• Manfred Nowak (3/3) Jan 08 2008 Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?
• Robert Fraser (12/17) Jan 08 2008 As a current CS undergrad, I can say that I learned 90% of what I know
• Adil (2/19) Jan 09 2008
• Ary Borenszweig (2/26) Jan 09 2008
• Manfred Nowak (3/4) Jan 09 2008 I have rechecked the link. No problems here.
• Adil (6/10) Jan 09 2008 I'm getting a :
• Sean Kelly (4/19) Jan 09 2008 Try:
• Adil (6/23) Jan 09 2008 Nope. :
• Sean Kelly (3/33) Jan 09 2008 It's a military IP address, perhaps your firewall has it blocked?
• Adil (7/37) Jan 09 2008 Yes, youre right. Although other .mil addresses seem to be working. Is t...
• Bill Baxter (3/47) Jan 09 2008 Sweet! CS323 ("Systems programming") was a great course.

Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com> writes:

Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?

http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html

-manfred

Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:

Manfred Nowak wrote:
 Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?
 
 http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html
 
 -manfred

As a current CS undergrad, I can say that I learned 90% of what I know 
about PROGRAMMING outside of class (either on an internship, an 
open-source project, or just messing around and being nerdy), and the 
other 10% from two of my classes (one high school AP class that focused 
on data structures, and one class on shell scripting and practical 
computer skills).

I think Java isn't necessarily a bad teaching tool for the reasons they 
mention, but I think a lower-level imperative language should come 
first. Java should be introduced after Smalltalk or something to show 
many of the advantages of safe, happy, VM programming and why 
object-oriented programming leads to good software design.

Adil <adil.baig aidezigns.com> writes:

The link doesnt work

Robert Fraser wrote:
 Manfred Nowak wrote:
 Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?

 http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html

 -manfred

 As a current CS undergrad, I can say that I learned 90% of what I know 
 about PROGRAMMING outside of class (either on an internship, an 
 open-source project, or just messing around and being nerdy), and the 
 other 10% from two of my classes (one high school AP class that 
 focused on data structures, and one class on shell scripting and 
 practical computer skills).

 I think Java isn't necessarily a bad teaching tool for the reasons 
 they mention, but I think a lower-level imperative language should 
 come first. Java should be introduced after Smalltalk or something to 
 show many of the advantages of safe, happy, VM programming and why 
 object-oriented programming leads to good software design.

Ary Borenszweig <ary esperanto.org.ar> writes:

Neither for me. :(

Adil wrote:
 The link doesnt work
 
 Robert Fraser wrote:
 Manfred Nowak wrote:
 Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?

 http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html

 -manfred

 As a current CS undergrad, I can say that I learned 90% of what I know 
 about PROGRAMMING outside of class (either on an internship, an 
 open-source project, or just messing around and being nerdy), and the 
 other 10% from two of my classes (one high school AP class that 
 focused on data structures, and one class on shell scripting and 
 practical computer skills).

 I think Java isn't necessarily a bad teaching tool for the reasons 
 they mention, but I think a lower-level imperative language should 
 come first. Java should be introduced after Smalltalk or something to 
 show many of the advantages of safe, happy, VM programming and why 
 object-oriented programming leads to good software design.

Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com> writes:

Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

I have rechecked the link. No problems here.

-manfred

Adil <adil.baig aidezigns.com> writes:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com>  
wrote:

 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

 I have rechecked the link. No problems here.

 -manfred

I'm getting a :

Network Error (dns_server_failure)

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:

Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com> 
 wrote:
 
 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

 I have rechecked the link. No problems here.

 -manfred

 
 I'm getting a :
 
 Network Error (dns_server_failure)

Try:

http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html


Sean

Adil <adil.baig aidezigns.com> writes:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:

 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com>  
 wrote:

 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

 I have rechecked the link. No problems here.

 -manfred

  I'm getting a :
  Network Error (dns_server_failure)

 Try:

 http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html


 Sean

Nope. :

Network Error (tcp_error)

A communication error occurred: ""


-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:

Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:
 
 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak 
 <svv1999 hotmail.com> wrote:

 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

 I have rechecked the link. No problems here.

 -manfred

  I'm getting a :
  Network Error (dns_server_failure)

 Try:

 http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html


 Sean

 
 Nope. :
 
 Network Error (tcp_error)
 
 A communication error occurred: ""

It's a military IP address, perhaps your firewall has it blocked?


Sean

Adil <adil.baig aidezigns.com> writes:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:44:22 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:

 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:

 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak  
 <svv1999 hotmail.com> wrote:

 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

 I have rechecked the link. No problems here.

 -manfred

  I'm getting a :
  Network Error (dns_server_failure)

 Try:

 http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html


 Sean

  Nope. :
  Network Error (tcp_error)
  A communication error occurred: ""

 It's a military IP address, perhaps your firewall has it blocked?


 Sean

Yes, youre right. Although other .mil addresses seem to be working. Is the  
article posted somewhere else as well?

There's another articles that seems to be along the same lines :

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/12/03.html

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:

Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:44:22 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:
 
 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:

 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak 
 <svv1999 hotmail.com> wrote:

 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

 I have rechecked the link. No problems here.

 -manfred

  I'm getting a :
  Network Error (dns_server_failure)

 Try:

 http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html


 Sean

  Nope. :
  Network Error (tcp_error)
  A communication error occurred: ""

 It's a military IP address, perhaps your firewall has it blocked?


 Sean

 
 Yes, youre right. Although other .mil addresses seem to be working. Is 
 the article posted somewhere else as well?
 
 There's another articles that seems to be along the same lines :
 
 http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/12/03.html
 

Sweet!  CS323 ("Systems programming") was a great course.

--bb