digitalmars.D - d-programming-language.com
- Manu (15/15) Dec 10 2011 Okay, so is this the official documentation for the language?
- Trass3r (5/7) Dec 10 2011 You mean .org
- Manu (11/19) Dec 10 2011 As I invest myself further into the language I'll definitely get+read th...
- Walter Bright (8/20) Dec 10 2011 http://www.d-programming-language.org/migrate-to-shared.html
- Chad J (5/10) Dec 10 2011 Interesting, but doesn't work for me:
- Chad J (10/22) Dec 10 2011 Almost forgot to mention:
- Walter Bright (3/18) Dec 10 2011 I think dman didn't get updated properly on that platform. It does work ...
- Mirko Pilger (3/5) Dec 10 2011 obviously i'm missing something here. within the downloaded archives for...
- Mirko Pilger (1/2) Dec 10 2011 v2.055 to v2.057b
- Walter Bright (2/7) Dec 10 2011 Oops!
- Manu (10/40) Dec 10 2011 Cheers for the links! Might be a good idea to take a few minutes and eit...
- Mirko Pilger (1/2) Dec 10 2011 +1
- Andrej Mitrovic (1/1) Dec 10 2011 Create a .chm with this: http://thecybershadow.net/d/docs/
- Manu (7/8) Dec 10 2011 Wow, see, that's exactly what I'm talking about! :) .. (although I tried
- Walter Bright (2/7) Dec 10 2011 I didn't think anyone preferred chm over web pages anymore!
- Jonathan M Davis (3/12) Dec 10 2011 I've never even _heard_ of chm, but then again, I'm mostly a Linux progr...
- Mirko Pilger (2/3) Dec 10 2011 personally i prefer chm > pdf > web for technical documentations and
- Walter Bright (2/5) Dec 10 2011 We've got an ebook now for the D spec, and hope to get one done for Phob...
- Peter Alexander (3/14) Dec 10 2011 I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for
- Walter Bright (2/4) Dec 10 2011 Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem t...
- Jonathan M Davis (7/13) Dec 10 2011 True, but I think that most Windows users expect to be using a compiler ...
- Manu (2/9) Dec 11 2011 Because VisualD is actually pretty good.
- Peter Alexander (4/10) Dec 11 2011 Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-)
- Manu (8/22) Dec 11 2011 Hilite a keyword or function, press F1, and the documentation appears
- Hans Uhlig (5/16) Dec 12 2011 That's because cmd sucks. MS Powershell isn't much better. I have to use...
- Manu (3/28) Dec 12 2011 And they did a great job. Visual Studio is a fantastically productive
- Jonathan M Davis (3/30) Dec 12 2011 Having a great GUI and a great shell are not mutually exclusive.
- Jacob Carlborg (4/34) Dec 12 2011 Mac OS X is the perfect example of that.
- Andrei Alexandrescu (3/33) Dec 12 2011 Look at the Mac...
- Manu (3/49) Dec 12 2011 Have you actually tried to use XCode professionally? ... ;)
- Peter Alexander (7/27) Dec 13 2011 I agree that cmd sucks.
- Manu (31/43) Dec 10 2011 Definitely the standard where I'm from (10 years in the video games
- Walter Bright (2/4) Dec 10 2011 I agree with you.
- Andrej Mitrovic (6/7) Dec 10 2011 It is for me. All I have to do to get to some documentation of a
- Walter Bright (2/4) Dec 10 2011 dman has suffered a bit from lack of TLC. But that can be fixed.
- Somedude (4/16) Dec 11 2011 Mostly Java programmer here.
- Vladimir Panteleev (2/4) Dec 10 2011 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5470
- Walter Bright (5/8) Dec 10 2011 Awesome, I had overlooked that. Can you do a pull request to put
- Walter Bright (3/12) Dec 10 2011 Essentially, I'd like to have the .chm files automatically built by the ...
- Adam D. Ruppe (6/8) Dec 10 2011 I'm curious: what kind of setup do you have there?
- Walter Bright (2/10) Dec 10 2011 It just statically serves html. No cgi.
- Adam D. Ruppe (7/8) Dec 10 2011 See my reply to Andrei - the program modifies the static
- Andrei Alexandrescu (4/12) Dec 10 2011 Anything automated rox.
- Adam D. Ruppe (29/30) Dec 10 2011 cool. I updated the program today to handle the new site. Take a
- Adam D. Ruppe (13/13) Dec 10 2011 Also, I was just wondering how it'd work on a page like std.container
- Jonathan M Davis (7/8) Dec 10 2011 Overall, I like what I see here, but I definitely that that ddoc itself ...
- Adam D. Ruppe (23/26) Dec 10 2011 I agree to an extent, but at the same time, I like keeping ddoc itself f...
- Hans Uhlig (5/31) Dec 12 2011 Actually it might be nice instead of ddoc creating HTML if it created an...
- Adam D. Ruppe (6/10) Dec 12 2011 The macro system lets you do that pretty well already
- Andrei Alexandrescu (19/24) Dec 10 2011 [snip]
- Adam D. Ruppe (18/23) Dec 11 2011 OK.
- Jacob Carlborg (5/25) Dec 12 2011 I think this is the wrong approach and I think ddoc should generate
- Jacob Carlborg (4/34) Dec 12 2011 Wouldn't it be better if ddoc generate the correct HTML from the beginni...
- Adam D. Ruppe (16/18) Dec 12 2011 I touched upon this in another post... I say both yes and no.
- Vladimir Panteleev (5/21) Dec 11 2011 I began work on this and ported chmgen to D2. However, chmgen was
- Walter Bright (2/5) Dec 11 2011 Do you mean it works on the html files rather than the dd files?
- Vladimir Panteleev (4/12) Dec 11 2011 Yes, that's correct. It parses the HTML files with a few regular
- Walter Bright (3/12) Dec 11 2011 Then add it to the makefile as depending on the html files, rather than ...
- Vladimir Panteleev (6/27) Dec 11 2011 Yes, that was what I was going to do. However, the layout of
- Walter Bright (2/6) Dec 11 2011 You could add a parameter to chmgen to tell it where the files are.
- Vladimir Panteleev (6/16) Dec 12 2011 Certainly, but that goes against the idea of a chm makefile
- Walter Bright (3/6) Dec 12 2011 I do appreciate the effort you're putting into this. I think chmgen will...
- Vladimir Panteleev (3/11) Dec 13 2011 Thanks. Here it is:
- Mirko Pilger (1/2) Dec 13 2011 looking forward to try this out. thanks for your work.
- Vladimir Panteleev (3/5) Dec 13 2011 Here is the compiled file from current docs:
Okay, so is this the official documentation for the language? Is there somewhere else I should be looking? I ask because literally 50% if things I've looked up in the last 2 days are undocumented. Many of them have some heading reserved, with no content. Here are some examples: immutable Attribute__gshared Attributeshared Attributeinout Attribute These would appear to be rather important keywords... I'd like to know what they do :) I currently have this error, and no idea what it's hassling me about, but I'm suspecting I need to put 'shared' somewhere, though I don't really know how it works... C:\Program Files (x86)\D\dmd2\windows\bin\..\..\src\phobos\std\concurrency.d(329): Error: static assert "Aliases to mutable thread-local data not allowed."
Dec 10 2011
Am 10.12.2011, 18:21 Uhr, schrieb Manu <turkeyman gmail.com>:Okay, so is this the official documentation for the language? Is there somewhere else I should be looking?You mean .org Yes this is the official documentation and yes it is lacking in some areas. You may also get Andrei's book "The D programming language", that's a pretty comprehensive overview.
Dec 10 2011
On 10 December 2011 20:08, Trass3r <un known.com> wrote:Am 10.12.2011, 18:21 Uhr, schrieb Manu <turkeyman gmail.com>: Okay, so is this the official documentation for the language?As I invest myself further into the language I'll definitely get+read the book (not so much free time sadly). But I'd like to think a language that claims to be a simplification of C++ should be at least familiar, and where it differs, extremely intuitive. For the time being I'm just trying to write some small programs and gauge my experience, which are fairly mixed at this point, but I remain optimistic. Mostly documentation failure so far (even if the documentation were thorough, I really hate the layout/presentation, though that hasn't scared me off), and a couple of very unintuitive constructs which I may or may not get used to :)Is there somewhere else I should be looking?You mean .org Yes this is the official documentation and yes it is lacking in some areas. You may also get Andrei's book "The D programming language", that's a pretty comprehensive overview.
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 9:21 AM, Manu wrote:Okay, so is this the official documentation for the language? Is there somewhere else I should be looking? I ask because literally 50% if things I've looked up in the last 2 days are undocumented. Many of them have some heading reserved, with no content. Here are some examples: immutable Attributehttp://www.d-programming-language.org/const3.html__gshared Attributehttp://www.d-programming-language.org/migrate-to-shared.htmlshared Attributehttp://www.d-programming-language.org/migrate-to-shared.htmlinout Attributehttp://www.d-programming-language.org/function.html#inout-functionsThese would appear to be rather important keywords... I'd like to know what they do :)Yup. In general, you can find the documentation on a particular keyword by typing in: dman keyword
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 02:28 PM, Walter Bright wrote:Yup. In general, you can find the documentation on a particular keyword by typing in: dman keywordInteresting, but doesn't work for me: chad Hugin ~ $ dman auto x-www-browser: No such file or directory chad Hugin ~ $
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 03:50 PM, Chad J wrote:On 12/10/2011 02:28 PM, Walter Bright wrote:Almost forgot to mention: This is on 64-bit Gentoo Linux. chad Hugin ~ $ dmd DMD64 D Compiler v2.056 Copyright (c) 1999-2011 by Digital Mars written by Walter Bright Documentation: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/index.html Usage: dmd files.d ... { -switch } ..etc...Yup. In general, you can find the documentation on a particular keyword by typing in: dman keywordInteresting, but doesn't work for me: chad Hugin ~ $ dman auto x-www-browser: No such file or directory chad Hugin ~ $
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 12:52 PM, Chad J wrote:On 12/10/2011 03:50 PM, Chad J wrote:I think dman didn't get updated properly on that platform. It does work properly on Windows.On 12/10/2011 02:28 PM, Walter Bright wrote:Almost forgot to mention: This is on 64-bit Gentoo Linux.Yup. In general, you can find the documentation on a particular keyword by typing in: dman keywordInteresting, but doesn't work for me: chad Hugin ~ $ dman auto x-www-browser: No such file or directory chad Hugin ~ $
Dec 10 2011
I think dman didn't get updated properly on that platform. It does work properly on Windows.obviously i'm missing something here. within the downloaded archives for v2.055 to v2.056 i can only find binaries of dman for freebsd, linux and osx but not for windows. :/
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 1:48 PM, Mirko Pilger wrote:Oops!I think dman didn't get updated properly on that platform. It does work properly on Windows.obviously i'm missing something here. within the downloaded archives for v2.055 to v2.056 i can only find binaries of dman for freebsd, linux and osx but not for windows. :/
Dec 10 2011
On 10 December 2011 21:28, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:On 12/10/2011 9:21 AM, Manu wrote:Cheers for the links! Might be a good idea to take a few minutes and either cut and paste some text, or paste a link to these articles in the empty descriptions I referred to... These would appear to be rather important keywords... I'd like to know whatOkay, so is this the official documentation for the language? Is there somewhere else I should be looking? I ask because literally 50% if things I've looked up in the last 2 days are undocumented. Many of them have some heading reserved, with no content. Here are some examples: immutable Attributehttp://www.d-programming-**language.org/const3.html<http://www.d-programming-language.org/const3.html> __gshared Attributehttp://www.d-programming-**language.org/migrate-to-**shared.html<http://www.d-programming-language.org/migrate-to-shared.html> shared Attributehttp://www.d-programming-**language.org/migrate-to-**shared.html<http://www.d-programming-language.org/migrate-to-shared.html> inout AttributeCool cheers, noted, although to be completely honest, I'm a windows user, and I will never type this. There should be a .chm in the distribution, which is the standard expected by any windows developer from any sdk they intend to take seriously. This is very easy to produce from the existing webpage, although indexing it might take some investment.they do :)Yup. In general, you can find the documentation on a particular keyword by typing in: dman keyword
Dec 10 2011
There should be a .chm in the distribution+1
Dec 10 2011
Create a .chm with this: http://thecybershadow.net/d/docs/
Dec 10 2011
On 11 December 2011 02:04, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com>wrote:Create a .chm with this: http://thecybershadow.net/d/docs/Wow, see, that's exactly what I'm talking about! :) .. (although I tried downloading that chm and it doesn't work...) There's an amazing amount of work and energy spent here, but there's a lot of examples of taking it 95%, and the distribution isn't quite there. How hard would it be to put that in the distro (if it worked), and include a link to the manual in the windows start menu beside the uninstaller...
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 3:45 PM, Manu wrote:Cool cheers, noted, although to be completely honest, I'm a windows user, and I will never type this. There should be a .chm in the distribution, which is the standard expected by any windows developer from any sdk they intend to take seriously. This is very easy to produce from the existing webpage, although indexing it might take some investment.I didn't think anyone preferred chm over web pages anymore!
Dec 10 2011
On Saturday, December 10, 2011 16:00:15 Walter Bright wrote:On 12/10/2011 3:45 PM, Manu wrote:I've never even _heard_ of chm, but then again, I'm mostly a Linux programmer. - Jonathan M DavisCool cheers, noted, although to be completely honest, I'm a windows user, and I will never type this. There should be a .chm in the distribution, which is the standard expected by any windows developer from any sdk they intend to take seriously. This is very easy to produce from the existing webpage, although indexing it might take some investment.I didn't think anyone preferred chm over web pages anymore!
Dec 10 2011
I didn't think anyone preferred chm over web pages anymore!personally i prefer chm > pdf > web for technical documentations and ebooks on the desktop.
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 4:10 PM, Mirko Pilger wrote:We've got an ebook now for the D spec, and hope to get one done for Phobos.I didn't think anyone preferred chm over web pages anymore!personally i prefer chm > pdf > web for technical documentations and ebooks on the desktop.
Dec 10 2011
On 11/12/11 12:00 AM, Walter Bright wrote:On 12/10/2011 3:45 PM, Manu wrote:I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Cool cheers, noted, although to be completely honest, I'm a windows user, and I will never type this. There should be a .chm in the distribution, which is the standard expected by any windows developer from any sdk they intend to take seriously. This is very easy to produce from the existing webpage, although indexing it might take some investment.I didn't think anyone preferred chm over web pages anymore!
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 10 2011
On Saturday, December 10, 2011 17:52:18 Walter Bright wrote:On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:True, but I think that most Windows users expect to be using a compiler inside of an IDE, at which point, they aren't using the command line anyway. Many of them probably think that having to use dmd from the command line is a usability problem. I expect that they can avoid it with stuff iike VisualD though. - Jonathan M DavisI think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 10 2011
On 11 December 2011 03:52, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Because VisualD is actually pretty good.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 11 2011
On 11/12/11 1:52 AM, Walter Bright wrote:On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-) Windows people are used to Visual Studio doing everything for them. Hit F7 to compile, F5 to run under debugger, click on lines to set breakpoints.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 11 2011
On 11 December 2011 23:26, Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com>wrote:On 11/12/11 1:52 AM, Walter Bright wrote:Hilite a keyword or function, press F1, and the documentation appears instantly... ;) The moment a chm appears in the distro, there'll be a bug in VisualD to make F1 work. (Side note: I still seriously think you should consider collaborating with VisualD and including it in the windows distribution directly. Put an option in the installer, hook up the installation paths during installation)On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-) Windows people are used to Visual Studio doing everything for them. Hit F7 to compile, F5 to run under debugger, click on lines to set breakpoints.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 11 2011
On 12/11/2011 1:26 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:On 11/12/11 1:52 AM, Walter Bright wrote:That's because cmd sucks. MS Powershell isn't much better. I have to use mintty just to be able to have a sane environment. Linux is a very shell oriented OS still even with Kde and Gnome. Microsoft did everything in its power to kill off the shell for "useability" reasons.On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-) Windows people are used to Visual Studio doing everything for them. Hit F7 to compile, F5 to run under debugger, click on lines to set breakpoints.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 12 2011
On 12 December 2011 20:09, Hans Uhlig <hans.uhlig teamaol.com> wrote:On 12/11/2011 1:26 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:And they did a great job. Visual Studio is a fantastically productive coding environment.On 11/12/11 1:52 AM, Walter Bright wrote:That's because cmd sucks. MS Powershell isn't much better. I have to use mintty just to be able to have a sane environment. Linux is a very shell oriented OS still even with Kde and Gnome. Microsoft did everything in its power to kill off the shell for "useability" reasons.On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-) Windows people are used to Visual Studio doing everything for them. Hit F7 to compile, F5 to run under debugger, click on lines to set breakpoints.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 12 2011
On Monday, December 12, 2011 20:39:11 Manu wrote:On 12 December 2011 20:09, Hans Uhlig <hans.uhlig teamaol.com> wrote:Having a great GUI and a great shell are not mutually exclusive. - Jonathan M DavisOn 12/11/2011 1:26 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:And they did a great job. Visual Studio is a fantastically productive coding environment.On 11/12/11 1:52 AM, Walter Bright wrote:That's because cmd sucks. MS Powershell isn't much better. I have to use mintty just to be able to have a sane environment. Linux is a very shell oriented OS still even with Kde and Gnome. Microsoft did everything in its power to kill off the shell for "useability" reasons.On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-) Windows people are used to Visual Studio doing everything for them. Hit F7 to compile, F5 to run under debugger, click on lines to set breakpoints.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 12 2011
On 2011-12-12 20:03, Jonathan M Davis wrote:On Monday, December 12, 2011 20:39:11 Manu wrote:Mac OS X is the perfect example of that. -- /Jacob CarlborgOn 12 December 2011 20:09, Hans Uhlig<hans.uhlig teamaol.com> wrote:Having a great GUI and a great shell are not mutually exclusive. - Jonathan M DavisOn 12/11/2011 1:26 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:And they did a great job. Visual Studio is a fantastically productive coding environment.On 11/12/11 1:52 AM, Walter Bright wrote:That's because cmd sucks. MS Powershell isn't much better. I have to use mintty just to be able to have a sane environment. Linux is a very shell oriented OS still even with Kde and Gnome. Microsoft did everything in its power to kill off the shell for "useability" reasons.On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-) Windows people are used to Visual Studio doing everything for them. Hit F7 to compile, F5 to run under debugger, click on lines to set breakpoints.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 12 2011
On 12/12/11 1:03 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:On Monday, December 12, 2011 20:39:11 Manu wrote:Look at the Mac... AndreiOn 12 December 2011 20:09, Hans Uhlig<hans.uhlig teamaol.com> wrote:Having a great GUI and a great shell are not mutually exclusive. - Jonathan M DavisOn 12/11/2011 1:26 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:And they did a great job. Visual Studio is a fantastically productive coding environment.On 11/12/11 1:52 AM, Walter Bright wrote:That's because cmd sucks. MS Powershell isn't much better. I have to use mintty just to be able to have a sane environment. Linux is a very shell oriented OS still even with Kde and Gnome. Microsoft did everything in its power to kill off the shell for "useability" reasons.On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-) Windows people are used to Visual Studio doing everything for them. Hit F7 to compile, F5 to run under debugger, click on lines to set breakpoints.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 12 2011
On 13 December 2011 01:59, Andrei Alexandrescu < SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:On 12/12/11 1:03 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:Have you actually tried to use XCode professionally? ... ;)On Monday, December 12, 2011 20:39:11 Manu wrote:Look at the Mac... AndreiOn 12 December 2011 20:09, Hans Uhlig<hans.uhlig teamaol.com> wrote:Having a great GUI and a great shell are not mutually exclusive. - Jonathan M DavisOn 12/11/2011 1:26 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:And they did a great job. Visual Studio is a fantastically productive coding environment.On 11/12/11 1:52 AM, Walter Bright wrote:That's because cmd sucks. MS Powershell isn't much better. I have to use mintty just to be able to have a sane environment. Linux is a very shell oriented OS still even with Kde and Gnome. Microsoft did everything in its power to kill off the shell for "useability" reasons.On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-) Windows people are used to Visual Studio doing everything for them. Hit F7 to compile, F5 to run under debugger, click on lines to set breakpoints.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 12 2011
On 12/12/11 6:09 PM, Hans Uhlig wrote:On 12/11/2011 1:26 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:I agree that cmd sucks. I disagree that people use Visual Studio because cmd sucks. At home I'm a Mac user, but at work I use Visual Studio. I've used Eclipse, XCode, code blocks, vim+makefiles, and I can easily say that Visual Studio is far and away the best development environment in existence. Nothing even comes close to it.On 11/12/11 1:52 AM, Walter Bright wrote:That's because cmd sucks. MS Powershell isn't much better. I have to use mintty just to be able to have a sane environment. Linux is a very shell oriented OS still even with Kde and Gnome. Microsoft did everything in its power to kill off the shell for "useability" reasons.On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-) Windows people are used to Visual Studio doing everything for them. Hit F7 to compile, F5 to run under debugger, click on lines to set breakpoints.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 13 2011
On 13 December 2011 21:50, Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com>wrote:On 12/12/11 6:09 PM, Hans Uhlig wrote:+100 ;)On 12/11/2011 1:26 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:I agree that cmd sucks. I disagree that people use Visual Studio because cmd sucks. At home I'm a Mac user, but at work I use Visual Studio. I've used Eclipse, XCode, code blocks, vim+makefiles, and I can easily say that Visual Studio is far and away the best development environment in existence. Nothing even comes close to it.On 11/12/11 1:52 AM, Walter Bright wrote:That's because cmd sucks. MS Powershell isn't much better. I have to use mintty just to be able to have a sane environment. Linux is a very shell oriented OS still even with Kde and Gnome. Microsoft did everything in its power to kill off the shell for "useability" reasons.On 12/10/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:Why do you think so many people ask for IDEs? :-) Windows people are used to Visual Studio doing everything for them. Hit F7 to compile, F5 to run under debugger, click on lines to set breakpoints.I think either would be fine, but having to use the command line for anything on Windows is a no-no these days in terms of usability.Since dmd is a command line tool anyway, why is it a usability problem to use dman?
Dec 13 2011
Peter Alexander wrote:I agree that cmd sucks. I disagree that people use Visual Studio because cmd sucks. At home I'm a Mac user, but at work I use Visual Studio. I've used Eclipse, XCode, code blocks, vim+makefiles, and I can easily say that Visual Studio is far and away the best development environment in existence. Nothing even comes close to it.For D, MonoD comes pretty close. In fact, it's actually better than VisualD (atm) because of it's correct code-completion and cross-platformness.
Dec 13 2011
On 11 December 2011 02:00, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:On 12/10/2011 3:45 PM, Manu wrote:Definitely the standard where I'm from (10 years in the video games universe, almost exclusively windows based sdk's). The expected functionality is to have the chm open sitting there while you work, type the first 2-3 letters of the keyword, function name, etc into the 'index' list, the topic appears and you immediately have your answer. There is also a lightning fast 'search' there for more abstract topics. The DirectX documentation is usually held in the highest regard by most people I've worked with, it's among the best examples of 'perfect' documentation as considered by any windows based developer. Most console vendors provide a similarly high quality and formatted set of reference material. That would be ideal, but that said, I'd be happy with the website if it were complete, and I didn't have to start digging every time I look something up. And even then, the descriptions are often vague, and I find myself chasing examples before I can even understand the documentation (see std.concurrency) ;) ... (note: I'm still failing to solve my problems, all with sharing and access rights to local variables passed between threads) In abstract, for me, as an end user of the language/libraries, my experience/expectations with most SDK's is that if it takes me longer than 10-20 seconds or so to get the answer to a trivial question, short, concise and articulate, I start to feel frustrated and like I'm wasting time. I think it leaves a really good impression with new comers to the language if they can just get into it and feel immediately productive. After all, I think for a lot of people (including myself), the promise of D is that of "C++ done right". If I can't just start coding and feel generally productive (sure, some language differences will take some time to adapt to), then it really dilutes that dream very quickly, which is what, I think, will attract most new comers to the language. So it's imperative to get that part just right, and that's all about the docs and presentation for me.Cool cheers, noted, although to be completely honest, I'm a windows user, and I will never type this. There should be a .chm in the distribution, which is the standard expected by any windows developer from any sdk they intend to take seriously. This is very easy to produce from the existing webpage, although indexing it might take some investment.I didn't think anyone preferred chm over web pages anymore!
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 4:44 PM, Manu wrote:So it's imperative to get that part just right, and that's all about the docs and presentation for me.I agree with you.
Dec 10 2011
On 12/11/11, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:I didn't think anyone preferred chm over web pages anymore!It is for me. All I have to do to get to some documentation of a symbol is highlight the symbol and hit F1, and the CHM with the section on that symbol comes up. Well now I could do the same thing with dman and it would open my browser instead. But dman wasn't around before.. ;)
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 5:05 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:Well now I could do the same thing with dman and it would open my browser instead. But dman wasn't around before.. ;)dman has suffered a bit from lack of TLC. But that can be fixed.
Dec 10 2011
Le 11/12/2011 01:00, Walter Bright a écrit :On 12/10/2011 3:45 PM, Manu wrote:Mostly Java programmer here. I ALWAYS prefer the chm version of all the Java documentation over google + official web doc. With the index, it's so much faster.Cool cheers, noted, although to be completely honest, I'm a windows user, and I will never type this. There should be a .chm in the distribution, which is the standard expected by any windows developer from any sdk they intend to take seriously. This is very easy to produce from the existing webpage, although indexing it might take some investment.I didn't think anyone preferred chm over web pages anymore!
Dec 11 2011
On Saturday, 10 December 2011 at 23:45:50 UTC, Manu wrote:and I will never type this. There should be a .chm in the distributionhttp://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5470
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 4:16 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:On Saturday, 10 December 2011 at 23:45:50 UTC, Manu wrote:Awesome, I had overlooked that. Can you do a pull request to put chmgen.d into a subdirectory of https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org, along with the instructions you provided?and I will never type this. There should be a .chm in the distributionhttp://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5470
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 6:01 PM, Walter Bright wrote:On 12/10/2011 4:16 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:Essentially, I'd like to have the .chm files automatically built by the makefile for the html documentation.On Saturday, 10 December 2011 at 23:45:50 UTC, Manu wrote:Awesome, I had overlooked that. Can you do a pull request to put chmgen.d into a subdirectory of https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org, along with the instructions you provided?and I will never type this. There should be a .chm in the distributionhttp://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5470
Dec 10 2011
Walter Bright Wrote:Essentially, I'd like to have the .chm files automatically built by the makefile for the html documentation.I'm curious: what kind of setup do you have there? The jump list in D's lib docs are very bad right now, and we could improve the javascript behind them, but I'd prefer to do it on the server. I did a D program to make it happen back in like February, but I don't know how to integrate it into your process. (I didn't think it would be a possibility until now!)
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 6:13 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:Walter Bright Wrote:It just statically serves html. No cgi.Essentially, I'd like to have the .chm files automatically built by the makefile for the html documentation.I'm curious: what kind of setup do you have there? The jump list in D's lib docs are very bad right now, and we could improve the javascript behind them, but I'd prefer to do it on the server. I did a D program to make it happen back in like February, but I don't know how to integrate it into your process. (I didn't think it would be a possibility until now!)
Dec 10 2011
Walter Bright Wrote:It just statically serves html. No cgi.See my reply to Andrei - the program modifies the static html ahead of time, so it just needs to be part of the build process, not part of the deployment. Here's a link to see its output: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/std_stdio.html I detailed the things in my other post.
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/11 8:13 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:Walter Bright Wrote:It's a makefile you can find on github.Essentially, I'd like to have the .chm files automatically built by the makefile for the html documentation.I'm curious: what kind of setup do you have there?The jump list in D's lib docs are very bad right now, and we could improve the javascript behind them, but I'd prefer to do it on the server. I did a D program to make it happen back in like February, but I don't know how to integrate it into your process. (I didn't think it would be a possibility until now!)Anything automated rox. Andrei
Dec 10 2011
Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:Anything automated rox.cool. I updated the program today to handle the new site. Take a look at the output: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/std_stdio.html Biggest improvement imo is anchors work better: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/std_stdio.html#File.writeln is distinct from #writeln. You might remember this from last winter when you introduced the cheatsheet idea. I figured I could automate the process by examining the html, and this is the result. (Improved a little tonight from how it was last time.) What it does is determine the fully qualified names from the html structure, then pulls out the first paragraph for each name. Using that, it fixes the link and generates the table, categorizing the found names as struct, class, function, enum, or unknown, with some support for subcategorizing if we add tags to the ddoc (I can write a macro to help that along) Anyway, with that in hand, it modifies the html to add these tables on top of each section. First, there's the module scope names, sorted alphabetically. Then, if you click struct File, you'll see that under it's description, right before it's members, there's a sub-table of member quick references. They are not categorized by class/struct since I think that's overkill in there. But, they are sorted by name and link right to the inside. If a file has more nesting, it should just work like this all the way through recursively. This little program runs on the command line and modifies a given html file, just writing out another static file you can upload to the server. Anyway it's pretty much complete here. Let me know what you think.
Dec 10 2011
Also, I was just wondering how it'd work on a page like std.container http://www.d-programming-language.org/phobos/std_container.html which already has a hand written table up top. So I ran it: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/std_container.html and I'm ok with it. In the d-p-l page, can you tell quickly what containers are actually offered? I can't... the list up top kinda tells you, but that's really ugly. But after running my program on it, the struct/class quick reference tables give it right away, and I don't think it's too full, even with the hand written table. So I like it. Only change I might make is combining the struct and class tables, and maybe some spacing issues. Again though, I'm open to ideas.
Dec 10 2011
On Saturday, December 10, 2011 23:14:20 Adam D. Ruppe wrote:Anyway it's pretty much complete here. Let me know what you think.Overall, I like what I see here, but I definitely that that ddoc itself should be fixed so that it generates proper anchors instead of requiring you to manipulate the page afterwards. In fact, as much of the documentation- generation as possible should be in ddoc IMHO. That way, anyone can get reasonable documentation for their own projects. - Jonathan M Davis
Dec 10 2011
Jonathan M Davis Wrote:In fact, as much of the documentation- generation as possible should be in ddoc IMHO. That way, anyone can get reasonable documentation for their own projects.I agree to an extent, but at the same time, I like keeping ddoc itself fairly simple. Correct anchors from ddoc are a no-brainer, it definitely should be doing that. I'd also like for it to mark off any D names it sees, so we can link them right into a search engine or something to do automatic cross referencing. (I want to add this to my program too, but regardless, the compiler would do a much better job at it than a regular expression or whatever I can do with the text.) I'm still meaning to revamp the compiler's default set of macros too, when I get around to it. But, I'm mixed on things like tables of contents. On one hand, it's definitely a useful thing to have, but on the other, how much can ddoc do without getting a lot more complicated? I'd hate to add a bunch of special cases in there, or worse yet, a whole bloody scripting language, to cover everyone's use-case. If we do tables, what's next? Though a nice content listing probably *is* worth it... Keeping ddoc simple and running the generated document through an additional program gives you all the flexibility of D - or whatever - without adding to the compiler. If you take a look at my program: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/improveddoc.d you can see that it isn't terribly complex, but part of that is that it uses my html dom library and std.algorithm to help out; of we replicated that inside the compiler it might be a lot messier.
Dec 10 2011
On 12/10/2011 9:52 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:Jonathan M Davis Wrote:Actually it might be nice instead of ddoc creating HTML if it created an intermediate XML or JSON format of documentation that could be transformed via XSLT+CSS into the final product be it html, chm, manpages etc.In fact, as much of the documentation- generation as possible should be in ddoc IMHO. That way, anyone can get reasonable documentation for their own projects.I agree to an extent, but at the same time, I like keeping ddoc itself fairly simple. Correct anchors from ddoc are a no-brainer, it definitely should be doing that. I'd also like for it to mark off any D names it sees, so we can link them right into a search engine or something to do automatic cross referencing. (I want to add this to my program too, but regardless, the compiler would do a much better job at it than a regular expression or whatever I can do with the text.) I'm still meaning to revamp the compiler's default set of macros too, when I get around to it. But, I'm mixed on things like tables of contents. On one hand, it's definitely a useful thing to have, but on the other, how much can ddoc do without getting a lot more complicated? I'd hate to add a bunch of special cases in there, or worse yet, a whole bloody scripting language, to cover everyone's use-case. If we do tables, what's next? Though a nice content listing probably *is* worth it... Keeping ddoc simple and running the generated document through an additional program gives you all the flexibility of D - or whatever - without adding to the compiler. If you take a look at my program: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/improveddoc.d you can see that it isn't terribly complex, but part of that is that it uses my html dom library and std.algorithm to help out; of we replicated that inside the compiler it might be a lot messier.
Dec 12 2011
On Monday, 12 December 2011 at 18:43:43 UTC, Hans Uhlig wrote:Actually it might be nice instead of ddoc creating HTML if it created an intermediate XML or JSON format of documentation that could be transformed via XSLT+CSS into the final product be it html, chm, manpages etc.The macro system lets you do that pretty well already (my program just treats the html as xml basically anyway). dmd -X also includes the documentation comments in the json it generates for each item. Though, this is unparsed doc comments so it's not as useful as the html you output.
Dec 12 2011
On 12/10/11 10:14 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:[snip] Yah, there's definite improvement. Adding categorization by hand will certainly help, and I think the program should not specify "Uncategorized" when there's no other category. There should also be no line after the category - color and boldface should be distinguishing enough. We could later on experiment with some collapsible stuff. Overall I see no shame in generating structured output with ddoc and then postprocessing it. Ddoc is supposed to generate structured documentation from code, not advanced cross-reference stuff and the such. Of course local improvements do make sense (e.g. distinguish member names from top-level names etc). I would try to compel you to put the proposed changes in the form of a pull request, but first I think you may want to work with Walter on finalizing the "try now" code. We should stay with one thing until it's done. Thanks, AndreiAnything automated rox.cool. I updated the program today to handle the new site. Take a look at the output: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/std_stdio.html
Dec 10 2011
On Sunday, 11 December 2011 at 06:52:25 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:I think the program should not specify "Uncategorized" when there's no other category.OK. Now, on the category tags, part of me wants to link back to something along the lines of my dpldocs.info site - a dynamic program to search the docs. (Which I'm in the process of revising) But, since there's no dynamic code on the live site, what might be best is making a few static pages for the categories, just pre-generating them too. Something along the lines of a site map, perhaps with a human written conceptual overview of the concept eventually too.I would try to compel you to put the proposed changes in the form of a pull request, but first I think you may want to work with Walter on finalizing the "try now" code.What happened there was it was fully operational.... and then the my server died. Hardware failure. I haven't replaced it yet, but do have something on the todo list about it. As soon as I bring a server back up, the try now buttons should reappear with ease; I think the javascript link is still there. Anyway though that hardware situation is the bottleneck there.
Dec 11 2011
On 2011-12-11 07:52, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:On 12/10/11 10:14 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:I think this is the wrong approach and I think ddoc should generate cross-references. -- /Jacob CarlborgAndrei Alexandrescu Wrote:[snip] Yah, there's definite improvement. Adding categorization by hand will certainly help, and I think the program should not specify "Uncategorized" when there's no other category. There should also be no line after the category - color and boldface should be distinguishing enough. We could later on experiment with some collapsible stuff. Overall I see no shame in generating structured output with ddoc and then postprocessing it. Ddoc is supposed to generate structured documentation from code, not advanced cross-reference stuff and the such. Of course local improvements do make sense (e.g. distinguish member names from top-level names etc).Anything automated rox.cool. I updated the program today to handle the new site. Take a look at the output: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/std_stdio.html
Dec 12 2011
On 2011-12-11 05:14, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:Wouldn't it be better if ddoc generate the correct HTML from the beginning. -- /Jacob CarlborgAnything automated rox.cool. I updated the program today to handle the new site. Take a look at the output: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/std_stdio.html Biggest improvement imo is anchors work better: http://arsdnet.net/d-web-site/std_stdio.html#File.writeln is distinct from #writeln. You might remember this from last winter when you introduced the cheatsheet idea. I figured I could automate the process by examining the html, and this is the result. (Improved a little tonight from how it was last time.) What it does is determine the fully qualified names from the html structure, then pulls out the first paragraph for each name. Using that, it fixes the link and generates the table, categorizing the found names as struct, class, function, enum, or unknown, with some support for subcategorizing if we add tags to the ddoc (I can write a macro to help that along) Anyway, with that in hand, it modifies the html to add these tables on top of each section. First, there's the module scope names, sorted alphabetically. Then, if you click struct File, you'll see that under it's description, right before it's members, there's a sub-table of member quick references. They are not categorized by class/struct since I think that's overkill in there. But, they are sorted by name and link right to the inside. If a file has more nesting, it should just work like this all the way through recursively. This little program runs on the command line and modifies a given html file, just writing out another static file you can upload to the server. Anyway it's pretty much complete here. Let me know what you think.
Dec 12 2011
On Monday, 12 December 2011 at 12:10:29 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:Wouldn't it be better if ddoc generate the correct HTML from the beginning.I touched upon this in another post... I say both yes and no. Yes because it'd be nice. A table of contents seems generally useful, and correct anchors and reference macros are braindead. (I'll see about implementing the name macros myself eventually.) But, no because I think it's going to complicate ddoc and still not cover everything. Suppose we add macros for the table of contents. What if we then want to add category sorting? That was an extra about 5 lines in my program, but I think it'd be fairly complex inside ddoc itself. Basically I view ddoc as being a parser that just happenes to be able to do human readable output.. but the real goal, in my mind, is to process it into something a computer can read back in easily to produce the final product. So, ddoc should make available all the information is has, but not necessarily do any formatting of it.
Dec 12 2011
On Sunday, 11 December 2011 at 02:07:34 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:On 12/10/2011 6:01 PM, Walter Bright wrote:I began work on this and ported chmgen to D2. However, chmgen was written to operate on the files as they appear in the DMD zip files, not the ones on d-programming-language.org. How is the zip file documentation generated?On 12/10/2011 4:16 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:Essentially, I'd like to have the .chm files automatically built by the makefile for the html documentation.On Saturday, 10 December 2011 at 23:45:50 UTC, Manu wrote:Awesome, I had overlooked that. Can you do a pull request to put chmgen.d into a subdirectory of https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org, along with the instructions you provided?and I will never type this. There should be a .chm in the distributionhttp://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5470
Dec 11 2011
On 12/11/2011 9:04 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:I began work on this and ported chmgen to D2. However, chmgen was written to operate on the files as they appear in the DMD zip files, not the ones on d-programming-language.org. How is the zip file documentation generated?Do you mean it works on the html files rather than the dd files?
Dec 11 2011
On Monday, 12 December 2011 at 05:08:28 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:On 12/11/2011 9:04 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:Yes, that's correct. It parses the HTML files with a few regular expressions to adjust the layout a bit and fix links. After all, CHM == "Compiled HTML Help".I began work on this and ported chmgen to D2. However, chmgen was written to operate on the files as they appear in the DMD zip files, not the ones on d-programming-language.org. How is the zip file documentation generated?Do you mean it works on the html files rather than the dd files?
Dec 11 2011
On 12/11/2011 9:11 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:On Monday, 12 December 2011 at 05:08:28 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:Then add it to the makefile as depending on the html files, rather than the dd files. (The makefile generates the html files.)On 12/11/2011 9:04 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:Yes, that's correct. It parses the HTML files with a few regular expressions to adjust the layout a bit and fix links. After all, CHM == "Compiled HTML Help".I began work on this and ported chmgen to D2. However, chmgen was written to operate on the files as they appear in the DMD zip files, not the ones on d-programming-language.org. How is the zip file documentation generated?Do you mean it works on the html files rather than the dd files?
Dec 11 2011
On Monday, 12 December 2011 at 05:33:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:On 12/11/2011 9:11 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:Yes, that was what I was going to do. However, the layout of files generated for d-programming-language.org differs substantially from those included in the zip file, so I'm asking if there's a way to avoid having to modify chmgen to work with the d-p-l.org version.On Monday, 12 December 2011 at 05:08:28 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:Then add it to the makefile as depending on the html files, rather than the dd files. (The makefile generates the html files.)On 12/11/2011 9:04 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:Yes, that's correct. It parses the HTML files with a few regular expressions to adjust the layout a bit and fix links. After all, CHM == "Compiled HTML Help".I began work on this and ported chmgen to D2. However, chmgen was written to operate on the files as they appear in the DMD zip files, not the ones on d-programming-language.org. How is the zip file documentation generated?Do you mean it works on the html files rather than the dd files?
Dec 11 2011
On 12/11/2011 9:46 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:Yes, that was what I was going to do. However, the layout of files generated for d-programming-language.org differs substantially from those included in the zip file, so I'm asking if there's a way to avoid having to modify chmgen to work with the d-p-l.org version.You could add a parameter to chmgen to tell it where the files are.
Dec 11 2011
On Monday, 12 December 2011 at 06:57:52 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:On 12/11/2011 9:46 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:Certainly, but that goes against the idea of a chm makefile target. Anyway, it's probably worth doing the work of using the d-p-l.org files. I could use the opportunity to move some of the hacks out of chmgen into the docs as proper fixes.Yes, that was what I was going to do. However, the layout of files generated for d-programming-language.org differs substantially from those included in the zip file, so I'm asking if there's a way to avoid having to modify chmgen to work with the d-p-l.org version.You could add a parameter to chmgen to tell it where the files are.
Dec 12 2011
On 12/12/2011 8:57 AM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:Anyway, it's probably worth doing the work of using the d-p-l.org files. I could use the opportunity to move some of the hacks out of chmgen into the docs as proper fixes.I do appreciate the effort you're putting into this. I think chmgen will be a valuable addition.
Dec 12 2011
On Monday, 12 December 2011 at 22:28:30 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:On 12/12/2011 8:57 AM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:Thanks. Here it is: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/pull/46Anyway, it's probably worth doing the work of using the d-p-l.org files. I could use the opportunity to move some of the hacks out of chmgen into the docs as proper fixes.I do appreciate the effort you're putting into this. I think chmgen will be a valuable addition.
Dec 13 2011
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/pull/46looking forward to try this out. thanks for your work.
Dec 13 2011
On Tuesday, 13 December 2011 at 15:23:59 UTC, Mirko Pilger wrote:Here is the compiled file from current docs: http://dump.thecybershadow.net/115d4504aa073d18ad7de9bf862095e6/d.chmhttps://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/pull/46looking forward to try this out. thanks for your work.
Dec 13 2011