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digitalmars.D.announce - Four new committers on github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot,

reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
Hello everyone,


I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our project on 
github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers.

Lots of cool things are happening nowadays in D, what with DConf gearing 
up, the rise of private and corporate use, and the swelling of 
contributions. Yet we should see those as mere stepping stones toward 
much bigger destinations.

Short term, we need to improve process to the point where we can 
successfully "drain" contributions from the community, and scale up 
organizationally so we could absorb 10x and 100x more. There are 158 
pull requests for all components combined (http://goo.gl/0Ar7b), most or 
all written by highly talented and motivated people. It is key to 
improve our ability to absorb these contributions and attract more of such.

That's in the short term. On a longer horizon, we are now at a point 
where many programmers have heard of D, and fortunately past the entire 
"what's the deal with tango and phobos" morass. The strategic item to 
work on now is to improve the quality of the language definition and the 
implementation of the reference front-end. The word on the street is 
that D is okay for the straight stuff, but fuzzy at the corners if you 
get into the esoteric. And we won't make it big for being as good as the 
"straight stuff" as anyone else (though that's a precondition), but by 
consistently showing that the differential features of D are delivering 
big time.

So quality is the keyword to live by. And I think by adding four 
high-octane committers to the team we're taking a step in the right 
direction. Please join me in congratulating them!


Thanks,

Andrei
Mar 07 2013
next sibling parent reply "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Thursday, 7 March 2013 at 20:55:57 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our 
 project on github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and 
 rainers.


…and in case you are now wondering who the one with the strange 
nick name is, that's me.

Looking forward to helping out with giving the numerous 
high-quality contributions currently in the queue the amount of 
attention they deserve!

David
Mar 07 2013
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 3/7/2013 1:23 PM, David Nadlinger wrote:

 On Thursday, 7 March 2013 at 20:55:57 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our project on github:
 AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers.


 …and in case you are now wondering who the one with the strange nick name is,
 that's me.


I would prefer it if you changed your nick so (at least I) can remember who is 
who :-)




 Looking forward to helping out with giving the numerous high-quality
 contributions currently in the queue the amount of attention they deserve!


+1
Mar 07 2013
parent "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Thursday, 7 March 2013 at 22:26:23 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 3/7/2013 1:23 PM, David Nadlinger wrote:

 …and in case you are now wondering who the one with the 
 strange nick name is,
 that's me.


 I would prefer it if you changed your nick so (at least I) can 
 remember who is who :-)


I guess it counts as grandfathered in by now, the account exists 
since 2008. ;)

David
Mar 07 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 3/7/13, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 Hello everyone,


 I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our project on
 github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers.


Excellent! Thanks for adding me and the other active committers to the crew.

P.S. apparently we have to click the "publicize membership" button to
appear on the team lists:
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language?tab=members

Anyway it's getting exciting, the D Team is growing fast.
Mar 07 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 3/7/13, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> wrote:

 Anyway it's getting exciting, the D Team is growing fast.


Also some fun (if maybe not 100% accurate) statistics here:
http://www.ohloh.net/p/dmd/factoids

See the bottom of the page for various factoids. Apparently we're in
the top 2% of teams by some statistic.
Mar 07 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Leandro Lucarella <luca llucax.com.ar> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu, el  7 de March a las 15:55 me escribiste:

 Hello everyone,
 
 I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our project on
 github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers.


Is nice to see the 2 main contributors of the 2 other compiler
implementations with some official status!

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (AKA luca)                     http://llucax.com.ar/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oiganmen ñatos de corazón, es más posible que un potus florezca en
primavera a que un ángel pase con una remera.
	-- Peperino Pómoro
Mar 07 2013
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 3/7/2013 3:55 PM, Leandro Lucarella wrote:

 Is nice to see the 2 main contributors of the 2 other compiler
 implementations with some official status!


It's hard to think of someone having better credentials!
Mar 07 2013
parent reply Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> writes:
On 8 March 2013 03:27, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 On 3/7/2013 3:55 PM, Leandro Lucarella wrote:


 Is nice to see the 2 main contributors of the 2 other compiler
 implementations with some official status!


 It's hard to think of someone having better credentials!


With a status of "His Honor the GNU D Compiler Guru"  :o)


-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';
Mar 08 2013
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 3/8/2013 1:49 AM, Iain Buclaw wrote:

 With a status of "His Honor the GNU D Compiler Guru"  :o)


Yes, your Worship!
Mar 08 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2013-03-07 21:55, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our project on
 github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers.


This is great.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Mar 07 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> writes:
08-Mar-2013 00:55, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:

 Hello everyone,


 I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our project on
 github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers.


Congrats guys!


 Lots of cool things are happening nowadays in D, what with DConf gearing
 up, the rise of private and corporate use, and the swelling of
 contributions. Yet we should see those as mere stepping stones toward
 much bigger destinations.

 Short term, we need to improve process to the point where we can
 successfully "drain" contributions from the community, and scale up
 organizationally so we could absorb 10x and 100x more. There are 158
 pull requests for all components combined (http://goo.gl/0Ar7b), most or
 all written by highly talented and motivated people. It is key to
 improve our ability to absorb these contributions and attract more of such.


There is got to be more effective process to merge stuff. Current 
situation involves ping-pong between commiter/reviewer and contributor 
on every minor nit there is. That basically involves reviewing the same 
exact code few times over as cleanup arrives some days later. And even 
when contributor think he did cleanup something, he/she may as well miss 
what's the deal and the cycle repeats.

Instead it's definitely possible for committer to checkout the pull, do 
an extra cleanup commit (with automatic tool possibly, like detab/toln 
and I'd love to see official "indent" for D) and push it to the main 
repo. (Or squash the commits. This doesn't cancel out reviewing anything 
non-trivial by at least 2 persons.)


 That's in the short term. On a longer horizon, we are now at a point
 where many programmers have heard of D, and fortunately past the entire
 "what's the deal with tango and phobos" morass. The strategic item to
 work on now is to improve the quality of the language definition and the
 implementation of the reference front-end. The word on the street is
 that D is okay for the straight stuff, but fuzzy at the corners if you
 get into the esoteric. And we won't make it big for being as good as the
 "straight stuff" as anyone else (though that's a precondition), but by
 consistently showing that the differential features of D are delivering
 big time.

 So quality is the keyword to live by. And I think by adding four
 high-octane committers to the team we're taking a step in the right
 direction. Please join me in congratulating them!


 Thanks,

 Andrei



-- 
Dmitry Olshansky
Mar 08 2013
next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/8/13 3:33 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 There is got to be more effective process to merge stuff. Current
 situation involves ping-pong between commiter/reviewer and contributor
 on every minor nit there is. That basically involves reviewing the same
 exact code few times over as cleanup arrives some days later. And even
 when contributor think he did cleanup something, he/she may as well miss
 what's the deal and the cycle repeats.

 Instead it's definitely possible for committer to checkout the pull, do
 an extra cleanup commit (with automatic tool possibly, like detab/toln
 and I'd love to see official "indent" for D) and push it to the main
 repo. (Or squash the commits. This doesn't cancel out reviewing anything
 non-trivial by at least 2 persons.)


We could experiment with this, but I'm skeptical. At Facebook we have 
that option (called "commandeering" a revision) but it's very rarely used.

One issue that I do think is holding us back is the diff viewer. 
Phabricator has a great one (side by side, not interleaved), and it 
would be great if we could have the same. One possibility would be to 
integrate smoothly with meld.


Andrei
Mar 08 2013
next sibling parent "Tobias Pankrath" <tobias pankrath.net> writes:
On Friday, 8 March 2013 at 12:58:56 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 3/8/13 3:33 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 There is got to be more effective process to merge stuff. 
 Current
 situation involves ping-pong between commiter/reviewer and 
 contributor
 on every minor nit there is. That basically involves reviewing 
 the same
 exact code few times over as cleanup arrives some days later. 
 And even
 when contributor think he did cleanup something, he/she may as 
 well miss
 what's the deal and the cycle repeats.

 Instead it's definitely possible for committer to checkout the 
 pull, do
 an extra cleanup commit (with automatic tool possibly, like 
 detab/toln
 and I'd love to see official "indent" for D) and push it to 
 the main
 repo. (Or squash the commits. This doesn't cancel out 
 reviewing anything
 non-trivial by at least 2 persons.)


 We could experiment with this, but I'm skeptical. At Facebook 
 we have that option (called "commandeering" a revision) but 
 it's very rarely used.

 One issue that I do think is holding us back is the diff 
 viewer. Phabricator has a great one (side by side, not 
 interleaved), and it would be great if we could have the same. 
 One possibility would be to integrate smoothly with meld.


 Andrei


git difftool?
Mar 08 2013
prev sibling parent reply Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> writes:
08-Mar-2013 16:58, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:

 On 3/8/13 3:33 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 There is got to be more effective process to merge stuff. Current
 situation involves ping-pong between commiter/reviewer and contributor
 on every minor nit there is. That basically involves reviewing the same
 exact code few times over as cleanup arrives some days later. And even
 when contributor think he did cleanup something, he/she may as well miss
 what's the deal and the cycle repeats.

 Instead it's definitely possible for committer to checkout the pull, do
 an extra cleanup commit (with automatic tool possibly, like detab/toln
 and I'd love to see official "indent" for D) and push it to the main
 repo. (Or squash the commits. This doesn't cancel out reviewing anything
 non-trivial by at least 2 persons.)


 We could experiment with this, but I'm skeptical. At Facebook we have
 that option (called "commandeering" a revision) but it's very rarely used.


I think the skepticism is misplaced. Of course, inside of any large 
organization there is generally some coding culture (style guide, strict 
rules etc.) that one may expect to be followed. Recalling your comment 
on e.g. 80-colum as a hard limit enforced by the commit hook and such, I 
understand that at Facebook you don't even have to see these minor flaws 
at all.

The above is not the case in the highly scattered D community. Above all 
the person you nag about a misplaced whitespace of something like that 
most definitely could have completely different timezone. Even worse 
he/she may have a couple of deadlines to meet, be traveling over sea, 
has a sick dog to treat or whatever other urgent things to attend to. 
Even under normal conditions I expect no less then 8 hours for a random 
comment to penetrate.


 One issue that I do think is holding us back is the diff viewer.
 Phabricator has a great one (side by side, not interleaved), and it
 would be great if we could have the same. One possibility would be to
 integrate smoothly with meld.


Having a better tool then Github's online diff would be nice if that 
said tool could be integrated somewhere close to github's pull view. 
Just like say pull tester is.

Otherwise setting up a script on a local machine that grabs few latest 
pulls and then cycles through them with git difftool would work. And 
meld works with git.


-- 
Dmitry Olshansky
Mar 08 2013
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/8/13 10:53 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 I think the skepticism is misplaced.


Feel free to experiment with it. The problem with this approach is 
people will post increasingly sloppy code on the account that reviewers 
must fix it. I'm glad we're well past the point where people shove 
essentially unfinished work with the subtext "well here's as far as I 
got, feel free to take it over from here".

At the level of professionalism and commitment necessary for 
contributing to D, I don't think asking for crisp diffs is much of a drag.

I won't reply to this any further. As long as it's just a hypothesis, 
arguments pro and con may go on forever. Again, experiment with it; if 
successful, then we can adopt it.

BTW ironically only today I've done such a thing: 
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/pull/297. 
The change was minor; but by doing that systematically we create 
precedent for less parallelization of work and more work for bottleneck 
contributors.


Andrei
Mar 08 2013
parent reply Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> writes:
08-Mar-2013 20:19, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:

 On 3/8/13 10:53 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 I think the skepticism is misplaced.


 Feel free to experiment with it.


AFAIK I can't if we are speaking of dmd/druntime/phobos/etc ...


 The problem with this approach is
 people will post increasingly sloppy code on the account that reviewers
 must fix it. I'm glad we're well past the point where people shove
 essentially unfinished work with the subtext "well here's as far as I
 got, feel free to take it over from here".

 At the level of professionalism and commitment necessary for
 contributing to D, I don't think asking for crisp diffs is much of a drag.

 I won't reply to this any further. As long as it's just a hypothesis,
 arguments pro and con may go on forever. Again, experiment with it; if
 successful, then we can adopt it.


At the moment I could just suggest for others to try which I did. I 
guess time will tell if it's viable or not.

[snip]
-- 
Dmitry Olshansky
Mar 08 2013
parent "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net> writes:
On Friday, 8 March 2013 at 17:09:28 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 08-Mar-2013 20:19, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:

 On 3/8/13 10:53 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 I think the skepticism is misplaced.


 Feel free to experiment with it.


 AFAIK I can't if we are speaking of dmd/druntime/phobos/etc ...


You could send a pull request to the branch for the submitter's 
pull request ;)
Mar 08 2013
prev sibling parent reply Leandro Lucarella <luca llucax.com.ar> writes:
Dmitry Olshansky, el  8 de March a las 12:33 me escribiste:

 There is got to be more effective process to merge stuff. Current
 situation involves ping-pong between commiter/reviewer and
 contributor on every minor nit there is. That basically involves
 reviewing the same exact code few times over as cleanup arrives some
 days later. And even when contributor think he did cleanup
 something, he/she may as well miss what's the deal and the cycle
 repeats.
 
 Instead it's definitely possible for committer to checkout the pull,
 do an extra cleanup commit (with automatic tool possibly, like
 detab/toln and I'd love to see official "indent" for D) and push it
 to the main repo. (Or squash the commits. This doesn't cancel out
 reviewing anything non-trivial by at least 2 persons.)


I think this is the wrong approach. People need to learn how to do
a proper pull request, you can't get the committers doing cleaning work
after contributors. Is a learning process, once you get it right, your
pull requests shouldn't too many cycles to get accepted.

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (AKA luca)                     http://llucax.com.ar/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Algún día los libros desterrarán a la radio y el hombre descubrirá el
oculto poder del Amargo Serrano.
	-- Ricardo Vaporeso. El Bolsón, 1909.
Mar 08 2013
parent reply Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> writes:
08-Mar-2013 18:32, Leandro Lucarella пишет:

 Dmitry Olshansky, el  8 de March a las 12:33 me escribiste:

 There is got to be more effective process to merge stuff. Current
 situation involves ping-pong between commiter/reviewer and
 contributor on every minor nit there is. That basically involves
 reviewing the same exact code few times over as cleanup arrives some
 days later. And even when contributor think he did cleanup
 something, he/she may as well miss what's the deal and the cycle
 repeats.

 Instead it's definitely possible for committer to checkout the pull,
 do an extra cleanup commit (with automatic tool possibly, like
 detab/toln and I'd love to see official "indent" for D) and push it
 to the main repo. (Or squash the commits. This doesn't cancel out
 reviewing anything non-trivial by at least 2 persons.)


 I think this is the wrong approach. People need to learn how to do
 a proper pull request, you can't get the committers doing cleaning work
 after contributors. Is a learning process, once you get it right, your
 pull requests shouldn't too many cycles to get accepted.


I would have agreed if it were not for these things:

a) The learning process is an evolution of knowledge, thus you've got to 
be nice to newbies. This means trying to not overwhelm them with minor 
details, fascist style requirements and whatnot on the first pulls. (+ 
learn by example - show the commit that cleans things up and insist on 
following conventions etc. next time around)

b) The time the pull takes to be accepted is no less then one month 
unless it gets pulled in during the first few days. Typical RTT between 
committer-contributor of up to one-two week(s).

c) Committer already spent as much (if not more) time by looking through 
the pull. Doing a trivial cleanup after that should be a semi-automated 
five minute job.

-- 
Dmitry Olshansky
Mar 08 2013
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 3/8/2013 7:31 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 c) Committer already spent as much (if not more) time by looking through the
 pull. Doing a trivial cleanup after that should be a semi-automated five minute
 job.


It doesn't scale to have the committers be expected to fix up the pull requests.
Mar 08 2013
parent "John Colvin" <john.loughran.colvin gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 8 March 2013 at 19:17:33 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 3/8/2013 7:31 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 c) Committer already spent as much (if not more) time by 
 looking through the
 pull. Doing a trivial cleanup after that should be a 
 semi-automated five minute
 job.


 It doesn't scale to have the committers be expected to fix up 
 the pull requests.


I don't think it should be expected, but in many cases you're 
talking an extra 60 seconds work from a committer vs many days in 
turnaround time.
Mar 08 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 3/7/13, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our project on
 github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers.


Can we get added to the dmd-internals group? My emails always get
bounced and I have to wait for someone to approve them.
Mar 09 2013
parent reply Leandro Lucarella <luca llucax.com.ar> writes:
Andrej Mitrovic, el  9 de March a las 18:13 me escribiste:

 On 3/7/13, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our project on
 github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers.


 
 Can we get added to the dmd-internals group? My emails always get
 bounced and I have to wait for someone to approve them.


Anyone can subscribe:
http://lists.puremagic.com/mailman/listinfo/dmd-internals

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (AKA luca)                     http://llucax.com.ar/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Me encanta el éxito; por eso prefiero el estado de progreso constante,
con la meta al frente y no atrás.
	-- Ricardo Vaporeso. Punta del Este, Enero de 1918.
Mar 09 2013
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 3/9/2013 10:34 AM, Leandro Lucarella wrote:

 Anyone can subscribe:


Dang! The secret is out!
Mar 10 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On 3/9/2013 9:13 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

 On 3/7/13, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 I'm happy to announce we have four new committers to our project on
 github: AndrejMitrovic, ibuclaw, klickverbot, and rainers.


 
 Can we get added to the dmd-internals group? My emails always get
 bounced and I have to wait for someone to approve them.
 


You just need to subscribe to the mailing list.

http://lists.puremagic.com/
Mar 09 2013
prev sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 3/9/13, Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> wrote:

 You just need to subscribe to the mailing list.


On 3/9/13, Leandro Lucarella <luca llucax.com.ar> wrote:

 Anyone can subscribe:
 http://lists.puremagic.com/mailman/listinfo/dmd-internals


Ah I didn't realize I wasn't subscribed, thanks guys.
Mar 09 2013