pouring
 energy into the project to make it easy.  I don't mind reimplementing
 some things on the back end in order to make it fast, beautiful, and
 efficient but I have no interest in re-writing anything in user
 interface domain.  (Others may be different).

 As a second-best, but overall pretty appealing choice (superficially,
 since I haven't written anything substantial in it), Dart at least has a
 C-like syntax, seems to avoid most of the JS infelicities, and has some
 of the benefits of type-checking.  It hasn't taken off yet, but my guess
 is it will.

 "What kind of client are you doing? If you are writing a web page,
 you don't need any kind of script language API. JavaScript or
 dart or whatever talk with your server application through http
 requests or websockets, whereas script language APIs are meant
 for extending your application in the same process. For example,
 a text editor might have a script language to make custom
 functions for hotkeys." - Adam Ruppe

 Proprietary trading analytics and charting - still at an early stage so
 the design is not fully mapped out.  I understand that if I run D on
 server and Dart on client then I don't need to worry about APIs.  But 1)
 if I decide to run Dart on server and write my number-crunching
 analytics in D then I suppose I either need the Dart headers translated
 to D (API) or have the Dart web server talk to a D analytics server via
 a socket.  And 2) I cannot say that I definitely do not want to cache
 things and do some work on client, and so I need to see what's possible
 to avoid getting trapped in purely local optimum.  3) It's a long way
 from being relevant, but ultimately realtime data licensing occurs at
 local user level for Bloomberg etc, so much better to be able to tap in
 to a data source the user already has.

 "Dart makes most sense for internal web applications."- Ola

 Yes - exactly my situation.

 "Dart VM is available as a standalone, which can be set up to act
 as a web server. But you want to integrate it into D?" - Ola

 There are already C headers, and it is simple to wrap any C function
 manually so you can call it from Dart.  Perhaps it would be possible to
 do something like PyD (I am still learning templates/CTFE so I don't
 know), but for now I was just thinking of converting the 3000 line odd
 (but mostly whitespace) header from .h to .d.  Most of it's easy, but I
 struggled a bit with syntax for using alias in D to declare function
 pointer return types and parameters  (I think I get it now).

 Why bother?  D seems just perfect for the particular kind of quant
 financial work I want to do, but for the time being it is lacking on web
 server and client.  Vibe.d is great, but is not a complete framework
 from what I have seen (which is fine, since it doesn't pretend to be
 one, but makes it harder if you don't want to spend your time on this).
 And we discussed the client above. So I need to have some way for Dart
 to talk to D.


That's Cmsed, it can generate javascript (prototype currently but 
possible for jquery) ajax code for calling routes and CRUD for data models.
The next version is a bit off from having that support but it will have 
much better development.


 "I don't think so, but integrating DartVM into D means you have to
 deal with two different garbage collectors or put a substantial
 amount of work into making D use the Dart collector."

 Thanks for the warning.  I will have a low number of users, and whilst
 on occasion working data sets might be large, they won't stick around
 for very long so pre-allocating buffers should work fine (I hope).

 Thanks once again to everyone for all the suggestions and observations.


 Laeeth/

 On Wednesday, 29 October 2014 at 22:12:32 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote:

 Hi.

 I have had a look around for these, but was not able to see them.
  It looks perhaps like dart_api.h is the main file to convert - I will
 have a crack at starting this unless anyone knows of any already in
 existence.

 Rationale for using Dart in combination with D is that I am not
 thrilled about learning or writing in Javascript, yet one has to do
 processing on the client in some language, and there seem very few
 viable alternatives for that.  It would be nice to run D from front to
 back, but at least Dart has C-like syntax and is reasonably well
 thought out.

 Am I missing any existing bindings somewhere?

 Thanks.


 Laeeth.
Oct 30 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?= writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 17:39:14 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote:

 Thanks for the warning.  I will have a low number of users, and 
 whilst on occasion working data sets might be large, they won't 
 stick around for very long so pre-allocating buffers should 
 work fine (I hope).


Dart+DartVM+D/C/C++ sounds like a good option for you. I have not 
tried integration with DartVM, but it looks like Dart team is 
aiming for App Engine support and they need to compete with 
node.js. So, it looks like DartVM support is a priority for 
Google.
Oct 30 2014
prev sibling parent "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?= writes:
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 17:39:14 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote:

 Dart web server talk to a D analytics server via a socket.  And 
 2) I cannot say that I definitely do not want to cache things 
 and do some work on client, and so I need to see what's 
 possible to avoid getting trapped in purely local optimum.


One thing you should consider is that asm.js has this very cool 
ability to run eval() dynamically on the client and generate 
machinecode on the fly. You will probably get 30-50% of the D 
speed, but you will be getting OpenCL on the client in the future 
which will beat anything on the CPU…

Just sayin'. There's some cool JIT capabilities in browsers that 
can be used for optimized queries on data in combination with 
local storage (all modern web browsers support this). And it is 
only getting better…

(But dart is still a safe bet… you can call out to Javascript)
Oct 31 2014