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digitalmars.D.bugs - Bugzilla - an experiment in trackability

reply Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now.  
I've got bugzilla setup here:

    http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/

Any new bugs or changes to existing bugs will be sent through to 
digitalmars.D.bugs.  Any messages posted in the newsgroup with the subject 
matching /bugs.*\d+/i will be auto appended to the referenced bug if the 
'from' email address matches a registered user.  The entire body of the 
message will be recorded, so please trim the body down to the really 
relevant information.  There's no need for the body to contain the entire 
contents of all past conversations since they will already be in the db.

I have NOT gone back and opened bugs for already reported bugs, except the 
one I used for testing.  Please feel free to do so for bugs you know to be 
still open.

The products and components available for filing bugs are still somewhat 
skeletal.  I'm sure there will be some rearrangements as we start to 
accumulate data.

I'm certainly open to suggestions on all facets of the system.  My goal is 
to provide a trackable system that allows us all to better understand the 
state of the d language and it's supporting pieces.

If you'd prefer to comment privately, that's welcome as well.

Later,
Brad
Mar 04 2006
next sibling parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_F_Bj=F6rklund?= <afb algonet.se> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:


 I'm certainly open to suggestions on all facets of the system.  My goal is 
 to provide a trackable system that allows us all to better understand the 
 state of the d language and it's supporting pieces.


Sounds great!
Just a little surprised, that you got Walter to accept Bugzilla... :-)
I thought he actually preferred the old newsgroup/email bug reporting ?

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/19733.html
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/23880.html
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/28207.html

Or maybe it's just a part of D "growing up" and maturing for a release ?

--anders
Mar 05 2006
parent reply braddr puremagic.com writes:
In article <due7nn$2bc9$1 digitaldaemon.com>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_F_Bj=F6rklund?= says...

Brad Roberts wrote:


 I'm certainly open to suggestions on all facets of the system.  My goal is 
 to provide a trackable system that allows us all to better understand the 
 state of the d language and it's supporting pieces.


Sounds great!
Just a little surprised, that you got Walter to accept Bugzilla... :-)
I thought he actually preferred the old newsgroup/email bug reporting ?

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/19733.html
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/23880.html
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/28207.html

Or maybe it's just a part of D "growing up" and maturing for a release ?

--anders


Let's not get hung up on past conversations and any motivations.  It's not
productive anyway.  Let's just actively show how much value having it can add
and improve things by using it effectively.

So, don't let the lack of currently entered bugs deter you (or anyone) from
starting to create new ones.  There's a chicken vs the egg issue to get past as
soon as we can (it's not used much so why bother, but if it was used then it'd
be obvious to use it).

Some bugs worth filing, for anyone who has the desire to help out:

1) dstress bugs that are failing
2) missing or inaccurate docs in the language or phobos web pages
3) old bugs from this newsgroup that seem to have gotten lost in the shuffle.

Later,
Brad
Mar 05 2006
next sibling parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_F_Bj=F6rklund?= <afb algonet.se> writes:
braddr puremagic.com wrote:


 Let's not get hung up on past conversations and any motivations.  It's not
 productive anyway.  Let's just actively show how much value having it can add
 and improve things by using it effectively.
 
 So, don't let the lack of currently entered bugs deter you (or anyone) from
 starting to create new ones.  There's a chicken vs the egg issue to get past as
 soon as we can (it's not used much so why bother, but if it was used then it'd
 be obvious to use it).


Sure, it's just that I don't want to duplicate too much effort...

I seem to have written a lot of docs, and patches, and bugs that
don't seem to be used, and it's a little annoying in the long run.

So that's why I wanted to know if it had the "official" blessing ?

--anders
Mar 05 2006
parent reply "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Anders F Björklund" <afb algonet.se> wrote in message 
news:duegls$2ljo$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 braddr puremagic.com wrote:
 I seem to have written a lot of docs, and patches, and bugs that
 don't seem to be used, and it's a little annoying in the long run.


I know it's annoying. There are so many postings here, things often do get 
overlooked by me.


 So that's why I wanted to know if it had the "official" blessing ?


Brad is willing to take charge of this, like Thomas is doing for dstress, so 
I think it will work out. I was resistant to it in the past because I didn't 
have the time to manage such a system. Thomas has made an enormous 
contribution to D with dstress, and I think Brad with bugzilla will as well.
Mar 05 2006
parent =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_F_Bj=F6rklund?= <afb algonet.se> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:


I seem to have written a lot of docs, and patches, and bugs that
don't seem to be used, and it's a little annoying in the long run.


 
 I know it's annoying. There are so many postings here, things often do get 
 overlooked by me.


I was more looking to streamline the process, not really annoyed,
actually surprised you've managed to find as much as you have :-)
This new bugzilla will work great I think, it's a common tool now.

At the moment I don't have so much time for coding, just packaging.
I'm slowly collecting what will eventually be a full GNU toolchain...
(compiler, debugger, IDE, GUI - all cross platform and open source)

--anders
Mar 05 2006
prev sibling parent =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_F_Bj=F6rklund?= <afb algonet.se> writes:
braddr puremagic.com wrote:


 Some bugs worth filing, for anyone who has the desire to help out:
 
 1) dstress bugs that are failing
 2) missing or inaccurate docs in the language or phobos web pages
 3) old bugs from this newsgroup that seem to have gotten lost in the shuffle.


I'm also going through the old RFE lists from Wiki4D at:
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?FeatureRequestList
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?PendingPeeves

If nothing else, it's good to know which ones are rejected already
since the same "suggestions" seem to be coming up again and again ?

There is also a lot of pending items in the spec/docs listed at:
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?DocComments (linked from DM)
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?DocumentationAmendments (TODO)


Request:
When adding old bugs, please add a reference to the old one like so:
http://www.digitalmars.com/drn-bin/wwwnews?digitalmars.D.bugs/5851

Just like Walter does on the DMD Change Log:
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/changelog.html

--anders
Mar 05 2006
prev sibling next sibling parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Thomas_K=FChne?= <thomas-dloop kuehne.cn> writes:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Brad Roberts wrote:

 Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now.  
 I've got bugzilla setup here:
 
     http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/
 
 Any new bugs or changes to existing bugs will be sent through to 
 digitalmars.D.bugs.  Any messages posted in the newsgroup with the subject 
 matching /bugs.*\d+/i will be auto appended to the referenced bug if the 
 'from' email address matches a registered user.


As a safeguard: how about ensuring that the "References:" header in
incomming news posts contains the message id that the first post of the bug
had?


 I'm certainly open to suggestions on all facets of the system.


The "References:" header of follow ups posted by bugzilla seems to be broken:

first message
Message-ID: <mailman.7.1141527035.5269.digitalmars-d-bugs puremagic.com>

followup
Message-ID: <mailman.8.1141542098.5269.digitalmars-d-bugs puremagic.com>
References: <bug-10-3 http.d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/>
In-Reply-To: <bug-10-3 http.d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/>

Thomas
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Mar 05 2006
parent Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

---1110348602-2077263407-1141549784=:30259
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

On Sun, 5 Mar 2006, Thomas K=FChne wrote:


 Brad Roberts wrote:

 Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now. =




=20

 I've got bugzilla setup here:
=20
     http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/
=20
 Any new bugs or changes to existing bugs will be sent through to=20
 digitalmars.D.bugs.  Any messages posted in the newsgroup with the subj=




ect=20

 matching /bugs.*\d+/i will be auto appended to the referenced bug if th=




e=20

 'from' email address matches a registered user.


=20
 As a safeguard: how about ensuring that the "References:" header in
 incomming news posts contains the message id that the first post of the b=


ug

 had?
=20

 I'm certainly open to suggestions on all facets of the system.


=20
 The "References:" header of follow ups posted by bugzilla seems to be bro=


ken:

=20
 first message
 Message-ID: <mailman.7.1141527035.5269.digitalmars-d-bugs puremagic.com>
=20
 followup
 Message-ID: <mailman.8.1141542098.5269.digitalmars-d-bugs puremagic.com>
 References: <bug-10-3 http.d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/>
 In-Reply-To: <bug-10-3 http.d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/>
=20
 Thomas


From=20bug 11 forward, that's fixed.  It's something I knew was broken but=
=20
decided to defer fixing and go ahead and get the word out.  The problem=20
was that mailman was replacing the message-id's bugzilla was inserting.  I=
=20
hacked up bugzilla to post directly to the news group (which will get=20
picked up by mailman and forwarded on to the subscribers to the list). =20
That keeps the message-id in tact and all future bugzilla based emails=20
contain a proper references field already, as you've shown above.

Good idea, way ahead of ya. :)

Later,
Brad
---1110348602-2077263407-1141549784=:30259--
Mar 05 2006
prev sibling next sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now.  
 I've got bugzilla setup here:
 
     http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/


For what it's worth, it seems my spam filter trashed the confirm email 
so I never saw it.  But I was able to go through the "I lost my 
password" process and that one made it.  So if anyone didn't get a 
prompt reply when registering, that's likely the cause.


Sean
Mar 05 2006
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Some feedback now that I've used this a bit:

How should documentation bugs be filed?  Using the "www.digitalmars.com" 
component?  Or perhaps a separate component should be created for this?

After clicking "new" to enter a new bug, the list of targets includes 
"TestProduct," which should be removed.

It would be nice to establish some submission guidelines, particularly 
on how to set priority and severity.

Establishing general criteria for keywords might be useful as well. 
I'll enter them, but don't know what search terms to use.

Would Walter prefer test cases entered in the description or attached as 
files?  I've done the former for old bugs, but it would be useful to 
know how to format future reports.

That's it for now.  More as I think of it :-)


Sean
Mar 05 2006
parent reply "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Sean Kelly" <sean f4.ca> wrote in message 
news:dufhan$uj9$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 It would be nice to establish some submission guidelines, particularly on 
 how to set priority and severity.


Priority:

P1: so bad that an update needs to happen immediately; i.e. it makes D 
unusable
P2: fold into next update; things that break existing code go here
P3: should get around to fixing sooner or later
P4: defer until next major version
P5: informational; nobody really cares

Severity:

blocker - prevents use of a major component of D, such as phobos
critical - silent generation of bad code
major - produces compiler crash or generation of internal error messages
normal - garden variety bugs
minor - easy workaround
trivial - only of interest to compiler validation test suites
enhancement - change to documented behavior


 Would Walter prefer test cases entered in the description or attached as 
 files?  I've done the former for old bugs, but it would be useful to know 
 how to format future reports.


If the size is reasonably small, they should be in the description.
Mar 05 2006
parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006, Walter Bright wrote:


 Priority:
 
 P1: so bad that an update needs to happen immediately; i.e. it makes D 
 unusable
 P2: fold into next update; things that break existing code go here
 P3: should get around to fixing sooner or later
 P4: defer until next major version
 P5: informational; nobody really cares


I'll add these to the page you see when you click on the Priority link 
when entering a bug.  I tend to think of priority as something that you as 
the author should be setting.


 Severity:
 
 blocker - prevents use of a major component of D, such as phobos
 critical - silent generation of bad code
 major - produces compiler crash or generation of internal error messages
 normal - garden variety bugs
 minor - easy workaround
 trivial - only of interest to compiler validation test suites
 enhancement - change to documented behavior


I tend to think of severity as something the submitter sets, though it can 
be adjusted certainly.

IMHO, Severity should be tempered by the nature of the bug.  If it's a 
crash of the compiler on invalid code that is less severe than a crash on 
valid code.

Some of your descriptions above touch on another area of classification 
that fits into what bugzilla calls keywords. I've copied the same keywords 
that the gcc crew use.  Click on the keywords link when submitting a bug 
to see the list.

I can update the docs to list the above descriptions, but before I do, 
here's the current descriptions.  Think a little about this before I go 
and change them.

Blocker     Blocks development and/or testing work
Critical    crashes, loss of data, severe memory leak
Major       major loss of function
Minor       minor loss of function, or other problem where easy workaround is
present
Trivial     cosmetic problem like misspelled words or misaligned text
Enhancement Request for enhancement


 Would Walter prefer test cases entered in the description or attached as 
 files?  I've done the former for old bugs, but it would be useful to know 
 how to format future reports.


 
 If the size is reasonably small, they should be in the description. 


If the test case is small and unlikely to change, I agree.  If you think 
the test case is going to evolve, an attachment is probably better since 
they can be marked obsolete making it easier to track the relevance of 
them.

Later,
Brad
Mar 05 2006
next sibling parent "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Brad Roberts" <braddr puremagic.com> wrote in message 
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0603051503050.30259 bellevue.puremagic.com...

 I can update the docs to list the above descriptions, but before I do,
 here's the current descriptions.  Think a little about this before I go
 and change them.

 Blocker     Blocks development and/or testing work
 Critical    crashes, loss of data, severe memory leak
 Major       major loss of function
 Minor       minor loss of function, or other problem where easy workaround 
 is present
 Trivial     cosmetic problem like misspelled words or misaligned text
 Enhancement Request for enhancement


These look good. Don't change them. I had thought there were no guidelines.
Mar 05 2006
prev sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 On Sun, 5 Mar 2006, Walter Bright wrote:
 

 Priority:

 P1: so bad that an update needs to happen immediately; i.e. it makes D 
 unusable
 P2: fold into next update; things that break existing code go here
 P3: should get around to fixing sooner or later
 P4: defer until next major version
 P5: informational; nobody really cares


 
 I'll add these to the page you see when you click on the Priority link 
 when entering a bug.  I tend to think of priority as something that you as 
 the author should be setting.


Same here.  But it's helpful if the submitter can make a reasonable 
guess at categorizing things--I know that I tend to push off bug reports 
with blank priority info and the like until I find time to review 
them... and it's rare that I find that time.  A perfect design may be 
more workflow-oriented, so the recipient could have an inbox of sorts 
where new bugs appear.  Though perhaps there's an easy way to manage 
this with reports?  I'll have to play with Bugzilla a bit more and see.


 Severity:

 blocker - prevents use of a major component of D, such as phobos
 critical - silent generation of bad code
 major - produces compiler crash or generation of internal error messages
 normal - garden variety bugs
 minor - easy workaround
 trivial - only of interest to compiler validation test suites
 enhancement - change to documented behavior


 
 I tend to think of severity as something the submitter sets, though it can 
 be adjusted certainly.
 
 IMHO, Severity should be tempered by the nature of the bug.  If it's a 
 crash of the compiler on invalid code that is less severe than a crash on 
 valid code.


Aye.  I was mostly trying to make sure that the existing values were 
meaningful to the recipient.  No reason to use the defaults if an 
alternate definition would be more fitting.


 Some of your descriptions above touch on another area of classification 
 that fits into what bugzilla calls keywords. I've copied the same keywords 
 that the gcc crew use.  Click on the keywords link when submitting a bug 
 to see the list.


Thanks.  I'll give it a look.


Sean
Mar 05 2006
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Stewart Gordon <smjg_1998 yahoo.com> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now.  
 I've got bugzilla setup here:
 
     http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/


<snip>

Good idea.  Just a few preliminary nitpicks:

- On the product list: "The DigitalMars D compiler and it's various 
components"
s/it's/its

- There ought to be a "d.puremagic.com" product, similar to the 
"mozilla.org" component in bugzilla.mozilla.org, for reporting issues 
with the Bugzilla installation (configuration issues, requests for new 
components/keywords, etc.).

Stewart.

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/M d- s:- C++  a->--- UB  P+ L E  W++  N+++ o K-  w++  O? M V? PS- 
PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++>++++ h-- r-- !y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on 
the 'group where everyone may benefit.
Mar 06 2006
parent Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006, Stewart Gordon wrote:


 Brad Roberts wrote:

 Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now.  I've
 got bugzilla setup here:
 
     http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/


 <snip>
 
 Good idea.  Just a few preliminary nitpicks:
 
 - On the product list: "The DigitalMars D compiler and it's various
 components"
 s/it's/its


Fixed.


 - There ought to be a "d.puremagic.com" product, similar to the "mozilla.org"
 component in bugzilla.mozilla.org, for reporting issues with the Bugzilla
 installation (configuration issues, requests for new components/keywords,
 etc.).


Good idea, added.

Later,
Brad
Mar 06 2006
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Stewart Gordon <smjg_1998 yahoo.com> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now.  
 I've got bugzilla setup here:
 
     http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/


"Bugzilla would like to put a random quip here, but no one has entered any."

That's because submission of new quips is disabled.  What's this about? 
  Either enable submissions or remove the quip display.

Stewart.

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/M d- s:- C++  a->--- UB  P+ L E  W++  N+++ o K-  w++  O? M V? PS- 
PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++>++++ h-- r-- !y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on 
the 'group where everyone may benefit.
Mar 06 2006
parent Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006, Stewart Gordon wrote:


 Brad Roberts wrote:

 Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now.  I've
 got bugzilla setup here:
 
     http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/


 
 "Bugzilla would like to put a random quip here, but no one has entered any."
 
 That's because submission of new quips is disabled.  What's this about?
 Either enable submissions or remove the quip display.


Enabled as moderated for now. If the submissions stay clean and 
reasonable, I'll probably open it up.  I don't like cleaning up after 
abuse, so I'd rather keep it simple and make sure it doesn't get abused.

Later,
Brad
Mar 06 2006
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Stewart Gordon <smjg_1998 yahoo.com> writes:
Adding or changing features in the D language involves changing both the 
compiler and specification.  As such, should such requests be filed 
under DMD or under www.digitalmars.com?

Stewart.

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/M d- s:- C++  a->--- UB  P+ L E  W++  N+++ o K-  w++  O? M V? PS- 
PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++>++++ h-- r-- !y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on 
the 'group where everyone may benefit.
Mar 06 2006
next sibling parent Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006, Stewart Gordon wrote:


 Adding or changing features in the D language involves changing both the
 compiler and specification.  As such, should such requests be filed under DMD
 or under www.digitalmars.com?
 
 Stewart.


I could always add a new component for the language itself.  I opted to 
start very small since it's really easy to rearrange bugs enmasse once 
things get to the point of needing to be better distinguished.  For now, 
personally, I'd say dmd with a severity of enhancement since the 
implementation has to support it before it's worth documenting. :)

Later,
Brad
Mar 06 2006
prev sibling parent "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Stewart Gordon" <smjg_1998 yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:duhstu$1gng$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Adding or changing features in the D language involves changing both the 
 compiler and specification.  As such, should such requests be filed under 
 DMD or under www.digitalmars.com?


Enhancement requests aren't bugs. I think enhancement requests should go in 
the digitalmars.D newsgroup, where people can argue about them <g>.
Mar 06 2006
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Kyle Furlong <kylefurlong gmail.com> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now.  
 I've got bugzilla setup here:
 
     http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/
 
 Any new bugs or changes to existing bugs will be sent through to 
 digitalmars.D.bugs.  Any messages posted in the newsgroup with the subject 
 matching /bugs.*\d+/i will be auto appended to the referenced bug if the 
 'from' email address matches a registered user.  The entire body of the 
 message will be recorded, so please trim the body down to the really 
 relevant information.  There's no need for the body to contain the entire 
 contents of all past conversations since they will already be in the db.
 
 I have NOT gone back and opened bugs for already reported bugs, except the 
 one I used for testing.  Please feel free to do so for bugs you know to be 
 still open.
 
 The products and components available for filing bugs are still somewhat 
 skeletal.  I'm sure there will be some rearrangements as we start to 
 accumulate data.
 
 I'm certainly open to suggestions on all facets of the system.  My goal is 
 to provide a trackable system that allows us all to better understand the 
 state of the d language and it's supporting pieces.
 
 If you'd prefer to comment privately, that's welcome as well.
 
 Later,
 Brad


The obvious next step is for Walter to allow trusted community members the
ability to fix bugs under a certain priority level. 
Ready? Discuss!
Mar 06 2006
parent Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006, Kyle Furlong wrote:


 Brad Roberts wrote:

 Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now.  I've
 got bugzilla setup here:
 
     http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/
 
 Any new bugs or changes to existing bugs will be sent through to
 digitalmars.D.bugs.  Any messages posted in the newsgroup with the subject
 matching /bugs.*\d+/i will be auto appended to the referenced bug if the
 'from' email address matches a registered user.  The entire body of the
 message will be recorded, so please trim the body down to the really
 relevant information.  There's no need for the body to contain the entire
 contents of all past conversations since they will already be in the db.
 
 I have NOT gone back and opened bugs for already reported bugs, except the
 one I used for testing.  Please feel free to do so for bugs you know to be
 still open.
 
 The products and components available for filing bugs are still somewhat
 skeletal.  I'm sure there will be some rearrangements as we start to
 accumulate data.
 
 I'm certainly open to suggestions on all facets of the system.  My goal is
 to provide a trackable system that allows us all to better understand the
 state of the d language and it's supporting pieces.
 
 If you'd prefer to comment privately, that's welcome as well.
 
 Later,
 Brad


 
 The obvious next step is for Walter to allow trusted community members the
 ability to fix bugs under a certain priority level. Ready? Discuss!


Um.. I'm sure he's already willing to accept fixes from anyone for any 
bug.  There's no guarantee that he'll take the change 'as is', but I'm 
_sure_ he's happy to have others diagnose and provide fixes for bugs.

Part of what's needed is a way to understand what bugs are being worked 
on.  Bugzilla provides that, but it requires that people actually use it 
well.  New bugs come in as status 'NEW'.  There's a radio button below the 
comment block for the bug to be changed to 'assigned' aka 'accepted, I'm 
working on it now'.

So, don't wait for feedback from walter on this.. just dive in and help.  
Granted, providing fixes for backend dmd bugs can't be done by anyone 
other than him, but anything in the front end and semantic level of the 
language and compiler can be fixed through gdc.  They share a front end.

Once you have fixes, attach diffs to the bug entry.

Later,
Brad
Mar 06 2006
prev sibling parent reply Bruno Medeiros <daiphoenixNO SPAMlycos.com> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 Ok.. it's probably a little rough still, but I think it's usable now.  
 I've got bugzilla setup here:
 
     http://d.puremagic.com/bugzilla/
 
 Any new bugs or changes to existing bugs will be sent through to 
 digitalmars.D.bugs.  Any messages posted in the newsgroup with the subject 
 matching /bugs.*\d+/i will be auto appended to the referenced bug if the 
 'from' email address matches a registered user.  The entire body of the 
 message will be recorded, so please trim the body down to the really 
 relevant information.  There's no need for the body to contain the entire 
 contents of all past conversations since they will already be in the db.
 
 I have NOT gone back and opened bugs for already reported bugs, except the 
 one I used for testing.  Please feel free to do so for bugs you know to be 
 still open.
 
 The products and components available for filing bugs are still somewhat 
 skeletal.  I'm sure there will be some rearrangements as we start to 
 accumulate data.
 
 I'm certainly open to suggestions on all facets of the system.  My goal is 
 to provide a trackable system that allows us all to better understand the 
 state of the d language and it's supporting pieces.
 
 If you'd prefer to comment privately, that's welcome as well.
 
 Later,
 Brad


First of all, thanks for this great contribution to the D community.

Now, some questions and comments.

The preferred way now to submit bugs is in the bugzilla, right Walter?
(and only in the bugzilla, since it takes care automatically of 
mirroring the report on the .bugs NG, right?)

How do we deal with spam now? For the bugzilla to work well I presume we 
have to enter correct email addresses there, but, coupled with the NG 
reporting (which, on top of that, is archived on the Web), we have a big 
spam bait here.

Also, out of curiosity, the NG reporting is a feature of bugzilla, or 
some add-on? Could you point me to some doc/info about it, I couldn't 
find any.

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - CS/E student
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D
Mar 08 2006
next sibling parent reply Don Clugston <dac nospam.com.au> writes:
Bruno Medeiros wrote:

 The preferred way now to submit bugs is in the bugzilla, right Walter?
 (and only in the bugzilla, since it takes care automatically of 
 mirroring the report on the .bugs NG, right?)
 
 How do we deal with spam now? For the bugzilla to work well I presume we 
 have to enter correct email addresses there, but, coupled with the NG 
 reporting (which, on top of that, is archived on the Web), we have a big 
 spam bait here.


Yup, that's a feature of bugzilla which is absolutely dreadful. And 
there doesn't seem to be any need whatsover for email addresses to 
appear anywhere. (I submitted a bug report about gcc, and they put my 
email on the bug report (it appears in XREF section). Three weeks later 
the spam flood began. Turned me off gcc for life).
Create a sacrificial email address for it, I reckon.

BTW, I reckon it's only a matter of time before 100% of spambots do
" ([a-zA-Z0-9_]+) at (([a-zA-Z0-9_]+) dot)+ (com|net|org)" regexp 
searches while looking for email addresses. I'm just amazed that people 
(including gcc compiler writers!) think that simple text replacement of 
  and . will keep them safe.
Mar 08 2006
next sibling parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Don Clugston wrote:

 Bruno Medeiros wrote:

 The preferred way now to submit bugs is in the bugzilla, right Walter?
 (and only in the bugzilla, since it takes care automatically of 
 mirroring the report on the .bugs NG, right?)

 How do we deal with spam now? For the bugzilla to work well I presume 
 we have to enter correct email addresses there, but, coupled with the 
 NG reporting (which, on top of that, is archived on the Web), we have 
 a big spam bait here.


 
 Yup, that's a feature of bugzilla which is absolutely dreadful. And 
 there doesn't seem to be any need whatsover for email addresses to 
 appear anywhere. (I submitted a bug report about gcc, and they put my 
 email on the bug report (it appears in XREF section). Three weeks later 
 the spam flood began. Turned me off gcc for life).
 Create a sacrificial email address for it, I reckon.


I simply game up on preventing spam a while back--a spam bot found my 
domain and started hitting evveryone on it simultaneously.  However, 
we've got Spamassassin and such installed to filter via procmail and I 
don't see more than one or two spam mails a week in my inbox.  Couple 
that with the Thunderbird filtering and that takes the number down to 
basically zero.  I'd suggest simply using gmail or another service that 
has capable spam filtering and not worry about it.  Though this 
obviously doesn't hold for work accounts (I've never put my work email 
online and I probably get 10 spam mails a day there).


Sean
Mar 08 2006
parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Sean Kelly wrote:

 Don Clugston wrote:

 Bruno Medeiros wrote:

 The preferred way now to submit bugs is in the bugzilla, right Walter?
 (and only in the bugzilla, since it takes care automatically of mirroring
 the report on the .bugs NG, right?)
 
 How do we deal with spam now? For the bugzilla to work well I presume we
 have to enter correct email addresses there, but, coupled with the NG
 reporting (which, on top of that, is archived on the Web), we have a big
 spam bait here.


 
 Yup, that's a feature of bugzilla which is absolutely dreadful. And there
 doesn't seem to be any need whatsover for email addresses to appear
 anywhere. (I submitted a bug report about gcc, and they put my email on the
 bug report (it appears in XREF section). Three weeks later the spam flood
 began. Turned me off gcc for life).
 Create a sacrificial email address for it, I reckon.


 
 I simply game up on preventing spam a while back--a spam bot found my domain
 and started hitting evveryone on it simultaneously.  However, we've got
 Spamassassin and such installed to filter via procmail and I don't see more
 than one or two spam mails a week in my inbox.  Couple that with the
 Thunderbird filtering and that takes the number down to basically zero.  I'd
 suggest simply using gmail or another service that has capable spam filtering
 and not worry about it.  Though this obviously doesn't hold for work accounts
 (I've never put my work email online and I probably get 10 spam mails a day
 there).


A agree with Sean here.  I've used one and only one email address for a 
little over 10 years now asside from a few spamtrap addresses at various 
points on and off (ie, never ever used, just exist to see what spam gets 
delivered).  The rates are approximately the same.  I long ago decided 
that the only defense is to be defensive.. greylist, spamassassin, etc.  
Train up some good filters and protect yourself.  Relying on lack of 
posting just doesn't work.

There's little point to a bug tracking system where you can't track and 
communicate with the submitters.  Large percentage of bugs need 
interaction.  Bugzilla, like most web based tracking systems, has that as 
an underlying assumption and I don't have the time or will to invest the 
time it'd take to change that assumption.  I'd much rather spend it fixing 
dmd/gdc/etc.

Later,
Brad
Mar 08 2006
parent Don Clugston <dac nospam.com.au> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Sean Kelly wrote:

 Don Clugston wrote:

 Bruno Medeiros wrote:

 The preferred way now to submit bugs is in the bugzilla, right Walter?
 (and only in the bugzilla, since it takes care automatically of mirroring
 the report on the .bugs NG, right?)

 How do we deal with spam now? For the bugzilla to work well I presume we
 have to enter correct email addresses there, but, coupled with the NG
 reporting (which, on top of that, is archived on the Web), we have a big
 spam bait here.


 Yup, that's a feature of bugzilla which is absolutely dreadful. And there
 doesn't seem to be any need whatsover for email addresses to appear
 anywhere. (I submitted a bug report about gcc, and they put my email on the
 bug report (it appears in XREF section). Three weeks later the spam flood
 began. Turned me off gcc for life).
 Create a sacrificial email address for it, I reckon.


 I simply game up on preventing spam a while back--a spam bot found my domain
 and started hitting evveryone on it simultaneously.  However, we've got
 Spamassassin and such installed to filter via procmail and I don't see more
 than one or two spam mails a week in my inbox.  Couple that with the
 Thunderbird filtering and that takes the number down to basically zero.  I'd
 suggest simply using gmail or another service that has capable spam filtering
 and not worry about it.  Though this obviously doesn't hold for work accounts
 (I've never put my work email online and I probably get 10 spam mails a day
 there).


 
 A agree with Sean here.  I've used one and only one email address for a 
 little over 10 years now asside from a few spamtrap addresses at various 
 points on and off (ie, never ever used, just exist to see what spam gets 
 delivered).  The rates are approximately the same.  I long ago decided 
 that the only defense is to be defensive.. greylist, spamassassin, etc.  
 Train up some good filters and protect yourself.  Relying on lack of 
 posting just doesn't work.


Actually, it worked extremely well for me for a long time -- but I was 
very careful, using sacrificial emails for anything remotely suspect. I 
use dual filtering (both server and Thunderbird) as well. But until the 
gcc debacle, no spam had *ever* reached Thunderbird. Now that my 
workplace has started using Outlook (aka "Microsoft PetriDish (tm), the 
perfect breeding ground for viruses"), it's a lost cause for all my 
accounts.


 There's little point to a bug tracking system where you can't track and 
 communicate with the submitters.  Large percentage of bugs need 
 interaction.


I agree, but I think that information should only be visible to 
registered users. The dsource forums work very well that way, for example.

  Bugzilla, like most web based tracking systems, has that as

 an underlying assumption and I don't have the time or will to invest the 
 time it'd take to change that assumption.  I'd much rather spend it fixing 
 dmd/gdc/etc.


I agree, but I really think the Bugzilla guys should improve the 
situation. It's a relic of the pre-spam era. At the very least, it 
should warn anyone who registers, that any email address they enter will 
be spam bait.
Mar 09 2006
prev sibling parent "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message 
news:dumpam$2e63$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 BTW, I reckon it's only a matter of time before 100% of spambots do
 " ([a-zA-Z0-9_]+) at (([a-zA-Z0-9_]+) dot)+ (com|net|org)" regexp searches 
 while looking for email addresses. I'm just amazed that people (including 
 gcc compiler writers!) think that simple text replacement of   and . will 
 keep them safe.


That's why the news archives here use 'xx' instead of 'at' <g>.
Mar 09 2006
prev sibling parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Bruno Medeiros wrote:


 The preferred way now to submit bugs is in the bugzilla, right Walter?
 (and only in the bugzilla, since it takes care automatically of mirroring the
 report on the .bugs NG, right?)


IMHO, bugzilla should be preferred over direct posting to the news group 
due to it's inherent trackability, yes.


 Also, out of curiosity, the NG reporting is a feature of bugzilla, or some
 add-on? Could you point me to some doc/info about it, I couldn't find any.


I did some custom hacks to bugzilla to get it to post to the newsgroup.  
It's on my low priority list to take the hacks and work them into a 
productizeable form.  I'm really too unhappy with how hacky the changes 
are right now to even hand out diffs.  I really want to make it more 
flexible and configurable than it is.  Right now it's very hardcoded, 
every bug, regardless of product, category, etc.. all get posted to 
digitalmars.D.bugs and only on the news.digitalmars.com server.  
Unacceptable, really.

Later,
Brad
Mar 08 2006
parent Bruno Medeiros <daiphoenixNO SPAMlycos.com> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
 

 The preferred way now to submit bugs is in the bugzilla, right Walter?
 (and only in the bugzilla, since it takes care automatically of mirroring the
 report on the .bugs NG, right?)


 
 IMHO, bugzilla should be preferred over direct posting to the news group 
 due to it's inherent trackability, yes.
 

 Also, out of curiosity, the NG reporting is a feature of bugzilla, or some
 add-on? Could you point me to some doc/info about it, I couldn't find any.


 
 I did some custom hacks to bugzilla to get it to post to the newsgroup.  
 It's on my low priority list to take the hacks and work them into a 
 productizeable form.  I'm really too unhappy with how hacky the changes 
 are right now to even hand out diffs.  I really want to make it more 
 flexible and configurable than it is.  Right now it's very hardcoded, 
 every bug, regardless of product, category, etc.. all get posted to 
 digitalmars.D.bugs and only on the news.digitalmars.com server.  
 Unacceptable, really.
 
 Later,
 Brad


It would be nice that in the posts made by the bugzilla system, the NG 
sender field had some info about the original poster, instead of 
"d-bugmail puremagic.com". For instance, like "braddr puremagic.com 
[BUGZILLA]" or some variation of that (possibly with the real name 
instead of email).

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - CS/E student
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D
Mar 11 2006