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digitalmars.D.announce - Deadlock Screenshot for Walter

reply Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
... and whoever else is interested :]

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2967/anotherscraa8.jpg


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 08 2007
next sibling parent Georg Wrede <georg nospam.org> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 ... and whoever else is interested :]
 
 http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2967/anotherscraa8.jpg


Cool!

Seriously cool. I think Walter has to now show two slides!!
May 09 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent Pragma <ericanderton yahoo.removeme.com> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 ... and whoever else is interested :]
 
 http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2967/anotherscraa8.jpg
 
 


Nice lighting.  If you kept the physics support from the demo you gave me a
while back, then you can call me doubly 
impressed!

-- 
- EricAnderton at yahoo
May 09 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 ... and whoever else is interested :]
 
 http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2967/anotherscraa8.jpg


Thank you. I'll be showing it off!
May 09 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Charlie <charlie.fats gmail.com> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 ... and whoever else is interested :]
 
 http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2967/anotherscraa8.jpg
 
 


Lets see some more!
May 10 2007
parent reply Clay Smith <clayasaurus gmail.com> writes:
Charlie wrote:

 Tom S wrote:

 ... and whoever else is interested :]

 http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2967/anotherscraa8.jpg


 
 Lets see some more!


Just sign up for beta

http://www.team0xf.com/
May 10 2007
parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Clay Smith wrote:

 Charlie wrote:

 Tom S wrote:

 ... and whoever else is interested :]

 http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2967/anotherscraa8.jpg


 Lets see some more!


 
 Just sign up for beta
 
 http://www.team0xf.com/


Site seems dead.

--bb
May 10 2007
parent Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 Site seems dead.


Weird... I haven't noticed any downtime. I'm sure it will be up the next 
time you try it ;)


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 12 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply david <ta-nospam-zz gmx.at> writes:
Tom S schrieb:

 .... and whoever else is interested :]
 
 http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2967/anotherscraa8.jpg
 
 


So tell us, how did the presentation go? :-)

david
May 10 2007
parent reply Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
david wrote:

 So tell us, how did the presentation go? :-)
 
 david


The presentation went really well :) IMHO, we crushed all the other 
teams in almost all aspects of the project. After the presentation, we 
received congrats from many folks from the univ, had numerous new 
beta-tester applications and lots of applause ;) Our project supervisor, 
Piotr Rosiak also received congrats from other supervisors, or so I heard.

In the end, it turned out that the jury didn't like computer games very 
much... Maths doctors & professors == bad jury for a game programming 
team. So we scored 2nd, after a project which basically combined some 
GPS stuff thru bluetooth and Google Maps... Which, according to 80% of 
my univ mates was... ridiculous.

I don't want to sound like bragging, but I can sincerely say that we 
created the best project, with lots of cutting edge programming, fine 
team management, lots of coffee, 70k LoC, 1100 svn revisions and 
eventually a really cool game. We only had about 20 minutes to present 
it though. Virtually no one from the jury even peeked at the code or 
understood what a 'shader' is or what Ageia PhysX does.

One of the best things about the presentation was that we bashed C++ and 
Java and got no strike-back from the C++ and Java zealots present in the 
audience, including the lecturers. We answered all questions we were 
given and certainly got some folks interested in the D language :)

Currently we're going to catch up on some other univ classes and once 
done with them, continue working on Deadlock, possibly in an expanded 
team, as the course no longer limits us to 5 students.


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 12 2007
next sibling parent reply Peter Modzelewski <peter.modzelewski gmail.com> writes:
Tom S napisa?(a):

 david wrote:

 So tell us, how did the presentation go? :-)

 david


 The presentation went really well :)


As I said many times before, our project, according to our univ 
environment, was *very* politically incorrect. We've decided to avoid 
all the standards to create a really good game and have lots of fun 
while creating it. This is a reward itself. As for the results, in a uni 
where a game about killing and drugs was greatly controversial, and jury 
seen no difference between writing a 3d engine from scratch and using 
Google Maps for presentation, I think the 2nd place is also a great 
success. We managed to create a project against nearly everyone and 
still be in the top 3.
Still, I'm a bit disappointed about the results, because when we 
received the applause and congrats from people, a shade of hope appeared 
that the jury would not be blind to such a reaction. Unfortunately - I 
was wrong. Anyway - The rewards for me are the new beta testers and 
opinions from people who really know something about coding. I hope 
other univs are more professionally directed. Here in Torun "politically 
right" is the most important thing.

Anyway, thx for your interest
KeYeR
May 12 2007
next sibling parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Peter Modzelewski wrote:

 Tom S napisa?(a):
  > david wrote:
  >> So tell us, how did the presentation go? :-)
  >>
  >> david
  >
  > The presentation went really well :)
 
 As I said many times before, our project, according to our univ 
 environment, was *very* politically incorrect. We've decided to avoid 
 all the standards to create a really good game and have lots of fun 
 while creating it. This is a reward itself. As for the results, in a uni 
 where a game about killing and drugs was greatly controversial, and jury 
 seen no difference between writing a 3d engine from scratch and using 
 Google Maps for presentation, I think the 2nd place is also a great 
 success. We managed to create a project against nearly everyone and 
 still be in the top 3.
 Still, I'm a bit disappointed about the results, because when we 
 received the applause and congrats from people, a shade of hope appeared 
 that the jury would not be blind to such a reaction. Unfortunately - I 
 was wrong. Anyway - The rewards for me are the new beta testers and 
 opinions from people who really know something about coding. I hope 
 other univs are more professionally directed. Here in Torun "politically 
 right" is the most important thing.
 
 Anyway, thx for your interest
 KeYeR


Sounds like you guys did a fantastic job.  At my grad school there was a 
game programming course one year, and the final projects were presented 
and judged.  There was one team that pretty much kicked everybody's 
butts there, and everybody oohed and awed about it.  But that didn't 
even look as nice as yours.  Three of the guys that were on that team 
now work at game companies, one works at a game /engine/ company, and 
the other works at NVIDIA.  So if gainful employ is your goal, I think 
your project will reward you far greater than any piddly 1st place prize 
from your Uni.

Congrats.

--bb
May 12 2007
next sibling parent reply Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 Sounds like you guys did a fantastic job.  At my grad school there was a 
 game programming course one year, and the final projects were presented 
 and judged.  There was one team that pretty much kicked everybody's 
 butts there, and everybody oohed and awed about it.  But that didn't 
 even look as nice as yours.  Three of the guys that were on that team 
 now work at game companies, one works at a game /engine/ company, and 
 the other works at NVIDIA.  So if gainful employ is your goal, I think 
 your project will reward you far greater than any piddly 1st place prize 
 from your Uni.
 
 Congrats.


Thanks a lot! That's one of the goals... If we don't find enough time to 
finish Deadlock due to the studies, it should be an awesome demo for a 
potential employer anyway :)


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 12 2007
parent reply bobef <asd asd.asd> writes:
Would you, guys, consider to release the source code? I am actually interested
in DDL. I see on the web site that you use DDL, which I need too, but I've
never managed to make even a "hello world" work correctly...


Tom S Wrote:


 Bill Baxter wrote:

 Sounds like you guys did a fantastic job.  At my grad school there was a 
 game programming course one year, and the final projects were presented 
 and judged.  There was one team that pretty much kicked everybody's 
 butts there, and everybody oohed and awed about it.  But that didn't 
 even look as nice as yours.  Three of the guys that were on that team 
 now work at game companies, one works at a game /engine/ company, and 
 the other works at NVIDIA.  So if gainful employ is your goal, I think 
 your project will reward you far greater than any piddly 1st place prize 
 from your Uni.
 
 Congrats.


 
 Thanks a lot! That's one of the goals... If we don't find enough time to 
 finish Deadlock due to the studies, it should be an awesome demo for a 
 potential employer anyway :)
 
 
 -- 
 Tomasz Stachowiak
 http://h3.team0xf.com/
 h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 13 2007
parent Pragma <ericanderton yahoo.removeme.com> writes:
bobef wrote:

 Would you, guys, consider to release the source code? I am actually interested
in DDL. I see on the web site that you use DDL, which I need too, but I've
never managed to make even a "hello world" work correctly...


Sorry to hear that bobef.  Actually, thanks to the Deadlock team, I have a slew
of patches to commit and am up to my 
eyeballs in working on Tango support.

While I can't address if they'll share or not, I will be announcing my work
here, as soon as I'm done upgrading the 
official lib.

-- 
- EricAnderton at yahoo
May 14 2007
prev sibling parent Peter Modzelewski <peter.modzelewski gmail.com> writes:
Bill Baxter napisa?(a):

 
 Sounds like you guys did a fantastic job.  At my grad school there was a 
 game programming course one year, and the final projects were presented 
 and judged.  There was one team that pretty much kicked everybody's 
 butts there, and everybody oohed and awed about it.  But that didn't 
 even look as nice as yours.  Three of the guys that were on that team 
 now work at game companies, one works at a game /engine/ company, and 
 the other works at NVIDIA.  So if gainful employ is your goal, I think 
 your project will reward you far greater than any piddly 1st place prize 
 from your Uni.
 
 Congrats.
 
 --bb


Thx for your kind words. I hope you're right. My personal goal will be 
to make Deadlock better and better anytime I have a spare moment. Still 
a little disappointment remains... In order to forget about it, I've 
just started coding a new autopatching system for Deadlock :P
May 12 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent Clay Smith <clayasaurus gmail.com> writes:
Peter Modzelewski wrote:

 Tom S napisa?(a):
  > david wrote:
  >> So tell us, how did the presentation go? :-)
  >>
  >> david
  >
  > The presentation went really well :)
 
 Here in Torun "politically 
 right" is the most important thing.


That's really too bad, I still think politically incorrectness should be 
a bonus ;) because of your courage over 'correct groupthink'

~ Clay
May 13 2007
prev sibling parent Chad J <gamerChad _spamIsBad_gmail.com> writes:
Peter Modzelewski wrote:

 Tom S napisa?(a):
  > david wrote:
  >> So tell us, how did the presentation go? :-)
  >>
  >> david
  >
  > The presentation went really well :)
 
 ...
 
 Anyway, thx for your interest
 KeYeR


Good to hear things went mostly excellent.  Congrats!
I like the backgroud story too.  A politically incorrect project... 
something that rubs the wrong people the wrong way, but undeniably kicks 
ass.  Overcoming adversity by placing second with hostile judges.  I 
like it.

Rock on.
May 15 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Pragma <ericanderton yahoo.removeme.com> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 david wrote:

 So tell us, how did the presentation go? :-)

 david


 
 The presentation went really well :) IMHO, we crushed all the other 
 teams in almost all aspects of the project. After the presentation, we 
 received congrats from many folks from the univ, had numerous new 
 beta-tester applications and lots of applause ;) Our project supervisor, 
 Piotr Rosiak also received congrats from other supervisors, or so I heard.
 
 In the end, it turned out that the jury didn't like computer games very 
 much... Maths doctors & professors == bad jury for a game programming 
 team. So we scored 2nd, after a project which basically combined some 
 GPS stuff thru bluetooth and Google Maps... Which, according to 80% of 
 my univ mates was... ridiculous.
 
 I don't want to sound like bragging, but I can sincerely say that we 
 created the best project, with lots of cutting edge programming, fine 
 team management, lots of coffee, 70k LoC, 1100 svn revisions and 
 eventually a really cool game. We only had about 20 minutes to present 
 it though. Virtually no one from the jury even peeked at the code or 
 understood what a 'shader' is or what Ageia PhysX does.
 
 One of the best things about the presentation was that we bashed C++ and 
 Java and got no strike-back from the C++ and Java zealots present in the 
 audience, including the lecturers. We answered all questions we were 
 given and certainly got some folks interested in the D language :)
 
 Currently we're going to catch up on some other univ classes and once 
 done with them, continue working on Deadlock, possibly in an expanded 
 team, as the course no longer limits us to 5 students.
 
 


Congrats!  I know you worked your ass off on this one.  Kudos.

-- 
- EricAnderton at yahoo
May 14 2007
parent reply davidb <ta-nospam-zz gmx.at> writes:
Pragma schrieb:

 Tom S wrote:

 david wrote:

 So tell us, how did the presentation go? :-)

 david


 The presentation went really well :) IMHO, we crushed all the other 
 teams in almost all aspects of the project. After the presentation, we 
 received congrats from many folks from the univ, had numerous new 
 beta-tester applications and lots of applause ;) Our project 
 supervisor, Piotr Rosiak also received congrats from other 
 supervisors, or so I heard.

 In the end, it turned out that the jury didn't like computer games 
 very much... Maths doctors & professors == bad jury for a game 
 programming team. So we scored 2nd, after a project which basically 
 combined some GPS stuff thru bluetooth and Google Maps... Which, 
 according to 80% of my univ mates was... ridiculous.

 I don't want to sound like bragging, but I can sincerely say that we 
 created the best project, with lots of cutting edge programming, fine 
 team management, lots of coffee, 70k LoC, 1100 svn revisions and 
 eventually a really cool game. We only had about 20 minutes to present 
 it though. Virtually no one from the jury even peeked at the code or 
 understood what a 'shader' is or what Ageia PhysX does.

 One of the best things about the presentation was that we bashed C++ 
 and Java and got no strike-back from the C++ and Java zealots present 
 in the audience, including the lecturers. We answered all questions we 
 were given and certainly got some folks interested in the D language :)

 Currently we're going to catch up on some other univ classes and once 
 done with them, continue working on Deadlock, possibly in an expanded 
 team, as the course no longer limits us to 5 students.


 
 Congrats!  I know you worked your ass off on this one.  Kudos.
 


Congratulations from me too, apart from all the other things
for a project this large the organization and getting all components
to work together had to be quite a piece of work, thumbs up!

david
May 14 2007
parent reply Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
bobef wrote:

 Would you, guys, consider to release the source code? I am actually 


interested in DDL. I see on the web site that you use DDL, which I need 
too, but I've never managed to make even a "hello world" work correctly...

Bad  news: We've decided not to release the code to the wide public.
Good news: Some programmers get access to the code, especially if they 
are D programmers that can help us / we can help them in some specific 
way / are simply nice fellows ;) I guess we could pin you to some of 
these categories since you need DDL and we need an in-game multimedia 
player ;) E-mail me with a login and password and we'll get you SVN 
access. You can find my mail e.g. on my site: http://h3.team0xf.com/


Clay Smith wrote:

 That's really too bad, I still think politically incorrectness should be
 a bonus ;) because of your courage over 'correct groupthink'


Haha, reminds me of 'You gotta fight!! For your right!! To paa-arty!' ;)


Pragma wrote:

 Congrats!  I know you worked your ass off on this one.  Kudos.


Thanks! Yea, that was half a year of really hard work. But hopefully 
gamedev is also fun, so I'd put another half a year into it without a 
frown :D Too bad there will be exams, tests and various nonsencial stuff 
at the univ shortly... On the other hand, there will also be Summer 
holidays.


davidb wrote:

 Congratulations from me too, apart from all the other things
 for a project this large the organization and getting all components
 to work together had to be quite a piece of work, thumbs up!


Thank you :) And indeed, connecting all the stuff together was the 
biggest riddle. I've learned a lot about design and team management 
thanks to Deadlock. It's larger than any other project any of us had 
worked before and it hasn't turned into an unmaintainable mess, which I 
think is a feat on its own ;)



Mess or not mess, we'll be doing some refactoring soon. Once the basics 
are in place, we'd like to concentrate on game logic. And to do so, we'd 
like to take a dynamic approach. Read: scripting. We'll be separating 
the engine from the game, cleaning stuff up and adding any missing 
functionality. Then we're going to add bindings to one or more scripting 
languages. Lua, Io and Squirrel seem to be OK. Yet another option is 
dynamic DDL re-compilation and linking. I guess we'll turn to it when 
the scripts need to be *really* fast.

<general NG query> If you know of any other scripting approaches / 
languages that would do a better or comparable job to what I briefly 
described, let us know! Note: I've looked at all the scripting languages 
listed at wikipedia and gamedev.net's 'Scripting and Mods' forum FAQ 
</general>

I'm also working on improving my GUI so I can start writing some editors 
for the game/engine. A visual 'graph-node-based' shader editor will 
probably come first.


Thanks for your interest in Deadlock!


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 14 2007
next sibling parent reply Charlie <charlie.fats gmail.com> writes:
 <general NG query> If you know of any other scripting approaches /
 languages that would do a better or comparable job to what I briefly
 described, let us know! Note: I've looked at all the scripting languages
 listed at wikipedia and gamedev.net's 'Scripting and Mods' forum FAQ
 </general>


Have you considered minid -> http://dsource.org/projects/minid ?

Charlie


Tom S wrote:

 bobef wrote:
  > Would you, guys, consider to release the source code? I am actually 
 interested in DDL. I see on the web site that you use DDL, which I need 
 too, but I've never managed to make even a "hello world" work correctly...
 
 Bad  news: We've decided not to release the code to the wide public.
 Good news: Some programmers get access to the code, especially if they 
 are D programmers that can help us / we can help them in some specific 
 way / are simply nice fellows ;) I guess we could pin you to some of 
 these categories since you need DDL and we need an in-game multimedia 
 player ;) E-mail me with a login and password and we'll get you SVN 
 access. You can find my mail e.g. on my site: http://h3.team0xf.com/
 
 
 Clay Smith wrote:
  > That's really too bad, I still think politically incorrectness should be
  > a bonus ;) because of your courage over 'correct groupthink'
 
 Haha, reminds me of 'You gotta fight!! For your right!! To paa-arty!' ;)
 
 
 Pragma wrote:
  > Congrats!  I know you worked your ass off on this one.  Kudos.
 
 Thanks! Yea, that was half a year of really hard work. But hopefully 
 gamedev is also fun, so I'd put another half a year into it without a 
 frown :D Too bad there will be exams, tests and various nonsencial stuff 
 at the univ shortly... On the other hand, there will also be Summer 
 holidays.
 
 
 davidb wrote:
  > Congratulations from me too, apart from all the other things
  > for a project this large the organization and getting all components
  > to work together had to be quite a piece of work, thumbs up!
 
 Thank you :) And indeed, connecting all the stuff together was the 
 biggest riddle. I've learned a lot about design and team management 
 thanks to Deadlock. It's larger than any other project any of us had 
 worked before and it hasn't turned into an unmaintainable mess, which I 
 think is a feat on its own ;)
 
 
 
 Mess or not mess, we'll be doing some refactoring soon. Once the basics 
 are in place, we'd like to concentrate on game logic. And to do so, we'd 
 like to take a dynamic approach. Read: scripting. We'll be separating 
 the engine from the game, cleaning stuff up and adding any missing 
 functionality. Then we're going to add bindings to one or more scripting 
 languages. Lua, Io and Squirrel seem to be OK. Yet another option is 
 dynamic DDL re-compilation and linking. I guess we'll turn to it when 
 the scripts need to be *really* fast.
 
 <general NG query> If you know of any other scripting approaches / 
 languages that would do a better or comparable job to what I briefly 
 described, let us know! Note: I've looked at all the scripting languages 
 listed at wikipedia and gamedev.net's 'Scripting and Mods' forum FAQ 
 </general>
 
 I'm also working on improving my GUI so I can start writing some editors 
 for the game/engine. A visual 'graph-node-based' shader editor will 
 probably come first.
 
 
 Thanks for your interest in Deadlock!
May 14 2007
parent reply Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
Charlie wrote:

  > <general NG query> If you know of any other scripting approaches /
  > languages that would do a better or comparable job to what I briefly
  > described, let us know! Note: I've looked at all the scripting languages
  > listed at wikipedia and gamedev.net's 'Scripting and Mods' forum FAQ
  > </general>
 
 Have you considered minid -> http://dsource.org/projects/minid ?


Dang! No :o  *runs quickly to dsource*  Thanks for the reminder :D


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 14 2007
next sibling parent Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 Charlie wrote:

  > <general NG query> If you know of any other scripting approaches /
  > languages that would do a better or comparable job to what I briefly
  > described, let us know! Note: I've looked at all the scripting 
 languages
  > listed at wikipedia and gamedev.net's 'Scripting and Mods' forum FAQ
  > </general>

 Have you considered minid -> http://dsource.org/projects/minid ?


 
 Dang! No :o  *runs quickly to dsource*  Thanks for the reminder :D


/me adds MiniD to the list of scripting languages to examine closely


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 14 2007
prev sibling parent reply Frits van Bommel <fvbommel REMwOVExCAPSs.nl> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 Charlie wrote:

  > <general NG query> If you know of any other scripting approaches /
  > languages that would do a better or comparable job to what I briefly
  > described, let us know! Note: I've looked at all the scripting 
 languages
  > listed at wikipedia and gamedev.net's 'Scripting and Mods' forum FAQ
  > </general>

 Have you considered minid -> http://dsource.org/projects/minid ?


 
 Dang! No :o  *runs quickly to dsource*  Thanks for the reminder :D


You also didn't mention Python. (+ Pyd wrapper from 
http://dsource.org/projects/pyd)
May 14 2007
parent reply Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
Frits van Bommel wrote:

 Tom S wrote:

 Charlie wrote:

  > <general NG query> If you know of any other scripting approaches /
  > languages that would do a better or comparable job to what I briefly
  > described, let us know! Note: I've looked at all the scripting 
 languages
  > listed at wikipedia and gamedev.net's 'Scripting and Mods' forum FAQ
  > </general>

 Have you considered minid -> http://dsource.org/projects/minid ?


 Dang! No :o  *runs quickly to dsource*  Thanks for the reminder :D


 
 You also didn't mention Python. (+ Pyd wrapper from 
 http://dsource.org/projects/pyd)


It was listed at wikipedia *g*

It's heavier than Lua and I don't know if it would offer anything more 
than Squirrel... It would surely introduce a different syntax, e.g. many 
people don't like the whitespace code grouping.

As for Pyd, I'm not sure how much we'd (ab)use it. If we make some 
bindings, they'll probably be done in such a way as to be able to use 
multiple scripting languages or mix them. So either our wrapper will use 
PyD, or we'll just go with the low level C API, *if* we decide to use 
Python.

If it turns out that a general binding for many scripting languages 
boils down to just a handful of templates, Python might be an option too :D


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 14 2007
next sibling parent Kirk McDonald <kirklin.mcdonald gmail.com> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 Frits van Bommel wrote:
 

 Tom S wrote:


 Charlie wrote:


  > <general NG query> If you know of any other scripting approaches /
  > languages that would do a better or comparable job to what I briefly
  > described, let us know! Note: I've looked at all the scripting 
 languages
  > listed at wikipedia and gamedev.net's 'Scripting and Mods' forum FAQ
  > </general>

 Have you considered minid -> http://dsource.org/projects/minid ?



 Dang! No :o  *runs quickly to dsource*  Thanks for the reminder :D



 You also didn't mention Python. (+ Pyd wrapper from 
 http://dsource.org/projects/pyd)


 
 
 It was listed at wikipedia *g*
 
 It's heavier than Lua and I don't know if it would offer anything more 
 than Squirrel... It would surely introduce a different syntax, e.g. many 
 people don't like the whitespace code grouping.
 
 As for Pyd, I'm not sure how much we'd (ab)use it. If we make some 
 bindings, they'll probably be done in such a way as to be able to use 
 multiple scripting languages or mix them. So either our wrapper will use 
 PyD, or we'll just go with the low level C API, *if* we decide to use 
 Python.
 
 If it turns out that a general binding for many scripting languages 
 boils down to just a handful of templates, Python might be an option too :D
 
 


One option to consider is exposing a general D API to script with, and 
then wrapping that API with the various scripting languages. (I admit I 
mention this because it is the sort of situation Pyd was written for: 
wrapping an existing D API with an interface to Python.)

-- 
Kirk McDonald
http://kirkmcdonald.blogspot.com
Pyd: Connecting D and Python
http://pyd.dsource.org
May 14 2007
prev sibling parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 Frits van Bommel wrote:

 Tom S wrote:

 Charlie wrote:

  > <general NG query> If you know of any other scripting approaches /
  > languages that would do a better or comparable job to what I briefly
  > described, let us know! Note: I've looked at all the scripting 
 languages
  > listed at wikipedia and gamedev.net's 'Scripting and Mods' forum FAQ
  > </general>

 Have you considered minid -> http://dsource.org/projects/minid ?


 Dang! No :o  *runs quickly to dsource*  Thanks for the reminder :D


 You also didn't mention Python. (+ Pyd wrapper from 
 http://dsource.org/projects/pyd)


 
 It was listed at wikipedia *g*
 
 It's heavier than Lua and I don't know if it would offer anything more 
 than Squirrel... It would surely introduce a different syntax, e.g. many 
 people don't like the whitespace code grouping.
 
 As for Pyd, I'm not sure how much we'd (ab)use it. If we make some 
 bindings, they'll probably be done in such a way as to be able to use 
 multiple scripting languages or mix them. So either our wrapper will use 
 PyD, or we'll just go with the low level C API, *if* we decide to use 
 Python.
 
 If it turns out that a general binding for many scripting languages 
 boils down to just a handful of templates, Python might be an option too :D
 


The heaviest thing about about Python is the libraries, and if you don't 
need 'em you don't have to ship 'em.  The core python24.dll is 1.78MB. 
That's not tiny but still it's a trivial size for a PC game.  The people 
who favor Lua are the console developers, where memory and space is 
actually a little tight.  But for PC development there's nothing wrong 
with Python's size.

If you don't like the syntax, well that's another issue.  I go back and 
forth between D and Python (and C++) a lot and don't find it to be too 
much of a problem.  I do tend to forget to type semi-colons for a while 
when I switch back to D, though.

--bb
May 14 2007
parent "Simen Haugen" <simen norstat.no> writes:
"Bill Baxter" <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> wrote in message 
news:f2b1i8$2hbn$1 digitalmars.com...

 If you don't like the syntax, well that's another issue.  I go back and 
 forth between D and Python (and C++) a lot and don't find it to be too 
 much of a problem.  I do tend to forget to type semi-colons for a while 
 when I switch back to D, though.


I also switch between Python and D, but I have the problem that when I 
switch back to Python I forget : and puts ; all over the place :)
May 19 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 <general NG query> If you know of any other scripting approaches / 
 languages that would do a better or comparable job to what I briefly 
 described, let us know! Note: I've looked at all the scripting languages 
 listed at wikipedia and gamedev.net's 'Scripting and Mods' forum FAQ 
 </general>


There's dmdscript, the javascript engine written in D.
May 14 2007
prev sibling parent reply Georg Wrede <georg nospam.org> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 Too bad there will be exams, tests and various nonsencial stuff 
 at the univ shortly... On the other hand, there will also be Summer 
 holidays.


Of course, the ability to code, refactor, manage a software project, 
join technologies, and a passion for the art are important for an 
employer who's looking for a new programmer.

But equally important is to work with and finish the things your boss 
wants you to do (and that you may not think are important, or the right 
thing to do). And in every (even the best!) company there are stupid 
bosses, company rules, or practices that one doesn't agree with. (Some 
of the things are actually stupid, others may just seem stupid. For 
example the owners may have a deal that forces them to do some things a 
certain way, and this deal is either secret, or (what's more likely) the 
middle bosses don't understand the issues but still have to enforce them.)

A good employer tries to predict or see your abilities to conform to all 
this, especially in software developing companies, where there already 
are too many "gurus", "know-it-all" geeks, "personalities" and 
"primadonnas".

Already with the game as your merit, you can be sure to get hired 
wherever you seek a job. But convincing them of all the other stuff 
gives you a much better job at the same company, and an outlook on a 
career with increasing responsibilities and salary, and of course 
influence among your colleagues.

So, finish your education with good grades, and you'll thank yourself 
many times in the years to come. Oh, and don't let any greedy employer 
steal you from the school. Such employers will tell you that your fame 
from this game will fade, and Right Now is the time to get a good job 
while the fame lasts. (I've been in this business for more than 20 years.)
May 15 2007
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Georg Wrede wrote:

 But equally important is to work with and finish the things your boss 
 wants you to do (and that you may not think are important, or the right 
 thing to do). And in every (even the best!) company there are stupid 
 bosses, company rules, or practices that one doesn't agree with. (Some 
 of the things are actually stupid, others may just seem stupid. For 
 example the owners may have a deal that forces them to do some things a 
 certain way, and this deal is either secret, or (what's more likely) the 
 middle bosses don't understand the issues but still have to enforce them.)


And sometimes the bosses have been around the block a few times and 
really do know better <g>.
May 15 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:
 In the end, it turned out that the jury didn't like computer games very 
 much... Maths doctors & professors == bad jury for a game programming 
 team. So we scored 2nd, after a project which basically combined some 
 GPS stuff thru bluetooth and Google Maps... Which, according to 80% of 
 my univ mates was... ridiculous.


Don't feel bad.  I had the same experience - I wrote a game with a full 
fledged scripting language built in, years ago when I was in high 
school.  It was a lot of lines, and represented a lot of work.

I lost to a GPA calculator.  This was a program where you typed in your 
grades and it told you your average.  It was like 200 lines or something 
silly like that.

Even the guy who won told me I clearly should have won.  Everyone 
competing against me did.  Oh, well.  It happens.  Silly 
only-knew-Fortran judges.

-[Unknown]
May 14 2007
parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Unknown W. Brackets wrote:

 In the end, it turned out that the jury didn't like computer games 
 very much... Maths doctors & professors == bad jury for a game 
 programming team. So we scored 2nd, after a project which basically 
 combined some GPS stuff thru bluetooth and Google Maps... Which, 
 according to 80% of my univ mates was... ridiculous.


 
 Don't feel bad.  I had the same experience - I wrote a game with a full 
 fledged scripting language built in, years ago when I was in high 
 school.  It was a lot of lines, and represented a lot of work.
 
 I lost to a GPA calculator.  This was a program where you typed in your 
 grades and it told you your average.  It was like 200 lines or something 
 silly like that.


Wow!  That's a pretty impressive feat of software engineering to turn a 
5-line program into 200 lines!

--bb
May 15 2007
parent reply Georg Wrede <georg nospam.org> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 

 In the end, it turned out that the jury didn't like computer games 
 very much... Maths doctors & professors == bad jury for a game 
 programming team. So we scored 2nd, after a project which basically 
 combined some GPS stuff thru bluetooth and Google Maps... Which, 
 according to 80% of my univ mates was... ridiculous.



 Don't feel bad.  I had the same experience - I wrote a game with a 
 full fledged scripting language built in, years ago when I was in high 
 school.  It was a lot of lines, and represented a lot of work.

 I lost to a GPA calculator.  This was a program where you typed in 
 your grades and it told you your average.  It was like 200 lines or 
 something silly like that.


 
 
 Wow!  That's a pretty impressive feat of software engineering to turn a 
 5-line program into 200 lines!


Probably 198 lines of GUI code and 2 lines of program logic! :-)
May 15 2007
parent "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:
Yes, that is accurate... but maybe it wasn't quite 200 lines.  It was 
short anyway.  And definitely nothing impressive about its code.

-[Unknown]


Georg Wrede wrote:

 Bill Baxter wrote:

 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:


 In the end, it turned out that the jury didn't like computer games 
 very much... Maths doctors & professors == bad jury for a game 
 programming team. So we scored 2nd, after a project which basically 
 combined some GPS stuff thru bluetooth and Google Maps... Which, 
 according to 80% of my univ mates was... ridiculous.



 Don't feel bad.  I had the same experience - I wrote a game with a 
 full fledged scripting language built in, years ago when I was in 
 high school.  It was a lot of lines, and represented a lot of work.

 I lost to a GPA calculator.  This was a program where you typed in 
 your grades and it told you your average.  It was like 200 lines or 
 something silly like that.



 Wow!  That's a pretty impressive feat of software engineering to turn 
 a 5-line program into 200 lines!


 
 Probably 198 lines of GUI code and 2 lines of program logic! :-)
May 15 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Tom S wrote:

 The presentation went really well :) IMHO, we crushed all the other 
 teams in almost all aspects of the project. After the presentation, we 
 received congrats from many folks from the univ, had numerous new 
 beta-tester applications and lots of applause ;) Our project supervisor, 
 Piotr Rosiak also received congrats from other supervisors, or so I heard.


How about posting to gamedev.net?
May 15 2007
prev sibling parent reply Lutger <lutger.blijdestijn gmail.com> writes:
Congratulations with your work, very impressive! Very nice artwork on 
the website with the whole cyberpunk theme, pretty cool.

Whilst obviously only a small part of your project, I'm curious how 
immediate mode gui worked out. Did you find it much better than retained 
mode gui, and do your think this is mainly good for games or also useful 
in other types of applications?
May 16 2007
parent reply Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 The heaviest thing about about Python is the libraries, and if you don't
 need 'em you don't have to ship 'em.  The core python24.dll is 1.78MB.
 That's not tiny but still it's a trivial size for a PC game.  The people
 who favor Lua are the console developers, where memory and space is
 actually a little tight.  But for PC development there's nothing wrong
 with Python's size.


That's a valid point, but by heavy I also meant that it's slower than Lua.
Lua itself isn't very pretty, but I've recently stumbled across this: 
http://metalua.luaforge.net/ and it seems really interesting.




 If you don't like the syntax, well that's another issue.  I go back and
 forth between D and Python (and C++) a lot and don't find it to be too
 much of a problem.  I do tend to forget to type semi-colons for a while
 when I switch back to D, though.


Nah, I do like the syntax, and I used to code in Python, but I'm more 
concerned about all the rest of team0xf and the other folks that might 
write a script or two and don't find Python very friendly

Anyway, If my evil binding plan turns out to work, adding Python to the 
list should be near trivial :)



Walter Bright wrote:

 There's dmdscript, the javascript engine written in D.


That has two problems:
- I absolutely dislike ECMA 262
- someone would have to benchmark it against other scripting langs :>



Unknown W. Brackets wrote:

 Don't feel bad.  I had the same experience - I wrote a game with a full
 fledged scripting language built in, years ago when I was in high
 school.  It was a lot of lines, and represented a lot of work.

 I lost to a GPA calculator.  This was a program where you typed in your
 grades and it told you your average.  It was like 200 lines or something
 silly like that.

 Even the guy who won told me I clearly should have won.  Everyone
 competing against me did.  Oh, well.  It happens.  Silly
 only-knew-Fortran judges.


Ok, so our case wasn't that bad... Thanks for remdinding me that silly 
judges are there all over the globe ;)
Gee you must've been mad... losing to a GPA calculator... that's like a 
slap in the face.



Georg Wrede wrote:

 Of course, the ability to code, refactor, manage a software project,
 join technologies, and a passion for the art are important for an
 employer who's looking for a new programmer.

 (...)

 Already with the game as your merit, you can be sure to get hired
 wherever you seek a job. But convincing them of all the other stuff
 gives you a much better job at the same company, and an outlook on a
 career with increasing responsibilities and salary, and of course
 influence among your colleagues.

 So, finish your education with good grades, and you'll thank yourself
 many times in the years to come. Oh, and don't let any greedy employer
 steal you from the school. Such employers will tell you that your fame
 from this game will fade, and Right Now is the time to get a good job
 while the fame lasts. (I've been in this business for more than 20 


years.)

Thanks for the clues :)
While I'm not going to run out towards greedy employers, the university 
and its program itself is giving my collegues and me hard time... Not 
sure if this is specific just to this department, but the level is not 
very high. Basically, for a long time there wasn't a Computer Science 
department at my univ. After some discussions, they decided to create it 
at the department of mathematics. I guess they didn't like it that much, 
as now mathematicians are blocking all computer science, and think 
they're the most important there :/ For example, the department gets 
lots of cash every month or so, and they won't even sponsor some ACM or 
IEEE memberships for even single students. There have been many 
initiatives that would need marginal founding, and they aren't willing 
to give just a few bucks. The mathematicians get everything :S
Most of the computer-science teachers/lecturers/tutors possibly knew 
their stuff 20 years ago, but now they're just bored, 
reluctant-to-do-anything dinosaurs. Only the young folks are more 
lively, but they have to conform to the program that the dinosaurs set 
out, or even worse, they can't invent new cool classes because the 
matematicians don't like it.
And how shall we find motivation to study at this univ... *sigh*



Walter Bright wrote:

 How about posting to gamedev.net?


Sure! But we must get the long-discussed webpage praising D online ;)



Mikola Lysenko wrote:

 Great job!


Thanks :)


 I really admire your work on the game, and more importantly the 


remarkable story that got you there.  Overall it is a great victory for 
D at large, not to mention impressive as hell for a student project. 
You should post an image of the day on GameDev.net.

An IOTD is the plan. I think it's what gets the most attention on 
GameDev.net :)



Chad J wrote:

 Good to hear things went mostly excellent.  Congrats!
 I like the backgroud story too.  A politically incorrect project...
 something that rubs the wrong people the wrong way, but undeniably kicks
 ass.  Overcoming adversity by placing second with hostile judges.  I
 like it.

 Rock on.


Hahaha, your comment made my day ;) Thanks!



Lutger wrote:

 Congratulations with your work, very impressive! Very nice artwork on
 the website with the whole cyberpunk theme, pretty cool.


Thanks :] We'll try to get the game up to the theme.



 Whilst obviously only a small part of your project, I'm curious how
 immediate mode gui worked out. Did you find it much better than retained
 mode gui, and do your think this is mainly good for games or also useful
 in other types of applications?


I'd dare to say that it would be useful in other application types. And 
to be fair, our GUI isn't exactly an Immediate GUI, but rather a hybrid 
of IM and RM GUIs. It works pretty well, but I'm not sure that I like 
the fact that some of the state info has to be stored in global vars, or 
that special checking must be made to determine when a value has 
changed. Maybe I'll find a way to make this aspect of the GUI better :)

Anyway, the lack of init<->callback separation in IM GUIs is really 
cool. The code looks pretty clean and self-explanatory and no special 
signal-slot stuff is needed. It gets especially nice when combined with 
sinking-bubbling event processing :) Definitely makes for the sexiest 
radio button code 'evar' ;D

Here's one of my test apps of the GUI (Windows only ATM):
http://h3r3tic.googlecode.com/files/guiDemo-2007.05.17.7z

And its source:
http://paste.dprogramming.com/dpyg6dkc.php

The code may look a bit alien at first... But it's pretty easy to write 
and understand, at least IMHO.

I'm working on the GUI as a mini side-project, planning to extend it to 
the most-frequently used widgets and separate it from Deadlock to make 
it usable in other projects.




Again, thanks for the feedback :)


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 16 2007
next sibling parent reply Lutger <lutger.blijdestijn gmail.com> writes:
Tom S wrote:
...

 Here's one of my test apps of the GUI (Windows only ATM):
 http://h3r3tic.googlecode.com/files/guiDemo-2007.05.17.7z
 
 And its source:
 http://paste.dprogramming.com/dpyg6dkc.php


Looks good, thanks.


 The code may look a bit alien at first... But it's pretty easy to write 
 and understand, at least IMHO.
 
 I'm working on the GUI as a mini side-project, planning to extend it to 
 the most-frequently used widgets and separate it from Deadlock to make 
 it usable in other projects.


If you want to open source it eventually, it would be very interesting.
May 16 2007
parent Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
Lutger wrote:

 If you want to open source it eventually, it would be very interesting.


The only reason it's not out yet is that it's still tangled up a bit in 
Deadlock's code and it needs a bit of cleanup and polish :)


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 17 2007
prev sibling parent reply "Anders Bergh" <anders andersman.org> writes:
On 5/17/07, Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> wrote:

 That's a valid point, but by heavy I also meant that it's slower than Lua.
 Lua itself isn't very pretty, but I've recently stumbled across this:
 http://metalua.luaforge.net/ and it seems really interesting.


And Lua[1] can be even faster, if you use LuaJIT[2] instead. I believe
one could use Psyco[3] for Python, which is also a JIT compiler.

What are your issues with the Lua syntax? There are patches[4] to make
it more C-ish, as in adding /* */ and // style comments, and C
operators instead of "and", "or", etc. But then you can no longer call
it Lua. I doubt you would be able to call Metalua-ized code Lua either
:-)

[1] http://lua.org/
[2] http://luajit.luaforge.net/
[3] http://psyco.sourceforge.net/
[4] http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaPowerPatches

-- 
Anders
May 17 2007
parent reply Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
Anders Bergh wrote:

 What are your issues with the Lua syntax?


Not enough curly braces, array indices starting from 1, same syntax for 
slot creation as for slot updates, also the fact that slots are global 
by default, are the first things that come to my head :>

Anyway, thanks for the links :)


-- 
Tomasz Stachowiak
http://h3.team0xf.com/
h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
May 18 2007
parent "Jarrett Billingsley" <kb3ctd2 yahoo.com> writes:
"Tom S" <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> wrote in message 
news:f2knpe$r2$1 digitalmars.com...

 Anders Bergh wrote:

 What are your issues with the Lua syntax?


 Not enough curly braces, array indices starting from 1, same syntax for 
 slot creation as for slot updates, also the fact that slots are global by 
 default, are the first things that come to my head :>

 Anyway, thanks for the links :)


Try MiniD ;)  Curly braces, arrays starting from 0 (and a separate array 
type at that), and no accidental setting of globals unless you really manage 
to eff something up.  (but slot creation and update are still the same, for 
tables at least.)
May 18 2007
prev sibling parent Mikola Lysenko <mclysenk mtu.edu> writes:
Great job!

I really admire your work on the game, and more importantly the remarkable
story that got you there.  Overall it is a great victory for D at large, not to
mention impressive as hell for a student project.  You should post an image of
the day on GameDev.net.

-Mik
May 15 2007