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digitalmars.D.announce - D User Survey

reply WebFreak001 <d.forum webfreak.org> writes:
Hi everyone,

I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and 
it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I think 
it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more anonymous 
data on users. I'm also open for changing some questions if there 
is confusion.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform
Dec 01 2017
next sibling parent reply Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On 12/1/17 1:56 PM, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 
 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and it would 
 be great if you took some time and answered it. I think it will greatly 
 benefit D as a whole if we had more anonymous data on users. I'm also 
 open for changing some questions if there is confusion.
 
 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1s
6NvN6VErBw/viewform 
 


"In what language did you learn D?" => spoken language. Took me a minute 
to figure this out :)

I partway filled out this survey, but not sure if I should finish it. It 
seems geared towards people who just learned D recently. Much of this 
stuff isn't applicable to me. For instance you have "Quality of 
resources to learn D", almost all of that wasn't available when I 
learned it :)

-Steve
Dec 01 2017
next sibling parent "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> writes:
On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 02:28:22PM -0500, Steven Schveighoffer via
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:

 On 12/1/17 1:56 PM, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 
 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and it
 would be great if you took some time and answered it. I think it
 will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more anonymous data on
 users. I'm also open for changing some questions if there is
 confusion.
 
 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform
 


 
 "In what language did you learn D?" => spoken language. Took me a
 minute to figure this out :)


Yeah, I almost wanted to write "D". :-D



 I partway filled out this survey, but not sure if I should finish it.
 It seems geared towards people who just learned D recently. Much of
 this stuff isn't applicable to me. For instance you have "Quality of
 resources to learn D", almost all of that wasn't available when I
 learned it :)


I finished it anyway, just to skew the data set a bit in my direction.
:-D


T

-- 
If you look at a thing nine hundred and ninety-nine times, you are perfectly
safe; if you look at it the thousandth time, you are in frightful danger of
seeing it for the first time. -- G. K. Chesterton
Dec 01 2017
prev sibling parent WebFreak001 <d.forum webfreak.org> writes:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 19:28:22 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer 
wrote:

 On 12/1/17 1:56 PM, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 
 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) 
 and it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.
 
 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform
 


 "In what language did you learn D?" => spoken language. Took me 
 a minute to figure this out :)

 I partway filled out this survey, but not sure if I should 
 finish it. It seems geared towards people who just learned D 
 recently. Much of this stuff isn't applicable to me. For 
 instance you have "Quality of resources to learn D", almost all 
 of that wasn't available when I learned it :)

 -Steve


Well new technologies are always on the rise, for example before 
you probably wouldn't have written Android or Objective-C D 
applications, but then wanted to learn it and the survey there is 
just to give an overview over the quality & availability of D 
tutorials in these fields.

Fixed spoken language
Dec 01 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=c3=87ehreli?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:
On 12/01/2017 10:56 AM, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 
 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and it would 
 be great if you took some time and answered it. I think it will greatly 
 benefit D as a whole if we had more anonymous data on users. I'm also 
 open for changing some questions if there is confusion.
 
 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1s
6NvN6VErBw/viewform 
 


Suggestions for clarification:

- Country+City does not mean much for US. I think it's better to put 
e.g. "California, US" as country and e.g. "Mountain View" is city.

- I have two primary languages: Fully Turkish at home and among Turkish 
people and English outside. :)

- "know about" and "used it before" are distinct groups of people. 
Unless you are looking for two numbers, remove one of those phrases.

- "In what language did you learn D?" Please make that "spoken 
language". Otherwise, "language" in a language survey can be confusing. :)

- dconf.org is missing from the repos

Ali
Dec 01 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent WebFreak001 <d.forum webfreak.org> writes:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and 
 it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform


We have over 25 responses now. I have slightly changed the 
survey, if you had entered USA or United States in the form, 
please update your answer to the dropdown value "United States of 
America (USA)" if you still have the edit link in your history
Dec 01 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent Mengu <mengukagan gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and 
 it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform


great idea, just finished the survey.
Dec 01 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent user1234 <user1234 12.nl> writes:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and 
 it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform


Yeah nice initiative.There's something similar for Nim and about 
this i remember that there was a question about the number of 
source line of code, 0 to 1000, 1000 to 10000, etc... but it's 
too late i 
think.(https://nim-lang.org/blog/2016/09/03/community-survey-results-2016.html)
Dec 01 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Patrick Schluter <Patrick.Schluter bbox.fr> writes:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and 
 it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform


You will have to massage the data a bit. The spelling of words 
created more diverse answers than necessary. Everyone learned D 
in english but there are 7 different columns listed (English, 
ENGLISH, edglish, eglish etc.)
Dec 01 2017
next sibling parent WebFreak001 <d.forum webfreak.org> writes:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 22:28:12 UTC, Patrick Schluter 
wrote:

 On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) 
 and it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform


 You will have to massage the data a bit. The spelling of words 
 created more diverse answers than necessary. Everyone learned D 
 in english but there are 7 different columns listed (English, 
 ENGLISH, edglish, eglish etc.)


yeah for countries I fixed that already, I thought adding a regex 
making people capitalize the words would unify it but instead 
they write all caps...
Dec 01 2017
prev sibling parent =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=c3=87ehreli?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:
On 12/01/2017 02:28 PM, Patrick Schluter wrote:


 there are 7 different columns listed (English, ENGLISH, edglish, eglish
 etc.)


At least D is easy to spell! :p

Ali
Dec 01 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Basile B. <b2.temp gmx.com> writes:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and 
 it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform


Why did you put Coedit as a choice among the open source projects 
people has contributed to ? Actually it got only 1 real 
contribution, something like 3 years ago. You will understand 
that I have laughed a bit when i have seen it...there was so many 
other possible choices...and the worst is: it's not written in D.

¯\_(👁_ʖ👁)_/¯
Dec 01 2017
parent WebFreak001 <d.forum webfreak.org> writes:
On Saturday, 2 December 2017 at 07:33:19 UTC, Basile B. wrote:

 On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 [...]


 Why did you put Coedit as a choice among the open source 
 projects people has contributed to ? Actually it got only 1 
 real contribution, something like 3 years ago. You will 
 understand that I have laughed a bit when i have seen 
 it...there was so many other possible choices...and the worst 
 is: it's not written in D.

 ¯\_(👁_ʖ👁)_/¯


I gathered that list by list of D projects on github sorted by 
stars + on the wiki the most prominent ones on a few pages
Dec 02 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2017-12-01 19:56, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 
 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and it would 
 be great if you took some time and answered it. I think it will greatly 
 benefit D as a whole if we had more anonymous data on users. I'm also 
 open for changing some questions if there is confusion.
 
 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1s
6NvN6VErBw/viewform 
 


"How many of your colleagues used D before?"

Before what?

For the questions about OS/distro, I think you should add "FreeBSD" as 
an alternative. It's one of the officially supported platforms.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Dec 02 2017
parent reply WebFreak001 <d.forum webfreak.org> writes:
On Saturday, 2 December 2017 at 09:16:55 UTC, Jacob Carlborg 
wrote:

 On 2017-12-01 19:56, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 
 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) 
 and it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.
 
 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform
 


 "How many of your colleagues used D before?"

 Before what?

 For the questions about OS/distro, I think you should add 
 "FreeBSD" as an alternative. It's one of the officially 
 supported platforms.


yeah added that because it had 3 votes. I used that like "did you 
use D before?" as in "did you ever use D?"
Dec 02 2017
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2017-12-02 10:30, WebFreak001 wrote:

 On Saturday, 2 December 2017 at 09:16:55 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2017-12-01 19:56, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and it 
 would be great if you took some time and answered it. I think it will 
 greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more anonymous data on users. 
 I'm also open for changing some questions if there is confusion.

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1s
6NvN6VErBw/viewform 


 "How many of your colleagues used D before?"

 Before what?

 For the questions about OS/distro, I think you should add "FreeBSD" as 
 an alternative. It's one of the officially supported platforms.


 
 I used that like "did you use D before?" as in "did you ever use D?"


Then I would phrase that as "How many of your colleagues have used D 
before?" or "How many of your colleagues have tried D".

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Dec 02 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2017-12-01 19:56, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 
 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and it would 
 be great if you took some time and answered it. I think it will greatly 
 benefit D as a whole if we had more anonymous data on users. I'm also 
 open for changing some questions if there is confusion.
 
 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1s
6NvN6VErBw/viewform 


I think the questions about how easy it was and the quality of the 
learning material were a bit difficult to answer. For someone like me 
that learned D 10+ years ago, how should I answer those questions? How 
it was back then, or how I think it's now? For the former it might not 
be very useful because the landscape was very different back then. For 
the latter it's difficult to answer because I already now D and how to 
find the resources.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Dec 02 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and 
 it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.



Truth be told I find survey largely irrelevant.
What my gender or some such have to do with D? Or my job? What do 
we want to understand from that - “teenagers w/o like D language 
more?” or some such nonsense?

I despise demographic style surveys, ask technical aspects 
instead, it would be 10x more informative.


 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform
Dec 02 2017
parent reply Chris <wendlec tcd.ie> writes:
On Saturday, 2 December 2017 at 19:11:31 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky 
wrote:


 Truth be told I find survey largely irrelevant.
 What my gender or some such have to do with D? Or my job? What 
 do we want to understand from that - “teenagers w/o like D 
 language more?” or some such nonsense?

 I despise demographic style surveys, ask technical aspects 
 instead, it would be 10x more informative.


Yeah, it's too personal (job, company, gender). Questions should 
concentrate on technical aspects.

Btw, the country I reside in is not on the list: Ireland. It's 
neither listed as Ireland nor as Republic of Ireland (the 
official name in English) nor as Éire / Poblacht na hÉireann (the 
official name in Irish). I checked with the search function to be 
sure to be sure :-) I didn't know Ireland was so unknown, unless, 
of course, I'm supposed to choose "Great Britain".
Dec 07 2017
next sibling parent reply user1234 <user1234 12.nl> writes:
On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 14:31:01 UTC, Chris wrote:

 On Saturday, 2 December 2017 at 19:11:31 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky 
 wrote:


 Truth be told I find survey largely irrelevant.
 What my gender or some such have to do with D? Or my job? What 
 do we want to understand from that - “teenagers w/o like D 
 language more?” or some such nonsense?

 I despise demographic style surveys, ask technical aspects 
 instead, it would be 10x more informative.


 Yeah, it's too personal (job, company, gender). Questions 
 should concentrate on technical aspects.


Survey techniques are a science after all. Google provides you 
the tools but without methodology it's peanuts. I suppose that 
this survey just allows you to locate yourself among the 
community, although it was already well known that D is more used 
in Europe and mostly by adults. I mean that the results cannot be 
used to change the development guide lines.

Only interesting Q:
- How did you learn D ? : yes, it shows for example that 
tour.dlang.org has gained its place.
- What is your PRIMARY /SECONDARY area of development where you 
focus on D ? maybe interesting to detect something that's not 
worth improving in the language. But bad formulation.
- How would you rate your experience with D compared to other 
languages? Yes, may show if D is generating D-language-centered 
people.

and few others. Average SLOC per project would have been 
interesting too. TIme spent per day.
Dec 07 2017
parent reply Chris <wendlec tcd.ie> writes:
On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 18:22:46 UTC, user1234 wrote:


 Survey techniques are a science after all. Google provides you 
 the tools but without methodology it's peanuts. I suppose that 
 this survey just allows you to locate yourself among the 
 community, although it was already well known that D is more 
 used in Europe and mostly by adults. I mean that the results 
 cannot be used to change the development guide lines.


Yep. D seems to be quite popular in Europe. I wonder why that is, 
given that it originated in the USA and people in the States are 
more open to new technologies. What were the technical and social 
factors at work here? Maybe D wasn't fancy enough to be taken 
seriously in the USA and maybe people from outside the USA (not 
only in Europe) looked at it and said "Hold on, that's something 
interesting...and we can contribute to it." D certainly struck a 
chord with many programmers around the globe, but what is it 
exactly? (Please no jokes about D major or D minor chords now ;)
Dec 08 2017
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa)" <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On 12/08/2017 05:53 AM, Chris wrote:

 
 Yep. D seems to be quite popular in Europe. I wonder why that is, given 
 that it originated in the USA and people in the States are more open to 
 new technologies. What were the technical and social factors at work 
 here? Maybe D wasn't fancy enough to be taken seriously in the USA and 
 maybe people from outside the USA (not only in Europe) looked at it and 
 said "Hold on, that's something interesting...and we can contribute to 
 it." D certainly struck a chord with many programmers around the globe, 
 but what is it exactly? (Please no jokes about D major or D minor chords 
 now ;)


Speaking as a US citizen, it's long been my observation that americans 
(and I only mean collectively, of course, it's difficult to generalize 
down to individuals since that varies greatly) tend to be far more 
conservative than one would assume them to be.

Just as one example: The various genres of electronic music. Always 
succeeded far better in europe than they ever did the US. Americans 
would hear it and just bitch about "soulless", "doesn't require musical 
talent" and other such [nonsence]. But turn on (for example) BBC's Top 
Gear and they had recognizable Prodigy, Crystal Method, etc all over the 
place. And heck, most of Fluke's catalog isn't even available in the US. 
That sort of stuff just doesn't sell very well over here. Americans like 
their "three main acoustic cords" and steady simple 4/4 beats.

Even "silicon vally" isn't quite so much "open to new technology" as it 
is driven primarily by buzz and popularity.

And then there's the last presidential election, which, and I don't mean 
this to be snarky, just honest observation: it clearly demonstrated 
there's far more white tra...*cough*...umm..."ultra-conservatives" here 
than anyone ever thought.

 From what I hear, we're one of the few remaining industrialized nations 
that has capital punishment. Whether that's good/bad is completely 
beside the point here, the point being: Either way, it's undeniably 
conservative.

Despite perhaps tipping my hand a bit, I really don't mean any of that 
as ranting at all, just illustrating that it DOES make sense that europe 
would be more open to D than the US:

Because the US *is* paradoxically much more conservative than one would 
expect from a relatively young country that produces as much software 
and electronics as it does. Whether that conservativeness is 
good/bad/other is open to opinion, but either way, it is what it is, and 
I think D's higher rate of success elsewhere can be traced to that.
Dec 08 2017
next sibling parent reply SomeRandomUser <down2now yahoo.com> writes:
On Friday, 8 December 2017 at 22:22:14 UTC, Nick Sabalausky 
(Abscissa) wrote:

 On 12/08/2017 05:53 AM, Chris wrote:

 [...]


 Speaking as a US citizen, it's long been my observation that 
 americans (and I only mean collectively, of course, it's 
 difficult to generalize down to individuals since that varies 
 greatly) tend to be far more conservative than one would assume 
 them to be.

 Just as one example: The various genres of electronic music. 
 Always succeeded far better in europe than they ever did the 
 US. Americans would hear it and just bitch about "soulless", 
 "doesn't require musical talent" and other such [nonsence]. But 
 turn on (for example) BBC's Top Gear and they had recognizable 
 Prodigy, Crystal Method, etc all over the place. And heck, most 
 of Fluke's catalog isn't even available in the US. That sort of 
 stuff just doesn't sell very well over here. Americans like 
 their "three main acoustic cords" and steady simple 4/4 beats.

 Even "silicon vally" isn't quite so much "open to new 
 technology" as it is driven primarily by buzz and popularity.

 And then there's the last presidential election, which, and I 
 don't mean this to be snarky, just honest observation: it 
 clearly demonstrated there's far more white 
 tra...*cough*...umm..."ultra-conservatives" here than anyone 
 ever thought.

 From what I hear, we're one of the few remaining industrialized 
 nations that has capital punishment. Whether that's good/bad is 
 completely beside the point here, the point being: Either way, 
 it's undeniably conservative.

 Despite perhaps tipping my hand a bit, I really don't mean any 
 of that as ranting at all, just illustrating that it DOES make 
 sense that europe would be more open to D than the US:

 Because the US *is* paradoxically much more conservative than 
 one would expect from a relatively young country that produces 
 as much software and electronics as it does. Whether that 
 conservativeness is good/bad/other is open to opinion, but 
 either way, it is what it is, and I think D's higher rate of 
 success elsewhere can be traced to that.


Isn't that just culture (music) how popular is American Country 
music in Europe?  I have met one person that liked it.  Trump is 
hardly an ultra-conservative (not to mention the various groups 
of conservatism social, fiscal, neo, etc..).  Alot of the whites 
u mentioned voted for Obama last time around and are just scared 
of globalism and knew the alternative would push further down 
that path.  Not all D users look at forums and while I do agree 
their are far more users visible in Europe that doesn't mean it's 
not used here as well.
Dec 08 2017
parent "Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa)" <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On 12/08/2017 08:00 PM, SomeRandomUser wrote:

 
 Isn't that just culture (music) how popular is American Country music in 
 Europe?  I have met one person that liked it.  Trump is hardly an 
 ultra-conservative (not to mention the various groups of conservatism 
 social, fiscal, neo, etc..).  Alot of the whites u mentioned voted for 
 Obama last time around and are just scared of globalism and knew the 
 alternative would push further down that path.  Not all D users look at 
 forums and while I do agree their are far more users visible in Europe 
 that doesn't mean it's not used here as well.


All the details are certainly debatable, and I won't claim to be 
well-versed enough in sociology, politics, etc to get into such details 
(nor would I really want to in a D.announce sub-thread - apologies if 
that sounds like back-peddling), but it's just a certain theme I've 
noticed that, from this insider at least, in my personal observation the 
country doesn't seem to be quite as progressive as it may appear to be 
(or claim to be), or as one might assume it to be (the super bowl nipple 
thing is another example), and my hypothesis is that could account for 
the US vs Europe D-uptake discrepency. But, of course one thing that 
*is* certain is that the US has a lot of both ulta-liberal, 
ultra-conservative, and everythintg in-between (and probably plenty of 
extremes on some other axes as well!). So grain of salt in hand, in any 
case, it's just a thought.
Dec 08 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent user1234 <user1234 12.nl> writes:
On Friday, 8 December 2017 at 22:22:14 UTC, Nick Sabalausky 
(Abscissa) wrote:

 On 12/08/2017 05:53 AM, Chris wrote:

 
 Yep. D seems to be quite popular in Europe. I wonder why that 
 is, given that it originated in the USA and people in the 
 States are more open to new technologies. What were the 
 technical and social factors at work here? Maybe D wasn't 
 fancy enough to be taken seriously in the USA and maybe people 
 from outside the USA (not only in Europe) looked at it and 
 said "Hold on, that's something interesting...and we can 
 contribute to it." D certainly struck a chord with many 
 programmers around the globe, but what is it exactly? (Please 
 no jokes about D major or D minor chords now ;)


 Speaking as a US citizen, it's long been my observation that 
 americans (and I only mean collectively, of course, it's 
 difficult to generalize down to individuals since that varies 
 greatly) tend to be far more conservative than one would assume 
 them to be.

 Just as one example: The various genres of electronic music. 
 Always succeeded far better in europe than they ever did the 
 US. Americans would hear it and just bitch about "soulless", 
 "doesn't require musical talent" and other such [nonsence]. But 
 turn on (for example) BBC's Top Gear and they had recognizable 
 Prodigy, Crystal Method, etc all over the place. And heck, most 
 of Fluke's catalog isn't even available in the US. That sort of 
 stuff just doesn't sell very well over here. Americans like 
 their "three main acoustic cords" and steady simple 4/4 beats.

 Even "silicon vally" isn't quite so much "open to new 
 technology" as it is driven primarily by buzz and popularity.

 And then there's the last presidential election, which, and I 
 don't mean this to be snarky, just honest observation: it 
 clearly demonstrated there's far more white 
 tra...*cough*...umm..."ultra-conservatives" here than anyone 
 ever thought.

 From what I hear, we're one of the few remaining industrialized 
 nations that has capital punishment. Whether that's good/bad is 
 completely beside the point here, the point being: Either way, 
 it's undeniably conservative.

 Despite perhaps tipping my hand a bit, I really don't mean any 
 of that as ranting at all, just illustrating that it DOES make 
 sense that europe would be more open to D than the US:

 Because the US *is* paradoxically much more conservative than 
 one would expect from a relatively young country that produces 
 as much software and electronics as it does. Whether that 
 conservativeness is good/bad/other is open to opinion, but 
 either way, it is what it is, and I think D's higher rate of 
 success elsewhere can be traced to that.


There are interesting stuff in your comment but i think we're 
going off-topic.
Let's no go too far, the point, initially, is that survey is not 
good.
In no way it should be used to split ourselves.
Dec 09 2017
prev sibling parent Mengu <mengukagan gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 8 December 2017 at 22:22:14 UTC, Nick Sabalausky 
(Abscissa) wrote:

 On 12/08/2017 05:53 AM, Chris wrote:

 [...]


 Speaking as a US citizen, it's long been my observation that 
 americans (and I only mean collectively, of course, it's 
 difficult to generalize down to individuals since that varies 
 greatly) tend to be far more conservative than one would assume 
 them to be.

 [...]


this is exactly my observation on HN.
Dec 10 2017
prev sibling parent reply wobbles <grogan.colin gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 14:31:01 UTC, Chris wrote:
  I didn't know Ireland was so

 unknown, unless, of course, I'm supposed to choose "Great 
 Britain".


I also hated myself for clicking Great Britain :-)
Dec 09 2017
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa)" <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On 12/09/2017 07:58 AM, wobbles wrote:

 On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 14:31:01 UTC, Chris wrote:
   I didn't know Ireland was so

 unknown, unless, of course, I'm supposed to choose "Great Britain".


 
 I also hated myself for clicking Great Britain :-)


As an outsider, I'm curious about this. My (perhaps innacurate?) 
understanding was that "Great Britain" was more a geographical term 
referring to everything on the islands rather than a political boundary 
(as opposed to "UK" which is purely a political concept and includes 
some, but not all, of the countries on the same islands). Is that not 
enitrely correct? Or is that exactly the the part that's uncomfortable - 
that it's a "Country" field which lacks the actual country name and only 
offers a geographic collection in its place?
Dec 10 2017
next sibling parent reply Jonathan M Davis <newsgroup.d jmdavisprog.com> writes:
On Sunday, December 10, 2017 04:02:46 Nick Sabalausky  via Digitalmars-d-
announce wrote:

 On 12/09/2017 07:58 AM, wobbles wrote:

 On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 14:31:01 UTC, Chris wrote:
   I didn't know Ireland was so


 unknown, unless, of course, I'm supposed to choose "Great Britain".


 I also hated myself for clicking Great Britain :-)


 As an outsider, I'm curious about this. My (perhaps innacurate?)
 understanding was that "Great Britain" was more a geographical term
 referring to everything on the islands rather than a political boundary
 (as opposed to "UK" which is purely a political concept and includes
 some, but not all, of the countries on the same islands). Is that not
 enitrely correct? Or is that exactly the the part that's uncomfortable -
 that it's a "Country" field which lacks the actual country name and only
 offers a geographic collection in its place?


Well, the wikipedia entry for Great Britain takes the clear stance that it's
the island that's Great Britain, and that when Great Britain is referred to
politically, it's the 3 countries on the island and does not include any
part of Ireland. It also lists the full name of the UK as being the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_britain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

So, technically, Ireland is not part of Great Britain at all, but sometimes,
folks do end up including Northern Ireland in what they mean when they use
the term - and plenty of folks outside of the UK probably get it wrong all
the time.

- Jonathan M Davis
Dec 10 2017
parent Chris <wendlec tcd.ie> writes:
On Sunday, 10 December 2017 at 13:06:34 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
wrote:

 Well, the wikipedia entry for Great Britain takes the clear 
 stance that it's the island that's Great Britain, and that when 
 Great Britain is referred to politically, it's the 3 countries 
 on the island and does not include any part of Ireland. It also 
 lists the full name of the UK as being the United Kingdom of 
 Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_britain 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

 So, technically, Ireland is not part of Great Britain at all, 
 but sometimes, folks do end up including Northern Ireland in 
 what they mean when they use the term - and plenty of folks 
 outside of the UK probably get it wrong all the time.

 - Jonathan M Davis


There are two political entities in Ireland, the Republic of 
Ireland (which is a member of the European Union) and Northern 
Ireland (which, being part of the UK, will leave the EU after 
Brexit). Thus, to use only "Ireland" would be wrong (it has to be 
Republic of Ireland), but how the ROI could be left out is a 
mystery to me.

Anyway, I know that people in the Americas (including Latin 
America) are usually faster to pick up on things like Facebook, 
Twitter, WhatsApp etc. But these are backend technologies, if you 
wish. It seems to me that at the moment companies and programmers 
in the USA are much more reluctant to adopt or explore new paths 
as regards the front end (the programming language in this case). 
I don't think it is to do with political / social conservatism, 
as this didn't stop engineers in the US to explore new 
technologies in the past either, and the Nazis were big into 
technology too. There is not necessarily a link between political 
/ social conservatism and lack of technological progress (there 
can be).

Maybe it is a certain laziness / complacency, since the USA no 
longer feel the pressure of having to be "the best" as they did 
during the cold war. Maybe this sort of complacency also has to 
do with the fact the for decades the US would make sure that 
their allies would only buy their technologies, so there was no 
real competition, no real challenge there (which partly explains 
the success of Microsoft). But now with China and other big 
players having entered the pitch, there is more pressure again, 
and if anything, a more "conservative"* approach that tries to 
relocate companies within the national borders might actually 
give innovation a boost.

*It's not so much being "conservative" as an understandable 
reaction to globalization gone out of hand.
Dec 11 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent Abdulhaq <alynch4047 gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 10 December 2017 at 09:02:46 UTC, Nick Sabalausky 
(Abscissa) wrote:

 On 12/09/2017 07:58 AM, wobbles wrote:

 On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 14:31:01 UTC, Chris wrote:
   I didn't know Ireland was so

 unknown, unless, of course, I'm supposed to choose "Great 
 Britain".


 
 I also hated myself for clicking Great Britain :-)


 As an outsider, I'm curious about this. My (perhaps 
 innacurate?) understanding was that "Great Britain" was more a 
 geographical term referring to everything on the islands rather 
 than a political boundary (as opposed to "UK" which is purely a 
 political concept and includes some, but not all, of the 
 countries on the same islands). Is that not enitrely correct? 
 Or is that exactly the the part that's uncomfortable - that 
 it's a "Country" field which lacks the actual country name and 
 only offers a geographic collection in its place?


I am half English and half Irish (Kilkenny).

The English occupied / (occupy) Ireland and it was / (is) very 
unpopular. Hence an Irishman will not enjoy having to associate 
himself with his (former / current) occupiers.
Dec 10 2017
prev sibling parent Russel Winder <russel winder.org.uk> writes:
On Sun, 2017-12-10 at 04:02 -0500, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) via
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:

 On 12/09/2017 07:58 AM, wobbles wrote:

 On Thursday, 7 December 2017 at 14:31:01 UTC, Chris wrote:
   I didn't know Ireland was so

 unknown, unless, of course, I'm supposed to choose "Great Britain".


=20
 I also hated myself for clicking Great Britain :-)


=20
 As an outsider, I'm curious about this. My (perhaps innacurate?)=20
 understanding was that "Great Britain" was more a geographical term=20
 referring to everything on the islands rather than a political boundary=


=20

 (as opposed to "UK" which is purely a political concept and includes=20
 some, but not all, of the countries on the same islands). Is that not=20
 enitrely correct? Or is that exactly the the part that's uncomfortable -=


=20

 that it's a "Country" field which lacks the actual country name and only=


=20

 offers a geographic collection in its place?


The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Well fo=
r
now, let's see what happens come 2019-03-30.

Great Britiain is technically the geographical thing, the island and
surrounding islands that are politically Scotland, Wales, and England. Wale=
s
was effectively annexed by England long ago. Scotland joined with England
via the Act of Union 1707.

Northern Ireland is the result of the termination of the English occupation
of Ireland. The 1921 separation of Ireland that allowed the Irish Free Stat=
e
to form in 1922. Basically it separated the unionists and the republicans s=
o
the republicans could get on with life as a self determining political
entity.

Many international organisations have confused everyone about the labels,
UK, Great Britain, GB, GBR, especially in Internet circles and in sport.

Wikipedia is mostly not entirely wrong on this stuff.

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder     t:+44 20 7585 2200   voip:sip:
russel.winder ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Road   m:+44 7770 465 077   xmpp:russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK  w: www.russel.org.uk skype:russel_winder
Dec 11 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent qznc <qznc web.de> writes:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and 
 it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform


The age results look interesting. It seems that the D community 
is relatively old. Tried to find a comparison, but the Rust 
survey seems to not ask for the age.
Dec 04 2017
prev sibling parent reply Guillaume Piolat <first.last gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) and 
 it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform


How to see the results if you have already filled it?
Dec 04 2017
parent user1234 <user1234 12.nl> writes:
On Monday, 4 December 2017 at 21:22:39 UTC, Guillaume Piolat 
wrote:

 On Friday, 1 December 2017 at 18:56:50 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I made a public survey (everyone can look at the responses) 
 and it would be great if you took some time and answered it. I 
 think it will greatly benefit D as a whole if we had more 
 anonymous data on users. I'm also open for changing some 
 questions if there is confusion.

 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewform


 How to see the results if you have already filled it?


Hi i don't if it based on a token so it may be invalid when 
you'll read this:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPFx9ebHJ05QSW1VypBsQPw-1RbZ1v8FMgo1su6NvN6VErBw/viewanalytics

but working for now (9 AM - Paris local time)
Dec 05 2017