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digitalmars.D.announce - Amber

reply "Lars Ivar Igesund" <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Dear D community,

I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is a 
programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler 
written using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality 
of code and documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).

Project page: https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber
Background: http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/forums/topic/920

We hold house in #amber on Freenode.


Regards,
Lars Ivar Igesund
larsivi   #amber on Freenode
Dec 21 2012
next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-12-21 19:02, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is a
 programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler written
 using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of code and
 documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).

 Project page: https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber
 Background: http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/forums/topic/920


Interesting, I haven't read all links yet but interesting.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Dec 21 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund:


 Project page: https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber


Seems a good idea to test some alternative designs, alternative 
features and alternative ideas.

What are the differences (present or planned) between D1 and 
Amber?

Bye,
bearophile
Dec 21 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Faux Amis <faux amis.com> writes:
On 21/12/2012 19:02, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is a
 programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler written
 using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of code and
 documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).


  I would love to read a bit about the differences between D1 and Amber.
Dec 22 2012
parent reply "Kelly" <wilsonk cpsc.ucalgary.ca> writes:
On Saturday, 22 December 2012 at 21:02:21 UTC, Faux Amis wrote:

 On 21/12/2012 19:02, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is 
 a
 programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler 
 written
 using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of 
 code and
 documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).


  I would love to read a bit about the differences between D1 
 and Amber.



Might be incomplete, but here is the start of a list:

https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber/wiki/Diff_D1
Dec 23 2012
next sibling parent reply "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Kelly:


 Might be incomplete, but here is the start of a list:
 https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber/wiki/Diff_D1



Thank you for the link, it's an interesting list of differences. 
Some comments:


 No comma expression


We have had some discussions to disallow the comma operator in D2 
too.



 No foreach_reverse.


I love foreach_reverse. It makes my code simpler and more 
readable, and avoids me some bugs.



 Omitting override is an error.


This will happen in D2 too.



 Array literals don't necessarily allocate, so auto a = [1, 2]; 
 a[0] = 2; may segfault.


Do you mean cause stack overflow? Both Go and Rust languages 
avoid this in most cases using segmented stacks.



 No C-style arrays


I'd like them to go in a state of perpetual deprecation, because 
they are handy when I port C code to D, but at the end, in later 
stages of the porting, I prefer to use only one style of array 
declarations in my code.

At least in D2 I'd like D to disallow mixing C style arrays with 
D style ones:
int[] c[5];
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5807

Bye,
bearophile
Dec 23 2012
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-12-24 03:52, bearophile wrote:


 I'd like them to go in a state of perpetual deprecation, because they
 are handy when I port C code to D, but at the end, in later stages of
 the porting, I prefer to use only one style of array declarations in my
 code.

 At least in D2 I'd like D to disallow mixing C style arrays with D style
 ones:
 int[] c[5];
 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5807


No need, DStep will handle it automatically:

https://github.com/jacob-carlborg/dstep

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Dec 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-12-24 01:34, Kelly wrote:


 Might be incomplete, but here is the start of a list:

 https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber/wiki/Diff_D1


"No inner classes (but static nested classes are allowed)."

If you want to be able to use DWT it might be a good idea to support 
inner classes. If I recall correctly they are used in DWT.

It would be nice to see some description/examples of some of the features:

* Struct-interfaces
* Annotations
* Modern varargs

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Dec 24 2012
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/24/2012 2:52 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 If you want to be able to use DWT it might be a good idea to support inner
 classes. If I recall correctly they are used in DWT.


I don't particularly like inner classes (I find them confusing), but they were 
added specifically to support DWT and make conversions from existing Java code 
easier.
Dec 24 2012
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-12-25 04:06, Walter Bright wrote:


 I don't particularly like inner classes (I find them confusing), but
 they were added specifically to support DWT and make conversions from
 existing Java code easier.


I'm grateful for that, thank you.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Dec 25 2012
prev sibling parent reply "renoX" <renozyx gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 24 December 2012 at 00:34:29 UTC, Kelly wrote:

 On Saturday, 22 December 2012 at 21:02:21 UTC, Faux Amis wrote:

 On 21/12/2012 19:02, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It 
 is a
 programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler 
 written
 using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of 
 code and
 documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).


 I would love to read a bit about the differences between D1 
 and Amber.



 Might be incomplete, but here is the start of a list:

 https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber/wiki/Diff_D1


I do not want to sound dismissive, but IMHO the list of 
differences is a bit "small" to start a new language..

Those 3 differences are interesting though:
-Annotations.
-Modern varargs; typesafe, indexable, slicable and possible to 
pass on or unpack
-Easy to specify allocators during allocation

Though I didn't manage to find details about how they work on the 
wiki.

renoX
Dec 27 2012
parent Leandro Lucarella <luca llucax.com.ar> writes:
renoX, el 27 de December a las 10:16 me escribiste:

 On Monday, 24 December 2012 at 00:34:29 UTC, Kelly wrote:

On Saturday, 22 December 2012 at 21:02:21 UTC, Faux Amis wrote:

On 21/12/2012 19:02, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

Dear D community,

I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is
a
programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler
written
using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of
code and
documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).


I would love to read a bit about the differences between D1 and
Amber.



Might be incomplete, but here is the start of a list:

https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber/wiki/Diff_D1


 
 I do not want to sound dismissive, but IMHO the list of differences
 is a bit "small" to start a new language..


The real difference is against D2, since D1 is considered a dead language
officially now. I think Amber tries to be another evolution of D1, a little
less radical than D2.

Maybe you could see D1 as C and D2/Amber as C++/Objective C (I don't want to
suggest any specific mapping between them :P).

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (AKA luca)                     http://llucax.com.ar/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spooker3 always wanted to learn russian...but learned C++ instead :)
Dec 27 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-12-21 19:02, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is a
 programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler written
 using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of code and
 documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).

 Project page: https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber
 Background: http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/forums/topic/920


For some reason it seems one of my post didn't show up.

Is Amber backwards compatible with D1? Will all valid D1 code be valid 
Amber code, except for some new keywords?

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Dec 24 2012
parent reply "Kelly" <wilsonk cpsc.ucalgary.ca> writes:
On Monday, 24 December 2012 at 10:46:24 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2012-12-21 19:02, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is 
 a
 programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler 
 written
 using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of 
 code and
 documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).

 Project page: https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber
 Background: 
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/forums/topic/920


 For some reason it seems one of my post didn't show up.

 Is Amber backwards compatible with D1? Will all valid D1 code 
 be valid Amber code, except for some new keywords?



No, Amber is not backwards compatible with D1. That is not it's 
purpose. It is probably close enough to 'fairly easily' convert 
D1 code (ie. converting Tango hasn't been a huge ordeal).
Dec 24 2012
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-12-25 05:22, Kelly wrote:


 No, Amber is not backwards compatible with D1. That is not it's purpose.
 It is probably close enough to 'fairly easily' convert D1 code (ie.
 converting Tango hasn't been a huge ordeal).


I thought so, it looks pretty compatible.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Dec 25 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-12-21 19:02, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is a
 programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler written
 using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of code and
 documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).


A bit late but:

It looks basically just like D1 with some additional features and some 
cleanup of the language. Which is kind of nice. There are several new 
features in D2 I really like and some that I don't like that much.

The "guard" statement looks nice but is there any real difference 
compared to "scope" together with "Object.dispose"?

I would really like to see some more information about the new features, 
like annotations.

I think it's good to see that some of the developers from the old Tango 
days are still involved with D (kind of). At the same time I think it's 
sad to see that the community is still divided. Now D2 in one corner and 
D1/Amber in the other. I understand why you're doing this. I'm feeling 
the same way, quite often, about how D and the community is run

Personally I've moved almost all of my projects to D2. I'm still using 
Tango, kudos to SiegeLord. These days I'm trying to be less political 
and more practical. I'm using what works and what I think works best. If 
I need XML I'm using Tango, if I need regular expression I'm using Phobos.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Dec 29 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "nazriel" <spam dzfl.pl> writes:
On Friday, 21 December 2012 at 18:02:30 UTC, Lars Ivar Igesund 
wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is 
 a programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler 
 written using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The 
 quality of code and documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).

 Project page: https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber
 Background: 
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/forums/topic/920

 We hold house in #amber on Freenode.


 Regards,
 Lars Ivar Igesund
 larsivi   #amber on Freenode


It is really great to see Amber rolling!

I think D2 could take some inspiration from Amber as Amber takes 
from D2.

For example I like idea of allowing modules and packages with 
same names.
As alternative to DIP16.

I wonder what issues would be with D2 if we would allow 
constructions like:

std/net/http.d :
module std.net.http;
class HttpClient {}

std/net/ftp.d :
module std.net.ftp;
class FtpClient {}

std/net.d
public import std.net.http;
public import std.net.ftp;

main.d
import std.net;

auto http = new HttpClient();

etc

Or more up-to-now problem.

std/datetime/time.d
std/datetime/date.d

std/datetime.d:
module std.datetime;

public import std.datetime.time;
public import std.datetime.date;

Looks smooth for me tbh.
Jan 05 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/21/12 1:02 PM, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is a
 programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler written
 using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of code and
 documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).

 Project page: https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber
 Background: http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/forums/topic/920

 We hold house in #amber on Freenode.


 Regards,
 Lars Ivar Igesund
 larsivi   #amber on Freenode


This is a very interesting development. We will be happy to review 
session proposals for the Amber programming language at DConf.

Good luck!

Andrei
Jan 07 2013
prev sibling parent reply "Suliman" <bubnenkoff gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 21 December 2012 at 18:02:30 UTC, Lars Ivar Igesund 
wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is 
 a programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler 
 written using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The 
 quality of code and documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).

 Project page: https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber


Does project still alive? There is no any updates for several 
month...
Apr 19 2013
parent reply qznc <qznc web.de> writes:
Fri, 19 Apr 2013 10:35:51 +0200: Suliman wrote


 On Friday, 21 December 2012 at 18:02:30 UTC, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is a
 programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler written
 using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of code and
 documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).

 Project page: https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber


 
 Does project still alive? There is no any updates for several month...


The name is somewhat unfortunate, as there is also a Smalltalk:
http://amber-lang.net/
Apr 19 2013
parent Leandro Lucarella <luca llucax.com.ar> writes:
qznc, el 19 de April a las 17:55 me escribiste:

 Fri, 19 Apr 2013 10:35:51 +0200: Suliman wrote
 

 On Friday, 21 December 2012 at 18:02:30 UTC, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community,

 I've been urged by many others to post about Amber here. It is a
 programming language being derived from D1, with a compiler written
 using D1 and Tango, with LLVM and C backends. The quality of code and
 documention is alpha (or pre-alpha).

 Project page: https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber


 
 Does project still alive? There is no any updates for several month...


 
 The name is somewhat unfortunate, as there is also a Smalltalk:
 http://amber-lang.net/


There's even more than one:
https://bitbucket.org/larsivi/amber/wiki/Home#markdown-header-non-affiliation

The problem is the D-ish amber stayed in the shadow for several years,
they didn't come up with the name just when it was made public.

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (AKA luca)                     http://llucax.com.ar/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vaporeso sostenía a rajacincha la teoría del No-Water, la cual le
pertenecía y versaba lo siguiente: "Para darle la otra mejilla al fuego,
éste debe ser apagado con alpargatas apenas húmedas".
Apr 19 2013