• Johan Engelen (10/10) Jan 14 2019 Hi all,
• Petar Kirov [ZombineDev] (7/16) Jan 14 2019 Yes, we really ought to define the terminology used better
• Jacob Carlborg (6/13) Jan 14 2019 Define "undefined" :). I like that.
• Petar Kirov [ZombineDev] (5/9) Jan 14 2019 There are other things besides abbreviations, but yeah a
• Petar Kirov [ZombineDev] (5/9) Jan 14 2019 I clearly can't see as both "Implementation Defined Behavior" and
• Jacob Carlborg (4/6) Jan 15 2019 UB mentions "illegal code construct", which doesn't seem to be defined.
• kdevel (6/12) Jan 20 2019 Undefined behavior is not about behavior at all. Its theme is
• Sebastian Wilzbach (4/19) Jan 15 2019 The glossary is isn't part of the spec and the spec is bundled as e.g.
• Johan Engelen (5/20) Jan 19 2019 OK, I'll try to add a page to the spec and populate it with (part
• Walter Bright (3/20) Jan 19 2019 Why create a new page? Seems like a better solution is to include the gl...
• Johan Engelen (11/36) Jan 20 2019 People can decide later on whether to remove the glossary page
• Walter Bright (4/10) Jan 20 2019 Whatever is done with the glossary page, there should be only one glossa...

Johan Engelen <j j.nl> writes:

Hi all,
   I'd like to have a terminology page for the spec.
At the moment, I am thinking about clearly describing terms like 
"implementation-defined behavior" and "undefined behavior", 
because there is so much confusion about it. I'm sure we'll run 
across more terms that need proper explanation (possibly 
referring to another location in the spec).

Do you agree?
If so, I'll work on adding it.

-Johan

Petar Kirov [ZombineDev] <petar.p.kirov gmail.com> writes:

On Monday, 14 January 2019 at 14:42:50 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote:
 Hi all,
   I'd like to have a terminology page for the spec.
 At the moment, I am thinking about clearly describing terms 
 like "implementation-defined behavior" and "undefined 
 behavior", because there is so much confusion about it. I'm 
 sure we'll run across more terms that need proper explanation 
 (possibly referring to another location in the spec).

It seems you're looking for this page: https://dlang.org/glossary.

 Do you agree?
 If so, I'll work on adding it.

Yes, we really ought to define the terminology used better 
throughout the spec. "Implementation/undefined behavior" are not 
defined there (or anywhere else) as far as I can see. I think 
someone with a good eye for precise semantics such as yourself 
can make significant progress w.r.t making the spec more robust.

Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:

On 2019-01-14 18:04, Petar Kirov [ZombineDev] wrote:

 It seems you're looking for this page: https://dlang.org/glossary.

That's mostly explaining abbreviations.

 Yes, we really ought to define the terminology used better throughout 
 the spec. "Implementation/undefined behavior" 

Define "undefined" :). I like that.

 are not defined there (or 
 anywhere else) as far as I can see. I think someone with a good eye for 
 precise semantics such as yourself can make significant progress w.r.t 
 making the spec more robust.

Yeah, I think we need this as well.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

Petar Kirov [ZombineDev] <petar.p.kirov gmail.com> writes:

On Monday, 14 January 2019 at 19:58:25 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 On 2019-01-14 18:04, Petar Kirov [ZombineDev] wrote:

 It seems you're looking for this page: 
 https://dlang.org/glossary.

 That's mostly explaining abbreviations.

There are other things besides abbreviations, but yeah a 
different page may be better suited for this. How about a chapter 
containing definitions similar to ch.1  "Foundations" from 
"Elements of Programming"?

Petar Kirov [ZombineDev] <petar.p.kirov gmail.com> writes:

On Monday, 14 January 2019 at 17:04:51 UTC, Petar Kirov 
[ZombineDev] wrote:
 [..]
 "Implementation/undefined behavior" are not defined there (or 
 anywhere else) as far as I can see.
 [..]

I clearly can't see as both "Implementation Defined Behavior" and 
"UB (Undefined Behavior)" are defined in 
https://dlang.org/glossary :facepalm:

Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:

On 2019-01-14 21:14, Petar Kirov [ZombineDev] wrote:

 I clearly can't see as both "Implementation Defined Behavior" and "UB 
 (Undefined Behavior)" are defined in https://dlang.org/glossary :facepalm:

UB mentions "illegal code construct", which doesn't seem to be defined.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

kdevel <kdevel vogtner.de> writes:

On Tuesday, 15 January 2019 at 09:13:20 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 On 2019-01-14 21:14, Petar Kirov [ZombineDev] wrote:

 I clearly can't see as both "Implementation Defined Behavior" 
 and "UB (Undefined Behavior)" are defined in 
 https://dlang.org/glossary :facepalm:

 UB mentions "illegal code construct", which doesn't seem to be 
 defined.

Undefined behavior is not about behavior at all. Its theme is 
meaning. Since meaning does not "happen", undefined behavior does 
not "happen" either. In this sense "undefined behavior" is a 
complete misnomer at least when used as if it refers to things 
located in the time domain.

Sebastian Wilzbach <seb wilzba.ch> writes:

On 2019-01-14 18:04, Petar via Dlang-internal wrote:
 On Monday, 14 January 2019 at 14:42:50 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote:
 Hi all,
   I'd like to have a terminology page for the spec.
 At the moment, I am thinking about clearly describing terms like 
 "implementation-defined behavior" and "undefined behavior", because 
 there is so much confusion about it. I'm sure we'll run across more 
 terms that need proper explanation (possibly referring to another 
 location in the spec).

 
 It seems you're looking for this page: https://dlang.org/glossary.

The glossary is isn't part of the spec and the spec is bundled as e.g. 
ebook and pdf for offline usage.

 Do you agree?
 If so, I'll work on adding it.

 
 Yes, we really ought to define the terminology used better throughout
 the spec.

Yes, that would be great :+1:

Johan Engelen <j j.nl> writes:

On Tuesday, 15 January 2019 at 11:25:03 UTC, Sebastian Wilzbach 
wrote:
 On 2019-01-14 18:04, Petar via Dlang-internal wrote:
 On Monday, 14 January 2019 at 14:42:50 UTC, Johan Engelen 
 wrote:
 Hi all,
   I'd like to have a terminology page for the spec.
 At the moment, I am thinking about clearly describing terms 
 like "implementation-defined behavior" and "undefined 
 behavior", because there is so much confusion about it. I'm 
 sure we'll run across more terms that need proper explanation 
 (possibly referring to another location in the spec).

 
 It seems you're looking for this page: 
 https://dlang.org/glossary.

 The glossary is isn't part of the spec and the spec is bundled 
 as e.g. ebook and pdf for offline usage.

OK, I'll try to add a page to the spec and populate it with (part 
of) that glossary page, thanks for the pointer.

-Johan

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/19/2019 7:54 AM, Johan Engelen wrote:
 On Tuesday, 15 January 2019 at 11:25:03 UTC, Sebastian Wilzbach wrote:
 On 2019-01-14 18:04, Petar via Dlang-internal wrote:
 On Monday, 14 January 2019 at 14:42:50 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote:
 Hi all,
   I'd like to have a terminology page for the spec.
 At the moment, I am thinking about clearly describing terms like 
 "implementation-defined behavior" and "undefined behavior", because there is 
 so much confusion about it. I'm sure we'll run across more terms that need 
 proper explanation (possibly referring to another location in the spec).

 It seems you're looking for this page: https://dlang.org/glossary.

 The glossary is isn't part of the spec and the spec is bundled as e.g. ebook 
 and pdf for offline usage.

 
 OK, I'll try to add a page to the spec and populate it with (part of) that 
 glossary page, thanks for the pointer.

Why create a new page? Seems like a better solution is to include the glossary 
with the spec.

Johan Engelen <j j.nl> writes:

On Saturday, 19 January 2019 at 21:08:00 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/19/2019 7:54 AM, Johan Engelen wrote:
 On Tuesday, 15 January 2019 at 11:25:03 UTC, Sebastian 
 Wilzbach wrote:
 On 2019-01-14 18:04, Petar via Dlang-internal wrote:
 On Monday, 14 January 2019 at 14:42:50 UTC, Johan Engelen 
 wrote:
 Hi all,
   I'd like to have a terminology page for the spec.
 At the moment, I am thinking about clearly describing terms 
 like "implementation-defined behavior" and "undefined 
 behavior", because there is so much confusion about it. I'm 
 sure we'll run across more terms that need proper 
 explanation (possibly referring to another location in the 
 spec).

 It seems you're looking for this page: 
 https://dlang.org/glossary.

 The glossary is isn't part of the spec and the spec is 
 bundled as e.g. ebook and pdf for offline usage.

 
 OK, I'll try to add a page to the spec and populate it with 
 (part of) that glossary page, thanks for the pointer.

 Why create a new page? Seems like a better solution is to 
 include the glossary with the spec.

People can decide later on whether to remove the glossary page 
from dlang.org.
The two pages have somewhat different goals: the page in the spec 
is going to be precise, whereas I guess the current glossary page 
is meant to help the casual reader of dlang.org. (the current 
glossary page is somewhat poor at the former)
But I actually find it pretty strange to have a glossary page in 
the location where it is now, so you have my vote to remove it 
there.

-Johan

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/20/2019 8:28 AM, Johan Engelen wrote:
 People can decide later on whether to remove the glossary page from dlang.org.
 The two pages have somewhat different goals: the page in the spec is going to
be 
 precise, whereas I guess the current glossary page is meant to help the casual 
 reader of dlang.org. (the current glossary page is somewhat poor at the former)
 But I actually find it pretty strange to have a glossary page in the location 
 where it is now, so you have my vote to remove it there.

Whatever is done with the glossary page, there should be only one glossary
page. 
I certainly don't want two - a precise one and a dumbed down one. Have one, and 
have that be the precise one.