digitalmars.D - goto [variable], and address of code labels
- Manu (38/38) Oct 28 2011 Hi people.
- Norbert Nemec (3/41) Oct 28 2011 Have you considered how this mechanism should handle crossing of scope
- ponce (6/6) Oct 28 2011 Provided some hairy conditions, the switch instruction will optimize to
- Dmitry Olshansky (18/24) Oct 28 2011 They do, you have no guaranties. It will either fly or crawl, depending
- Manu (24/45) Oct 28 2011 It does, sure, but that switch must then be wrapped in looping logic, wh...
- Dmitry Olshansky (19/48) Oct 29 2011 It doesn't save code - you replace unconditional jump to start of
- Manu (39/89) Oct 29 2011 True, it may appear there is more code, but the pipeline is far more
- Dmitry Olshansky (16/116) Oct 29 2011 Yes, I was just arguing that code size is *strictly speaking* larger.
- bearophile (4/12) Oct 28 2011 Yeah yeah yeah, in D we'll see that in ten years, maybe. In the meantime...
- Dmitry Olshansky (19/57) Oct 28 2011 Yes, mostly efficient VMs. Maybe for JIT, though it would depend on some...
- Manu (15/87) Oct 28 2011 Regarding your points about my example, I agree re the scope of my array...
- bcs (5/43) Oct 29 2011 For the given example, this could be re-cases via a switch statement
Hi people. I'd like to propose support for taking the address of code labels, and supporting variable goto statements. This is a feature I have found extremely useful, implemented as a GCC specific extension. I've used this to get great speedups and simplify code while writing emulators/vm's. Perhaps also useful in efficient state machine type code too... Simple example: void *opcodes[] = { &OP_ADDA, &OP_SUBA, &OP_MOVA, &OP_JMPA, &OP_etc... }; void exec() { // begin execution goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_ADDA: regs.A += pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_SUBA: regs.A -= pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_MOVA: regs.A = pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_JMPA: regs.PC = regs.A; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_etc: ... goto opcodes[ pProgram[PC++] ]; } Notice how this structure completely eliminates branch logic, control statements, etc. Note, GCC code labels are void*, but in D, perhaps some special code label pointer type should be invented for type safety... One may also expect that function pointers may also be implicitly cast to this generalised code pointer type, which might be useful in some code where a naked function pointer is used to implement some custom calling convention.
Oct 28 2011
Have you considered how this mechanism should handle crossing of scope boundaries? On 28.10.2011 18:30, Manu wrote:Hi people. I'd like to propose support for taking the address of code labels, and supporting variable goto statements. This is a feature I have found extremely useful, implemented as a GCC specific extension. I've used this to get great speedups and simplify code while writing emulators/vm's. Perhaps also useful in efficient state machine type code too... Simple example: void *opcodes[] = {&OP_ADDA,&OP_SUBA,&OP_MOVA,&OP_JMPA,&OP_etc... }; void exec() { // begin execution goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_ADDA: regs.A += pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_SUBA: regs.A -= pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_MOVA: regs.A = pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_JMPA: regs.PC = regs.A; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_etc: ... goto opcodes[ pProgram[PC++] ]; } Notice how this structure completely eliminates branch logic, control statements, etc. Note, GCC code labels are void*, but in D, perhaps some special code label pointer type should be invented for type safety... One may also expect that function pointers may also be implicitly cast to this generalised code pointer type, which might be useful in some code where a naked function pointer is used to implement some custom calling convention.
Oct 28 2011
Provided some hairy conditions, the switch instruction will optimize to a jump table in GCC and probably most C compilers. In ICC, some static analysis is even used to optimize out the test before the switch. In D, final switch might enable such an optimization with statically checking for out-of-enum values.
Oct 28 2011
On 28.10.2011 22:57, ponce wrote:Provided some hairy conditions, the switch instruction will optimize to a jump table in GCC and probably most C compilers.They do, you have no guaranties. It will either fly or crawl, depending on sparseness of values. Even so it *usually* makes table, just check on it from time to time ;).In ICC, some static analysis is even used to optimize out the test before the switch.But switch-jump alone is not enough to get efficient VM interpreter. The thing is this tiny bit at the end of every instruction code: .... goto opcodes[pProgram[regs.PC++]]; This is instruction dispatch, the trick in the branch prediction that operates on per branch basis, thus single switch-jump based VM dispatch will mispredict jumps most of the time. I seen claims of up to 99% on average. If you place a whole switch at the end of every instruction code I'm not sure compiler will find it's way out of this mess, or even optimize it. I tried that with DMD, the problem is it have no idea how to use the *same* jump *table* for all of identical switches.In D, final switch might enable such an optimization with statically checking for out-of-enum values.-- Dmitry Olshansky
Oct 28 2011
On 28 October 2011 22:30, Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> wrote:On 28.10.2011 22:57, ponce wrote:It does, sure, but that switch must then be wrapped in looping logic, which adds extra code and branching to the loop. In ICC, some static analysis is even used to optimize out the testProvided some hairy conditions, the switch instruction will optimize to a jump table in GCC and probably most C compilers.They do, you have no guaranties. It will either fly or crawl, depending on sparseness of values. Even so it *usually* makes table, just check on it from time to time ;).I don't quite follow what you mean here... so forgive me if I'm way off, or if you're actually agreeing with me :) Yes, this piece of code is effectively identical to the switch that may fall at the top of an execute loop (assuming the switch compiles a jump table), but there are some subtle differences... As said before, there's no outer loop, which saves some code and a branch, but more importantly, on architectures that have branch target registers, the compiler can schedule the load to the branch target earlier (while the rest of the 'opcode' is being executed), which will give the processor more time to preload the instruction stream from the branch destination, which will reduce the impact of the branch misprediction. I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the branch prediction, but this isn't a 'branch' (nor is a switch that produces a jump table), it's a jump, and it will never predict since it doesn't have a binary target. Many architectures attempt to alleviate this sort of unknown target penalty by introducing a branch target register, which once loaded, will immediately start fetching opcodes from the target.. the key for the processor is to load the target address into that register as early as possible to hide the instruction fetch latency. Code written in the style I illustrate will give the best possible outcome to that end.before the switch. But switch-jump alone is not enough to get efficient VM interpreter.The thing is this tiny bit at the end of every instruction code: .... goto opcodes[pProgram[regs.PC++]]; This is instruction dispatch, the trick in the branch prediction that operates on per branch basis, thus single switch-jump based VM dispatch will mispredict jumps most of the time. I seen claims of up to 99% on average. If you place a whole switch at the end of every instruction code I'm not sure compiler will find it's way out of this mess, or even optimize it. I tried that with DMD, the problem is it have no idea how to use the *same* jump *table* for all of identical switches.
Oct 28 2011
On 29.10.2011 3:15, Manu wrote:This is instruction dispatch, the trick in the branch prediction that operates on per branch basis, thus single switch-jump based VM dispatch will mispredict jumps most of the time. I seen claims of up to 99% on average. If you place a whole switch at the end of every instruction code I'm not sure compiler will find it's way out of this mess, or even optimize it. I tried that with DMD, the problem is it have no idea how to use the *same* jump *table* for all of identical switches. I don't quite follow what you mean here... so forgive me if I'm way off, or if you're actually agreeing with me :) Yes, this piece of code is effectively identical to the switch that may fall at the top of an execute loop (assuming the switch compiles a jump table), but there are some subtle differences... As said before, there's no outer loop, which saves some code and a branch,It doesn't save code - you replace unconditional jump to start of switch, with an extra load from table + indirect jump per VM opcode. but more importantly, on architectures that have branch targetregisters, the compiler can schedule the load to the branch target earlier (while the rest of the 'opcode' is being executed), which will give the processor more time to preload the instruction stream from the branch destination, which will reduce the impact of the branch misprediction.I was thinking x86 here, but there are other processors that do not have branch target register. And depending on the pipeline length prediction it should be done earlier then loading of destination address.I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the branch prediction, but this isn't a 'branch' (nor is a switch that produces a jump table), it's a jump, and it will never predict since it doesn't have a binary target.I'm not sure about terminology, but branch === jump, and both can be conditional. By switch-jump I mean tabulated indirect jump, that is target is loaded from table. It's an indirect jump and as such can go wherever it wants to. And yes it's still predicted, mostly on basis of "it will go to the same address as last time". Actually, branch benediction mechanisms I heard of don't know if some jump is conditional at all (that would complicate it), the end result is just a block of "branch/jump at address X is predicted to go to address Y".Many architectures attempt to alleviate this sort of unknown target penalty by introducing a branch target register, which once loaded, will immediately start fetching opcodes from the target.. the key for the processor is to load the target address into that register as early as possible to hide the instruction fetch latency. Code written in the style I illustrate will give the best possible outcome to that end.Nice to know, which ones by the way? -- Dmitry Olshansky
Oct 29 2011
On 29 October 2011 10:55, Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> wrote:On 29.10.2011 3:15, Manu wrote:True, it may appear there is more code, but the pipeline is far more overlapped, it can load the jump target earlier, also there is still less work whichever way you slice it.This is instruction dispatch, the trick in the branch prediction that operates on per branch basis, thus single switch-jump based VM dispatch will mispredict jumps most of the time. I seen claims of up to 99% on average. If you place a whole switch at the end of every instruction code I'm not sure compiler will find it's way out of this mess, or even optimize it. I tried that with DMD, the problem is it have no idea how to use the *same* jump *table* for all of identical switches. I don't quite follow what you mean here... so forgive me if I'm way off, or if you're actually agreeing with me :) Yes, this piece of code is effectively identical to the switch that may fall at the top of an execute loop (assuming the switch compiles a jump table), but there are some subtle differences... As said before, there's no outer loop, which saves some code and a branch,It doesn't save code - you replace unconditional jump to start of switch, with an extra load from table + indirect jump per VM opcode.but more importantly, on architectures that have branch targetI'm not sure what you mean here about pipeline length prediction... but with respect to x86, and other performance orientated architectures, I don't see how this could disadvantage the processor in any way. While an out-of-order processor like x86 may be able to look ahead, resolve an unconditional jump back to the top of a switch, and begin resolving the next target ahead of time, having the dispatch inline just means there is no unconditional jump, a couple less instructions to process. I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the branch prediction, butregisters, the compiler can schedule the load to the branch target earlier (while the rest of the 'opcode' is being executed), which will give the processor more time to preload the instruction stream from the branch destination, which will reduce the impact of the branch misprediction.I was thinking x86 here, but there are other processors that do not have branch target register. And depending on the pipeline length prediction it should be done earlier then loading of destination address.I would say branch != jump; a branch is conditional (I think the term 'branch' implies conditionality), and is a candidate for prediction. Branch opcodes are more often than not to absolute targets too. A jump is unconditional, the branch prediction hardware has no effect on jump opcodes, and naturally it may be an absolute jump (performs more or less like a noop), or an indirect one, which is the worst case. cpu's will typically try and optimise this by prefetching the code at the earliest moment it can know the target. The mechanics of which are quite different for out-of-order processors, and architectures like PPC, which have a specific register indirect jump targets. An x86 or some other OoO processor may look ahead far enough to find the target in advance, but I'm not sure about that. Simplier architectures will not be able to do that (intel atom/ppc/arm/mips). Many architectures attempt to alleviate this sort of unknown targetthis isn't a 'branch' (nor is a switch that produces a jump table), it's a jump, and it will never predict since it doesn't have a binary target.I'm not sure about terminology, but branch === jump, and both can be conditional. By switch-jump I mean tabulated indirect jump, that is target is loaded from table. It's an indirect jump and as such can go wherever it wants to. And yes it's still predicted, mostly on basis of "it will go to the same address as last time". Actually, branch benediction mechanisms I heard of don't know if some jump is conditional at all (that would complicate it), the end result is just a block of "branch/jump at address X is predicted to go to address Y".PowerPC being the most important one (only one that's relevant these days), ie, all games consoles. But also some popular microcontrollers. But I'm fairly sure most popular architectures will do the same thing where the jump target comes from a general register (ARM). The sooner the target is known, the better. I don't see any real disadvantage to this syntax. It's optional, has no side effects, and allows you to express something that can't be expressed any other way. I imagined it would be easy to implement, and it's definitely useful in certain circumstances, a handy tool to have, particularly when working on embedded platforms where compiler backends/optimisers are always weak and immature, and these sorts of performance considerations are more important (ie, games consoles, microcontrollers).penalty by introducing a branch target register, which once loaded, will immediately start fetching opcodes from the target.. the key for the processor is to load the target address into that register as early as possible to hide the instruction fetch latency. Code written in the style I illustrate will give the best possible outcome to that end.Nice to know, which ones by the way?
Oct 29 2011
On 29.10.2011 15:16, Manu wrote:On 29 October 2011 10:55, Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com <mailto:dmitry.olsh gmail.com>> wrote: On 29.10.2011 3:15, Manu wrote: This is instruction dispatch, the trick in the branch prediction that operates on per branch basis, thus single switch-jump based VM dispatch will mispredict jumps most of the time. I seen claims of up to 99% on average. If you place a whole switch at the end of every instruction code I'm not sure compiler will find it's way out of this mess, or even optimize it. I tried that with DMD, the problem is it have no idea how to use the *same* jump *table* for all of identical switches. I don't quite follow what you mean here... so forgive me if I'm way off, or if you're actually agreeing with me :) Yes, this piece of code is effectively identical to the switch that may fall at the top of an execute loop (assuming the switch compiles a jump table), but there are some subtle differences... As said before, there's no outer loop, which saves some code and a branch, It doesn't save code - you replace unconditional jump to start of switch, with an extra load from table + indirect jump per VM opcode. True, it may appear there is more code, but the pipeline is far more overlapped, it can load the jump target earlier, also there is still less work whichever way you slice it.Yes, I was just arguing that code size is *strictly speaking* larger. Yet it's faster, but saving on extra uncoditional jump is not the only reason.but more importantly, on architectures that have branch target registers, the compiler can schedule the load to the branch target earlier (while the rest of the 'opcode' is being executed), which will give the processor more time to preload the instruction stream from the branch destination, which will reduce the impact of the branch misprediction. I was thinking x86 here, but there are other processors that do not have branch target register. And depending on the pipeline length prediction it should be done earlier then loading of destination address. I'm not sure what you mean here about pipeline length prediction...Ouch. It should have been: depending on the pipeline length, prediction should have started earlier then loading destination address. butwith respect to x86, and other performance orientated architectures, I don't see how this could disadvantage the processor in any way. While an out-of-order processor like x86 may be able to look ahead, resolve an unconditional jump back to the top of a switch, and begin resolving the next target ahead of time, having the dispatch inline just means there is no unconditional jump, a couple less instructions to process.No objections here, it is faster.I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the branch prediction, but this isn't a 'branch' (nor is a switch that produces a jump table), it's a jump, and it will never predict since it doesn't have a binary target. I'm not sure about terminology, but branch === jump, and both can be conditional. By switch-jump I mean tabulated indirect jump, that is target is loaded from table. It's an indirect jump and as such can go wherever it wants to. And yes it's still predicted, mostly on basis of "it will go to the same address as last time". Actually, branch benediction mechanisms I heard of don't know if some jump is conditional at all (that would complicate it), the end result is just a block of "branch/jump at address X is predicted to go to address Y". I would say branch != jump; a branch is conditional (I think the term 'branch' implies conditionality), and is a candidate for prediction. Branch opcodes are more often than not to absolute targets too. A jump is unconditional, the branch prediction hardware has no effect on jump opcodes, and naturally it may be an absolute jump (performs more or less like a noop), or an indirect one, which is the worst case.Indirect jumps are still being predicted, that's what I've been arguing. Anyway, it's a well known stuff called threaded code, and I'm sure there are better sources then my mumbling about optimizing it: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/lvas/sem06w/revucky.pdf cpu's willtypically try and optimise this by prefetching the code at the earliest moment it can know the target. The mechanics of which are quite different for out-of-order processors, and architectures like PPC, which have a specific register indirect jump targets. An x86 or some other OoO processor may look ahead far enough to find the target in advance, but I'm not sure about that. Simplier architectures will not be able to do that (intel atom/ppc/arm/mips). Many architectures attempt to alleviate this sort of unknown target penalty by introducing a branch target register, which once loaded, will immediately start fetching opcodes from the target.. the key for the processor is to load the target address into that register as early as possible to hide the instruction fetch latency. Code written in the style I illustrate will give the best possible outcome to that end. Nice to know, which ones by the way? PowerPC being the most important one (only one that's relevant these days), ie, all games consoles. But also some popular microcontrollers. But I'm fairly sure most popular architectures will do the same thing where the jump target comes from a general register (ARM). The sooner the target is known, the better. I don't see any real disadvantage to this syntax. It's optional, has no side effects, and allows you to express something that can't be expressed any other way. I imagined it would be easy to implement, and it's definitely useful in certain circumstances, a handy tool to have, particularly when working on embedded platforms where compiler backends/optimisers are always weak and immature, and these sorts of performance considerations are more important (ie, games consoles, microcontrollers).-- Dmitry Olshansky
Oct 29 2011
ponce:Provided some hairy conditions, the switch instruction will optimize to a jump table in GCC and probably most C compilers. In ICC, some static analysis is even used to optimize out the test before the switch. In D, final switch might enable such an optimization with statically checking for out-of-enum values.Yeah yeah yeah, in D we'll see that in ten years, maybe. In the meantime give me good computed gotos. Bye, bearophile
Oct 28 2011
On 28.10.2011 20:30, Manu wrote:Hi people. I'd like to propose support for taking the address of code labels, and supporting variable goto statements. This is a feature I have found extremely useful, implemented as a GCC specific extension. I've used this to get great speedups and simplify code while writing emulators/vm's. Perhaps also useful in efficient state machine type code too...Yes, mostly efficient VMs. Maybe for JIT, though it would depend on some hacks. But custom made state machines usually do fixed jumps anyway.Simple example: void *opcodes[] = { &OP_ADDA, &OP_SUBA, &OP_MOVA, &OP_JMPA, &OP_etc... };I gather this should be somewhere inside exec, or it will be *extremely* unsafe.void exec() {i.e. : enum opcodes[] = { ... };// begin execution goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_ADDA: regs.A += pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_SUBA: regs.A -= pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_MOVA: regs.A = pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_JMPA: regs.PC = regs.A; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_etc: ... goto opcodes[ pProgram[PC++] ]; } Notice how this structure completely eliminates branch logic, control statements, etc.Yes, but you'd still have to check correctness, maybe before executing the whole VM program.Note, GCC code labels are void*, but in D, perhaps some special code label pointer type should be invented for type safety...Or just call them void function(void), there are cases where jumping to function is OK. It's some pretty low-level stuff, that most people do in assembly though.One may also expect that function pointers may also be implicitly cast to this generalised code pointer type, which might be useful in some code where a naked function pointer is used to implement some custom calling convention.Overall, I'd personally welcome this kind of extension, but it's should be doable in inline asm even today, which somewhat diminishes it's impact. The advantage of computed gotos compared to asm is portability, the disadvantage is complicating backend for a special case. -- Dmitry Olshansky
Oct 28 2011
On 28 October 2011 22:16, Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> wrote:On 28.10.2011 20:30, Manu wrote:Regarding your points about my example, I agree re the scope of my array, it was just a 2 second example. I would expect a D implementation to be more strict (probably with regard to scope/etc), and typesafe as I suggested. And you nailed it, probably is do-able in asm (although I can't think of a way to produce an array of code addresses?), but this syntax is portable. How would it complicate the backend an awful lot? The ability to goto to a variable? I would have though this would be quite trivial. It should surely be just about as easy to take a variable rather than an immediate target...? The ability to assign the address of a code label to a const variable can't be any more difficult than assigning it as the constant target of a goto? Anyway, I don't know the details of implementation, but it seemed simple to me in theory :) Just thought I'd throw it out there.. I'd find this useful, as I have in the past on numerous occasions.Hi people. I'd like to propose support for taking the address of code labels, and supporting variable goto statements. This is a feature I have found extremely useful, implemented as a GCC specific extension. I've used this to get great speedups and simplify code while writing emulators/vm's. Perhaps also useful in efficient state machine type code too...Yes, mostly efficient VMs. Maybe for JIT, though it would depend on some hacks. But custom made state machines usually do fixed jumps anyway.Simple example: void *opcodes[] = { &OP_ADDA, &OP_SUBA, &OP_MOVA, &OP_JMPA, &OP_etc... };I gather this should be somewhere inside exec, or it will be *extremely* unsafe. void exec(){i.e. : enum opcodes[] = { ... }; // begin executiongoto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_ADDA: regs.A += pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_SUBA: regs.A -= pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_MOVA: regs.A = pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_JMPA: regs.PC = regs.A; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_etc: ... goto opcodes[ pProgram[PC++] ]; } Notice how this structure completely eliminates branch logic, control statements, etc.Yes, but you'd still have to check correctness, maybe before executing the whole VM program.Note, GCC code labels are void*, but in D, perhaps some special code label pointer type should be invented for type safety...Or just call them void function(void), there are cases where jumping to function is OK. It's some pretty low-level stuff, that most people do in assembly though. One may also expect that function pointers may also be implicitly castto this generalised code pointer type, which might be useful in some code where a naked function pointer is used to implement some custom calling convention.Overall, I'd personally welcome this kind of extension, but it's should be doable in inline asm even today, which somewhat diminishes it's impact. The advantage of computed gotos compared to asm is portability, the disadvantage is complicating backend for a special case.
Oct 28 2011
On 10/28/2011 09:30 AM, Manu wrote:Hi people. I'd like to propose support for taking the address of code labels, and supporting variable goto statements. This is a feature I have found extremely useful, implemented as a GCC specific extension. I've used this to get great speedups and simplify code while writing emulators/vm's. Perhaps also useful in efficient state machine type code too... Simple example: void *opcodes[] = { &OP_ADDA, &OP_SUBA, &OP_MOVA, &OP_JMPA, &OP_etc... }; void exec() { // begin execution goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_ADDA: regs.A += pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_SUBA: regs.A -= pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ ]; OP_MOVA: regs.A = pProgram[regs.PC++]; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_JMPA: regs.PC = regs.A; goto opcodes[ pProgram[regs.PC++] ]; OP_etc: ... goto opcodes[ pProgram[PC++] ]; } Notice how this structure completely eliminates branch logic, control statements, etc. Note, GCC code labels are void*, but in D, perhaps some special code label pointer type should be invented for type safety... One may also expect that function pointers may also be implicitly cast to this generalised code pointer type, which might be useful in some code where a naked function pointer is used to implement some custom calling convention.For the given example, this could be re-cases via a switch statement that ends each case with a "goto case pProgram[regs.PC++];". That is assuming non-const expression are allowed as the expression. The end result should be identical.
Oct 29 2011