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digitalmars.D.announce - July 17, 2025: Computer Programming Language Panel

reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
at 6pm I'll be representing D as a panelist.

Details:

https://nwcpp.org/

"This month we will be hosting a joint meetup with the Rust User Group to 
discuss a breadth of programming languages with a panel of experts. In this
talk
Jul 17
next sibling parent reply Serg Gini <kornburn yandex.ru> writes:
On Thursday, 17 July 2025 at 07:12:46 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 at 6pm I'll be representing D as a panelist.

 Details:

 https://nwcpp.org/

 "This month we will be hosting a joint meetup with the Rust 
 User Group to discuss a breadth of programming languages with a 
 panel of experts. In this talk we will compare and contrast: D, 



In case somebody will say that "GC is slow"
https://github.com/jinyus/related_post_gen
Jul 17
next sibling parent Bruce Carneal <bcarneal gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 17 July 2025 at 08:30:01 UTC, Serg Gini wrote:

 On Thursday, 17 July 2025 at 07:12:46 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 at 6pm I'll be representing D as a panelist.

 Details:

 https://nwcpp.org/

 "This month we will be hosting a joint meetup with the Rust 
 User Group to discuss a breadth of programming languages with 
 a panel of experts. In this talk we will compare and contrast: 



 In case somebody will say that "GC is slow"
 https://github.com/jinyus/related_post_gen


I plan on being there.  With some luck I'll be able to compare 
notes with other related_post_gen authors.  That's not likely but 
it would be a happy surprise.

It's always fun to talk about performance and the ease 
(difficulty) with which you got there.

Should be a fun meetup.
Jul 17
prev sibling parent reply Bienlein <ffm2002 web.de> writes:
On Thursday, 17 July 2025 at 08:30:01 UTC, Serg Gini wrote:

 On Thursday, 17 July 2025 at 07:12:46 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 at 6pm I'll be representing D as a panelist.

 Details:

 https://nwcpp.org/

 "This month we will be hosting a joint meetup with the Rust 
 User Group to discuss a breadth of programming languages with 
 a panel of experts. In this talk we will compare and contrast: 



 In case somebody will say that "GC is slow"
 https://github.com/jinyus/related_post_gen


I don't want to be negative, just in order to remain factual: I 
don't see in what way this related_post_gen benchmark causes load 
on the GC. Also, the results don't list memory usage which 
renders it almost useless as a GC benchmark.

The binarytrees benchmark on 
https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/ is a good 
test for the GC. I'm aware of the discussion that this site to 
some extend does not compare the same things in their 
implementation of the respective programming languages. But it is 
quite striking to see that the D GC consumes a multiple of the 
memory some other GCes language like Crystal consumes:

https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/d-vs-crystal

Same picture wehen you compare D with Go or Java:

https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/d-vs-go
https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/d-vs-java

For the binarytrees benchmark you can see that the other 
languages must have a more efficient GC (cpu time lower, memory 
consumption lower ot both). In case of Java and Go that is 
acceptable to me. Both languages are being backed by multi 
billion companies and have very sophisticated GCs. But Crystal is 
a hobbyist open source language much simpler than D and its GC 
seem to perform much better.
Aug 07
next sibling parent Serg Gini <kornburn yandex.ru> writes:
On Thursday, 7 August 2025 at 10:10:05 UTC, Bienlein wrote:

 On Thursday, 17 July 2025 at 08:30:01 UTC, Serg Gini wrote:

 On Thursday, 17 July 2025 at 07:12:46 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 at 6pm I'll be representing D as a panelist.

 Details:

 https://nwcpp.org/

 "This month we will be hosting a joint meetup with the Rust 
 User Group to discuss a breadth of programming languages with 
 a panel of experts. In this talk we will compare and 



 In case somebody will say that "GC is slow"
 https://github.com/jinyus/related_post_gen


 I don't want to be negative, just in order to remain factual: I 
 don't see in what way this related_post_gen benchmark causes 
 load on the GC. Also, the results don't list memory usage which 
 renders it almost useless as a GC benchmark.


Hi there. This message didn't mean that this benchmark is a 
proper GC load.
But it is the response to some group of people that are saying 
"This language has GC - it's slow. I don't want to use it".
So the point was that even the language with GC can be fast. If 
you use proper memory management techniques or in some tasks 
where memory is less important.


 The binarytrees benchmark on 
 https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/ is a good 
 test for the GC. I'm aware of the discussion that this site to 
 some extend does not compare the same things in their 
 implementation of the respective programming languages. But it 
 is quite striking to see that the D GC consumes a multiple of 
 the memory some other GCes language like Crystal consumes:

 https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/d-vs-crystal

 Same picture wehen you compare D with Go or Java:

 https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/d-vs-go
 https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/d-vs-java

 For the binarytrees benchmark you can see that the other 
 languages must have a more efficient GC (cpu time lower, memory 
 consumption lower ot both). In case of Java and Go that is 
 acceptable to me. Both languages are being backed by multi 
 billion companies and have very sophisticated GCs. But Crystal 
 is a hobbyist open source language much simpler than D and its 
 GC seem to perform much better.


Ok now about this code.
General rule - always compare code not only results.

D code for some slight improvements in performance is adding 
special rule to not grab garbage that lower than 300 Mb.
Without this GC setting the memory consumption will drop to 60-70 
Mb.

D's GC also has some other settings that can be tuned for better 
results.

Also different languages have different default conditions. For 

which helps them to have better results on such GC-stressful 
tasks.

Also keep in mind, that this website is prohibiting direct use of 
Arenas, while some languages are using them internally.
All these tradeoffs of internal implementations can help them to 
have higher values in some tasks (like binarytrees problem), but 
at the same time show worse results in other tasks.

And last, but not least there are of course other ways to solve 
this problem.

https://github.com/BinaryTrees
You can find D solution that should outperform the one that 
available in programming-benchmark-game.
They are just not in scope of the comparison. But for real 
problem - you are not locked withing "standard GC solution"
Aug 07
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Languages like Java only do allocation on the GC. GC is very heavily used by 
Java programs. This makes the use of "write gates" practical.

D programs tend to only lightly use GC, and using "write gates" would speed up 
the GC collection cycle, but it would drastically slow down the rest of the
code.

It's all tradeoffs.
Aug 07
prev sibling next sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=C3=87ehreli?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:
On 7/17/25 12:12 AM, Walter Bright wrote:

 at 6pm I'll be representing D as a panelist.
 
 Details:
 
 https://nwcpp.org/
 
 "This month we will be hosting a joint meetup with the Rust User Group 
 to discuss a breadth of programming languages with a panel of experts. 

 and Mojo."


Wow! I am planning to join online.

One strong point for me is the practicality of a programming language. 
It's great if it helps me achieve things without my working for the 
language.

Ali
Jul 17
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 7/17/2025 10:04 AM, Ali Çehreli wrote:

 Wow! I am planning to join online.


I was listening to the voice of a remote attendee asking questions, and I 
thought: Hey! That sounds just like Ali!

Glad you were there!
Jul 25
parent =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=C3=87ehreli?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:
On 7/25/25 4:38 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 7/17/2025 10:04 AM, Ali Çehreli wrote:

 Wow! I am planning to join online.


 
 I was listening to the voice of a remote attendee asking questions, and 
 I thought: Hey! That sounds just like Ali!
 
 Glad you were there!
 


I can't believe C++ was explained as moderately easy to learn. (I don't 
remember exact wording now.) There are smart people out there! ;)

Ali
Jul 25
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Gregor =?UTF-8?B?TcO8Y2ts?= <gregormueckl gmx.de> writes:
On Thursday, 17 July 2025 at 07:12:46 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 at 6pm I'll be representing D as a panelist.

 Details:

 https://nwcpp.org/

 "This month we will be hosting a joint meetup with the Rust 
 User Group to discuss a breadth of programming languages with a 
 panel of experts. In this talk we will compare and contrast: D, 



This sounds like an interesting nwcpp meetup! Do I have to RSVP 
for in person attendance?
Jul 17
next sibling parent =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=C3=87ehreli?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:
On 7/17/25 1:51 PM, Gregor Mückl wrote:


 This sounds like an interesting nwcpp meetup! Do I have to RSVP for in 
 person attendance?


Since "In Person" attendance lists just the address, my guess is no RSVP 
is needed. I like this old school style like when my friends and I used 
to run the meetings in Silicon Valley before people who wanted to use 
Meetup appeared.

Ali
Jul 17
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 7/17/2025 1:51 PM, Gregor Mückl wrote:

 This sounds like an interesting nwcpp meetup! Do I have to RSVP for in person 
 attendance?


Nah, people just show up. I often bring friends with me.
Jul 25
prev sibling parent reply Serg Gini <kornburn yandex.ru> writes:
On Thursday, 17 July 2025 at 07:12:46 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 at 6pm I'll be representing D as a panelist.

 Details:

 https://nwcpp.org/

 "This month we will be hosting a joint meetup with the Rust 
 User Group to discuss a breadth of programming languages with a 
 panel of experts. In this talk we will compare and contrast: D, 



If there was a recording and they share it somewhere - please 
share the link here as well
Jul 17
parent reply ShadoLight <ettienne.gilbert gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 18 July 2025 at 06:45:00 UTC, Serg Gini wrote:

 On Thursday, 17 July 2025 at 07:12:46 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 at 6pm I'll be representing D as a panelist.

 Details:

 https://nwcpp.org/

 "This month we will be hosting a joint meetup with the Rust 
 User Group to discuss a breadth of programming languages with 
 a panel of experts. In this talk we will compare and contrast: 



 If there was a recording and they share it somewhere - please 
 share the link here as well


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN8FNGGwGPw
Jul 23
parent matheus <matheus gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 23 July 2025 at 12:20:58 UTC, ShadoLight wrote:

 ...
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN8FNGGwGPw


I watched but and I ended up with questions:

1) Why the title is Rust & NWC++? (There was other languages in 
this same panel as well).

2) What happened to Walter? (He was talking then it was suddenly 
over).

3) Minor thing, but what about this microsoft conduct to 
communicate online?

Matheus.
Jul 23