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digitalmars.D.announce - tiobe D remains at 14 but is losing ground for the second month

reply janderson <askme me.com> writes:
The June tiobe scores are out.  D remains at 14 but is losing ground for 
the second month.

http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm

-Joel
Jun 03 2007
next sibling parent reply Georg Wrede <georg nospam.org> writes:
janderson wrote:

 The June tiobe scores are out.  D remains at 14 but is losing ground for 
 the second month.


Could this be because we are concentrating on advanced issues in D, and 
totally ignoring the *users*?

As a first step, maybe we should split the D ng somehow?

Maybe D.1 and D.2, or simply D and D.advanced?
Jun 13 2007
next sibling parent reply Jari-Matti =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E4kel=E4?= <jmjmak utu.fi.invalid> writes:
Georg Wrede wrote:


 janderson wrote:

 The June tiobe scores are out.  D remains at 14 but is losing ground for
 the second month.


 
 Could this be because we are concentrating on advanced issues in D, and
 totally ignoring the *users*?


I believe it's more because there hasn't been many revolutionary new
features in the last releases and also because of the slower release cycle.


 
 As a first step, maybe we should split the D ng somehow?
 
 Maybe D.1 and D.2, or simply D and D.advanced?


Some kind of moderation would also help. Of course it causes additional work
to the ng admin (Walter) and complicates archiving, but there are many
posts that are sent to wrong group - especially bug reports and newbie
questions.
Jun 13 2007
next sibling parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Jari-Matti Mäkelä wrote:

 Georg Wrede wrote:
 

 janderson wrote:

 The June tiobe scores are out.  D remains at 14 but is losing ground for
 the second month.


 Could this be because we are concentrating on advanced issues in D, and
 totally ignoring the *users*?


 
 I believe it's more because there hasn't been many revolutionary new
 features in the last releases and also because of the slower release cycle.
 

 As a first step, maybe we should split the D ng somehow?

 Maybe D.1 and D.2, or simply D and D.advanced?


 
 Some kind of moderation would also help. Of course it causes additional work
 to the ng admin (Walter) and complicates archiving, but there are many
 posts that are sent to wrong group - especially bug reports and newbie
 questions.


The buzz generated by the D1.0 release is dying down.  That's all.  You 
can't really expect it to stay at the peak it reached following that.  D 
was on slashdot, and that probably led to D being on blogs all over 
tarnation, and that lead to some magazine articles, etc etc.  But the 
echo is fading out.  Aside from the top 5 or so, Tiobe is really about 
nothing other than how much buzz a language is generating.

Still I find D links popping up more and more often in my google 
searches for generic non-d-specific things.  But maybe it's google 
showing me D pages preferentially because I do search for them a lot? 
Does google do that kind of per-user jiggering of rankings with all that 
search history they hold onto?

--bb
Jun 13 2007
parent reply Georg Wrede <georg nospam.org> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 Does google do that kind of per-user jiggering of rankings with all that 
 search history they hold onto?


I'd be surprised if they do, but I'd welcome something like that. Maybe 
this should be suggested to them? OTOH, searching from your office and 
home computers would then give different results (because statistically 
your search profiles would end up being different), which might be 
awkward for many people. (Imagine remembering something you found at the 
office, and then trying to find the same thing from home.)
Jun 13 2007
parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Georg Wrede wrote:

 Bill Baxter wrote:

 Does google do that kind of per-user jiggering of rankings with all 
 that search history they hold onto?


 
 I'd be surprised if they do, but I'd welcome something like that. Maybe
 this should be suggested to them? OTOH, searching from your office and 
 home computers would then give different results (because statistically 
 your search profiles would end up being different), which might be 
 awkward for many people. (Imagine remembering something you found at the 
 office, and then trying to find the same thing from home.)


I was thinking more specifically of the case where you have a google 
account and have it set up to log you in automatically.   The google 
page I see usually has 'wbaxter gmail.com' at the top.  For those of us 
crazy enough to do that, google can watch our every step, and could be 
using those steps to recommend other steps.

I agree that it's very unlikely they do anything like that for anonymous 
users.

--bb
Jun 13 2007
parent reply Georg Wrede <georg nospam.org> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 Georg Wrede wrote:
 

 Bill Baxter wrote:


 Does google do that kind of per-user jiggering of rankings with all 
 that search history they hold onto?



 I'd be surprised if they do, but I'd welcome something like that. Maybe
 this should be suggested to them? OTOH, searching from your office and 
 home computers would then give different results (because 
 statistically your search profiles would end up being different), 
 which might be awkward for many people. (Imagine remembering something 
 you found at the office, and then trying to find the same thing from 
 home.)


 
 
 I was thinking more specifically of the case where you have a google 
 account and have it set up to log you in automatically.   The google 
 page I see usually has 'wbaxter gmail.com' at the top.  For those of us 
 crazy enough to do that, google can watch our every step, and could be 
 using those steps to recommend other steps.
 
 I agree that it's very unlikely they do anything like that for anonymous 
 users.


For account users, this would obviously be nice!
Jun 13 2007
parent reply Kyle Furlong <kylefurlong gmail.com> writes:
Georg Wrede wrote:

 Bill Baxter wrote:

 Georg Wrede wrote:


 Bill Baxter wrote:


 Does google do that kind of per-user jiggering of rankings with all 
 that search history they hold onto?



 I'd be surprised if they do, but I'd welcome something like that. Maybe
 this should be suggested to them? OTOH, searching from your office 
 and home computers would then give different results (because 
 statistically your search profiles would end up being different), 
 which might be awkward for many people. (Imagine remembering 
 something you found at the office, and then trying to find the same 
 thing from home.)



 I was thinking more specifically of the case where you have a google 
 account and have it set up to log you in automatically.   The google 
 page I see usually has 'wbaxter gmail.com' at the top.  For those of 
 us crazy enough to do that, google can watch our every step, and could 
 be using those steps to recommend other steps.

 I agree that it's very unlikely they do anything like that for 
 anonymous users.


 
 For account users, this would obviously be nice!


Its called "Web History" its on by default if you keep your google 
account open.
Jun 13 2007
parent reply Kyle Furlong <kylefurlong gmail.com> writes:
Kyle Furlong wrote:

 Georg Wrede wrote:

 Bill Baxter wrote:

 Georg Wrede wrote:


 Bill Baxter wrote:


 Does google do that kind of per-user jiggering of rankings with all 
 that search history they hold onto?



 I'd be surprised if they do, but I'd welcome something like that. Maybe
 this should be suggested to them? OTOH, searching from your office 
 and home computers would then give different results (because 
 statistically your search profiles would end up being different), 
 which might be awkward for many people. (Imagine remembering 
 something you found at the office, and then trying to find the same 
 thing from home.)



 I was thinking more specifically of the case where you have a google 
 account and have it set up to log you in automatically.   The google 
 page I see usually has 'wbaxter gmail.com' at the top.  For those of 
 us crazy enough to do that, google can watch our every step, and 
 could be using those steps to recommend other steps.

 I agree that it's very unlikely they do anything like that for 
 anonymous users.


 For account users, this would obviously be nice!


 
 Its called "Web History" its on by default if you keep your google 
 account open.


http://www.google.com/support/accounts/bin/topic.py?topic=10470&hl=en
Jun 13 2007
parent Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Kyle Furlong wrote:

 Kyle Furlong wrote:

 Georg Wrede wrote:

 Bill Baxter wrote:

 Georg Wrede wrote:


 Bill Baxter wrote:


 Does google do that kind of per-user jiggering of rankings with 
 all that search history they hold onto?



 I'd be surprised if they do, but I'd welcome something like that. 
 Maybe
 this should be suggested to them? OTOH, searching from your office 
 and home computers would then give different results (because 
 statistically your search profiles would end up being different), 
 which might be awkward for many people. (Imagine remembering 
 something you found at the office, and then trying to find the same 
 thing from home.)



 I was thinking more specifically of the case where you have a google 
 account and have it set up to log you in automatically.   The google 
 page I see usually has 'wbaxter gmail.com' at the top.  For those of 
 us crazy enough to do that, google can watch our every step, and 
 could be using those steps to recommend other steps.

 I agree that it's very unlikely they do anything like that for 
 anonymous users.


 For account users, this would obviously be nice!


 Its called "Web History" its on by default if you keep your google 
 account open.


 
 http://www.google.com/support/accounts/bin/topic.py?topic=10470&hl=en


"""
Web History helps deliver more personalized search results based on what 
you've searched for and which sites you've visited.
"""

Oh... ok so my experience with D popping up a lot in search results may 
be very atypical then.

--bb
Jun 13 2007
prev sibling parent Georg Wrede <georg nospam.org> writes:
Jari-Matti Mäkelä wrote:

 Georg Wrede wrote:
 
 

janderson wrote:


The June tiobe scores are out.  D remains at 14 but is losing ground for
the second month.


Could this be because we are concentrating on advanced issues in D, and
totally ignoring the *users*?


 
 
 I believe it's more because there hasn't been many revolutionary new
 features in the last releases and also because of the slower release cycle.
 
 

As a first step, maybe we should split the D ng somehow?

Maybe D.1 and D.2, or simply D and D.advanced?


 
 
 Some kind of moderation would also help. Of course it causes additional work
 to the ng admin (Walter) and complicates archiving, but there are many
 posts that are sent to wrong group - especially bug reports and newbie
 questions.


I was more thinking along the lines of not causing Walter more work.

The "second D ng" should have a name scary enough to keep all of 
newbies, regular (even advanced) users, and especially Real Users (as 
defined by actually *using* D for something productive, away. In 
essence, the new ng would be for esotherics, 2+ things, and other 
non-current ruminations.

All Real Stuff about D should be in the "regular" D newsgroup.

There's a huge void between D.learn, D.bugs and D.scary. Those folks now 
have to use the D ng which "from their viewpoint" is littered with 
rocket science, most of which isn't even becoming a reality, ever.

At the same time, it would be nice for us "2+ folks" to be able to 
choose from "regular D stuff" and "Our Esotherics" depending on our time 
at hand or just simply mood. I for example, sometimes want to look at D 
issues from an actual user's point of view, and at other times really 
want to tackle the "hard and interesting" stuff. Separate ngs would help 
even us. (Besides, the volume of posts is enough for the split anyway.)

Serving Customers -- anybody? As opposed to mostly just serving us D 
zealots and propeller heads.

---

Of course, there are a half dozen other things I could have suggested, 
but the ng split would be something doable right now, and without much 
work for Walter. All the others would need more effort. (Not that they'd 
be any less efficient or important. It's just that with this Const 
thing, I'd expect Walter not to want to be bothered with them right now.)
Jun 13 2007
prev sibling parent Dejan Lekic <dejan.lekic gmail.com> writes:
What I would like to have here (and I requested it) is the D.Phobos newsgroup
where we could discuss the standard D library. There are many places for
improvements, even in the current code.
Jun 15 2007
prev sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
Jul 10 2007