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digitalmars.D - Why =?UTF-8?B?aXNu4oCZdA==?= 2.110 published?

reply Quirin Schroll <qs.il.paperinik gmail.com> writes:
Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
published yet?
Aug 19
next sibling parent reply Dakota <dakota gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


I am quite surprised that such a simple and important question 
has gone without any response for such a long time


I can't help but wonder what the future of the community will 
look like.
Aug 29
parent reply Sergey <kornburn yandex.ru> writes:
On Friday, 30 August 2024 at 06:36:23 UTC, Dakota wrote:

 On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


 I am quite surprised that such a simple and important question 
 has gone without any response for such a long time


 I can't help but wonder what the future of the community will 
 look like.


I already told that before..
all problems are because unrealistic expectations: people still 
considering D as a serious production language - they just need 
to stop doing it...
It is great hobby language for hobby projects.

I'm almost sure many people after reading this will have
- denial
- anger
- bargaining
- depression

When you accept this - peace and happiness will be with you :)
You no longer care about not only 2.110 but any other versions, 
bugzilla migrations and all things that are not happening. All 
bugs that haven't been fixed for years (and won't be fixed in 
another decade).. and just enjoy using the language in any way 
you like.

So stop feeling frustrated and start enjoying life!
Aug 29
parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 30 August 2024 at 06:46:54 UTC, Sergey wrote:

 On Friday, 30 August 2024 at 06:36:23 UTC, Dakota wrote:

 On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll 
 wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


 I am quite surprised that such a simple and important question 
 has gone without any response for such a long time


 I can't help but wonder what the future of the community will 
 look like.


 I already told that before..
 all problems are because unrealistic expectations: people still 
 considering D as a serious production language - they just need 
 to stop doing it...
 It is great hobby language for hobby projects.


Relax people. Iain Buclaw handles the releases. Anytime there's a 
delay, there's a reason for it.
Aug 30
next sibling parent ryuukk_ <ryuukk.dev gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 30 August 2024 at 07:04:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 On Friday, 30 August 2024 at 06:46:54 UTC, Sergey wrote:

 On Friday, 30 August 2024 at 06:36:23 UTC, Dakota wrote:

 On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll 
 wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


 I am quite surprised that such a simple and important 
 question has gone without any response for such a long time


 I can't help but wonder what the future of the community will 
 look like.


 I already told that before..
 all problems are because unrealistic expectations: people 
 still considering D as a serious production language - they 
 just need to stop doing it...
 It is great hobby language for hobby projects.


 Relax people. Iain Buclaw handles the releases. Anytime there's 
 a delay, there's a reason for it.


Communication is key to avoid confusion and concerns, there is 
literally 0 communication, therefore there will be confusion and 
concerns
Aug 30
prev sibling parent reply Adam Wilson <flyboynw gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 30 August 2024 at 07:04:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 Relax people. Iain Buclaw handles the releases. Anytime there's 
 a delay, there's a reason for it.


I don't think people have a problem with the concept of their 
being a reason for it. I think the problem is that there has been 
no communication, at least that I've seen on what that reason is.

It could be as simple as "Iain had to step away for a while, but 
he'll be back in X time."
Or maybe it's being held back for a gnarly problem in the build 
pipeline that needs time to get resolved.
Or maybe there is a super-secret feature being developed that 
we're waiting on.

IDK. 🤷‍♂️

The point being, we don't know why, and I think that would cool 
all of this down if we did. But the radio silence is 
disconcerting. And there is quite the pile of fixes and changes 
building up in the pending changelog.
Oct 23
parent reply M.M. <matus email.cz> writes:
On Thursday, 24 October 2024 at 06:24:56 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote:

 On Friday, 30 August 2024 at 07:04:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 Relax people. Iain Buclaw handles the releases. Anytime 
 there's a delay, there's a reason for it.


 I don't think people have a problem with the concept of their 
 being a reason for it. I think the problem is that there has 
 been no communication, at least that I've seen on what that 
 reason is.

 It could be as simple as "Iain had to step away for a while, 
 but he'll be back in X time."
 Or maybe it's being held back for a gnarly problem in the build 
 pipeline that needs time to get resolved.
 Or maybe there is a super-secret feature being developed that 
 we're waiting on.

 IDK. 🤷‍♂️

 The point being, we don't know why, and I think that would cool 
 all of this down if we did. But the radio silence is 
 disconcerting. And there is quite the pile of fixes and changes 
 building up in the pending changelog.


Iain's activity on github has lowered substantially (is close to 
zero) since around july:

https://github.com/ibuclaw

(That would suggest that Iain is taking a break for a while; hope 
all is good, and the break was planned.)
Oct 25
parent reply Lance Bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Friday, 25 October 2024 at 07:57:28 UTC, M.M. wrote:


 Iain's activity on github has lowered substantially (is close 
 to zero) since around july:

 https://github.com/ibuclaw

 (That would suggest that Iain is taking a break for a while; 
 hope all is good, and the break was planned.)


But this isn't Iain's release, it's the project's release. It's 
very alarming that we're in a situation where everything relies 
on one person and nobody else knows what's going on. We don't 
want to blow this out of proportion, but this is what it looks 
like when an open source project dies. I'm not worried about that 
(yet) because LDC seems to be in good shape. At the same time, 
I'm evaluating my options in the event that we've reached the 
downward spiral.
Oct 25
parent reply "Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole" <richard cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 26/10/2024 12:18 AM, Lance Bachmeier wrote:

 On Friday, 25 October 2024 at 07:57:28 UTC, M.M. wrote:
 

 Iain's activity on github has lowered substantially (is close to zero) 
 since around july:

 https://github.com/ibuclaw

 (That would suggest that Iain is taking a break for a while; hope all 
 is good, and the break was planned.)


 
 But this isn't Iain's release, it's the project's release. It's very 
 alarming that we're in a situation where everything relies on one person 
 and nobody else knows what's going on. We don't want to blow this out of 
 proportion, but this is what it looks like when an open source project 
 dies. I'm not worried about that (yet) because LDC seems to be in good 
 shape. At the same time, I'm evaluating my options in the event that 
 we've reached the downward spiral.


You are over thinking this.

It is delayed, Iain is busy.

He had back to back conferences last month.

If something were to happen to Iain, somebody else would take on the job 
of release manager.

Ldc's releases are automated, dmd's isn't currently. We'd get it sorted 
out no matter what happens.
Oct 25
next sibling parent Sergey <kornburn yandex.ru> writes:
On Friday, 25 October 2024 at 11:44:42 UTC, Richard (Rikki) 
Andrew Cattermole wrote:

 It is delayed, Iain is busy.


At least the compiler is stable and no breaking changes :)
Oct 25
prev sibling parent reply Lance Bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Friday, 25 October 2024 at 11:44:42 UTC, Richard (Rikki) 
Andrew Cattermole wrote:


 It is delayed, Iain is busy.


That's not the problem. A delay of three months (or however long 
it turns out to be) with no communication is not something you 
see when an open source project is healthy. It's a sign that all 
the contributors are focused on doing their own thing. Which of 
course they have a right to do, but then new users/adoption dries 
up. This combined with the death of GtkD and Visual D, and what 
appears to be a lack of new users, particularly business users, 
does not make a compelling case when comparing with other 
languages.
Oct 25
parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 25 October 2024 at 12:48:02 UTC, Lance Bachmeier wrote:

 That's not the problem. A delay of three months (or however 
 long it turns out to be) with no communication is not something 
 you see when an open source project is healthy. It's a sign 
 that all the contributors are focused on doing their own thing. 
 Which of course they have a right to do, but then new 
 users/adoption dries up. This combined with the death of GtkD 
 and Visual D, and what appears to be a lack of new users, 
 particularly business users, does not make a compelling case 
 when comparing with other languages.


One of Iain's goals is to get the release progress packaged up 
into basically a single button push so that anyone can do it. 
Once he gets to that point, we'll be able to avoid situations 
like this. But we aren't there yet. Until we are, it's pretty 
much on his shoulders.
Oct 25
next sibling parent jmh530 <john.michael.hall gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 25 October 2024 at 12:59:44 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 On Friday, 25 October 2024 at 12:48:02 UTC, Lance Bachmeier 
 wrote:

 That's not the problem. A delay of three months (or however 
 long it turns out to be) with no communication is not 
 something you see when an open source project is healthy. It's 
 a sign that all the contributors are focused on doing their 
 own thing. Which of course they have a right to do, but then 
 new users/adoption dries up. This combined with the death of 
 GtkD and Visual D, and what appears to be a lack of new users, 
 particularly business users, does not make a compelling case 
 when comparing with other languages.


 One of Iain's goals is to get the release progress packaged up 
 into basically a single button push so that anyone can do it. 
 Once he gets to that point, we'll be able to avoid situations 
 like this. But we aren't there yet. Until we are, it's pretty 
 much on his shoulders.


I think that's a great goal, but I think Bachmeier's point is 
more about the lack of communication to the community. I don't 
think anyone is going to beat up on Iain for being busy and 
needing to delay the release a few weeks, but a heads up that the 
release is delayed makes the organization look a little more 
professional.
Oct 25
prev sibling parent reply Don Allen <donaldcallen gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 25 October 2024 at 12:59:44 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 On Friday, 25 October 2024 at 12:48:02 UTC, Lance Bachmeier 
 wrote:

 That's not the problem. A delay of three months (or however 
 long it turns out to be) with no communication is not 
 something you see when an open source project is healthy. It's 
 a sign that all the contributors are focused on doing their 
 own thing. Which of course they have a right to do, but then 
 new users/adoption dries up. This combined with the death of 
 GtkD and Visual D, and what appears to be a lack of new users, 
 particularly business users, does not make a compelling case 
 when comparing with other languages.


 One of Iain's goals is to get the release progress packaged up 
 into basically a single button push so that anyone can do it. 
 Once he gets to that point, we'll be able to avoid situations 
 like this. But we aren't there yet. Until we are, it's pretty 
 much on his shoulders.


It is amazing to me when I read, repeatedly

Q: Why has there been no communication about the delay of the 
2.110 release?
A: Iain is busy. That's why 2.110 hasn't been released.

It is not helpful to this project when people ask a question and 
receive an answer to a question they didn't ask.
Nov 04
parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 4 November 2024 at 17:14:53 UTC, Don Allen wrote:


 It is not helpful to this project when people ask a question 
 and receive an answer to a question they didn't ask.


I have nothing else to tell you at the moment. I don't know why 
it has't been released yet, and I can't give you a date for when 
it will be. As soon as I know anything, I'll tell announce it.
Nov 04
prev sibling next sibling parent reply ryuukk_ <ryuukk.dev gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


what's sad is people from D foundation all ignored this post


they literally don't care about people using D

it shows in the PRs that get merged, and it shows in releases 
being ignored
Aug 30
parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 30 August 2024 at 07:03:11 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote:


 they literally don't care about people using D



Nothing could be further from the truth. We wouldn't be here 
otherwise.
Aug 30
prev sibling next sibling parent Dakota <dakota gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


Almost 3 months delay, any comment from core team?
Oct 23
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Ivan Kazmenko <gassa mail.ru> writes:
On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


I'd like to just reiterate the original question, in this form.
When could one expect a 2.110 release?

Ivan Kazmenko.
Nov 03
parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 3 November 2024 at 22:47:41 UTC, Ivan Kazmenko wrote:

 On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


 I'd like to just reiterate the original question, in this form.
 When could one expect a 2.110 release?


At the moment, we're trying to find out what's going on with Iain.
Nov 03
parent reply Ivan Kazmenko <gassa mail.ru> writes:
On Monday, 4 November 2024 at 01:36:48 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 On Sunday, 3 November 2024 at 22:47:41 UTC, Ivan Kazmenko wrote:

 On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll 
 wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


 I'd like to just reiterate the original question, in this form.
 When could one expect a 2.110 release?


 At the moment, we're trying to find out what's going on with 
 Iain.


My best wishes to Iain Buclaw and other maintainers!
I hope Iain would be able to return to packaging the releases at 
some point.
And Mike, please keep us posted when you have an update.

Ivan Kazmenko.
Nov 04
parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 4 November 2024 at 17:59:43 UTC, Ivan Kazmenko wrote:


 My best wishes to Iain Buclaw and other maintainers!
 I hope Iain would be able to return to packaging the releases 
 at some point.
 And Mike, please keep us posted when you have an update.


Thank you. Yes, I'll announce something as soon as I know it.
Nov 04
prev sibling parent reply Lance Bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


We're nearing four months since missing the deadline for a 
release, and there's still no announcement from the leadership, 
and there's apparently nobody available/interested enough to 
finish it up.

After more than a decade and hundreds of thousands of lines of 
code, I've started moving some of my projects to a new language. 
This only happens to projects that are close to death.
Nov 16
next sibling parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 16 November 2024 at 22:39:34 UTC, Lance Bachmeier 
wrote:

 On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


 We're nearing four months since missing the deadline for a 
 release, and there's still no announcement from the leadership, 
 and there's apparently nobody available/interested enough to 
 finish it up.

 After more than a decade and hundreds of thousands of lines of 
 code, I've started moving some of my projects to a new 
 language. This only happens to projects that are close to death.


The project is nowhere near death. The compiler release is 
delayed, but everything else is moving along.

I have nothing to announce yet because I haven't been able to 
confirm what's going on with Iain. I'm expecting to have that 
confirmation soon, at which point I'll be able to make an 
announcement about when he'll be able to get the next release out 
or someone else will.
Nov 16
prev sibling next sibling parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 16 November 2024 at 22:39:34 UTC, Lance Bachmeier 
wrote:


 and there's apparently nobody available/interested enough to 
 finish it up.


The release process is a multistep thing that, in its current 
state, is dependent on Iain. As I said earlier, he intends to 
simplify it so any of us could do it, but hasn’t gotten there yet.

If he were abducted by aliens, one of us would step in and 
replace it with a new process. We aren’t at the point yet for 
such an extreme measure.

Right now, our biggest priority here is making sure Iain is okay. 
Then we can figure out what to do about the releaae.
Nov 16
prev sibling next sibling parent Salih Dincer <salihdb hotmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 16 November 2024 at 22:39:34 UTC, Lance Bachmeier 
wrote:

 On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


 We're nearing four months since missing the deadline for a 
 release, and there's still no announcement from the leadership, 
 and there's apparently nobody available/interested enough to 
 finish it up.

 After more than a decade and hundreds of thousands of lines of 
 code, I've started moving some of my projects to a new 
 language. This only happens to projects that are close to death.


I wonder what is so important about the deadly? Or are you 
writing software that coordinates the take-off and landing of 
aircraft? Is there a fatal bug report you've made in the past 
that hasn't been fixed yet? A

As a D programmer, you have such power (ImportC) at your disposal 
that there is nothing you can't do despite the limitations of the 
language. In summary, even if there is no update for 1 year, it 
is not the end of life...

IMO, they are now spending the time they would have spent on 
monthly updates to release a better version. In summary, the 
expectation is great and I hope that will happen before the end 
of the year.

SDB 79
Nov 16
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Adam Wilson <flyboynw gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 16 November 2024 at 22:39:34 UTC, Lance Bachmeier 
wrote:

 We're nearing four months since missing the deadline for a 
 release, and there's still no announcement from the leadership, 
 and there's apparently nobody available/interested enough to 
 finish it up.

 After more than a decade and hundreds of thousands of lines of 
 code, I've started moving some of my projects to a new 
 language. This only happens to projects that are close to death.


That is a bit extreme IMO. While I agree that it is annoying that 
the compiler is delayed it is by no means catastrophic. Just 
download a nightly if you really need a patched version. 
Otherwise, nothing has really changed on your end and nobody is 
going anywhere. Things like this happen all the time in volunteer 
only projects.
Nov 17
parent reply Lance Bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Sunday, 17 November 2024 at 09:47:23 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote:


 That is a bit extreme IMO.


It would be for personal projects where it's just me and nobody 
else. I can't tell others to invest a bunch of (very scarce) time 
in a language unless they'll be able to use it in the future. 
Moreover, we sometimes have to return to the code in five years, 
and the profession is moving to a requirement to share our code 
publicly, so the time horizon is very long.

I'm not going to start yet another discussion of all of the 
related concerns. It's just not an option to use a language 
professionally when it's reached the point that the lack of 
manpower allows something like this to happen.


 Things like this happen all the time in volunteer only projects.


That's what has me worried. The volunteer hours dry up, releases 
slip, and then a year or two later the project is on life support.
Nov 17
next sibling parent "Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole" <richard cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 18/11/2024 8:57 AM, Lance Bachmeier wrote:

 I'm not going to start yet another discussion of all of the related 
 concerns. It's just not an option to use a language professionally when 
 it's reached the point that the lack of manpower allows something like 
 this to happen.
 
     Things like this happen all the time in volunteer only projects.
 
 That's what has me worried. The volunteer hours dry up, releases slip, 
 and then a year or two later the project is on life support.


The problem is not a lack of man power.

It was a lack of communication.

This is why Razvan is moving into the project coordinator role, to 
prevent this from happening again.
Nov 17
prev sibling parent reply Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 17 November 2024 at 19:57:34 UTC, Lance Bachmeier 
wrote:

 On Sunday, 17 November 2024 at 09:47:23 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote:


 That is a bit extreme IMO.


 It would be for personal projects where it's just me and nobody 
 else. I can't tell others to invest a bunch of (very scarce) 
 time in a language unless they'll be able to use it in the 
 future. Moreover, we sometimes have to return to the code in 
 five years, and the profession is moving to a requirement to 
 share our code publicly, so the time horizon is very long.


I think it's disingenuous to treat a lack of release as a lack of 
progress. As it so happens in this case, it's the fact we rely 
currently on one person to do the release, and it's a very 
non-automated process. That is going to be remedied.


 Things like this happen all the time in volunteer only 
 projects.


 That's what has me worried. The volunteer hours dry up, 
 releases slip, and then a year or two later the project is on 
 life support.


It's very obviously not on life support, just look at the commit 
activity here: https://github.com/dlang

While you are free to draw your own conclusions however you want, 
I think either you are not looking at the right metrics, or you 
have some other reason to be leaving D.

-Steve
Nov 17
parent reply Lance Bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Sunday, 17 November 2024 at 22:24:03 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer 
wrote:


 I think it's disingenuous to treat a lack of release as a lack 
 of progress. As it so happens in this case, it's the fact we 
 rely currently on one person to do the release, and it's a very 
 non-automated process. That is going to be remedied.


That's not what I'm doing. The exact phrase was "it's reached the 
point that the lack of manpower allows something like this to 
happen". We recently had discussions about Visual D and GtkD 
being dead. These are major projects and nobody's picked them up. 
Contributors have left and nobody's taken their place. Adam left 
to work on his fork. The list of problems could go on but I don't 
have time for that discussion. And now a release is nearly four 
months late.


 I think either you are not looking at the right metrics,


I can't imagine anyone comparing the current situation to where 
things were six or eight years ago and not be deeply concerned.


 or you have some other reason to be leaving D.


I'm not leaving D. I've moved projects to other languages if 
others are involved. I cannot look at the current state of 
affairs and tell someone else they should use D.
Nov 18
parent reply Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 18 November 2024 at 18:13:16 UTC, Lance Bachmeier 
wrote:

 On Sunday, 17 November 2024 at 22:24:03 UTC, Steven 
 Schveighoffer wrote:


 I think it's disingenuous to treat a lack of release as a lack 
 of progress. As it so happens in this case, it's the fact we 
 rely currently on one person to do the release, and it's a 
 very non-automated process. That is going to be remedied.


 That's not what I'm doing. The exact phrase was "it's reached 
 the point that the lack of manpower allows something like this 
 to happen". We recently had discussions about Visual D and GtkD 
 being dead.


The reports of VisualD's death have been greatly exaggerated.

https://github.com/dlang/visuald/commits/master/

GtkD, I'm not sure about, I don't use it. Looks like it has 
activity about 5 months ago.


 These are major projects and nobody's picked them up. 
 Contributors have left and nobody's taken their place.


I don't know that "contributors have left" in the case of 
VisualD, but I can say that at least for my projects, none of 
them are "dead", even though in some cases I haven't updated them 
in years.

I've picked up several projects that people have left. raylib-d I 
just yesterday was probably the second binding to update to the 
new 5.5 release. mysql-native I also manage, but it has been 
languishing for a while with not much time for me to work on it. 
But it's pretty solid, I use it for one of may work projects.

A project being abandoned doesn't mean it's dead forever. Open 
source gives anyone the opportunity to pick it back up. And 
sometimes, things don't get updated because they *just work*.


 Adam left to work on his fork. The list of problems could go on 
 but I don't have time for that discussion. And now a release is 
 nearly four months late.


Adam is still working on his projects, which are still written in 
D. Maybe at some point it will purposely break with upstream? I 
don't know. I tend to doubt it, but I could be wrong.

The release delay is not based on any kind of abandonment. I 
think there has been too much read into this, it's not a usual 
situation.


 I think either you are not looking at the right metrics,


 I can't imagine anyone comparing the current situation to where 
 things were six or eight years ago and not be deeply concerned.


I am not deeply concerned. I'm actually pretty positive on the 
outlook.

D is somewhat special in that a very few amount of people can 
manage huge projects. It's also a curse that the ecosystem can 
change rapidly based on the whims of a few.

The compiler is going strong. The ecosystem is continually 
improving. ImportC will open up new doors that make things even 
easier. PhobosV3 looks like a good opportunity to clean up the 
library. I hope editions can be finalized soon, but when that 
happens, it will make things drastically easier to change.

D is one of 9 supported languages in gcc. LDC gives world class 
optimization support for bleeding-edge D code, as it is released 
soon after the DMD release.

12 years ago I had to create an embedded server on a small ARM 
board. I chose C++ over D, because D just didn't have the 
capabilities.

Today, I would pick D without question. I know there are others 
who also are exploring this area.

I've been helping to develop a new GC for D, and in this, my 
usual mode of debugging using writeln statements just wouldn't 
cut it. I've been extremely impressed by the support of D in gdb.


 or you have some other reason to be leaving D.


 I'm not leaving D. I've moved projects to other languages if 
 others are involved.


Apologies for misreading here!


 I cannot look at the current state of affairs and tell someone 
 else they should use D.


I am the opposite. I have taught a class of brand-new programmers 
to use D. I think there is potential for D with the right 
motivated people to be the go-to solution for an entire segment 
of programming. It just hasn't happened yet.

People join the Discord all the time, and say "how come I haven't 
heard of D before, it's amazing!"

I truly don't understand the doom-and-gloom sentiment from 
long-time D users, I see nothing but improvement.

Anyway, I get that these kinds of uncertainties can be 
demotivating, but it just bugs me when people post sad 
predictions of failure when everything usually has a reasonable 
explanation.

Don't get me wrong, there are some losses which are tough, I can 
count a few contributors that I am sad they have left, and I know 
they have left permanently. I have faith that the things they are 
no longer doing can be picked up by others.

I want to say something else, something I was just telling a 
group of students recently: when it comes to programming, learn 
whatever you want. If you want to learn D, learn D. If you want 
to learn python, learn python. If you want to learn brainfuck, 
you should think twice, but sure, go ahead! All of these skills 
will just add to your experience and your knowledge. I see a lot 
of fear of learning some language or framework or library because 
it won't further their career. I can't see how that's possible. 
Even if you don't end up using the language/framework/etc, the 
act of learning it opens new ideas and opportunities for growth!

-Steve
Nov 19
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Steven, I and everyone else are very appreciative of your valuable
contributions!
Nov 19
prev sibling parent reply Ivan Kazmenko <gassa mail.ru> writes:
On Tuesday, 19 November 2024 at 17:57:37 UTC, Steven 
Schveighoffer wrote:

 I am not deeply concerned. I'm actually pretty positive on the 
 outlook.

 <snip: a long but much needed log of what works>


Thank you for spelling it out.

Reading the forum posts, it's easy to get a feeling that everyone 
is complaining.
So, it's good to see some people vocal about being happy with the 
language.
Perhaps naturally, when one doesn't have a complaint,
they don't have a good reason to discuss it either.

I'm using D for the past decade, in most of my programming where 
I have a choice.
As a recent example, in a competitive programming contest 
dedicated to a relatively new problem format 
(https://contest.ucup.ac/contest/1465), all the internal stuff 
(solutions, test generators, checking programs, etc) is written 
in D.

It's not perfect, but it's Good Enough, and I'm thankful for this 
tool to everyone involved.

Ivan Kazmenko.
Nov 29
parent jakasspeech50 <j50 sensualspeech.com> writes:
On Saturday, 30 November 2024 at 00:29:09 UTC, Ivan Kazmenko 
wrote:

 On Tuesday, 19 November 2024 at 17:57:37 UTC, Steven 
 Schveighoffer wrote:

 I am not deeply concerned. I'm actually pretty positive on the 
 outlook.

 <snip: a long but much needed log of what works>


 Thank you for spelling it out.

 Reading the forum posts, it's easy to get a feeling that 
 everyone is complaining.
 So, it's good to see some people vocal about being happy with 
 the language.
 Perhaps naturally, when one doesn't have a complaint,
 they don't have a good reason to discuss it either.



Ivan, ten years with D and it’s “Good Enough”? That’s a Bugatti 
calling itself a scooter.
Dec 07
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Sergey <kornburn yandex.ru> writes:
On Saturday, 16 November 2024 at 22:39:34 UTC, Lance Bachmeier 
wrote:

 On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 Wasn’t 2.110 due for August 1? Is there a reason it isn’t it 
 published yet?


 We're nearing four months since missing the deadline for a 
 release, and there's still no announcement from the leadership, 
 and there's apparently nobody available/interested enough to 
 finish it up.

 After more than a decade and hundreds of thousands of lines of 
 code, I've started moving some of my projects to a new 
 language. This only happens to projects that are close to death.


I think Julia just have more active and bigger community and 
ecosystem
And the state of D most probably will stay the same without 
significant changes - which is fine for others
Nov 17
parent Lance Bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Sunday, 17 November 2024 at 10:14:02 UTC, Sergey wrote:


 I think Julia just have more active and bigger community and 
 ecosystem


Julia has the same problem it's always had. Otherwise I'd have 
been using it for a long time. It's too easy to write slow code 
and too complex/distracting to fix it. I've long viewed it as a 
fundamentally flawed language. However, it's what I'm moving to 
for some projects, because it has the community you mention and 
is so easy to get up and running.

Other languages are in principle good alternatives. Swift, 
Kotlin, and Go would require me to create my own ecosystem. I 

doesn't suffer from performance problems, and has a good 
ecosystem in place, but it comes with a heck of a learning curve. 
Rust is so far from a sane choice that it's not worth talking 
about.
Nov 17
prev sibling parent reply claptrap <clap trap.com> writes:
On Saturday, 16 November 2024 at 22:39:34 UTC, Lance Bachmeier 
wrote:

 On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 After more than a decade and hundreds of thousands of lines of 
 code, I've started moving some of my projects to a new 
 language. This only happens to projects that are close to death.


Do you need a hug?
Nov 17
parent drug007 <drug2004 bk.ru> writes:
On 17.11.2024 14:00, claptrap wrote:

 On Saturday, 16 November 2024 at 22:39:34 UTC, Lance Bachmeier wrote:

 On Monday, 19 August 2024 at 12:59:34 UTC, Quirin Schroll wrote:

 After more than a decade and hundreds of thousands of lines of code, 
 I've started moving some of my projects to a new language. This only 
 happens to projects that are close to death.


 
 Do you need a hug?


Brilliant answer! My kudos to you.
Nov 17