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digitalmars.D - create digitalmars.D.moderated ??

reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
messages.

The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I 
like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.
Nov 20 2007
next sibling parent Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org> writes:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:04:12 -0800
Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal
 attacks. Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the
 quality of the messages.


Sounds good to me. I haven't read comp.lang.*.moderated before, but I
hope the discussions can somewhat be seen as educational
archive of rather high-level discussions.


 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west
 that makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some.
 While I like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it
 uncomfortable.


It's somewhat hard these days to distinguish the wild-west from the
high-quality threads/posts. Apart from that, I prefer the wild west
approach.

(I sincerely hope this is not too much seen as a "me too"
post. :P)

-- 
Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org>
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jascha Wetzel <firstname mainia.de> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
 messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I 
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


if the moderation leads to a more compact, relevant only, yet complete 
coverage of ongoing developments, i would appreciate such a NG as a time 
saver.
Nov 20 2007
parent Graham St Jack <graham.stjack internode.on.net> writes:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:18:44 +0100, Jascha Wetzel wrote:


 Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created,
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks.
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the
 messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


 
 if the moderation leads to a more compact, relevant only, yet complete
 coverage of ongoing developments, i would appreciate such a NG as a time
 saver.


I agree
Nov 22 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. [...]


Weeell, moderated NGs save time, but that could possibly be as well
achieved with careful score file management. Basically I don't find
order too disagreeable, but it's not worth the price to have a law.

regards, frank
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent Marco <marco nospam.com> writes:
Walter Bright Wrote:


 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
 messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I 
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


digitalmars.D is pretty much on topic most of the time, just nominate a couple
of folks to do pure spam removal or "re-direct" postings to appropos NG. 
Otherwise this NG will fragment and you have to read two groups instead of one.
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
 messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I 
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


Hmmm... honestly, I'm against the idea. If there was a lot of spam, I 
can see the value; however I believe it will simply serve to reduce 
discussion throughput and split discussions, as well as force users to 
check two different groups. Plus, it gets down to the question of what's 
really "on topic," and could easily cause more animosity than it 
prevents (and as mentioned in the digitalmars.D.tango discussion, create 
an "us vs. them" mentality).

While occasionally threads here do degenerate into personal attacks, it 
seems pretty rare, and even the Phango thread didn't turn into an 
all-out flame war. But then again, I haven't really been around long 
enough to say much.
Nov 20 2007
next sibling parent Lars Noschinski <lars-2006-1 usenet.noschinski.de> writes:
* Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> [07-11-20 16:34]:

Walter Bright wrote:


[digitalmars.D.moderated]

Hmmm... honestly, I'm against the idea. If there was a lot of spam, I can see 
the value; however I believe it will simply serve to reduce discussion 
throughput and split discussions, as well as force users to check two different 
groups. Plus, it gets down to the question of what's really "on topic," and 
could easily cause more animosity than it prevents (and as mentioned in the 
digitalmars.D.tango discussion, create an "us vs. them" mentality).


I'd like to second that.
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Robert Fraser wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal 
 attacks. Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the 
 quality of the messages.

 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While 
 I like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


 
 Hmmm... honestly, I'm against the idea. If there was a lot of spam, I 
 can see the value; however I believe it will simply serve to reduce 
 discussion throughput and split discussions, as well as force users to 
 check two different groups. Plus, it gets down to the question of what's 
 really "on topic," and could easily cause more animosity than it 
 prevents (and as mentioned in the digitalmars.D.tango discussion, create 
 an "us vs. them" mentality).


It's not this way at all with comp.lang.c++.  Generally, the moderated 
forum serves both as a both a place to ask questions of and to discuss 
language issues and more complex theoretical topics while the 
un-moderated forum is for newbie type questions and more general 
discussion.  In your support however, since D already has a 'learn' 
newsgroup, it may be that the un-moderated forum would really turn into 
more of an advocacy group.  That said, I like moderated forums because 
the signal to noise ratio is typically much higher, and thus helps 
pre-filter discussion for those with little free time (such as myself).

As for issues regarding what is "on topic," the rules used by other 
moderated forums would be a useful and simple guide to follow.  In my 
mind, the real issue is whether this community has people with the 
dedication to actually do the moderation.


Sean
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent Gregor Richards <Richards codu.org> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
 messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I 
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


me too
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
 messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I 
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


If we can find the volunteers, I think it would be great.


Sean
Nov 20 2007
parent reply BLS <nanali nospam-wanadoo.fr> writes:
Sean Kelly schrieb:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal 
 attacks. Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the 
 quality of the messages.

 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While 
 I like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


 
 If we can find the volunteers, I think it would be great.
 
 
 Sean


Is it you ? Is it you who has to decide about to publish or not to 
publish unpopular opinions ?  What kind of volunteers you are thinking 
about ..  BAH
Bjoern
Nov 20 2007
parent Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
BLS wrote:

 Sean Kelly schrieb:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal 
 attacks. Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the 
 quality of the messages.

 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west 
 that makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. 
 While I like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it 
 uncomfortable.


 If we can find the volunteers, I think it would be great.


 Is it you ? Is it you who has to decide about to publish or not to 
 publish unpopular opinions ?  What kind of volunteers you are thinking 
 about ..  BAH


I don't have the time to act as a moderator.  But moderation seems to 
work fine for other usenet groups.  One factor is that the moderator for 
a message is randomly chosen from the moderation pool, so even if there 
were bias on the part of one moderator, their ability to stifle messages 
would be limited.  Also, if someone feels that a moderator has acted 
unfairly then they are free to say so, and even to re-submit (though 
this is frowned upon in most cases).  So an unfair moderator would be 
unlikely to retain their position for very long.


Sean
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent Bruce Adams <tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk> writes:
Walter Bright Wrote:


 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
 messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I 
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


With some irony, I count 5 "me toos" out of 10 posts on just on this thread (at
the time of writing. 4 if I'm not being harsh.  50% pure noise and this is a
small thread. So you can count this as a me too too!
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply BLS <nanali nospam-wanadoo.fr> writes:
Walter Bright schrieb:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
 messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I 
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


NO!
It is sometimes uncomfortable to have a free NG, but disallowing 
opinions is in no case and never acceptable.  (It is not even a win)
In case that you establish such a NG be asured I'll drop out. FWIW
Bjoern
Nov 20 2007
next sibling parent reply BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to bls,


 Walter Bright schrieb:
 

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created,
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal
 attacks. Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the
 quality of the messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west
 that makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some.
 While I like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it
 uncomfortable.
 


 NO!
 It is sometimes uncomfortable to have a free NG, but disallowing
 opinions is in no case and never acceptable.  (It is not even a win)
 In case that you establish such a NG be asured I'll drop out. FWIW
 Bjoern


I think the idea is that peoples opinions should be aired, but only if they 
pertain to the subject under discussion. The moderator would be expected 
to make judgment calls like does an opinions about the social history of 
another posters's parents fall under this category. If it is on topic (even 
if the moderator is opposed to the opinion) then it should be let through.

That said, I am undecided as to if this is a good idea.
Nov 20 2007
parent reply BLS <nanali nospam-wanadoo.fr> writes:
BCS schrieb:

 Reply to bls,
 

 Walter Bright schrieb:


 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created,
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal
 attacks. Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the
 quality of the messages.

 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west
 that makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some.
 While I like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it
 uncomfortable.


 NO!
 It is sometimes uncomfortable to have a free NG, but disallowing
 opinions is in no case and never acceptable.  (It is not even a win)
 In case that you establish such a NG be asured I'll drop out. FWIW
 Bjoern


 
 I think the idea is that peoples opinions should be aired, but only if 
 they pertain to the subject under discussion. The moderator would be 
 expected to make judgment calls like does an opinions about the social 
 history of another posters's parents fall under this category. If it is 
 on topic (even if the moderator is opposed to the opinion) then it 
 should be let through.
 
 That said, I am undecided as to if this is a good idea.
 
 


Hi BCS/Brad ? Which person in monitoring the moderator ?  Who is finally 
responsible ?     NO, Sir, a moderated forum is bullshit.
Bjoern
Nov 20 2007
parent Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
BLS wrote:

 Hi BCS/Brad ? Which person in monitoring the moderator ?  Who is finally 
 responsible ?     NO, Sir, a moderated forum is bullshit.


The procedure for moderation is well established.  I suggest reading the 
FAQ for comp.lang.c++.moderated or one of the other moderated usenet groups.


Sean
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
BLS wrote:

 Walter Bright schrieb:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal 
 attacks. Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the 
 quality of the messages.

 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While 
 I like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


 
 NO!
 It is sometimes uncomfortable to have a free NG, but disallowing 
 opinions is in no case and never acceptable.  (It is not even a win)
 In case that you establish such a NG be asured I'll drop out. FWIW


I fail to see how adding an additional newsgroup would silence anyone. 
And who says that a moderated group would disallow opinions?  Content is 
simply filtered for relevance.


Sean
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Frank Benoit <keinfarbton googlemail.com> writes:
Walter Bright schrieb:

 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


I like the wild west.

I also think that making more and more groups is not useful. They
produce double posts, posts in wrong NGs, reading needs more NG
switching. Having dtl/learn/dwt/debug/.. I think the "D"-one alone would
be enough. leaving only

d          all discussions
d.bugs     bugzilla
d.announce to have them longer visible
Nov 20 2007
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Frank Benoit wrote:

 Walter Bright schrieb:

 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


 
 I like the wild west.
 
 I also think that making more and more groups is not useful.


I do agree with this.  I am not sure that the D community is large 
enough yet to warrant a moderated group.  But I would still find a more 
focused forum for discussion to be useful for my own time management.


Sean
Nov 20 2007
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:

 I do agree with this.  I am not sure that the D community is large 
 enough yet to warrant a moderated group.  But I would still find a more 
 focused forum for discussion to be useful for my own time management.


I've thought many times it would be nice to have a 'digest' or 'best of' 
where an editor would pull out the best postings and list them on a 
separate web page. That would be great for the people who need to keep 
up but aren't willing to read all the postings. Unfortunately, I don't 
see a way to do this automatically, it needs a human editor who'll be 
willing to spend hours a week on it.
Nov 20 2007
next sibling parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Sean Kelly wrote:

 I do agree with this.  I am not sure that the D community is large 
 enough yet to warrant a moderated group.  But I would still find a 
 more focused forum for discussion to be useful for my own time 
 management.


 
 I've thought many times it would be nice to have a 'digest' or 'best of' 
 where an editor would pull out the best postings and list them on a 
 separate web page. That would be great for the people who need to keep 
 up but aren't willing to read all the postings. Unfortunately, I don't 
 see a way to do this automatically, it needs a human editor who'll be 
 willing to spend hours a week on it.


I've wished for that too after reading through the Python-dev summaries. 
  (http://www.python.org/dev/summary/)
But it does take a dedicated volunteer.

--bb
Nov 20 2007
next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Bill,


 But it does take a dedicated volunteer.


volunteer? your kidding right? some weeks you'd have to pay overtime.
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 I've thought many times it would be nice to have a 'digest' or 'best 
 of' where an editor would pull out the best postings and list them on 
 a separate web page. That would be great for the people who need to 
 keep up but aren't willing to read all the postings. Unfortunately, I 
 don't see a way to do this automatically, it needs a human editor 
 who'll be willing to spend hours a week on it.


 
 I've wished for that too after reading through the Python-dev summaries. 
  (http://www.python.org/dev/summary/)
 But it does take a dedicated volunteer.


I'be thought about a newgroup FAQ, we could squabble over the details
(the Qs, and of course especially the As (not, not Asks!=)) in a wiki.
When the next person says "Why is not everything an Object in D like
in Ruby? The language could be so much better! Please change it!",
one could point to the matching generic Q in the FAQ.
How does RTFFAQ sound, btw? ;-)

regards, frank
Nov 21 2007
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 I've thought many times it would be nice to have a 'digest' or 'best 
 of' where an editor would pull out the best postings and list them on 
 a separate web page. That would be great for the people who need to 
 keep up but aren't willing to read all the postings. Unfortunately, I 
 don't see a way to do this automatically, it needs a human editor 
 who'll be willing to spend hours a week on it.


 
 I've wished for that too after reading through the Python-dev summaries. 
  (http://www.python.org/dev/summary/)
 But it does take a dedicated volunteer.


Wow, that's exactly what we need for D!
Nov 25 2007
parent Jan Claeys <digitalmars janc.be> writes:
Op Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:34:18 -0800, schreef Walter Bright:


 Bill Baxter wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:
 I've wished for that too after reading through the Python-dev
 summaries.
  (http://www.python.org/dev/summary/)
 But it does take a dedicated volunteer.


 
 Wow, that's exactly what we need for D!


Python "uses" newcomers (often students) who want to become cpython 
developers, as editors for those summaries.  It's a good way to learn to 
know the internals...


-- 
JanC
Nov 29 2007
prev sibling parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_C=E9sar_Carrascal_Urquijo?= writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 I've thought many times it would be nice to have a 'digest' or 'best of' 
 where an editor would pull out the best postings and list them on a 
 separate web page. That would be great for the people who need to keep 
 up but aren't willing to read all the postings. Unfortunately, I don't 
 see a way to do this automatically, it needs a human editor who'll be 
 willing to spend hours a week on it.


It could be quite easy to do it automatically. Just setting up a way to 
allow readers to vote on the web interface and for those of use that use 
a news reader we could forward the post that we like.

Mmmmm. Actually It would need a Digg style voting system so it isn't 
quite that easy, but is doable.

-- 
Julio César Carrascal Urquijo
http://jcesar.artelogico.com/
Nov 21 2007
next sibling parent reply 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
Julio César Carrascal Urquijo wrote:

 It could be quite easy to do it automatically. Just setting up a way to 
 allow readers to vote on the web interface and for those of use that use 
 a news reader we could forward the post that we like.
 
 Mmmmm. Actually It would need a Digg style voting system so it isn't 
 quite that easy, but is doable.


I think there may be something to this. A digest of the NG could be created
based on the merit of postings as voted by those who decide to wade through
the wild west forum (and vote, of course). I'd rather wade, but I gather it
would make things nicer for those who would prefer not to...

regards, frank
Nov 21 2007
parent reply 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
Hi, all!

As yesterday I registered 16-18 emails between 22:37 and about 01:45
and today it is so very calmn, I have decided to fill this void with
senseless gibberish, as is to be expected of me... =)
I hope nobody is afraid to write anything anymoar. So I have decided
to blatantly violate the peace and quietness during these few hours,
to test if it brings me any flames! Don't feed the Troll, unless the
silence lasts! Heeeh!

Hi to all D NGers, D IRCers, everyone who releases code, and Walter!

regards, frank
Nov 21 2007
next sibling parent reply Alexander Panek <a.panek brainsware.org> writes:
0ffh Wrote:


 
 Hi, all!
 
 As yesterday I registered 16-18 emails between 22:37 and about 01:45
 and today it is so very calmn, I have decided to fill this void with
 senseless gibberish, as is to be expected of me... =)
 I hope nobody is afraid to write anything anymoar. So I have decided
 to blatantly violate the peace and quietness during these few hours,
 to test if it brings me any flames! Don't feed the Troll, unless the
 silence lasts! Heeeh!
 
 Hi to all D NGers, D IRCers, everyone who releases code, and Walter!
 
 regards, frank


That's the nicest troll message I've ever read, that's for sure! :D

--
Alexander Panek
Nov 21 2007
parent reply 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
Alexander Panek wrote:

 0ffh Wrote:
 [nice troll]
 That's the nicest troll message I've ever read, that's for sure! :D


Thanks for feeding the troll! :)
I wonder if it might be construed that it would be a fair compromise
if everyone who writes off topic, in reply to whatever posting, marked
the subject with the literal "off topic" so that the posting can be
easily filtered out with a kill file (or for the tuning freaks, with
a score file). I have seen people do that here, and I think it might
be a real good idea.

regards, frank
Nov 22 2007
parent reply Clay Smith <clayasaurus gmail.com> writes:
0ffh wrote:

 Alexander Panek wrote:

 0ffh Wrote:
 [nice troll]
 That's the nicest troll message I've ever read, that's for sure! :D


 
 Thanks for feeding the troll! :)
 I wonder if it might be construed that it would be a fair compromise
 if everyone who writes off topic, in reply to whatever posting, marked
 the subject with the literal "off topic" so that the posting can be
 easily filtered out with a kill file (or for the tuning freaks, with
 a score file). I have seen people do that here, and I think it might
 be a real good idea.
 
 regards, frank


Trolls will not self moderate themselves, however. Anyways, I think 
Walter is aiming at dealing with personal insults and merit-less 
discussions more so than off topic threads.
Nov 25 2007
next sibling parent reply BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Clay,


 Anyways, I think
 Walter is aiming at dealing with personal insults and merit-less
 discussions more so than off topic threads.
 


some of the OT threads are the most fun. I've, on occasion, thought there 
should be a digitalmars.D.totalyofftopic NG. It would be open to *anything* 
that isn't offensive, obscene, illegal, etc.
Nov 25 2007
next sibling parent reply 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
BCS wrote:

 Reply to Clay,
 

 Anyways, I think Walter is aiming at dealing with personal insults and
 merit-less discussions more so than off topic threads.
 


 
 some of the OT threads are the most fun. I've, on occasion, thought 
 there should be a digitalmars.D.totalyofftopic NG. It would be open to 
 *anything* that isn't offensive, obscene, illegal, etc.


Hits halive!1! (Add maniacal laughter here...) =)

I second digitalmars.D.totalyofftopic btw. I just wonder:
Would on-topic discussions be off-topic in digitalmars.D.totalyofftopic?

regards, frank
Nov 25 2007
parent reply BCS <BCS pathlink.com> writes:
0ffh wrote:


 I second digitalmars.D.totalyofftopic btw. I just wonder:
 Would on-topic discussions be off-topic in
 digitalmars.D.totalyofftopic?


yes, and they would be ejected to the other NGs <G>


 regards, frank
Nov 26 2007
parent 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
BCS wrote:

 0ffh wrote:
 

 I second digitalmars.D.totalyofftopic btw. I just wonder: Would
 on-topic discussions be off-topic in digitalmars.D.totalyofftopic?


 
 yes, and they would be ejected to the other NGs <G>
 

 regards, frank


 


Wouldn't an on-topic post, by virtue of being being off-topic in
digitalmars.D.totalyofftopic, count as legal on-off-topic post?
                                                               /
That reminds me: We should really have loads of obscure  ( o   \
and ambiguous rules which we can then strictly and with      O ||
all neccessary means, and then some, not enforce at all! ( o   /
                                                               \
regards, frank

p.s.
no smiley? w00t, no fixed width font?
Nov 26 2007
prev sibling parent reply Clay Smith <clayasaurus gmail.com> writes:
BCS wrote:

 Reply to Clay,
 

 Anyways, I think
 Walter is aiming at dealing with personal insults and merit-less
 discussions more so than off topic threads.


 <snip>
 *anything* that isn't offensive <snip>
 


Everything these days seems to offend somebody somewhere.
Nov 26 2007
parent Derek Parnell <derek nomail.afraid.org> writes:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:31:02 -0600, Clay Smith wrote:


 BCS wrote:

 Reply to Clay,
 

 Anyways, I think
 Walter is aiming at dealing with personal insults and merit-less
 discussions more so than off topic threads.


 <snip>
 *anything* that isn't offensive <snip>
 


 
 Everything these days seems to offend somebody somewhere.


Hey! Ya lookin' at me?

-- 
Derek
(skype: derek.j.parnell)
Melbourne, Australia
27/11/2007 11:40:04 AM
Nov 26 2007
prev sibling parent reply Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
Clay Smith wrote:

 0ffh wrote:

 Alexander Panek wrote:

 0ffh Wrote:
 [nice troll]
 That's the nicest troll message I've ever read, that's for sure! :D


 Thanks for feeding the troll! :)
 I wonder if it might be construed that it would be a fair compromise
 if everyone who writes off topic, in reply to whatever posting, marked
 the subject with the literal "off topic" so that the posting can be
 easily filtered out with a kill file (or for the tuning freaks, with
 a score file). I have seen people do that here, and I think it might
 be a real good idea.

 regards, frank


 
 Trolls will not self moderate themselves, however.


They might self-moderate other people, though.
Nov 25 2007
parent Clay Smith <clayasaurus gmail.com> writes:
Christopher Wright wrote:

 Clay Smith wrote:

 0ffh wrote:

 Alexander Panek wrote:

 0ffh Wrote:
 [nice troll]
 That's the nicest troll message I've ever read, that's for sure! :D


 Thanks for feeding the troll! :)
 I wonder if it might be construed that it would be a fair compromise
 if everyone who writes off topic, in reply to whatever posting, marked
 the subject with the literal "off topic" so that the posting can be
 easily filtered out with a kill file (or for the tuning freaks, with
 a score file). I have seen people do that here, and I think it might
 be a real good idea.

 regards, frank


 Trolls will not self moderate themselves, however.


 
 They might self-moderate other people, though.


It's probably not the type of self-moderation of others that you want. 
:-p As in typical troll fashion...

ZOMG ur thread is offtopix, and you suck because you crack eggs open 
from the big end, everyone knows to crack eggs open from the little end.

/me done trolling
Nov 26 2007
prev sibling parent reply Denton Cockburn <diboss hotmail.com> writes:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 01:55:58 +0100, 0ffh wrote:


 
 Hi, all!
 
 As yesterday I registered 16-18 emails between 22:37 and about 01:45
 and today it is so very calmn, I have decided to fill this void with
 senseless gibberish, as is to be expected of me... =)
 I hope nobody is afraid to write anything anymoar. So I have decided
 to blatantly violate the peace and quietness during these few hours,
 to test if it brings me any flames! Don't feed the Troll, unless the
 silence lasts! Heeeh!
 
 Hi to all D NGers, D IRCers, everyone who releases code, and Walter!
 
 regards, frank


That wouldn't make it into digitalmars.D.moderated :p
Nov 22 2007
parent 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
Denton Cockburn wrote:

 On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 01:55:58 +0100, 0ffh wrote:
 

 [nice troll]


 
 That wouldn't make it into digitalmars.D.moderated :p


Thanks for feeding the troll!
Yup, probably not! ;-)

regards, frank
Nov 22 2007
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Julio César Carrascal Urquijo wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 I've thought many times it would be nice to have a 'digest' or 'best 
 of' where an editor would pull out the best postings and list them on 
 a separate web page. That would be great for the people who need to 
 keep up but aren't willing to read all the postings. Unfortunately, I 
 don't see a way to do this automatically, it needs a human editor 
 who'll be willing to spend hours a week on it.


 
 It could be quite easy to do it automatically. Just setting up a way to 
 allow readers to vote on the web interface and for those of use that use 
 a news reader we could forward the post that we like.
 
 Mmmmm. Actually It would need a Digg style voting system so it isn't 
 quite that easy, but is doable.


My experience with voting on Digg, Slashdot, and Reddit is that it needs 
a human editor.
Nov 25 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
 messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I 
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


I vote no.  There's not that much traffic on these newsgroups yet.
Occasionally we get bursts like recently, but even then, the bulk of the
messages have been on-topic.  Maybe not significant, but on-topic
nonetheless.  So I don't see that having a moderated forum would really
change much, except create fragmentation.  When D gets closer to having
comp.lang.C++ levels of traffic and newbie questions, then it's worth
considering.

The other downside to a moderated system is that since someone has to
look at every message, there is inevitably some delay in message
delivery, maybe up to 24hrs.  I'm just guessing though.

--bb
Nov 20 2007
parent "David B. Held" <dheld codelogicconsulting.com> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 [...]
 The other downside to a moderated system is that since someone has to
 look at every message, there is inevitably some delay in message
 delivery, maybe up to 24hrs.  I'm just guessing though.


The way c.l.c++.m works is that long-time posters generally get more 
leeway (read: less scrutiny), while newer posters are watched more 
carefully.  I've seen posts go through pretty quickly sometimes, because 
it's obvious that the moderators don't necessarily read every word of 
every post.  However, I will say that even as respected a group as 
c.l.c++.m has its own biases in moderation.  They are not consistent, or 
moderation would fail.  But it's quite easy for one or two people here 
or there to get a bad shake now and then and leave a bad impression of 
the NG.  Overall, I think it's a net win, despite the flaws.

Dave
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Clay Smith <clayasaurus gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
 messages.
 
 The original newsgroups will remain as the free-for-all wild west that 
 makes them both fun and perhaps a little intimidating for some. While I 
 like the wild west approach, many others clearly find it uncomfortable.


Part of what worries me about digitalmars.D.moderated, what will be the 
focus of the newsgroup? When will one post on moderated vs. d.announce 
or d.D or d.learn? Also, I'm not so sure the D community has enough 
manpower to pull it off, either.

I'm not familiar with c++.moderated though, so maybe I'm missing a piece 
of the puzzle.
Nov 21 2007
parent Dan <murpsoft hotmail.com> writes:
 Walter Bright wrote:

 It's been proposed that a new newsgroup be created, 
 digitalmars.D.moderated. It would work like moderated newsgroups on 
 usenet do, such as comp.lang.c++.moderated. There would be 3 or 4 
 volunteer moderators (not me), who would disallow posts that were 
 off-topic, me too, spam, lacked content, or contained personal attacks. 
 Ideally, the moderated group would set the bar for the quality of the 
 messages.




I think he means to eventually move the whole conversation to moderated. 
Personally, I don't think it's all that necessary.  Then, I don't ever see the
wrong kind of spam around here.  Good job about that btw.

Having mods tends to be irrelevant unless you have children flaming eachother
in a video game or linux mailing list environment.  D's seemed pretty safe.
Nov 21 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Lutger <lutger.blijdestijn gmail.com> writes:
I don't mind the flames and OT posts myself, but I do think it is 
unfortunate that the community should miss the input of those who 
refrain from posting because of it.

How feasible is it, from a communication point of view, to have all 
posts made in D and D.moderated sent to eachother? D.moderated would 
then be an exact copy of D, minus the posts that are modded away. Too 
much work?

[OT]If a moderated group were to be created, I hope that Andrei will 
reconsider posting again.
Nov 24 2007
next sibling parent reply "Janice Caron" <caron800 googlemail.com> writes:
I absolutely and wholeheartedly 100% endorse the creation of a
moderated group. I look forward to it. The moment its door open, I'll
be there (instead of here).

One question though - why does it have to be a newsgroup? As opposed
to, say, a forum. Forums are much easier to access. All you need is a
web browser. But perhaps more importantly, they are easier to
moderate. This is because posts can be edited and/or deleted, by the
moderator, *after the event*.

From the members' point of view, it's brilliant because members would
then have the ability to complain (to a moderator) about any post they
see as abusive, and if the moderator agrees, then it can be removed.
Essentially, this means members have redress.

From the moderators' point of view, it's also good, because it means
they can get away with being a little bit lazier when things get busy,
relying on members to make complaints, and knowing they can always fix
things later.
Nov 24 2007
parent reply "Kris" <foo bar.com> writes:
"Janice Caron" <caron800 googlemail.com> wrote in message...

I absolutely and wholeheartedly 100% endorse the creation of a
 moderated group. I look forward to it. The moment its door open, I'll
 be there (instead of here).


Then we can look forward to some of your posts being moderated :)
Nov 24 2007
parent reply Tomas Lindquist Olsen <tomas famolsen.dk> writes:
Kris wrote:

 "Janice Caron" <caron800 googlemail.com> wrote in message...

 I absolutely and wholeheartedly 100% endorse the creation of a
 moderated group. I look forward to it. The moment its door open, I'll
 be there (instead of here).


 
 Then we can look forward to some of your posts being moderated :) 
 
 


And yours too!
Nov 24 2007
parent reply "Kris" <foo bar.com> writes:
"Tomas Lindquist Olsen" <tomas famolsen.dk> wrote in message 
news:fi9pk6$2k43$1 digitalmars.com...

 Kris wrote:

 "Janice Caron" <caron800 googlemail.com> wrote in message...

 I absolutely and wholeheartedly 100% endorse the creation of a
 moderated group. I look forward to it. The moment its door open, I'll
 be there (instead of here).


 Then we can look forward to some of your posts being moderated :)


 And yours too!


Truly fine with me, Thomas! :)

Take the following hypothetical (but familiar) example ::  "Dammit! Tango 
explicitly uses spaces instead of Tabs! I'm gonna fork the lib right now 
cos' that is against my Religion! What the heck were those darned idiots 
thinking anyway? What a bunch of petty amateurs!"

That's where flames arise from, and if the above nonsense is eliminated via 
moderation, then I'm all for it too. If that were filtered, you wouldn't 
need to moderate the responses either. A win win, right? :)

Perhaps I should volunteer to be a moderator :p
Nov 24 2007
parent reply "David B. Held" <dheld codelogicconsulting.com> writes:
Kris wrote:

 [...]
 Perhaps I should volunteer to be a moderator :p 


Yes, let's send the fox to guard the henhouse...that would be a 
brilliant strategy!  I nominate Kris to be lead moderator!

Dave
Nov 24 2007
parent reply "Kris" <foo bar.com> writes:
"David B. Held" <dheld codelogicconsulting.com> wrote ...

 Kris wrote:

 [...]
 Perhaps I should volunteer to be a moderator :p


 Yes, let's send the fox to guard the henhouse...that would be a brilliant 
 strategy!  I nominate Kris to be lead moderator!


Thanks Dave! Your support is much appreciated :p

- Kris
Nov 24 2007
parent "David B. Held" <dheld codelogicconsulting.com> writes:
Kris wrote:

 "David B. Held" <dheld codelogicconsulting.com> wrote ...

 Kris wrote:

 [...]
 Perhaps I should volunteer to be a moderator :p


 Yes, let's send the fox to guard the henhouse...that would be a brilliant 
 strategy!  I nominate Kris to be lead moderator!


 
 Thanks Dave! Your support is much appreciated :p


No, seriously.  I nominated you to be a moderator.  I think it might be 
just what the doctor ordered (assuming there is such a thing as a 
newsgroup doctor).  Not everyone agrees with me, but we'll see what happens.

Dave
Nov 25 2007
prev sibling parent 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
Lutger wrote:

 I don't mind the flames and OT posts myself, but I do think it is 
 unfortunate that the community should miss the input of those who 
 refrain from posting because of it.
 
 How feasible is it, from a communication point of view, to have all 
 posts made in D and D.moderated sent to eachother? D.moderated would 
 then be an exact copy of D, minus the posts that are modded away. Too 
 much work?


I certainly hope not. And I certainly hope we don't go for the webnews
option, because I'm seriously considering to switch my newsreader, and
add certain words and phrases to the score file it will have; and I do
not neccessarily mean the phrase "off topic".

regards, frank
Nov 24 2007
prev sibling parent Dan <murpsoft hotmail.com> writes:
Oh.  From what's happening In Some Other Thread (tm) apparently D isn't as
sanitary as I'd thought.  I vote for smacking certain individuals with trouts,
mackerals and other similar vertebrates until sense is sufficiently beaten into
them.

Seriously though, most folk have it straightened out.  Going to the trouble of
running a moderated system is a PITA and totally not worth it unless you have
to.
Nov 25 2007