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digitalmars.D - ip claims?

reply Jakob Praher <jp hapra.at> writes:
hi all,

I am interesting in adopting D for some kind of system programming. I
have used the LLVM infrastructure and would like to play with D.

What puzzles me is the following line in the url
"http://www.digitalmars.com/d/":

Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
D specs, they will explicitly identify any claims to intellectual
property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any posted or
emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.

What does that mean?
If I would like to work with the D language what would that mean to me 
as a developer?

thanks
-- Jakob
Mar 04 2007
next sibling parent =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jari-Matti_M=E4kel=E4?= <jmjmak utu.fi.invalid> writes:
Jakob Praher kirjoitti:

 hi all,
 
 I am interesting in adopting D for some kind of system programming. I
 have used the LLVM infrastructure and would like to play with D.


Welcome aboard.


 What puzzles me is the following line in the url
 "http://www.digitalmars.com/d/":
 
 Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
 D specs, they will explicitly identify any claims to intellectual
 property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any posted or
 emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.
 
 What does that mean?
 If I would like to work with the D language what would that mean to me
 as a developer?


It means that if you send something (e.g. code) to these newsgroups or
directly to DigitalMars / Walter, you should explicitly mention if those
pieces of work are protected by copyright, patents or other "IP stuff".
Mar 04 2007
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
Jakob Praher wrote:

 I am interesting in adopting D for some kind of system programming. I
 have used the LLVM infrastructure and would like to play with D.
 
 What puzzles me is the following line in the url
 "http://www.digitalmars.com/d/":
 
 Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
 D specs, they will explicitly identify any claims to intellectual
 property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any posted or
 emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.
 
 What does that mean?
 If I would like to work with the D language what would that mean to me 
 as a developer?


It means you must be upfront about any IP claims on ideas and code 
posted here or sent to Digital Mars. If you patented or will patent an 
idea submitted here, say so. If you wish to retain copyright, say so.
Mar 05 2007
parent reply Hasan Aljudy <hasan.aljudy gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Jakob Praher wrote:

 I am interesting in adopting D for some kind of system programming. I
 have used the LLVM infrastructure and would like to play with D.

 What puzzles me is the following line in the url
 "http://www.digitalmars.com/d/":

 Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
 D specs, they will explicitly identify any claims to intellectual
 property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any posted or
 emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.

 What does that mean?
 If I would like to work with the D language what would that mean to me 
 as a developer?


 
 It means you must be upfront about any IP claims on ideas and code 
 posted here or sent to Digital Mars. If you patented or will patent an 
 idea submitted here, say so. If you wish to retain copyright, say so.


err ... why couldn't the note on the website be a bit more clear?
Mar 05 2007
parent reply Kyle Furlong <kylefurlong gmail.com> writes:
Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 
 
 Walter Bright wrote:

 Jakob Praher wrote:

 I am interesting in adopting D for some kind of system programming. I
 have used the LLVM infrastructure and would like to play with D.

 What puzzles me is the following line in the url
 "http://www.digitalmars.com/d/":

 Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
 D specs, they will explicitly identify any claims to intellectual
 property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any posted or
 emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.

 What does that mean?
 If I would like to work with the D language what would that mean to 
 me as a developer?


 It means you must be upfront about any IP claims on ideas and code 
 posted here or sent to Digital Mars. If you patented or will patent an 
 idea submitted here, say so. If you wish to retain copyright, say so.


 
 err ... why couldn't the note on the website be a bit more clear?


It is syntactically correct, but it takes a while to parse, and the 
important clause is at the end. IMO, make it clear you are talking about 
code submitted to the NG or Digital Mars in the beginning of the statement.
Mar 05 2007
next sibling parent Jascha Wetzel <"[firstname]" mainia.de> writes:
it's not necessarily code. could be an algorithm or any other patentable
content.

Kyle Furlong wrote:

 Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Jakob Praher wrote:

 I am interesting in adopting D for some kind of system programming. I
 have used the LLVM infrastructure and would like to play with D.

 What puzzles me is the following line in the url
 "http://www.digitalmars.com/d/":

 Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
 D specs, they will explicitly identify any claims to intellectual
 property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any posted or
 emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.

 What does that mean?
 If I would like to work with the D language what would that mean to
 me as a developer?


 It means you must be upfront about any IP claims on ideas and code
 posted here or sent to Digital Mars. If you patented or will patent
 an idea submitted here, say so. If you wish to retain copyright, say so.


 err ... why couldn't the note on the website be a bit more clear?


 
 It is syntactically correct, but it takes a while to parse, and the
 important clause is at the end. IMO, make it clear you are talking about
 code submitted to the NG or Digital Mars in the beginning of the statement.
Mar 05 2007
prev sibling parent reply Hasan Aljudy <hasan.aljudy gmail.com> writes:
Kyle Furlong wrote:

 Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Jakob Praher wrote:

 I am interesting in adopting D for some kind of system programming. I
 have used the LLVM infrastructure and would like to play with D.

 What puzzles me is the following line in the url
 "http://www.digitalmars.com/d/":

 Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
 D specs, they will explicitly identify any claims to intellectual
 property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any posted or
 emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.

 What does that mean?
 If I would like to work with the D language what would that mean to 
 me as a developer?


 It means you must be upfront about any IP claims on ideas and code 
 posted here or sent to Digital Mars. If you patented or will patent 
 an idea submitted here, say so. If you wish to retain copyright, say so.


 err ... why couldn't the note on the website be a bit more clear?


 
 It is syntactically correct, but it takes a while to parse, and the 
 important clause is at the end. IMO, make it clear you are talking about 
 code submitted to the NG or Digital Mars in the beginning of the statement.


Well sure it's legally correct .. (or well, who knows, maybe not .. I'm 
not a lawyer), but that's exactly my point; why does it have to be hard 
to understand if it needs to be legally correct?
Mar 05 2007
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Well sure it's legally correct .. (or well, who knows, maybe not .. I'm 
 not a lawyer), but that's exactly my point; why does it have to be hard 
 to understand if it needs to be legally correct?


I'm not seeing what's hard to understand about it.
Mar 05 2007
next sibling parent reply Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:30:54 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:


 Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Well sure it's legally correct .. (or well, who knows, maybe not .. I'm 
 not a lawyer), but that's exactly my point; why does it have to be hard 
 to understand if it needs to be legally correct?


 
 I'm not seeing what's hard to understand about it.


"
Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
D specs, they will explicitly identify any claims to intellectual
property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any posted or
emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.
"

The word 'will' is ambiguous to my mind. It could be read as ...

"Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
D specs, they _thereby already_ explicitly identify any claims to
intellectual property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any
posted or emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.
"

But that doesn't make a lot of sense so it becomes a bit of a challenge to
understand your intent. However I think you mean more like ...

"
Note: all D users agree that, as a consequence of either downloading and
using D or reading the D specs, they must explicitly identify any claims to
intellectual property rights in anything posted or emailed to Digital Mars
by including a copyright or patent notice along with the item sent.
"

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
"Justice for David Hicks!"
skype: derek.j.parnell
Mar 05 2007
parent Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
Derek Parnell wrote:

 On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:30:54 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:
 

 Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Well sure it's legally correct .. (or well, who knows, maybe not .. I'm 
 not a lawyer), but that's exactly my point; why does it have to be hard 
 to understand if it needs to be legally correct?


 I'm not seeing what's hard to understand about it.


 
 "
 Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
 D specs, they will explicitly identify any claims to intellectual
 property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any posted or
 emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.
 "
 
 The word 'will' is ambiguous to my mind. It could be read as ...
 
 "Note: all D users agree that by downloading and using D, or reading the
 D specs, they _thereby already_ explicitly identify any claims to
 intellectual property rights with a copyright or patent notice in any
 posted or emailed feedback sent to Digital Mars.
 "
 
 But that doesn't make a lot of sense so it becomes a bit of a challenge to
 understand your intent. However I think you mean more like ...
 
 "
 Note: all D users agree that, as a consequence of either downloading and
 using D or reading the D specs, they must explicitly identify any claims to
 intellectual property rights in anything posted or emailed to Digital Mars
 by including a copyright or patent notice along with the item sent.
 "
 


I'd be tempted to drop a significant chunk of that and turn it into:

Anything posted or emailed to Digital Mars must explicitly identify any 
claims to intellectual property rights by including a copyright or 
patent notice along with the item sent.

But I suppose that there's some legal reason why some action must be 
taken prior to the requirements being enforceable or some such.

Later,
Brad
Mar 05 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Hasan Aljudy <hasan.aljudy gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Well sure it's legally correct .. (or well, who knows, maybe not .. 
 I'm not a lawyer), but that's exactly my point; why does it have to be 
 hard to understand if it needs to be legally correct?


 
 I'm not seeing what's hard to understand about it.


Maybe it's because I'm not a native English speaker .. but the phrase 
"identify any claims to intellectual property rights" never made any 
sense to me.
Mar 05 2007
parent Carlos Santander <csantander619 gmail.com> writes:
Hasan Aljudy escribió:

 
 
 Walter Bright wrote:

 Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Well sure it's legally correct .. (or well, who knows, maybe not .. 
 I'm not a lawyer), but that's exactly my point; why does it have to 
 be hard to understand if it needs to be legally correct?


 I'm not seeing what's hard to understand about it.


 
 Maybe it's because I'm not a native English speaker .. but the phrase 
 "identify any claims to intellectual property rights" never made any 
 sense to me.


Same here, so I'm glad someone explained that.

-- 
Carlos Santander Bernal
Mar 06 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Stephan Diehl <stephan.diehl gmx.net> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Well sure it's legally correct .. (or well, who knows, maybe not .. 
 I'm not a lawyer), but that's exactly my point; why does it have to be 
 hard to understand if it needs to be legally correct?


 
 I'm not seeing what's hard to understand about it.


I'm not a native english speaker as well and I didn't get it right as 
well. Over the weekend, I had asked some (non native speakers as well) 
people, if they had a look at D and they said that they didn't, because 
they thought, that the intention of this paragraph was exactly the 
oposite: that by using D one would be Walters slave forever :-)
After rereading it, I thought, it would mean that, whenever I thought 
that I would have a claim to any parts of D, I had to speak up 
immediatelly (and not wait until there is some money in it).
So, basicly, yes, somehow, the sentence is hard to understand (for a non 
native speaker)
Mar 06 2007
parent Hasan Aljudy <hasan.aljudy gmail.com> writes:
Stephan Diehl wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Well sure it's legally correct .. (or well, who knows, maybe not .. 
 I'm not a lawyer), but that's exactly my point; why does it have to 
 be hard to understand if it needs to be legally correct?


 I'm not seeing what's hard to understand about it.


 
 I'm not a native english speaker as well and I didn't get it right as 
 well. Over the weekend, I had asked some (non native speakers as well) 
 people, if they had a look at D and they said that they didn't, because 
 they thought, that the intention of this paragraph was exactly the 
 oposite: that by using D one would be Walters slave forever :-)
 After rereading it, I thought, it would mean that, whenever I thought 
 that I would have a claim to any parts of D, I had to speak up 
 immediatelly (and not wait until there is some money in it).
 So, basicly, yes, somehow, the sentence is hard to understand (for a non 
 native speaker)


My first impression when I read it was (besides confusion) that it means 
if I find anyone (falsely) claiming that he has intellectual rights over 
D, I must report him over!!
Mar 06 2007
prev sibling parent reply Jakob Praher <jp hapra.at> writes:
Walter Bright schrieb:

 Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Well sure it's legally correct .. (or well, who knows, maybe not .. 
 I'm not a lawyer), but that's exactly my point; why does it have to be 
 hard to understand if it needs to be legally correct?


 
 I'm not seeing what's hard to understand about it.


It is not as friendly as its semantics.
At least for non native speakers it could leed to false impressions.
I would also favor in transforming it into something more understandeable.

thanks
Jakob
Mar 06 2007
parent janderson <askme me.com> writes:
Jakob Praher wrote:

 Walter Bright schrieb:

 Hasan Aljudy wrote:

 Well sure it's legally correct .. (or well, who knows, maybe not .. 
 I'm not a lawyer), but that's exactly my point; why does it have to 
 be hard to understand if it needs to be legally correct?


 I'm not seeing what's hard to understand about it.


 
 It is not as friendly as its semantics.
 At least for non native speakers it could leed to false impressions.
 I would also favor in transforming it into something more understandeable.
 
 thanks
 Jakob


It would be nice if there was something like, it big letters:

Code and binary outputs produced from DMD (the d compiler) and linker 
are free to use for everyone however they see fit (individual users, 
students, universities and companies ect...).  This means no payment is 
required for use of DMD.  Both DMD source code and binary outputs may be 
sold or put under any license.

D wishes to proflirate earth and the planets beyond, let us know if any 
legal issues are holding you back. Email: legal Digitalmars.com

Something like that anyways.  We don't want people turned away simply 
because of legal mumbo.  (I am an English speaker, and that phase 
confused me for a little bit as well).

-Joel

PS

[OT] I just went to Chris Hecker's talk on "animating creatures you've 
never seen".  His talk was awesome!!! So was his apology :)  Spore may 
be the best game ever made (well second to star-trek online of course 
:0) )  Still I've gotta play it first when it finally comes out :)
Mar 09 2007