digitalmars.D.announce - D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting Summary (September 24, 2021)
- Mike Parker (69/69) Oct 01 2021 Attendees:
- Konstantin (4/15) Oct 01 2021 Offtopic:
- max haughton (4/21) Oct 01 2021 Mike is editing it at the moment. It will probably go into the
- Konstantin (3/25) Oct 02 2021 Thank you, Max! Do I understand correctly, that roadmap section
- max haughton (3/29) Oct 02 2021 Most likely, but we will get it on the home page as well so it
- Konstantin (3/25) Jan 13 2022 Hello, Max!
- Mike Parker (17/19) Jan 13 2022 I posted a note about it in a meeting summary or a blog post
- Konstantin (3/23) Jan 14 2022 Thanks, Mike!
- Alexey (2/3) Oct 01 2021 feature X ? D got it yesterday!
- Imperatorn (3/14) Oct 02 2021 This is great. Been waiting for this to happen.
- James Blachly (15/27) Oct 03 2021 1. "Move fast"
- bauss (2/5) Oct 04 2021 It seems like D itself is moving away from GC everywhere too.
- =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=c3=87ehreli?= (8/10) Oct 05 2021 I am going off-topic but I feel I have to make a correction there.
- Imperatorn (3/14) Oct 03 2021 I don't have a slogan in mind. But it would be nice if it could
- Ki Rill (25/26) Oct 04 2021 These are great news! As for the new slogan, I believe we need to
- Imperatorn (2/8) Oct 04 2021 Very curious what code that was.
- IGotD- (15/22) Oct 04 2021 That's a classic with C++ and static arrays. C++ now has the STL
- WebFreak001 (4/7) Oct 05 2021 want to generate controversial heat?
- Ben Jones (5/12) Oct 12 2021 How about "from prototype to production" or something? I was
- Imperatorn (2/17) Oct 19 2021 Kinda like this one
- Andrea Fontana (3/10) Oct 19 2021 You mean:
- WebFreak001 (2/15) Oct 19 2021 That's awesome! using that as my discord status now.
- ag0aep6g (3/4) Oct 12 2021 Gettin' it Done.
Attendees: Andrei Alexandrescu Walter Bright Iain Buclaw Ali Çehreli Max Haughton Martin Kinkelin Mathias Lang Razvan Nitu Mike Parker (Átila Neves was on vacation in an area with limited internet access) The primary item on the agenda for this meeting was a governance proposal from Mathias Lang. Modeled on [Python's PEP 13](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/), the proposal was to establish a self-governing Core Team (CT) of unlimited size, and a five-member Steering Committee (SC) elected annually by the CT. The CT would take on all management and decision-making responsibilities, subject to veto by the SC. The proposal set out a basic set of procedures and responsibilities for each team, including the establishment of Working Groups within the core team to focus on specific areas (i.e., compiler development, dub, DIPs, etc.). We spent the majority of the meeting discussing the pros and cons of such a structure. Among the points discussed, a major pro and a major con stand out: formalizing governance can potentially bring more order and structure to the day-to-day management of the language and the ecosystem (pro); there's a risk of Walter and being pushed out of the decision making process (con). In the end, we agreed that some sort of formalized committee that brings more order to the ecosystem is worth pursuing, but that decisions regarding development of the language should be left in the hands of Walter and Átila. Given that membership in the monthly meetings has expanded over time, and the quarterly meetings include industry reps using D in production, we already have a skeleton of the Core Team outlined in Mathias's proposal. Mathias agreed to go back to the drawing board and draft a new proposal that is smaller in scope and better suited to the size of our community. The goal is to take what we already have and formalize a process for organizing work on priority tasks, managing resources, drafting volunteers, etc., (in other words, a team that can manage the ecosystem), while leaving language design decisions to Walter and Átila. I will assist Mathias in drawing up the proposal and we will present it at a future foundation meeting (I anticipate November). A topic that came up in course of the discussion was pull requests blocking on feedback from Walter or Átila. As a remedy, Razvan will be sending periodic updates to them with a list of PRs that require their feedback. Walter is also open to once- or twice-month-meetings with contributors to resolve pull-requests through in-person discussion. We agreed to establish a page on dlang.org that lists the core team members so there's no doubt who is involved in the management process. Walter would like to establish a new slogan, or tagline, for D. He asked us all to think about this for a future meeting. (Ali has since solicited some good advice from a relative who is a professional marketer that has gotten us on the right track.) Our next meeting will take place on October 22nd at 13:00 UTC. This will be a quarterly meeting, so the industry reps will be present. As always, if anyone has anything they'd like me to put on the meeting agenda, please let me know beforehand. I don't know for sure if we'll be able to fit anything onto this month's meeting, though. These meetings can run long if the industry reps have anything big to discuss, and we're going to have a major item on the foundation's agenda that I expect will consume most of post-industry portion of the meeting (`-preview=in`). But if you have something, I'll see what I can do.
Oct 01 2021
On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:Attendees: Andrei Alexandrescu Walter Bright Iain Buclaw Ali Çehreli Max Haughton Martin Kinkelin Mathias Lang Razvan Nitu Mike Parker [...]Offtopic: Are there any plans to publish the roadmap for the language and stdlib development on wiki or elsewhere?
Oct 01 2021
On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 21:48:23 UTC, Konstantin wrote:On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:Mike is editing it at the moment. It will probably go into the foundation Ddoc sources (Not a huge of the wiki since it's not tracked in git)Attendees: Andrei Alexandrescu Walter Bright Iain Buclaw Ali Çehreli Max Haughton Martin Kinkelin Mathias Lang Razvan Nitu Mike Parker [...]Offtopic: Are there any plans to publish the roadmap for the language and stdlib development on wiki or elsewhere?
Oct 01 2021
On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 23:53:46 UTC, max haughton wrote:On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 21:48:23 UTC, Konstantin wrote:Thank you, Max! Do I understand correctly, that roadmap section will be available at https://dlang.org/foundation/index.htmlOn Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:Mike is editing it at the moment. It will probably go into the foundation Ddoc sources (Not a huge of the wiki since it's not tracked in git)Attendees: Andrei Alexandrescu Walter Bright Iain Buclaw Ali Çehreli Max Haughton Martin Kinkelin Mathias Lang Razvan Nitu Mike Parker [...]Offtopic: Are there any plans to publish the roadmap for the language and stdlib development on wiki or elsewhere?
Oct 02 2021
max haughton <maxhaton gmail.com> On Saturday, 2 October 2021 at 08:48:10 UTC, Konstantin wrote:On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 23:53:46 UTC, max haughton wrote:Most likely, but we will get it on the home page as well so it can't be missed.On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 21:48:23 UTC, Konstantin wrote:Thank you, Max! Do I understand correctly, that roadmap section will be available at https://dlang.org/foundation/index.htmlOn Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:Mike is editing it at the moment. It will probably go into the foundation Ddoc sources (Not a huge of the wiki since it's not tracked in git)Attendees: Andrei Alexandrescu Walter Bright Iain Buclaw Ali Çehreli Max Haughton Martin Kinkelin Mathias Lang Razvan Nitu Mike Parker [...]Offtopic: Are there any plans to publish the roadmap for the language and stdlib development on wiki or elsewhere?
Oct 02 2021
On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 23:53:46 UTC, max haughton wrote:On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 21:48:23 UTC, Konstantin wrote:Hello, Max! Are there any news or estimates about the roadmap?On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:Mike is editing it at the moment. It will probably go into the foundation Ddoc sources (Not a huge of the wiki since it's not tracked in git)Attendees: Andrei Alexandrescu Walter Bright Iain Buclaw Ali Çehreli Max Haughton Martin Kinkelin Mathias Lang Razvan Nitu Mike Parker [...]Offtopic: Are there any plans to publish the roadmap for the language and stdlib development on wiki or elsewhere?
Jan 13 2022
On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 06:12:51 UTC, Konstantin wrote:Hello, Max! Are there any news or estimates about the roadmap?I posted a note about it in a meeting summary or a blog post (can't remember where) a few weeks ago. But the short of it: in the process of revising it, I realized it needs a complete rewrite. The document we ended up with isn't what we said we wanted. The rewrite will be a high priority for me once I wrap up the DConf Online Q & A videos and get the DIP queue moving again. I'll need more input from other people, and the time that takes is never predictable, but I intend to get it published in the first quarter of this year. And for the record, it's *not* a roadmap (assuming roadmap means a step-by-step plan for language evolution). It's broader than that. The intent is to outline Walter's and Atila's current focus, their longer-term goals, and areas where contributors can direct their efforts. It's a living document that will evolve as priorities change.
Jan 13 2022
On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 07:14:25 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:On Friday, 14 January 2022 at 06:12:51 UTC, Konstantin wrote:Thanks, Mike! I will be waiting for news!Hello, Max! Are there any news or estimates about the roadmap?I posted a note about it in a meeting summary or a blog post (can't remember where) a few weeks ago. But the short of it: in the process of revising it, I realized it needs a complete rewrite. The document we ended up with isn't what we said we wanted. The rewrite will be a high priority for me once I wrap up the DConf Online Q & A videos and get the DIP queue moving again. I'll need more input from other people, and the time that takes is never predictable, but I intend to get it published in the first quarter of this year. And for the record, it's *not* a roadmap (assuming roadmap means a step-by-step plan for language evolution). It's broader than that. The intent is to outline Walter's and Atila's current focus, their longer-term goals, and areas where contributors can direct their efforts. It's a living document that will evolve as priorities change.
Jan 14 2022
On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:new sloganfeature X ? D got it yesterday!
Oct 01 2021
On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:Attendees: Andrei Alexandrescu Walter Bright Iain Buclaw Ali Çehreli Max Haughton Martin Kinkelin Mathias Lang Razvan Nitu Mike Parker [...]This is great. Been waiting for this to happen. And yes, we need a new slogan 😅
Oct 02 2021
On 10/1/21 8:32 AM, Mike Parker wrote:Walter would like to establish a new slogan, or tagline, for D. He asked us all to think about this for a future meeting. (Ali has since solicited some good advice from a relative who is a professional marketer that has gotten us on the right track.)1. "Move fast" Pros: More succinct than "Write fast code, fast" or whatever the old slogan was. Still captures the essence of both speed of execution and ease of writing. Potential tie-in to D-Rocket logo. Cons: Potential association with silicon valley phrase "move fast and break things". 2. "Future code" Pros: Association with the idea that we are often at the leading edge of new features which are later incorporated into other languages. May also carry the implication that D is great language for the reader to learn in the future. Potential tie-in to space and mars theme. Cons: Could be open to criticism that garbage collected language is not "the future," but this would likely be a tiny number of detractors.... As always, if anyone has anything they'd like me to put on the meeting agenda, please let me know beforehand. I don't know for sure if we'll be able to fit anything onto this month's meeting, though. These meetings can run long if the industry reps have anything big to discuss, and we're going to have a major item on the foundation's agenda that I expect will consume most of post-industry portion of the meeting (`-preview=in`). But if you have something, I'll see what I can do.Thanks for doing these writeups as community liaison.
Oct 03 2021
On Sunday, 3 October 2021 at 21:24:31 UTC, James Blachly wrote:Cons: Could be open to criticism that garbage collected language is not "the future," but this would likely be a tiny number of detractors.It seems like D itself is moving away from GC everywhere too.
Oct 04 2021
On 10/3/21 2:24 PM, James Blachly wrote:Cons: Potential association with silicon valley phrase "move fast and break things".I am going off-topic but I feel I have to make a correction there. As a person who worked and lived in Silicon Valley since 1996 (since 1994 in the greater Bay Area), I can safely claim that that phrase has never been a Silicon Valley phrase. It was used by Facebook in their less enlightened days (a business that may arguably be associated with Silicon Valley by their postal address). Ali
Oct 05 2021
On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:Attendees: Andrei Alexandrescu Walter Bright Iain Buclaw Ali Çehreli Max Haughton Martin Kinkelin Mathias Lang Razvan Nitu Mike Parker [...]I don't have a slogan in mind. But it would be nice if it could capture the plasticity of the language somehow
Oct 03 2021
On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:[...]These are great news! As for the new slogan, I believe we need to put some emphasis on D's modelling power. If I come up with something decent, I'll post it. Meanwhile: (1) Reliable, fast. (2) Safe, not strict. (3) Smooth start, deploy. (1) - "no" unexpected surprises, improved memory safety, easy to catch bugs such as trying to index a pointer in a safe function, out-of-bounds array write/read and similar; an almost instantaneous compilation, performance similar to that of C/C++. (2) - continuing from (1), it's safe, but you make the final choice how far you want to go. (3) - it's "relatively" easy to start a new project in D using DUB: `dub init/add/run`. Need a library that's not available in DUB? Create a D interface to C header file and use it. There are tools that can automate this process, etc. I put "..." because it's not always the case. About (1): I've written some C++ code recently. I was very happy with the code. I've read the code multiple times in search for potential bugs and errors. I decided to rewrite some of the code in D just to see the difference code-wise and performance-wise. Guess what happened? It didn't compile. I got out-of-bounds access error in D meanwhile the C++ version ran happily with no sign of any failure.
Oct 04 2021
On Monday, 4 October 2021 at 15:44:11 UTC, Ki Rill wrote:On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:Very curious what code that was.[...]These are great news! As for the new slogan, I believe we need to put some emphasis on D's modelling power. If I come up with something decent, I'll post it. [...]
Oct 04 2021
On Monday, 4 October 2021 at 15:44:11 UTC, Ki Rill wrote:About (1): I've written some C++ code recently. I was very happy with the code. I've read the code multiple times in search for potential bugs and errors. I decided to rewrite some of the code in D just to see the difference code-wise and performance-wise. Guess what happened? It didn't compile. I got out-of-bounds access error in D meanwhile the C++ version ran happily with no sign of any failure.That's a classic with C++ and static arrays. C++ now has the STL array which is standard now but who cares because not many know about it and there so many ways to do the same things in C++ you get lost. Also, it's ugly. In the case for D, I think D is a "sky is the limit" kind of language. D handles so many different areas, from low level to rather high level quite nicely. However, this together with one of the best metaprogramming out there, the versatility of the language is really among the highest. Now, the metaprogramming in C++ is just as powerful but not many people can handle it and they tend to avoid more complicated solutions. With D, metaprogramming is much more approachable and tasks that the programmer was unable to do in C++ can be done in D relatively easy.
Oct 04 2021
On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:[...] new slogan [...]want to generate controversial heat? Do it in D (DIID) (careful with there being a trademark for DiiD though)
Oct 05 2021
On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 06:23:01 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:How about "from prototype to production" or something? I was reading yesterday about how both memcached and redis were originally written in scripting languages and then rewritten in C for performance.[...] new slogan [...]want to generate controversial heat? Do it in D (DIID) (careful with there being a trademark for DiiD though)
Oct 12 2021
On Tuesday, 12 October 2021 at 19:21:50 UTC, Ben Jones wrote:On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 06:23:01 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:Kinda like this oneOn Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:How about "from prototype to production" or something? I was reading yesterday about how both memcached and redis were originally written in scripting languages and then rewritten in C for performance.[...] new slogan [...]want to generate controversial heat? Do it in D (DIID) (careful with there being a trademark for DiiD though)
Oct 19 2021
On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 06:23:01 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:You mean: Just D it[...] new slogan [...]want to generate controversial heat? Do it in D (DIID) (careful with there being a trademark for DiiD though)
Oct 19 2021
On Tuesday, 19 October 2021 at 16:17:43 UTC, Andrea Fontana wrote:On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 06:23:01 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:That's awesome! using that as my discord status now.On Friday, 1 October 2021 at 12:32:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:You mean: Just D it[...] new slogan [...]want to generate controversial heat? Do it in D (DIID) (careful with there being a trademark for DiiD though)
Oct 19 2021
On 01.10.21 14:32, Mike Parker wrote:Walter would like to establish a new slogan, or tagline, for D.Gettin' it Done. (Enunciated like Doom's "Rip and tear until it is done.")
Oct 12 2021