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digitalmars.D.announce - D web site facelift

reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of the D 
web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This isn't about 
the content, just the look/style/feel.

Comments welcome.

Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the 
organization may change.
Jul 02 2010
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 d-programming-language.org 


http://www.d-programming-language.org
Jul 02 2010
parent Tyro[a.c.edwards] <no.spam home.com> writes:
Looks great in IE 8, Chrome 5, Firefox 3, and Opera 10! I like it so
far. Now all we need now is to find someone to revamp the web interface
to this newsgroup on we would be set.
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Adam Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
The text is borderline illegible, due to poor contrast combined with a
small text size.
Jul 02 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Adam Ruppe wrote:

 The text is borderline illegible, due to poor contrast combined with a
 small text size.


What browser are you using? In IE it renders well, and I'm picky about that
sort 
of thing.
Jul 02 2010
next sibling parent reply Adam Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On 7/2/10, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 What browser are you using? In IE it renders well, and I'm picky about that
 sort of thing.


I tried both Konqueror and Firefox and found the body text to look
bad, worse in Firefox (probably because I set konqueror to ignore font
sizes specified in websites, but the color there didn't make me happy
either).

On Internet Explorer, the size looks OK, but the menu text has poor
contrast. The mouse hover color looks better than the regular color.
Jul 02 2010
next sibling parent BCS <none anon.com> writes:
Hello Adam,



 On Internet Explorer, the size looks OK, but the menu text has poor
 contrast. The mouse hover color looks better than the regular color.
 


Ditto, chrome.

-- 
... <IXOYE><
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Charles Hixson <charleshixsn earthlink.net> writes:
On 07/02/2010 06:16 PM, Adam Ruppe wrote:

 On 7/2/10, Walter Bright<newshound2 digitalmars.com>  wrote:

 What browser are you using? In IE it renders well, and I'm picky about that
 sort of thing.


 I tried both Konqueror and Firefox and found the body text to look
 bad, worse in Firefox (probably because I set konqueror to ignore font
 sizes specified in websites, but the color there didn't make me happy
 either).

 On Internet Explorer, the size looks OK, but the menu text has poor
 contrast. The mouse hover color looks better than the regular color.


I'm using Firefox without problems in reading the text (on Linux), 
but... well...

The design certainly looks more elegant, but it feels "noisier", and it 
feels like it would take more time to locate the information one was 
looking for.

This looks more like a marketing publication, and those things aren't 
designed to convey much information.  Just the feel of information.

I think there's a good reason that manuals are traditionally as simple 
as possible, and it's to cut down on the time it takes to recognize what 
you're looking for.
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling parent Charles Hixson <charleshixsn earthlink.net> writes:
Well, the last try didn't work.  Trying this post again.
On 07/02/2010 06:16 PM, Adam Ruppe wrote:

 On 7/2/10, Walter Bright<newshound2 digitalmars.com>  wrote:

 What browser are you using? In IE it renders well, and I'm picky 




about that

 sort of thing.


 I tried both Konqueror and Firefox and found the body text to look
 bad, worse in Firefox (probably because I set konqueror to ignore font
 sizes specified in websites, but the color there didn't make me happy
 either).

 On Internet Explorer, the size looks OK, but the menu text has poor
 contrast. The mouse hover color looks better than the regular color.


I'm using Firefox without problems in reading the text (on Linux), 
but... well...

The design certainly looks more elegant, but it feels "noisier", and it 
feels like it would take more time to locate the information one was 
looking for.

This looks more like a marketing publication, and those things aren't 
designed to convey much information.  Just the feel of information.

I think there's a good reason that manuals are traditionally as simple 
as possible, and it's to cut down on the time it takes to recognize what 
you're looking for.
Jul 04 2010
prev sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisprog gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, July 02, 2010 18:16:27 Adam Ruppe wrote:

 On 7/2/10, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 What browser are you using? In IE it renders well, and I'm picky about
 that sort of thing.


 
 I tried both Konqueror and Firefox and found the body text to look
 bad, worse in Firefox (probably because I set konqueror to ignore font
 sizes specified in websites, but the color there didn't make me happy
 either).
 
 On Internet Explorer, the size looks OK, but the menu text has poor
 contrast. The mouse hover color looks better than the regular color.


I'm using Konqueror and it looks okay except for the side bar. It's readable, 
but that reddish glow effect makes the parts of the sidebar it's on harder to 
read. If it were gone, then it likely wouldn't be a problem.

Trying firefox, chromium, and opera, they all have the same problem but to 
varying degrees. The whiter they render the text, the less of a problem it is. 
But I think that that red glow is problematic

- Jonathan M Davis
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0400, Walter Bright  
<newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of  
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.  
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the  
 organization may change.


Looks very good.

A couple things:

1) can the library generated docs be made to match?

2) Once I clicked on Language Reference link, I had a hard time then  
finding the Library Reference link.  Can the higher level links be made  
more distinct?  Maybe bold or have a slightly different background color?

-Steve
Jul 02 2010
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:

 On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0400, Walter Bright 
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look 
 of the D web site. A preview of it is up on 
 d-programming-language.org. This isn't about the content, just the 
 look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as 
 the organization may change.


 
 Looks very good.
 
 A couple things:
 
 1) can the library generated docs be made to match?


Yah, I'll put a target in the makefile to automatically upload the 
latest and greatest dox to the site. I'm also thinking of distributing a 
script for eager users to update to the cutting edge version of Phobos.


Andrei
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
The menu on the left has too much low contrast.

The text column on the right looks too much narrow, it wastes some space on the
right.

The Add to or comment on this page on the wiki / Translate this page: thingie
is too much intrusive and too much wordy. That's not the right place.

Note: really small fonts != stylish site.

Please looks at your site with Firefox too.

Bye,
bearophile
Jul 02 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
bearophile wrote:

 Please looks at your site with Firefox too.


I did, it looks the same.
Jul 02 2010
parent reply BCS <none anon.com> writes:
Hello Walter,


 bearophile wrote:
 

 Please looks at your site with Firefox too.
 


 I did, it looks the same.
 


What is the dot pitch of your monitor?

-- 
... <IXOYE><
Jul 02 2010
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
BCS wrote:

 Hello Walter,
 

 bearophile wrote:


 Please looks at your site with Firefox too.


 I did, it looks the same.


 
 What is the dot pitch of your monitor?


Suggestion: attach screenshots.

Andrei
Jul 02 2010
parent Michel Fortin <michel.fortin michelf.com> writes:
On 2010-07-02 21:54:15 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu 
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> said:


 BCS wrote:

 Hello Walter,
 

 bearophile wrote:
 

 Please looks at your site with Firefox too.
 


 I did, it looks the same.
 


 
 What is the dot pitch of your monitor?


 
 Suggestion: attach screenshots.


I think a photograph of the monitor is what you'd really need. 
Different monitors have different sharpness and different ways to 
render the same color values.


-- 
Michel Fortin
michel.fortin michelf.com
http://michelf.com/
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent BCS <none anon.com> writes:
Hello Walter,


 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look
 of the D web site. A preview of it is up on
 d-programming-language.org. This isn't about the content, just the
 look/style/feel.
 
 Comments welcome.
 


I like it visually but I found it to hard to find the documentation (The 
language and lib documentation root pages should be linked from all pages).


 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as
 the organization may change.
 


-- 
... <IXOYE><
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Simen kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 Comments welcome.


I really like the feel, but I must join the others saying the menu text
has too low contrast.

I'm mostly using Opera 10.6/Win7 on 1920x1200 on a 15.4" laptop monitor,
and the font size is perfect for me. I noticed it's smaller in Chrome/
Firefox, but not so much it hurts readability for me. Then again, I have
good eyesight.

Also, on that resolution, the comment/translate/reddit box is in no way
troublesome, and in fact feels the right size and position. I agree it
feels somewhat intruding on lower resolutions.

-- 
Simen
Jul 02 2010
parent Leandro Lucarella <luca llucax.com.ar> writes:
Simen kjaeraas, el  3 de julio a las 04:01 me escribiste:

 Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 

Comments welcome.


 
 I really like the feel, but I must join the others saying the menu text
 has too low contrast.
 
 I'm mostly using Opera 10.6/Win7 on 1920x1200 on a 15.4" laptop monitor,
 and the font size is perfect for me. I noticed it's smaller in Chrome/
 Firefox, but not so much it hurts readability for me. Then again, I have
 good eyesight.
 
 Also, on that resolution, the comment/translate/reddit box is in no way
 troublesome, and in fact feels the right size and position. I agree it
 feels somewhat intruding on lower resolutions.


Nice. Use the same favicon as the Wiki4D and I'm sold:
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/upload/duser/favicon.png

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (AKA luca)                     http://llucax.com.ar/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cuando no haya nadie que me pueda ver
Con mis manos frías me voy a tejer
Un abrigo para mi corazón
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Michel Fortin <michel.fortin michelf.com> writes:
On 2010-07-02 20:55:33 -0400, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> said:


 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look 
 of the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. 
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.
 
 Comments welcome.
 
 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as 
 the organization may change.


It looks much better than the old one visually, but I have a few first 
impression comments about some things that could be improved:

1. That Google Translation bar that appears at the top of every page 
about one second after it has loaded is distracting from the content. 
Yes I can click the X, or the "turn off" button, but having all the 
content shift downwards a second after the page has loaded is annoying. 
And the "turn off" button probably won't work after I reset my 
cookies... hum, not even close: I see it doesn't work even if I keep my 
cookies, not sure why. :-/

(Note: this bar probably appears only when the default language for 
your browser/OS isn't English. Also, translation is overrated for a 
programming language website, because when you translate a page, most 
of the code becomes unreadable. It certainly can be useful, but I 
wouldn't promote it too much because the result is really suboptimal.)

2. Why is the Digital Mars logo so big? I realize it's about the same 
size as on the DM website, but because of the dark background it looks 
as if it was the main title of the website, shadowing the "D 
programming language 2.0" which looks like a subtitle. I think DM needs 
to be made a little smaller and somehow leave more room for D, and the 
"D programming language 2.0" below should be made more visible. This is 
D's website, so D should be the one getting the most attention.

3. As other have said, the contrast is suboptimal for the navigation 
menu on the left. As I learned myself when making websites, most 
people's monitors aren't properly calibrated and what looks good one 
one often looks bad on another. So you must account for this when 
choosing the colors.

4. I'd like if some unnecessary margins on some elements were reduced 
or removed. The site looks all squeezed if the window is not wide 
enough. The effect is particularly bad for code samples which have way 
too much margin (perhaps some margin/padding should be expressed in 
percents). Here are three screenshots at the size I generally keep my 
browser window:

http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-1.png
http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-2.png
http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-3.png

(Note: the last one is quite funny if you can read French, but perhaps 
also if you can't.)

-- 
Michel Fortin
michel.fortin michelf.com
http://michelf.com/
Jul 02 2010
next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisprog gmail.com> writes:
On Friday 02 July 2010 19:29:04 Michel Fortin wrote:

 
 http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-1.png
 http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-2.png
 http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-3.png
 
 (Note: the last one is quite funny if you can read French, but perhaps
 also if you can't.)


I think that it would be funny either way, but being able to read French does 
give you some clue as to why it replaces what with what. And lacking proper 
context, with words like switch, it's likely to pick entirely the wrong word 
even if you _were_ looking to translate all of the kewords into French. It is 
certainly funny though.

- Jonathan M Davis
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling parent reply Michel Fortin <michel.fortin michelf.com> writes:
On 2010-07-02 22:29:04 -0400, Michel Fortin <michel.fortin michelf.com> said:


 http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-3.png
 
 (Note: the last one is quite funny if you can read French, but perhaps 
 also if you can't.)


On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation 
doesn't attempt to translate code inside a <code> element. So I would 
suggest the website uses <pre><code> ... </code></pre> for its code 
blocks, and <code>...</code> for keywords and other code-related terms 
in the text. That could actually make the translation useful.


-- 
Michel Fortin
michel.fortin michelf.com
http://michelf.com/
Jul 03 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Michel Fortin wrote:

 On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation 
 doesn't attempt to translate code inside a <code> element. So I would 
 suggest the website uses <pre><code> ... </code></pre> for its code 
 blocks, and <code>...</code> for keywords and other code-related terms 
 in the text. That could actually make the translation useful.


This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it!
Jul 03 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Michel Fortin wrote:

 On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation 
 doesn't attempt to translate code inside a <code> element. So I would 
 suggest the website uses <pre><code> ... </code></pre> for its code 
 blocks, and <code>...</code> for keywords and other code-related terms 
 in the text. That could actually make the translation useful.


 
 This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it!


Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting your code
all 
on one line. Bah :-(
Jul 03 2010
next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Michel Fortin wrote:

 On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google 
 Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a <code> 
 element. So I would suggest the website uses <pre><code> ... 
 </code></pre> for its code blocks, and <code>...</code> for keywords 
 and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make 
 the translation useful.


 This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it!


 
 Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting your 
 code all on one line. Bah :-(


How about nesting them the other way around? <code><pre>...</pre></code>?

Andrei
Jul 03 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Michel Fortin wrote:

 On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google 
 Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a <code> 
 element. So I would suggest the website uses <pre><code> ... 
 </code></pre> for its code blocks, and <code>...</code> for keywords 
 and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make 
 the translation useful.


 This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it!


 Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting 
 your code all on one line. Bah :-(


 
 How about nesting them the other way around? <code><pre>...</pre></code>?


I tried that, too. It recognizes the newlines, and then translates the code. 
Back to square 1.
Jul 03 2010
parent reply KennyTM~ <kennytm gmail.com> writes:
On Jul 4, 10 04:57, Walter Bright wrote:

 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Michel Fortin wrote:

 On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google
 Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a <code>
 element. So I would suggest the website uses <pre><code> ...
 </code></pre> for its code blocks, and <code>...</code> for
 keywords and other code-related terms in the text. That could
 actually make the translation useful.


 This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it!


 Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting
 your code all on one line. Bah :-(


 How about nesting them the other way around? <code><pre>...</pre></code>?


 I tried that, too. It recognizes the newlines, and then translates the
 code. Back to square 1.


You could use <pre class="notranslate"> to suppress translation. It's 
documented in http://translate.google.com/support/.
Jul 03 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
KennyTM~ wrote:

 You could use <pre class="notranslate"> to suppress translation. It's 
 documented in http://translate.google.com/support/.


It's actually span, not pre. But thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try.
Jul 05 2010
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 KennyTM~ wrote:

 You could use <pre class="notranslate"> to suppress translation. It's 
 documented in http://translate.google.com/support/.


 
 It's actually span, not pre. But thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try.


Ok, tried it. It preserves the line breaks, but it adds an extra space at the 
start and a blank line at the end. Not perfect, but seems to work well enough.

Page to try it on:

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/ctod.html
Jul 05 2010
prev sibling parent KennyTM~ <kennytm gmail.com> writes:
On Jul 6, 10 10:04, Walter Bright wrote:

 KennyTM~ wrote:

 You could use <pre class="notranslate"> to suppress translation. It's
 documented in http://translate.google.com/support/.


 It's actually span, not pre. But thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try.


Actually any elements with the class name 'notranslate' is OK, e.g.

    <pre class="notranslate ccode">int main () {
       ...
       return 0;
    }
    </pre>
Jul 06 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2010-07-03 20.06, Walter Bright wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Michel Fortin wrote:

 On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google
 Translation doesn't attempt to translate code inside a <code>
 element. So I would suggest the website uses <pre><code> ...
 </code></pre> for its code blocks, and <code>...</code> for keywords
 and other code-related terms in the text. That could actually make
 the translation useful.


 This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it!


 Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting your
 code all on one line. Bah :-(


Sounds like you're missing the pre tags.

-- 
Jacob Carlborg
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling parent reply Michel Fortin <michel.fortin michelf.com> writes:
On 2010-07-03 14:06:26 -0400, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> said:


 Walter Bright wrote:

 Michel Fortin wrote:

 On a side note, I've noticed on other websites that Google Translation 
 doesn't attempt to translate code inside a <code> element. So I would 
 suggest the website uses <pre><code> ... </code></pre> for its code 
 blocks, and <code>...</code> for keywords and other code-related terms 
 in the text. That could actually make the translation useful.


 
 This must be new, it didn't use to do that. I'll take advantage of it!


 
 Sadly, it doesn't work, as it strips all the newlines out, putting your 
 code all on one line. Bah :-(


The problem is that the translator strips the line breaks. But that's 
still an improvement over the older "translated" code, where half the 
identifiers are changed, braces are changed to parenthesis and some 
newlines are removed randomly.

I suggest you add <code> anyway. At least this way Google can improve 
their translator engine and it'll then work fine.

-- 
Michel Fortin
michel.fortin michelf.com
http://michelf.com/
Jul 03 2010
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Michel Fortin wrote:

 The problem is that the translator strips the line breaks. But that's 
 still an improvement over the older "translated" code, where half the 
 identifiers are changed, braces are changed to parenthesis and some 
 newlines are removed randomly.
 
 I suggest you add <code> anyway. At least this way Google can improve 
 their translator engine and it'll then work fine.


Makes sense.
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Robert Jacques" <sandford jhu.edu> writes:
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0400, Walter Bright  
<newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of  
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.  
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the  
 organization may change.


Generally, looks good.
1. I concur that medium-light gray on medium-dark gray is too low  
contrast. However, I find the red bloom in the upper left corner, which  
also reduces contrast, to be a greater hindrance to readability. Text size  
seems fine by me.
2. The sub-menus (i.e. articles, language reference, etc.) are gliching  
with opera 10.53 when zoomed. Part of the screen literally doesn't refresh  
properly when scrolling and/or switching tabs. This only occurs after  
you've entered at least one menu after zooming.
Jul 02 2010
parent "Robert Jacques" <sandford jhu.edu> writes:
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 23:08:11 -0400, Robert Jacques <sandford jhu.edu>  
wrote:


 On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0400, Walter Bright  
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look  
 of the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.  
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as  
 the organization may change.


 Generally, looks good.
 1. I concur that medium-light gray on medium-dark gray is too low  
 contrast. However, I find the red bloom in the upper left corner, which  
 also reduces contrast, to be a greater hindrance to readability. Text  
 size seems fine by me.
 2. The sub-menus (i.e. articles, language reference, etc.) are gliching  
 with opera 10.53 when zoomed. Part of the screen literally doesn't  
 refresh properly when scrolling and/or switching tabs. This only occurs  
 after you've entered at least one menu after zooming.


Some second thoughts.
The translate page select language combo box is lagging in it's rendering.  
First select language seems to appear and then the combo box after, which  
changes the control size. This control also seems fairly low on the page  
and tends to interfere with the text. Perhaps the translate portion can go  
on the left (as per the old site) and the wiki button raised higher on the  
page or into the header section. Also, "Add to or comment on this page on  
the wiki" seems verbose.

The search field is rounded but the combo isn't and is very close to it,  
giving the pair an odd look. Perhaps the combo box should be centered  
beneath the search field.

The placement of the DigitialMars/D logo is a little odd. I tried mocking  
something up in paint, with "Digital Mars" moved left into the corner  
position and "D Programming Language 2.0" moved right into the header  
space and learned that to do that you'd really want to re-work the Digital  
Mars logo a bit.

Also, I just ran into a much more major bug between the webpage and Opera  
10.53, though it seems to be an actual bug in opera and may not be  
consistent.
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Brian Hay <bhay construct3d.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of 
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. 
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.
 
 Comments welcome.


I think it's light years ahead of what's there now and will lift the 
professional image and marketability of D.

Fonts are just fine for me, as is sidebar menu contrast. It focuses 
attention on what matters, the page content, whilst not detracting from 
the navigability. Good, balanced use of negative / white space - far too 
many programming and technical sites assault users with a wall of text 
and links. This is great.
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:i0m1qa$2vad$1 digitalmars.com...

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of 
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This 
 isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the 
 organization may change.


Oooohh, pretty :)

A few notes:

Text size is the absolute biggest it can get without it being 
"too-fucking-big". Personally, I'd even bring it down one notch, but as-is 
is acceptable. *Definitely* do *NOT* go any bigger, though (this isn't 
Fisher-Price Publishing).

The red glow is very nice, but I agree with the others that it decreases the 
contrast too much and makes it hard to read or look at. In fact, even 
without the red glow, the menu doesn't have enough contrast and it hurts my 
eyes.

The text-color in the search box needs to be set to black, not 
system-default. It's nearly-invisible for me on all the browsers I tried: 
IE7, FF2 and Iron (it's like Chrome, except with changes that make me allow 
it to actually touch my computer).

BIG PROBLEM: In IE, the body-text is nearly invisible. (Pet peeve: When will 
people learn that *EVERY* time you set a background color, you *MUST ALSO* 
set a foreground color and vice-versa??? I see that ignored absolutely all 
the time. This should be basic, basic Design-101 stuff...) See screenshot: 
http://www.semitwist.com/download/newDSiteIE.png

I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other 
people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone 
else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I 
really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.)
Jul 02 2010
next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> wrote in message 
news:i0mi47$mhi$1 digitalmars.com...

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
 news:i0m1qa$2vad$1 digitalmars.com...

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of 
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This 
 isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the 
 organization may change.


 Oooohh, pretty :)

 A few notes:

 Text size is the absolute biggest it can get without it being 
 "too-fucking-big". Personally, I'd even bring it down one notch, but as-is 
 is acceptable. *Definitely* do *NOT* go any bigger, though (this isn't 
 Fisher-Price Publishing).

 The red glow is very nice, but I agree with the others that it decreases 
 the contrast too much and makes it hard to read or look at. In fact, even 
 without the red glow, the menu doesn't have enough contrast and it hurts 
 my eyes.

 The text-color in the search box needs to be set to black, not 
 system-default. It's nearly-invisible for me on all the browsers I tried: 
 IE7, FF2 and Iron (it's like Chrome, except with changes that make me 
 allow it to actually touch my computer).

 BIG PROBLEM: In IE, the body-text is nearly invisible. (Pet peeve: When 
 will people learn that *EVERY* time you set a background color, you *MUST 
 ALSO* set a foreground color and vice-versa??? I see that ignored 
 absolutely all the time. This should be basic, basic Design-101 stuff...) 
 See screenshot: http://www.semitwist.com/download/newDSiteIE.png

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other 
 people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone 
 else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I 
 really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.)


Also, FWIW, this is how it looks in my normal browser (FF): 
http://www.semitwist.com/download/newDSiteFF.png
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other 
 people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone 
 else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I 
 really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.)


I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a 
universal translator.
Jul 03 2010
next sibling parent reply Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright Wrote:


 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other 
 people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone 
 else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I 
 really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.)


 
 I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a 
 universal translator.


Unfortunately a lot of the translator's output ends up being quite comedical.
It tends to mix up past tense, future tense, and sometimes leaves the output in
English. In other cases some words tend to have multiple meaning in other
languages and depend on context in order to be translated.

But I think this is almost always the case with technical documentation.
Jul 03 2010
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

 Unfortunately a lot of the translator's output ends up being quite comedical.
 It tends to mix up past tense, future tense, and sometimes leaves the output
 in English. In other cases some words tend to have multiple meaning in other
 languages and depend on context in order to be translated.
 
 But I think this is almost always the case with technical documentation.


I know the translations leave a lot to be desired. But I've often found them 
good enough to figure out what is going on.
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:i0nula$bk7$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other 
 people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone 
 else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I 
 really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.)


 I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a 
 universal translator.


There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of *any* 
page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded it into. And 
they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary JS bloat that not 
everyone's going to need.

-------------------------------
Not sent from an iPhone.
Jul 03 2010
next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> wrote in message 
news:i0o227$gr0$1 digitalmars.com...

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
 news:i0nula$bk7$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other 
 people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone 
 else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. 
 (I really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's 
 crap.)


 I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a 
 universal translator.


 There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of 
 *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded it 
 into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary JS bloat 
 that not everyone's going to need.


I'll put it this way: the current trend of embedding features (like 
translation, or forcing videos to be viewed in a *specific* player, or "add 
to POS social-networking-site-of-the-month" links) put the web squarely in 
the exact same position that desktop applications were in back in the old 
DOS days when everything had to include it's own audio/video drivers and 
copy-paste didn't work across apps. This is just a modern parallel to that. 
Except the difference is, in this case, the infrastructure to do it the 
right way (ie, orthogonally) is already there and people are just choosing 
to do it the wrong way (ie, piecemeal).
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
 news:i0nula$bk7$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that other 
 people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot someone 
 else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up for me. (I 
 really wish people would stop loading up their pages with Google's crap.)


 I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of a 
 universal translator.


 
 There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of *any* 
 page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded it into. And 
 they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary JS bloat that not 
 everyone's going to need.


I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not have to go 
get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, nobody ever complained 
about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?
Jul 03 2010
next sibling parent =?UTF-8?B?IkrDqXLDtG1lIE0uIEJlcmdlciI=?= <jeberger free.fr> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:i0nula$bk7$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that
 other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the
 screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's
 not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up
 their pages with Google's crap.)


 I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea
 of a universal translator.


 There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of
 *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded
 it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary
 JS bloat that not everyone's going to need.


=20
 I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not
 have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also,
 nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issu=


e?

	This is the first time I've seen a web site with this google
translate bar on top. For example, the old (current) digitalmars
site doesn't have it. Personally, that's why I never complained
before: the issue wasn't there before...

		Jerome
--=20
mailto:jeberger free.fr
http://jeberger.free.fr
Jabber: jeberger jabber.fr
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
 news:i0nula$bk7$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that 
 other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the 
 screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's 
 not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up 
 their pages with Google's crap.)


 I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea 
 of a universal translator.


 There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of 
 *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded 
 it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary 
 JS bloat that not everyone's going to need.


 
 I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not 
 have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, 
 nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?


People don't need plugins to translate a page. All they need do is 
navigate to translate.google.com, enter the URL in a box, select a 
language, and click a button. My logs show that visitors to my blogs 
(including The One With D) do that frequently without any prompting from me.

Anyway, if you're going to keep the box it might be a good idea to 
relocate it. I suggest the bottom of the menu. That way it won't 
interfere with any text when it expands. Either that, or give it a div 
with a fixed height large enough to hold it when it's expanded.
Jul 03 2010
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Mike Parker" <aldacron gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:i0ohtk$19am$1 digitalmars.com...

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
 news:i0nula$bk7$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that 
 other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the screenshot 
 someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's not showing up 
 for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up their pages with 
 Google's crap.)


 I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea of 
 a universal translator.


 There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of 
 *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded it 
 into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary JS 
 bloat that not everyone's going to need.


 I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not have 
 to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, nobody ever 
 complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?


 People don't need plugins to translate a page. All they need do is 
 navigate to translate.google.com, enter the URL in a box, select a 
 language, and click a button. My logs show that visitors to my blogs 
 (including The One With D) do that frequently without any prompting from 
 me.


The browser plugins are generally a one-click way to send the url directly 
either google translate or babelfish. I don't think there's a way you could 
tell from your logs whether they're doing that manually or if a plugin is 
doing it for them.
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Charles Hixson <charleshixsn earthlink.net> writes:
On 07/03/2010 01:51 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:i0nula$bk7$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that
 other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the
 screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's
 not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up
 their pages with Google's crap.)


 I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea
 of a universal translator.


 There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of
 *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded
 it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary
 JS bloat that not everyone's going to need.


 I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not
 have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also,
 nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?


Actually, I *did* complain about it before...in the context of 
downloaded documentation.  The timing sometimes makes doing searches 
over multiple pages, when you don't remember exactly where something was 
documented, painful.  Sufficiently so that I hand modify downloaded 
documentation to remove it, and any other scripts that I notice causing 
a slowdown.  (Translation is worst, but there are a couple of others 
that are occasionally obtrusive.)

OTOH, if you're already downloading the page from the net that should be 
much less of a problem...you're already slowed down.
Jul 04 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Charles Hixson wrote:

 Actually, I *did* complain about it before...in the context of 
 downloaded documentation.  The timing sometimes makes doing searches 
 over multiple pages, when you don't remember exactly where something was 
 documented, painful.  Sufficiently so that I hand modify downloaded 
 documentation to remove it, and any other scripts that I notice causing 
 a slowdown.  (Translation is worst, but there are a couple of others 
 that are occasionally obtrusive.)
 
 OTOH, if you're already downloading the page from the net that should be 
 much less of a problem...you're already slowed down.



I have considered removing the documentation from the download, in the
interests 
of reducing the download size. That would resolve that problem <g>.
Jul 04 2010
next sibling parent Leandro Lucarella <luca llucax.com.ar> writes:
Walter Bright, el  4 de julio a las 15:03 me escribiste:

 Charles Hixson wrote:

Actually, I *did* complain about it before...in the context of
downloaded documentation.  The timing sometimes makes doing
searches over multiple pages, when you don't remember exactly
where something was documented, painful.  Sufficiently so that I
hand modify downloaded documentation to remove it, and any other
scripts that I notice causing a slowdown.  (Translation is worst,
but there are a couple of others that are occasionally obtrusive.)

OTOH, if you're already downloading the page from the net that
should be much less of a problem...you're already slowed down.


 
 I have considered removing the documentation from the download, in
 the interests of reducing the download size. That would resolve that
 problem <g>.


Apart from the joke, it would be nice to have a different distribution
package for each OS/arch (using a natural packager for each is a plus;
i.e., tar.gz for unixes :).

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (AKA luca)                     http://llucax.com.ar/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Run, rabbit run.
Dig that hole, forget the sun,
And when at last the work is done
Don't sit down it's time to dig another one.
Jul 04 2010
prev sibling parent reply "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net> writes:
On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 01:03:49 +0300, Walter Bright  
<newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 Charles Hixson wrote:

 Actually, I *did* complain about it before...in the context of  
 downloaded documentation.  The timing sometimes makes doing searches  
 over multiple pages, when you don't remember exactly where something  
 was documented, painful.  Sufficiently so that I hand modify downloaded  
 documentation to remove it, and any other scripts that I notice causing  
 a slowdown.  (Translation is worst, but there are a couple of others  
 that are occasionally obtrusive.)
  OTOH, if you're already downloading the page from the net that should  
 be much less of a problem...you're already slowed down.



 I have considered removing the documentation from the download, in the  
 interests of reducing the download size. That would resolve that problem  
 <g>.


I have written an utility to convert D documentation to compiled HTML help  
(.chm), which supports native navigation, search and an index:

http://thecybershadow.net/d/docs/

-- 
Best regards,
  Vladimir                            mailto:vladimir thecybershadow.net
Jul 05 2010
next sibling parent Matthias Pleh <matthias.pleh gmx.at> writes:
Am 05.07.2010 22:43, schrieb Vladimir Panteleev:

 On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 01:03:49 +0300, Walter Bright
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 Charles Hixson wrote:

 Actually, I *did* complain about it before...in the context of
 downloaded documentation. The timing sometimes makes doing searches
 over multiple pages, when you don't remember exactly where something
 was documented, painful. Sufficiently so that I hand modify
 downloaded documentation to remove it, and any other scripts that I
 notice causing a slowdown. (Translation is worst, but there are a
 couple of others that are occasionally obtrusive.)
 OTOH, if you're already downloading the page from the net that should
 be much less of a problem...you're already slowed down.



 I have considered removing the documentation from the download, in the
 interests of reducing the download size. That would resolve that
 problem <g>.


 I have written an utility to convert D documentation to compiled HTML
 help (.chm), which supports native navigation, search and an index:

 http://thecybershadow.net/d/docs/


Hey, that's cool!

I love it :D
Jul 05 2010
prev sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
Vladimir Panteleev Wrote:


 On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 01:03:49 +0300, Walter Bright  
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 

 Charles Hixson wrote:

 Actually, I *did* complain about it before...in the context of  
 downloaded documentation.  The timing sometimes makes doing searches  
 over multiple pages, when you don't remember exactly where something  
 was documented, painful.  Sufficiently so that I hand modify downloaded  
 documentation to remove it, and any other scripts that I notice causing  
 a slowdown.  (Translation is worst, but there are a couple of others  
 that are occasionally obtrusive.)
  OTOH, if you're already downloading the page from the net that should  
 be much less of a problem...you're already slowed down.



 I have considered removing the documentation from the download, in the  
 interests of reducing the download size. That would resolve that problem  
 <g>.


 
 I have written an utility to convert D documentation to compiled HTML help  
 (.chm), which supports native navigation, search and an index:
 
 http://thecybershadow.net/d/docs/
 
 -- 
 Best regards,
   Vladimir                            mailto:vladimir thecybershadow.net


I forgot to say Thanks, since I've been using it for a while. That MS HTML
workshop can be a little buggy sometime, sometimes it works, other times not.
But that's MS's fault.
Jul 05 2010
prev sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
 news:i0nula$bk7$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I didn't see any of the glitchiness or google-translate stuff that 
 other people saw (on IE7, FF2, or Iron). Although, from the 
 screenshot someone else posted of the translate-bar, I'm glad it's 
 not showing up for me. (I really wish people would stop loading up 
 their pages with Google's crap.)


 I like the translate widget! I've always been enamored with the idea 
 of a universal translator.


 There are browser plugins and websites that can handle translation of 
 *any* page, not just pages that the page author has manually embedded 
 it into. And they do it without gunking up the page with unnecessary 
 JS bloat that not everyone's going to need.


 
 I understand your point, I just like to have it right there, and not 
 have to go get toolbars and plugins for every browser I use. Also, 
 nobody ever complained about it before - why now is it suddenly an issue?


The screen real estate allocated to translation is too large. You should 
move it to a less prominent place and make the font smaller. That goes 
about "discuss on wiki" - the font is too large!

Andrei
Jul 04 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of 
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. 
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.
 
 Comments welcome.
 
 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the 
 organization may change.


In FireFox on Windows, with a screen resolution of 1920x1200, if I open 
the page with the window maximized, then the bottom of the translate box 
is behind some of the text. The problem disappears if I shrink the 
window a bit and then maximize again.

http://aldacron.net/img/dsiteff.png
Jul 02 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net> writes:
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 03:55:33 +0300, Walter Bright  
<newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of  
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.  
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.


Because no one thought to do this yet:

http://browsershots.org/http://www.d-programming-language.org/

Now, what's everyone complaining about font sizes? Except for the citation  
block, the font size looks pretty much the same to me on all screenshots  
(except on Firefox 2.x, where they're slightly smaller - you're not using  
that obsolete browser, are you?).

As for my opinion: I like it. I think the faded red background gives the  
website a nice, warm look.

I agree that the contrast of the left navigation column is probably a  
problem for some people, though.
So we can sort this problem faster by testing actual proposals: those who  
complained about the menu contrast, does this look better to you?
http://dump.thecybershadow.net/86eda81285b762eaaa8dff9b29323b9d/brigher_nav.png
(Font color changed to #ccc, hover color to #eee).

Also, please do not add JavaScript page elements that change the page  
layout when loaded. When the Google Translate and "reddit this" buttons  
finish loading, they expand the size of their container, which  
shifts/rewraps the page on the text - which is annoying if I already  
started reading it. (At the very least, fix the size of the floating  
container box, so its size stays constant.)

-- 
Best regards,
  Vladimir                            mailto:vladimir thecybershadow.net
Jul 03 2010
parent reply =?UTF-8?B?IkrDqXLDtG1lIE0uIEJlcmdlciI=?= <jeberger free.fr> writes:
Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 03:55:33 +0300, Walter Bright
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:
=20

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look
 of the D web site. A preview of it is up on
 d-programming-language.org. This isn't about the content, just the
 look/style/feel.


=20
 Because no one thought to do this yet:
=20
 http://browsershots.org/http://www.d-programming-language.org/
=20
 Now, what's everyone complaining about font sizes? Except for the
 citation block, the font size looks pretty much the same to me on all
 screenshots (except on Firefox 2.x, where they're slightly smaller -
 you're not using that obsolete browser, are you?).
=20


	The problem is that font sizes are a personal preference. The main
text of the page should be left at the default in order to pick the
size from the user settings.


 Also, please do not add JavaScript page elements that change the page
 layout when loaded. When the Google Translate and "reddit this" buttons=



 finish loading, they expand the size of their container, which
 shifts/rewraps the page on the text - which is annoying if I already
 started reading it. (At the very least, fix the size of the floating
 container box, so its size stays constant.)
=20


	+1 and remove the google translate bar which appears at the top of
the page if your browser doesn't use english as the default language.

	Other than that, this is a huuge improvement on the current web
site. It looks a lot more serious and professional.

		Jerome
--=20
mailto:jeberger free.fr
http://jeberger.free.fr
Jabber: jeberger jabber.fr
Jul 03 2010
parent reply "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net> writes:
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 12:33:10 +0300, Jérôme M. Berger <jeberger free.fr>  
wrote:


 Now, what's everyone complaining about font sizes? Except for the
 citation block, the font size looks pretty much the same to me on all
 screenshots (except on Firefox 2.x, where they're slightly smaller -
 you're not using that obsolete browser, are you?).


 	The problem is that font sizes are a personal preference. The main
 text of the page should be left at the default in order to pick the
 size from the user settings.


Uhm, maybe my experience in web applications hasn't taught me much, but  
AFAIK that's not how browsers work. Instead of having a "default" font  
value, browsers allow scaling all fonts (or, alternatively, all content  
including images and plugins) by a user-set coefficient. I suppose you  
could edit the default browser stylesheet to set a "default" font size,  
but that would cause inconsistent behavior at best (and will probably  
break the layout on some websites as well).

-- 
Best regards,
  Vladimir                            mailto:vladimir thecybershadow.net
Jul 03 2010
parent reply =?UTF-8?B?IkrDqXLDtG1lIE0uIEJlcmdlciI=?= <jeberger free.fr> writes:
Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 12:33:10 +0300, J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me M. Berger <jeberge=


r free.fr>

 wrote:
=20

 Now, what's everyone complaining about font sizes? Except for the
 citation block, the font size looks pretty much the same to me on all=







 screenshots (except on Firefox 2.x, where they're slightly smaller -
 you're not using that obsolete browser, are you?).


     The problem is that font sizes are a personal preference. The main=





 text of the page should be left at the default in order to pick the
 size from the user settings.


=20
 Uhm, maybe my experience in web applications hasn't taught me much, but=



 AFAIK that's not how browsers work. Instead of having a "default" font
 value, browsers allow scaling all fonts (or, alternatively, all content=



 including images and plugins) by a user-set coefficient. I suppose you
 could edit the default browser stylesheet to set a "default" font size,=



 but that would cause inconsistent behavior at best (and will probably
 break the layout on some websites as well).
=20


	Actually, browsers do both. For example in Firefox, you can go to
Edit->Preferences->Content on Linux (or Tools->Preferences->Contents
on Windows) and you have a pair of fields called "Default Font" and
"Default Font Size" which allow setting a default font. Browsers
have had this feature since I started using the web in 96. Since a
lot of web sites force their own fonts, browsers have added more
recently the ability to zoom on a page (and for some browsers, you
can even remember the zoom level on a page-by-page basis). But this
zoom function is mostly a hack to work around poorly designed web sites.

		Jerome
--=20
mailto:jeberger free.fr
http://jeberger.free.fr
Jabber: jeberger jabber.fr
Jul 03 2010
parent "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net> writes:
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 20:57:42 +0300, Jérôme M. Berger <jeberger free.fr>  
wrote:


 	Actually, browsers do both. For example in Firefox, you can go to
 Edit->Preferences->Content on Linux (or Tools->Preferences->Contents
 on Windows) and you have a pair of fields called "Default Font" and
 "Default Font Size" which allow setting a default font. Browsers
 have had this feature since I started using the web in 96. Since a
 lot of web sites force their own fonts, browsers have added more
 recently the ability to zoom on a page (and for some browsers, you
 can even remember the zoom level on a page-by-page basis). But this
 zoom function is mostly a hack to work around poorly designed web sites.


Thanks, forgot about that one. I guess that creates the dilemma of either  
making your website honor custom settings, or get it to look the same on  
all browsers. I guess d-programming-language.org uses relative font sizes,  
otherwise there wouldn't be so many contradicting complaints about the  
font being either too small or too large...

-- 
Best regards,
  Vladimir                            mailto:vladimir thecybershadow.net
Jul 04 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Johannes Pfau <spam example.com> writes:
On 03.07.2010 02:55, Walter Bright wrote:

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.
 
 Comments welcome.
 
 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the
 organization may change.


I think the new page looks great. Font sizes are fine for me, definitely
not to small.

A few things to look at, though:
-The favicon: Doesn't fit to the new style of the site
-The "Add to or comment on this page on the wiki" box:
 It sometimes hides text of the page, i.e on "D Complex Types vs C++
 std::complex" http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=xlecs1&s=6
-The "Template Comparison" layout is broken here:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=14j27p3&s=6

-- 
Johannes Pfau
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent BLS <windevguy hotmail.de> writes:
On 03/07/2010 02:55, Walter Bright wrote:

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the
 organization may change.


Excellent L&F. Thanks David.

- Remove the funny D(uff) man with a profession D Logo.
- The Library reference should support the same L&F

bjoern
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "JimBob" <jim bob.com> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:i0m1qa$2vad$1 digitalmars.com...

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of 
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This 
 isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the 
 organization may change.


It's a bit bland, lacking in contrast between the colors. Makes me think of 
the colors of desert camoflage.

Look at these

http://www.slate.com/id/2258128/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andean_Condor
http://docs.python.org/py3k/

Then look at

http://www.d-programming-language.org/

Maybe you can see what I mean. Anything that has a lots of text needs more 
contrast between text and background. And generally you find most 
profesional sites have 2 or 3 *different* colors, and then maybe a few more 
shades of those. Not just 3 shades of the same color.
Jul 03 2010
parent Eric Poggel <dnewsgroup yage3d.net> writes:
On 7/3/2010 5:48 AM, JimBob wrote:

 It's a bit bland, lacking in contrast between the colors. Makes me think of
 the colors of desert camoflage.


What if the gray was changed to black?  This would also help the menu 
contrast.  I feel like the orange/red blended with gray looks a little 
muddy.
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright Wrote:


 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of the D 
 web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This isn't
about 
 the content, just the look/style/feel.
 
 Comments welcome.
 
 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the 
 organization may change.


I'm not a fan of those colors. They look very "washed out" to me. 

It might be a good idea to integrate search and display the results inside the
website itself instead of redirecting to a Google page.

Btw., why not post this over at Reddit or someplace to get more user input? I'm
sure there's plenty of web designers over there that could give some good
advice.
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent torhu <no spam.invalid> writes:
On 03.07.2010 02:55, Walter Bright wrote:

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of the D
 web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org. This isn't about
 the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.


Looks ok to me.  Not too keen on the pink background, and the new code 
font is harder to read than the old one.  And I agree with what others 
have said about the low contrast in the sidebar menu.  Other than that, 
it's nicer looking than the old site.  I'm using a laptop running 
Windows 7 and FF 3.6.
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
Looks great in Safari.  I'm not sure what people mean about small fonts, unless
you've already fixed it.  The font size is slightly larger than average on my
laptop, which I actually like.  My only suggestion is that you might want to
play with the brightness of the text in the sidebar.  The contrast is possibly
a tad low, though I understand that the point was to draw attention to the
actual content.
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent mwarning <moritzwarning web.de> writes:
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:55:33 -0700, Walter Bright wrote:


 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.
 
 Comments welcome.
 
 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the
 organization may change.


I like it.
But the translate widget is a bit annoying because it's
quite dominant. Like a coke can in a zen garden.

Can we access those functions (add to wiki, translate page)
with two smallish icons? (with some hover text).
The translation icon could even be removed when English is no the default 
language.
Jul 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply David Gileadi <gileadis NSPMgmail.com> writes:
On 7/2/10 5:55 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the
 organization may change.


Thanks everyone for your feedback.  I sent Walter a new version that 
addresses some of the issues.  In particular the navigation font uses 
Vladimir's suggested colors and the wiki/translate stuff is adjusted to 
hopefully look better.

As Vladimir surmised the font sizes are relative, so they respect your 
system and browser font sizes.  This is supposed to be a "best practice" 
kind of thing but if a majority of folks have trouble then perhaps I can 
switch to fixed font sizes.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and the screenshots--they help a lot.

-Dave
Jul 05 2010
next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 07/05/2010 09:08 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/2/10 5:55 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the
 organization may change.


 Thanks everyone for your feedback. I sent Walter a new version that
 addresses some of the issues.


Feel free to send one to me too, I'll upload it.

Andrei
Jul 05 2010
parent reply David Gileadi <gileadis NSPMgmail.com> writes:
On 7/5/10 8:51 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 07/05/2010 09:08 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 Thanks everyone for your feedback. I sent Walter a new version that
 addresses some of the issues.


 Feel free to send one to me too, I'll upload it.

 Andrei


I'm glad you mentioned this because I CCed you.  I went back and looked 
at it, and sure enough my e-mail failed to include the all-important 
attachment.  I resent.

-Dave
Jul 05 2010
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 07/05/2010 02:33 PM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/5/10 8:51 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 07/05/2010 09:08 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 Thanks everyone for your feedback. I sent Walter a new version that
 addresses some of the issues.


 Feel free to send one to me too, I'll upload it.

 Andrei


 I'm glad you mentioned this because I CCed you. I went back and looked
 at it, and sure enough my e-mail failed to include the all-important
 attachment. I resent.


Uploaded.

Andrei
Jul 05 2010
next sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?B?IkrDqXLDtG1lIE0uIEJlcmdlciI=?= <jeberger free.fr> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 07/05/2010 02:33 PM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/5/10 8:51 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 07/05/2010 09:08 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 Thanks everyone for your feedback. I sent Walter a new version that
 addresses some of the issues.


 Feel free to send one to me too, I'll upload it.

 Andrei


 I'm glad you mentioned this because I CCed you. I went back and looked=





 at it, and sure enough my e-mail failed to include the all-important
 attachment. I resent.


=20
 Uploaded.
=20


	The google translate bar is still there, still appearing after some
time and causing the page to jump down, still wasting valuable
screen real estate and still refusing to stay turned off...

		Jerome
--=20
mailto:jeberger free.fr
http://jeberger.free.fr
Jabber: jeberger jabber.fr
Jul 05 2010
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 07/05/2010 04:24 PM, "Jérôme M. Berger" wrote:

 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 07/05/2010 02:33 PM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/5/10 8:51 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 07/05/2010 09:08 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 Thanks everyone for your feedback. I sent Walter a new version that
 addresses some of the issues.


 Feel free to send one to me too, I'll upload it.

 Andrei


 I'm glad you mentioned this because I CCed you. I went back and looked
 at it, and sure enough my e-mail failed to include the all-important
 attachment. I resent.


 Uploaded.


 	The google translate bar is still there, still appearing after some
 time and causing the page to jump down, still wasting valuable
 screen real estate and still refusing to stay turned off...


It appears on the left-hand side for me.

BTW, I like the readable design of this page: 
http://nickgravgaard.com/elastictabstops/. It's clean and I'm a fan of 
justified alignment. Maybe we should adopt elements from that design.

One thing I find unappealing about the current design is the large 
spacing left and right of the text inset. The space on the right-hand 
side is just... odd. The top spacing is also unsightly.


Andrei
Jul 05 2010
next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Andrei Alexandrescu" <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote in message 
news:i0tn2i$m7f$1 digitalmars.com...

 On 07/05/2010 04:24 PM, "Jérôme M. Berger" wrote:

 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 07/05/2010 02:33 PM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/5/10 8:51 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 07/05/2010 09:08 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 Thanks everyone for your feedback. I sent Walter a new version that
 addresses some of the issues.


 Feel free to send one to me too, I'll upload it.

 Andrei


 I'm glad you mentioned this because I CCed you. I went back and looked
 at it, and sure enough my e-mail failed to include the all-important
 attachment. I resent.


 Uploaded.


 The google translate bar is still there, still appearing after some
 time and causing the page to jump down, still wasting valuable
 screen real estate and still refusing to stay turned off...


 It appears on the left-hand side for me.

 BTW, I like the readable design of this page: 
 http://nickgravgaard.com/elastictabstops/. It's clean and I'm a fan of 
 justified alignment. Maybe we should adopt elements from that design.


The simplicity is nice. Although, the text is absolutely gigantic, and 
sizing it down makes it incrediby blurry (first time I've ever seen blurry 
text in FF2) and the letters are scrunched too close together to read 
easily. Allso there's a little bit *too* much contrast.

I do, however, absolutely love the content of the page :) Elastic Tabstops 
FTW!!
Jul 05 2010
prev sibling parent reply Michel Fortin <michel.fortin michelf.com> writes:
On 2010-07-05 18:41:25 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu 
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> said:


 It appears on the left-hand side for me.


He wasn't talking about that one.

If you set the preferred language of your browser (or in some cases 
your OS) to something else than English, you'll see a big light-blue 
Google Translate bar at the top proposing you to translate the page in 
whatever preferred language you have. If your browser is set to English 
as the preferred language (same as the page), it doesn't appear.

The three screenshots I posted earlier shows what the bar is like:

http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-1.png
http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-2.png
http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-3.png

That was the earlier design, but the bar is still there with this 
improved design and shift everything downwards when it appears, 
approximatively one second after the page has loaded.

-- 
Michel Fortin
michel.fortin michelf.com
http://michelf.com/
Jul 05 2010
parent =?UTF-8?B?IkrDqXLDtG1lIE0uIEJlcmdlciI=?= <jeberger free.fr> writes:
Michel Fortin wrote:

 On 2010-07-05 18:41:25 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> said:
=20

 It appears on the left-hand side for me.


=20
 He wasn't talking about that one.
=20


	No I wasn't. There is a small drop-down box and button in the
left-hand menu which is perfectly fine by me and a large bar on top
which isn't.


 If you set the preferred language of your browser (or in some cases you=


r

 OS) to something else than English, you'll see a big light-blue Google
 Translate bar at the top proposing you to translate the page in whateve=


r

 preferred language you have. If your browser is set to English as the
 preferred language (same as the page), it doesn't appear.
=20
 The three screenshots I posted earlier shows what the bar is like:
=20
 http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-1.png
 http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-2.png
 http://michelf.com/img/shots/d-website-3.png
=20
 That was the earlier design, but the bar is still there with this
 improved design and shift everything downwards when it appears,
 approximatively one second after the page has loaded.
=20


	And what's worse: my browser is configured to accept English, just
at a lower priority. My language settings are set to: fr_FR, fr,
en_GB, en_US, en which should mean that I'm perfectly happy to read
in English if French is not available. I certainly *don't* want to
read an automatic translation!

		Jerome
--=20
mailto:jeberger free.fr
http://jeberger.free.fr
Jabber: jeberger jabber.fr
Jul 06 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Andrei Alexandrescu" <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote in message 
news:i0tg8i$b1b$1 digitalmars.com...

 On 07/05/2010 02:33 PM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/5/10 8:51 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 07/05/2010 09:08 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 Thanks everyone for your feedback. I sent Walter a new version that
 addresses some of the issues.


 Feel free to send one to me too, I'll upload it.

 Andrei


 I'm glad you mentioned this because I CCed you. I went back and looked
 at it, and sure enough my e-mail failed to include the all-important
 attachment. I resent.


 Uploaded.


The search box still has invisible-text-syndrome.
Jul 05 2010
parent reply David Gileadi <gileadis NSPMgmail.com> writes:
On 7/5/10 5:10 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 The search box still has invisible-text-syndrome.


Sorry, fix will be in the next update.
Jul 06 2010
parent "Robert Jacques" <sandford jhu.edu> writes:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 08:09:47 -0400, David Gileadi <gileadis nspmgmail.com>  
wrote:


 On 7/5/10 5:10 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 The search box still has invisible-text-syndrome.


 Sorry, fix will be in the next update.


Also, the page still doesn't render properly when zoomed in Opera.
Jul 06 2010
prev sibling parent reply Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:


 On 07/05/2010 02:33 PM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/5/10 8:51 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 07/05/2010 09:08 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 Thanks everyone for your feedback. I sent Walter a new version that
 addresses some of the issues.


 Feel free to send one to me too, I'll upload it.

 Andrei


 I'm glad you mentioned this because I CCed you. I went back and looked
 at it, and sure enough my e-mail failed to include the all-important
 attachment. I resent.


 
 Uploaded.
 
 Andrei


What's up with the fonts in the code examples? Looks horrible now:
http://imgur.com/SNTlv.jpg

It looked ok before..
Jul 06 2010
parent reply David Gileadi <gileadis NSPMgmail.com> writes:
On 7/6/10 1:02 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

 What's up with the fonts in the code examples? Looks horrible now:
 http://imgur.com/SNTlv.jpg

 It looked ok before..


I tried an experiment: I reasoned that folks would probably only have 
custom programming fonts installed when they use them.  So I changed the 
code font to "Inconsolata, Proggy, Monofur, ProFont, Dina, MonteCarlo, 
Pragmata, Anonymous, Monaco, Consolas, 'Andale Mono', 'Deja Vu Sans 
Mono', 'Courier New', monospace", where most of these are fonts you're 
not likely to have installed and others are commonly-used in IDEs.

If the code font bugs a lot of people I'll change it back to something 
more standard.
Jul 06 2010
next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"David Gileadi" <gileadis NSPMgmail.com> wrote in message 
news:i102r0$2sjr$1 digitalmars.com...

 On 7/6/10 1:02 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

 What's up with the fonts in the code examples? Looks horrible now:
 http://imgur.com/SNTlv.jpg

 It looked ok before..




Except for being really blurry, that screenshot looks fine to me.



 I tried an experiment: I reasoned that folks would probably only have 
 custom programming fonts installed when they use them.  So I changed the 
 code font to "Inconsolata, Proggy, Monofur, ProFont, Dina, MonteCarlo, 
 Pragmata, Anonymous, Monaco, Consolas, 'Andale Mono', 'Deja Vu Sans Mono', 
 'Courier New', monospace", where most of these are fonts you're not likely 
 to have installed and others are commonly-used in IDEs.

 If the code font bugs a lot of people I'll change it back to something 
 more standard.


An interesting idea. However, I suspect a lot of people (like me) have a lot 
of programmer fonts installed because they wanted to try them out, but 
aren't quite happy with most of them. So there's a good chance that will 
pick a bad font. In fact, for me, it looks terrible:

http://www.semitwist.com/download/dLangSiteCodeFont.png

Also, I'm not sure, but I don't think most programmer fonts support 
non-ASCII (or at least non-latin1) chars like the default monospace fonts 
are likely to (like Courier New), so if there's anything non-ASCII in the 
code (which D is supposed to support) then I'm not sure if browsers are 
smart enough to substitute a font that does have the missing character.
Jul 06 2010
prev sibling parent reply torhu <no spam.invalid> writes:
On 06.07.2010 22:14, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/6/10 1:02 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

  What's up with the fonts in the code examples? Looks horrible now:
  http://imgur.com/SNTlv.jpg

  It looked ok before..


 I tried an experiment: I reasoned that folks would probably only have
 custom programming fonts installed when they use them.  So I changed the
 code font to "Inconsolata, Proggy, Monofur, ProFont, Dina, MonteCarlo,
 Pragmata, Anonymous, Monaco, Consolas, 'Andale Mono', 'Deja Vu Sans
 Mono', 'Courier New', monospace", where most of these are fonts you're
 not likely to have installed and others are commonly-used in IDEs.

 If the code font bugs a lot of people I'll change it back to something
 more standard.


I'd prefer just letting the web browser use its default monospaced font. 
Which for Firefox on Windows is Courier New 10 (size 13 in the Mozilla 
system), and that's also what I use for coding.  IE uses the same font 
and size, I assume Chrome has a sensible default too.  I don't know 
about linux or mac.

Using the default font is an easy way to let people choose what font and 
size they prefer for best readability on their screen.  I really wish 
web sites wouldn't mess with the monospaced font, but most of them do. :(
Jul 07 2010
parent reply David Gileadi <gileadis NSPMgmail.com> writes:
On 7/7/10 11:12 AM, torhu wrote:

 On 06.07.2010 22:14, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/6/10 1:02 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

 What's up with the fonts in the code examples? Looks horrible now:
 http://imgur.com/SNTlv.jpg

 It looked ok before..


 I tried an experiment: I reasoned that folks would probably only have
 custom programming fonts installed when they use them. So I changed the
 code font to "Inconsolata, Proggy, Monofur, ProFont, Dina, MonteCarlo,
 Pragmata, Anonymous, Monaco, Consolas, 'Andale Mono', 'Deja Vu Sans
 Mono', 'Courier New', monospace", where most of these are fonts you're
 not likely to have installed and others are commonly-used in IDEs.

 If the code font bugs a lot of people I'll change it back to something
 more standard.


 I'd prefer just letting the web browser use its default monospaced font.
 Which for Firefox on Windows is Courier New 10 (size 13 in the Mozilla
 system), and that's also what I use for coding. IE uses the same font
 and size, I assume Chrome has a sensible default too. I don't know about
 linux or mac.

 Using the default font is an easy way to let people choose what font and
 size they prefer for best readability on their screen. I really wish web
 sites wouldn't mess with the monospaced font, but most of them do. :(


The default monospaced font on the Mac is Courier and is smaller than 
other fonts, so it looks a bit odd.  Despite that I'm pretty well 
convinced by this argument.  Any rebuttals before I make it so?
Jul 07 2010
parent reply Charles Hixson <charleshixsn earthlink.net> writes:
On 07/07/2010 11:51 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/7/10 11:12 AM, torhu wrote:

 On 06.07.2010 22:14, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/6/10 1:02 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

 What's up with the fonts in the code examples? Looks horrible now:
 http://imgur.com/SNTlv.jpg

 It looked ok before..


 I tried an experiment: I reasoned that folks would probably only have
 custom programming fonts installed when they use them. So I changed the
 code font to "Inconsolata, Proggy, Monofur, ProFont, Dina, MonteCarlo,
 Pragmata, Anonymous, Monaco, Consolas, 'Andale Mono', 'Deja Vu Sans
 Mono', 'Courier New', monospace", where most of these are fonts you're
 not likely to have installed and others are commonly-used in IDEs.

 If the code font bugs a lot of people I'll change it back to something
 more standard.


 I'd prefer just letting the web browser use its default monospaced font.
 Which for Firefox on Windows is Courier New 10 (size 13 in the Mozilla
 system), and that's also what I use for coding. IE uses the same font
 and size, I assume Chrome has a sensible default too. I don't know about
 linux or mac.

 Using the default font is an easy way to let people choose what font and
 size they prefer for best readability on their screen. I really wish web
 sites wouldn't mess with the monospaced font, but most of them do. :(


 The default monospaced font on the Mac is Courier and is smaller than
 other fonts, so it looks a bit odd. Despite that I'm pretty well
 convinced by this argument. Any rebuttals before I make it so?


That sounds like a good default.  Is there a way to allow users to 
select a custom monospace font for the pages of this site?  That could 
be even better.  But it would need to only need to be set once.  (I'm 
presuming that this CAN be done, as Distributed Proofreading uses 
something analogous.  But the details are different enough that I'm not 
sure.  (They require that you download their own custom font, install 
it, and then change a configurable user setting.  I'm proposing that 
there just be a configurable user setting, where the user could specify 
any font of his choosing.)
Jul 07 2010
next sibling parent David Gileadi <gileadis NSPMgmail.com> writes:
On 7/7/10 12:36 PM, Charles Hixson wrote:

 On 07/07/2010 11:51 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/7/10 11:12 AM, torhu wrote:

 On 06.07.2010 22:14, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/6/10 1:02 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

 What's up with the fonts in the code examples? Looks horrible now:
 http://imgur.com/SNTlv.jpg

 It looked ok before..


 I tried an experiment: I reasoned that folks would probably only have
 custom programming fonts installed when they use them. So I changed the
 code font to "Inconsolata, Proggy, Monofur, ProFont, Dina, MonteCarlo,
 Pragmata, Anonymous, Monaco, Consolas, 'Andale Mono', 'Deja Vu Sans
 Mono', 'Courier New', monospace", where most of these are fonts you're
 not likely to have installed and others are commonly-used in IDEs.

 If the code font bugs a lot of people I'll change it back to something
 more standard.


 I'd prefer just letting the web browser use its default monospaced font.
 Which for Firefox on Windows is Courier New 10 (size 13 in the Mozilla
 system), and that's also what I use for coding. IE uses the same font
 and size, I assume Chrome has a sensible default too. I don't know about
 linux or mac.

 Using the default font is an easy way to let people choose what font and
 size they prefer for best readability on their screen. I really wish web
 sites wouldn't mess with the monospaced font, but most of them do. :(


 The default monospaced font on the Mac is Courier and is smaller than
 other fonts, so it looks a bit odd. Despite that I'm pretty well
 convinced by this argument. Any rebuttals before I make it so?


 That sounds like a good default. Is there a way to allow users to select
 a custom monospace font for the pages of this site? That could be even
 better. But it would need to only need to be set once. (I'm presuming
 that this CAN be done, as Distributed Proofreading uses something
 analogous. But the details are different enough that I'm not sure. (They
 require that you download their own custom font, install it, and then
 change a configurable user setting. I'm proposing that there just be a
 configurable user setting, where the user could specify any font of his
 choosing.)


Is there a way?  Yes, but it's probably not feasible.  So far as I'm 
aware it would either require Javascript which Walter seems generally 
adverse to as it can slow down page rendering, or would require 
server-side code which would mean all the pages would have to become 
dynamically generated instead of static HTML.  Either way would be a 
fairly large effort.
Jul 07 2010
prev sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Charles Hixson" <charleshixsn earthlink.net> wrote in message 
news:i12l37$1h0r$1 digitalmars.com...

 On 07/07/2010 11:51 AM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/7/10 11:12 AM, torhu wrote:

 On 06.07.2010 22:14, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 7/6/10 1:02 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

 What's up with the fonts in the code examples? Looks horrible now:
 http://imgur.com/SNTlv.jpg

 It looked ok before..


 I tried an experiment: I reasoned that folks would probably only have
 custom programming fonts installed when they use them. So I changed the
 code font to "Inconsolata, Proggy, Monofur, ProFont, Dina, MonteCarlo,
 Pragmata, Anonymous, Monaco, Consolas, 'Andale Mono', 'Deja Vu Sans
 Mono', 'Courier New', monospace", where most of these are fonts you're
 not likely to have installed and others are commonly-used in IDEs.

 If the code font bugs a lot of people I'll change it back to something
 more standard.


 I'd prefer just letting the web browser use its default monospaced font.
 Which for Firefox on Windows is Courier New 10 (size 13 in the Mozilla
 system), and that's also what I use for coding. IE uses the same font
 and size, I assume Chrome has a sensible default too. I don't know about
 linux or mac.

 Using the default font is an easy way to let people choose what font and
 size they prefer for best readability on their screen. I really wish web
 sites wouldn't mess with the monospaced font, but most of them do. :(


 The default monospaced font on the Mac is Courier and is smaller than
 other fonts, so it looks a bit odd. Despite that I'm pretty well
 convinced by this argument. Any rebuttals before I make it so?


 That sounds like a good default.  Is there a way to allow users to select 
 a custom monospace font for the pages of this site?  That could be even 
 better.  But it would need to only need to be set once.  (I'm presuming 
 that this CAN be done, as Distributed Proofreading uses something 
 analogous.  But the details are different enough that I'm not sure.  (They 
 require that you download their own custom font, install it, and then 
 change a configurable user setting.  I'm proposing that there just be a 
 configurable user setting, where the user could specify any font of his 
 choosing.)


It'd be easy if server-scripting is available:

Make a form with a drop-down containing typical font names, plus "Other..." 
and a text-field for "Other". When the user submits the form, set a cookie 
with the chosen font name in it. When their browser requests the CSS file, 
check if the cookie exists and contains a font name and, if so, stick it in 
here: "code { font-family: {customFontNameHere}, monospace; }".

You can do the same thing with DHTML too (set the form button's "onclick" to 
add 'style="font-family:..."' to all the code tags), which would work 
without server-scripting, but that would require JS to be enabled, it 
wouldn't work between sessions, and you'd probably have to keep the user on 
the same page all the time and change all the links to just simply replace 
the page content instead of linking to a new page (I'm not sure that JS by 
itself can maintain any state between pages. If it can, that's news to me. 
Maybe something involving a hidden frame would work? Or if you want to be a 
real asshole to the user, you could use Flash SuperCookies or ActiveX ;) ).

Another idea would be to make the online-docs use the server-scripting 
method, and then for the downloaded docs, add a simple command to the DMD 
distro to build the docs, but have it take an optional "code font name".
Jul 07 2010
next sibling parent =?UTF-8?B?IkrDqXLDtG1lIE0uIEJlcmdlciI=?= <jeberger free.fr> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 You can do the same thing with DHTML too (set the form button's "onclic=


k" to=20

 add 'style=3D"font-family:..."' to all the code tags), which would work=


=20

 without server-scripting, but that would require JS to be enabled, it=20
 wouldn't work between sessions, and you'd probably have to keep the use=


r on=20

 the same page all the time and change all the links to just simply repl=


ace=20

 the page content instead of linking to a new page (I'm not sure that JS=


 by=20

 itself can maintain any state between pages. If it can, that's news to =


me.=20

 Maybe something involving a hidden frame would work? Or if you want to =


be a=20

 real asshole to the user, you could use Flash SuperCookies or ActiveX ;=


) ).

=20


	It's possible with a very little JS and mostly static html. Check
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/alternate/ for something similar.

		Jerome
--=20
mailto:jeberger free.fr
http://jeberger.free.fr
Jabber: jeberger jabber.fr
Jul 07 2010
prev sibling parent reply Adam Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On 7/7/10, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

 (I'm not sure that JS by
 itself can maintain any state between pages. If it can, that's news to me.


Javascript can set and retreive its own cookies. My homepage uses a
javascript gimmick with cookies to change its whole stylesheet.
http://arsdnet.net/ bottom of the left menu, needs javascript. Note
that the "classic" link removes the sidebar, so probably best not to
click it.

Note that it sets a cookie to remember your preference as you move
around the site, which is all static html.



IMO, the ideal way for users to choose their own font is to not bother
with any special code at all. People who want different fonts can just
change their browser settings. If your code says "monospace" and a
user says "that font sucks", you're complete in the right (if you ask
me) to reply "fix your browser".
Jul 07 2010
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Adam Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.297.1278538315.24349.digitalmars-d-announce puremagic.com...

 On 7/7/10, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

 (I'm not sure that JS by
 itself can maintain any state between pages. If it can, that's news to 
 me.


 Javascript can set and retreive its own cookies. My homepage uses a
 javascript gimmick with cookies to change its whole stylesheet.
 http://arsdnet.net/ bottom of the left menu, needs javascript. Note
 that the "classic" link removes the sidebar, so probably best not to
 click it.

 Note that it sets a cookie to remember your preference as you move
 around the site, which is all static html.


Interesting, I was wondering about that. I assume that still works if the 
page is served via "file:///" instead of "http://"?


 IMO, the ideal way for users to choose their own font is to not bother
 with any special code at all. People who want different fonts can just
 change their browser settings. If your code says "monospace" and a
 user says "that font sucks", you're complete in the right (if you ask
 me) to reply "fix your browser".


Can't say I disagree. (Although, if the site tries to use a size or style 
that the user's chosen monospace font happens to not handle well, then the 
situation's a little more complex...man, the web sucks...)
Jul 07 2010
prev sibling parent =?UTF-8?B?IkrDqXLDtG1lIE0uIEJlcmdlciI=?= <jeberger free.fr> writes:
David Gileadi wrote:

 As Vladimir surmised the font sizes are relative, so they respect your
 system and browser font sizes.  This is supposed to be a "best practice=


"

 kind of thing but if a majority of folks have trouble then perhaps I ca=


n

 switch to fixed font sizes.
=20


	No, font sizes should be relative. But they should be set so that
the main body of text is at 100%, no more no less.

		Jerome
--=20
mailto:jeberger free.fr
http://jeberger.free.fr
Jabber: jeberger jabber.fr
Jul 05 2010
prev sibling parent Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 03/07/2010 01:55, Walter Bright wrote:

 David Gileadi was kind enough to spend some time redesigning the look of
 the D web site. A preview of it is up on d-programming-language.org.
 This isn't about the content, just the look/style/feel.

 Comments welcome.

 Please don't put links to anything other than the front page yet, as the
 organization may change.


Can't say I'm too found of the dark black/grey background around. I 
think something lighter would be better.

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Jul 08 2010