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digitalmars.D.announce - DConf Day 1 Talk 6: Case Studies in Simplifying Code with Compile-Time

reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
https://news.ycombinator.com/newest

https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/867399893273693

https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/478588866321203200

http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/28am0x/case_studies_in_simplifying_code_with_compiletime/


Andrei
Jun 16 2014
next sibling parent simendsjo <simendsjo gmail.com> writes:
On 06/16/2014 07:27 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


Why not put "DConf 2014" in the title too?
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
The reddit response this year hasn't been particularly impressive 
it seems to me compared to last year :(
Jun 16 2014
next sibling parent reply "Dicebot" <public dicebot.lv> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 22:14:01 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 The reddit response this year hasn't been particularly 
 impressive it seems to me compared to last year :(


I have found many of talks this year incredibly interesting for 
actual D users but not as "catchy" for something that passes by. 
Also lot of stuff has been discussed live in #d and ustream chat 
room.

Or r/programming is just so saturated with links that something 
that does not fit into "tl; dr" paragraph does not get any 
attention :)
Jun 16 2014
parent reply "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 22:23:31 UTC, Dicebot wrote:

 I have found many of talks this year incredibly interesting for 
 actual D users but not as "catchy" for something that passes 
 by. Also lot of stuff has been discussed live in #d and ustream 
 chat room.


Yeah.


 Or r/programming is just so saturated with links that something 
 that does not fit into "tl; dr" paragraph does not get any 
 attention :)


It could be that it isn't on the youtube right off too. I posted 
there saying I tried the ogv and it was awful and the mp4 was too 
big... so maybe other people aren't inclined to bother with the 
downloads either.


BTW I tried posting the link to the sample chapter of my book in 
this too since it talks about reflection and the post seems to 
have just disappeared. I think I triggered reddits comment spam 
filter :(
Jun 16 2014
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/16/2014 8:38 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 BTW I tried posting the link to the sample chapter of my book in this too since
 it talks about reflection and the post seems to have just disappeared. I think
I
 triggered reddits comment spam filter :(


I gave up posting links on reddit years ago - every one gets deleted as spam, 
and then I have to beg the moderators to de-spam it.
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2014-06-17 05:38, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 22:23:31 UTC, Dicebot wrote:

 I have found many of talks this year incredibly interesting for actual
 D users but not as "catchy" for something that passes by. Also lot of
 stuff has been discussed live in #d and ustream chat room.


 Yeah.


 Or r/programming is just so saturated with links that something that
 does not fit into "tl; dr" paragraph does not get any attention :)


 It could be that it isn't on the youtube right off too. I posted there
 saying I tried the ogv and it was awful and the mp4 was too big... so
 maybe other people aren't inclined to bother with the downloads either.


I don't really like archive.org, it's incredibly slow compared to 
youtube. I prefer to download instead of streaming. Downloading from 
youtube takes around a minute (HD quality). Downloading from archive.org 
takes at least half an hour.

I don't see why it's not uploaded to youtube directly.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jun 18 2014
parent reply "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 18 June 2014 at 18:50:40 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 Downloading from youtube takes around a minute (HD quality).


Your internet must be a lot faster than mine :P I only get about 
2 Mbps down so I like to get a lower quality file that downloads 
faster but still plays reliably... youtube seems to handle it 
well automatically.


 I don't see why it's not uploaded to youtube directly.


yeah idk
Jun 18 2014
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2014-06-18 21:45, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:


 Your internet must be a lot faster than mine :P I only get about 2 Mbps
 down so I like to get a lower quality file that downloads faster but
 still plays reliably... youtube seems to handle it well automatically.


My connection is specified to 10 Mbps. But it depends on how large the 
files are. Most of the files from DConf are under around 350MB in HD 
quality. On the other hand, Andrei's talk from LangNext 2014 is 1.3 GB 
and 48 minutes long while the talk by Bjarne is 2.8 GB and 68 minutes long.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jun 19 2014
prev sibling parent reply "Mengu" <mengukagan gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 22:14:01 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 The reddit response this year hasn't been particularly 
 impressive it seems to me compared to last year :(


r/programming and hn is all about rust and go. on hn many d posts 
are invisible after some time. i believe mods are taking action 
there. if we want their attention, we should compare d with 
others; we should benchmark d and brag about the results etc. 
other than that, people are not paying attention to D and it's 
beautiful features.

and also the genius idea to post each talk seperately instead of 
having a nice talks page on dconf.org and providing a link for 
that. i'd understand the keynotes but for the rest of the talks 
this is / was not a good idea.
Jun 17 2014
next sibling parent reply "Tofu Ninja" <emmons0 purdue.edu> writes:
On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 17:10:16 UTC, Mengu wrote:

 and also the genius idea to post each talk seperately instead 
 of having a nice talks page on dconf.org and providing a link 
 for that. i'd understand the keynotes but for the rest of the 
 talks this is / was not a good idea.


I think the hope was that it would attract more views overall. I 
think what was not taken into account was the way Reddit post get 
viewed, having their up votes spread out among the different 
posts is much worse than pooling them as the reddit posts are far 
less likely to be viewed with low up vote counts. Also its 
annoying for us who just want to watch the talks.

A much better strategy would have been a full release of all the 
talks followed with a reddit post of all of them to get the large 
burst up front, then after wards have individual posts for each 
video to get the staggering as well. It would effectively doubled 
each videos exposure(reddit is all reposts any ways so its all 
the better :P).
Jun 17 2014
parent "Kapps" <opantm2+spam gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 22:00:42 UTC, Tofu Ninja wrote:

 On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 17:10:16 UTC, Mengu wrote:

 and also the genius idea to post each talk seperately instead 
 of having a nice talks page on dconf.org and providing a link 
 for that. i'd understand the keynotes but for the rest of the 
 talks this is / was not a good idea.


 I think the hope was that it would attract more views overall. 
 I think what was not taken into account was the way Reddit post 
 get viewed, having their up votes spread out among the 
 different posts is much worse than pooling them as the reddit 
 posts are far less likely to be viewed with low up vote counts. 
 Also its annoying for us who just want to watch the talks.

 A much better strategy would have been a full release of all 
 the talks followed with a reddit post of all of them to get the 
 large burst up front, then after wards have individual posts 
 for each video to get the staggering as well. It would 
 effectively doubled each videos exposure(reddit is all reposts 
 any ways so its all the better :P).


According to Andrei's talk, it worked quite effectively last year 
based off the increased number of compiler downloads per month 
immediately following DConf. And I do think that it does work 
better as well, though have no evidence for that besides the 
number of downloads that Andrei said.
Jun 18 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Joakim" <dlang joakim.airpost.net> writes:
On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 17:10:16 UTC, Mengu wrote:

 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 22:14:01 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 The reddit response this year hasn't been particularly 
 impressive it seems to me compared to last year :(


 r/programming and hn is all about rust and go. on hn many d 
 posts are invisible after some time. i believe mods are taking 
 action there. if we want their attention, we should compare d 
 with others; we should benchmark d and brag about the results 
 etc. other than that, people are not paying attention to D and 
 it's beautiful features.


I don't know why people bother with those silly sites, which I 
don't read at all unless they're linked here.  None of these 
benchmarks or other links matter.  Nobody paid attention to ruby 
for a decade, until David Hansson built rails with it.

I have seen over and over again that nobody has the ability to 
reason about an idea or tool like this.  You have to build 
something better with it, something they want, then they'll all 
flock to use or copy it.

You want to show how great D is, build something great with it.  
Nothing else matters.


 and also the genius idea to post each talk seperately instead 
 of having a nice talks page on dconf.org and providing a link 
 for that. i'd understand the keynotes but for the rest of the 
 talks this is / was not a good idea.


Don't you know that it's better to maintain a steady stream of 
publicity for D on sites full of people who always dismiss it, 
rather than making the talks available immediately to the people 
who actually use D and want to watch them?

endSarcasm();

I don't mind it as much, because I'm not bingeing on the talks 
and spreading out watching them instead, but it'd be nice to see 
the talks I missed on the livestream and want to watch now, 
rather than at some indeterminate date in the future.
Jun 17 2014
next sibling parent "safety0ff" <safety0ff.dev gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 22:09:06 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 I don't mind it as much, because I'm not bingeing on the talks 
 and spreading out watching them instead, but it'd be nice to 
 see the talks I missed on the livestream and want to watch now, 
 rather than at some indeterminate date in the future.


I just wish they would release the day 3 afternoon talks sooner 
since I (as well as others) missed them.
Jun 17 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Meta" <jared771 gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 22:09:06 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 Don't you know that it's better to maintain a steady stream of 
 publicity for D on sites full of people who always dismiss it, 
 rather than making the talks available immediately to the 
 people who actually use D and want to watch them?


"Every day until you like it."
Jun 17 2014
prev sibling parent "John" <john.joyus gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 22:09:06 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 Nobody paid attention to ruby for a decade, until David Hansson 
 built rails with it.


I am hoping the vibe.d will do that magic to D.
I need support for MS SQL Server to use it in production though.
Jun 18 2014
prev sibling parent reply "Saurabh Das" <saurabh.das gmail.com> writes:
I find it impossible to even find the posts on HN. Within a few 
hours of them being posted by Andrei, they are buried 4-5 pages 
deep in the 'new' section with very few upvotes.

Last year I saw most of the talks (DConf13) on HN and 
r/programming. This year I find them only on this forum because 
the talks are not staying up on HN or r/p front pages for much 
time.

Saurabh

On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 17:10:16 UTC, Mengu wrote:

 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 22:14:01 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 The reddit response this year hasn't been particularly 
 impressive it seems to me compared to last year :(


 r/programming and hn is all about rust and go. on hn many d 
 posts are invisible after some time. i believe mods are taking 
 action there. if we want their attention, we should compare d 
 with others; we should benchmark d and brag about the results 
 etc. other than that, people are not paying attention to D and 
 it's beautiful features.

 and also the genius idea to post each talk seperately instead 
 of having a nice talks page on dconf.org and providing a link 
 for that. i'd understand the keynotes but for the rest of the 
 talks this is / was not a good idea.
Jun 18 2014
parent reply "Joakim" <dlang joakim.airpost.net> writes:
On Thursday, 19 June 2014 at 03:23:15 UTC, Saurabh Das wrote:

 I find it impossible to even find the posts on HN. Within a few 
 hours of them being posted by Andrei, they are buried 4-5 pages 
 deep in the 'new' section with very few upvotes.


This search for DConf finds 5 of the 7 talks posted so far:

https://hn.algolia.com/#!/story/past_month/prefix/0/dconf

None have any comments and most have practically no votes, so 
that explains why you didn't find them on there.  Two other talks 
were not labeled DConf for some reason, but only the Meyers talk, 
which wasn't about D, had any comments or much votes:

https://hn.algolia.com/#!/story/past_month/prefix/0/meyers


 Last year I saw most of the talks (DConf13) on HN and 
 r/programming. This year I find them only on this forum because 
 the talks are not staying up on HN or r/p front pages for much 
 time.


There has been some suggestion that they are being moderated 
down.  The Reddit postings get about a hundred votes, not sure if 
that's much on their site, as I don't use it.  If you're aware of 
this forum, not sure why you're going there anyway.

On Thursday, 19 June 2014 at 11:04:25 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 My connection is specified to 10 Mbps. But it depends on how 
 large the files are. Most of the files from DConf are under 
 around 350MB in HD quality. On the other hand, Andrei's talk 
 from LangNext 2014 is 1.3 GB and 48 minutes long while the talk 
 by Bjarne is 2.8 GB and 68 minutes long.


There are also 740 and 65.8 MB encodings of Andrei's talk that 
are perfectly usable.  I should know, as I downloaded the latter. 
  Same for Bjarne's talk, which I haven't downloaded.
Jun 19 2014
next sibling parent reply "Joakim" <dlang joakim.airpost.net> writes:
 On Thursday, 19 June 2014 at 11:04:25 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 My connection is specified to 10 Mbps. But it depends on how 
 large the files are. Most of the files from DConf are under 
 around 350MB in HD quality. On the other hand, Andrei's talk 
 from LangNext 2014 is 1.3 GB and 48 minutes long while the 
 talk by Bjarne is 2.8 GB and 68 minutes long.


 There are also 740 and 65.8 MB encodings of Andrei's talk that 
 are perfectly usable.  I should know, as I downloaded the 
 latter.
  Same for Bjarne's talk, which I haven't downloaded.


Sorry, I just noticed that you were only talking about "HD 
quality."  I don't know where you're getting the 350 MB figure, 
as all the HD recordings on archive.org are about 6-800 GB, but 
yeah, file sizes will vary based on the type of HD resolution and 
encoding used.  I wouldn't call any hour-long video encoded into 
350 MB "HD quality" though, as it's likely so compressed as to 
look muddy.
Jun 19 2014
next sibling parent "Joakim" <dlang joakim.airpost.net> writes:
On Thursday, 19 June 2014 at 12:16:20 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 Sorry, I just noticed that you were only talking about "HD 
 quality."  I don't know where you're getting the 350 MB figure, 
 as all the HD recordings on archive.org are about 6-800 GB, but


600 to 800 MB, not GB. :)
Jun 19 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2014-06-19 14:16, Joakim wrote:


 Sorry, I just noticed that you were only talking about "HD quality."  I
 don't know where you're getting the 350 MB figure, as all the HD
 recordings on archive.org are about 6-800 GB, but yeah, file sizes will
 vary based on the type of HD resolution and encoding used.  I wouldn't
 call any hour-long video encoded into 350 MB "HD quality" though, as
 it's likely so compressed as to look muddy.


If I recall correctly, this talk, uploaded to youtube by Dicebot, was 
around 350 MB, HD quality.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jun 20 2014
parent reply "Dicebot" <public dicebot.lv> writes:
On Friday, 20 June 2014 at 21:44:16 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2014-06-19 14:16, Joakim wrote:


 Sorry, I just noticed that you were only talking about "HD 
 quality."  I
 don't know where you're getting the 350 MB figure, as all the 
 HD
 recordings on archive.org are about 6-800 GB, but yeah, file 
 sizes will
 vary based on the type of HD resolution and encoding used.  I 
 wouldn't
 call any hour-long video encoded into 350 MB "HD quality" 
 though, as
 it's likely so compressed as to look muddy.


 If I recall correctly, this talk, uploaded to youtube by 
 Dicebot, was around 350 MB, HD quality.


I always upload highest quality available on archive.org (634.3 
MB for this one), YouTube re-encoding must be pretty good :)
Jun 20 2014
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2014-06-20 23:48, Dicebot wrote:


 I always upload highest quality available on archive.org (634.3 MB for
 this one), YouTube re-encoding must be pretty good :)


I have no idea. I'm using the video downloader add-on in Firefox and I 
chose "HD mp4". But even if it was 634.3 MB it's still quite far form 
2.8 GB which the talk by Bjarne was. It's only 20 minutes longer.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jun 21 2014
prev sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 6/19/14, 5:16 AM, Joakim wrote:

 On Thursday, 19 June 2014 at 11:04:25 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 My connection is specified to 10 Mbps. But it depends on how large
 the files are. Most of the files from DConf are under around 350MB in
 HD quality. On the other hand, Andrei's talk from LangNext 2014 is
 1.3 GB and 48 minutes long while the talk by Bjarne is 2.8 GB and 68
 minutes long.


 There are also 740 and 65.8 MB encodings of Andrei's talk that are
 perfectly usable.  I should know, as I downloaded the latter.
  Same for Bjarne's talk, which I haven't downloaded.


 Sorry, I just noticed that you were only talking about "HD quality."  I
 don't know where you're getting the 350 MB figure, as all the HD
 recordings on archive.org are about 6-800 GB, but yeah, file sizes will
 vary based on the type of HD resolution and encoding used.  I wouldn't
 call any hour-long video encoded into 350 MB "HD quality" though, as
 it's likely so compressed as to look muddy.


I use archive.org because it's the only I found that accepts 
full-resolution videos. -- Andrei
Jun 20 2014
next sibling parent "ed" <gmail gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 20 June 2014 at 22:04:37 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I use archive.org because it's the only I found that accepts 
 full-resolution videos. -- Andrei


A bit off-topic but I just found this while searching around 
archive.org with `subject:"D Programming"`

https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_univacunivng1959_9057395

I love the fact that UNIVAC has more breakpoints available than 
the AVR32 devices we use at work!

Cheers,
ed
Jun 21 2014
prev sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2014-06-21 00:04, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:


 I use archive.org because it's the only I found that accepts
 full-resolution videos. -- Andrei


Youtube supports 4k resolution, is that good enough :). All videos from 
RailsConf 2014 was uploaded to youtube in 1080p resolution.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jun 21 2014
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/21/2014 6:15 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 Youtube supports 4k resolution, is that good enough :). All videos from
 RailsConf 2014 was uploaded to youtube in 1080p resolution.


For presentation videos, I don't see any point to hi res. DVD quality is more 
than good enough.
Jun 21 2014
next sibling parent "Tofu Ninja" <emmons0 purdue.edu> writes:
On Saturday, 21 June 2014 at 20:02:56 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 6/21/2014 6:15 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 Youtube supports 4k resolution, is that good enough :). All 
 videos from
 RailsConf 2014 was uploaded to youtube in 1080p resolution.


 For presentation videos, I don't see any point to hi res. DVD 
 quality is more than good enough.


See thats the great thing about youtube, even if you upload it in 
high res, the users can select the quality they want, so really 
there is no reason not to just upload the best and let the user 
decide.
Jun 21 2014
prev sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 6/21/14, 1:02 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 6/21/2014 6:15 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 Youtube supports 4k resolution, is that good enough :). All videos from
 RailsConf 2014 was uploaded to youtube in 1080p resolution.


 For presentation videos, I don't see any point to hi res. DVD quality is
 more than good enough.


Slides can get awfully blurry in low res. -- Andrei
Jun 22 2014
prev sibling parent reply "Dicebot" <public dicebot.lv> writes:
On Thursday, 19 June 2014 at 12:08:39 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 There has been some suggestion that they are being moderated 
 down.  The Reddit postings get about a hundred votes, not sure 
 if that's much on their site, as I don't use it.  If you're 
 aware of this forum, not sure why you're going there anyway.


I'd say this is typical vote count for something that no one 
really cares about but is not considered crappy waste of time :) 
Top 20 of a months ends with ~700 points right now.

http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/25yw89/dash_an_opensource_gam
_engine_coded_in_d/ 
- this has gathered 250 being top voted entry about D lately.

I like how 
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/274ugg/introducing_swift/ 
got 150 votes and 
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/287r4i/smashing_swift/ 
got 250 :D
Jun 19 2014
parent Ben Boeckel via Digitalmars-d-announce writes:
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 17:14:54 +0000, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d-announce
wrote:

 I'd say this is typical vote count for something that no one 
 really cares about but is not considered crappy waste of time :) 
 Top 20 of a months ends with ~700 points right now.
 
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/25yw89/dash_an_opensource_gam
_engine_coded_in_d/ 
 - this has gathered 250 being top voted entry about D lately.
 
 I like how 
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/274ugg/introducing_swift/ 
 got 150 votes and 
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/287r4i/smashing_swift/ 
 got 250 :D


Please note that Reddit adds a constant to up and down votes to thwart
vote bots for the purposes of shadow banning them (they don't know if
their vote counted or not), so a popular post might have more fake votes
which inflates its numbers (the score is valid though).

--Ben
Jun 19 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Dicebot" <public dicebot.lv> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 17:26:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest

 https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/867399893273693

 https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/478588866321203200

 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/28am0x/case_studies_in_simplifying_code_with_compiletime/


 Andrei


http://youtu.be/xpImt14KTdc
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Joakim" <dlang joakim.airpost.net> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 17:26:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest

 https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/867399893273693

 https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/478588866321203200

 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/28am0x/case_studies_in_simplifying_code_with_compiletime/


Great talk, missed this on the livestream as I went to sleep.
Between Dmitry's regex talk and this one, good to see talks
demonstrating how they actually used D to build something
interesting and how D-specific features helped them build it
better.  These talks are much better than the more abstract
talks, hopefully we see more of them next year.
Jun 17 2014
prev sibling parent "Tofu Ninja" <emmons0 purdue.edu> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 17:26:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest

 https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/867399893273693

 https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/478588866321203200

 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/28am0x/case_studies_in_simplifying_code_with_compiletime/


 Andrei


This is the most interesting talk I have seen so far from 
DConf14, very good.

-tofu
Jun 17 2014