www.digitalmars.com         C & C++   DMDScript  

digitalmars.D - What changes to D would you like to pay for?

reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
The D foundation is planning to add a way for us to pay for 
changes we'd like to see in D and its ecosystem, rather than 
having to code everything we need ourselves or find and hire a D 
dev to do it:

"[W]e’re going to add a page to the web site where we can define 
targets, allow donations through Open Collective or PayPal, and 
track donation progress. Each target will allow us to lay out 
exactly what the donations are being used for, so potential 
donors can see in advance where their money is going. We’ll be 
using the State of D Survey as a guide to begin with, but we’ll 
always be open to suggestions, and we’ll adapt to what works over 
what doesn’t as we go along."
https://dlang.org/blog/2018/07/13/funding-code-d/

I'm opening this thread to figure out what the community would 
like to pay for specifically, so we know what to focus on 
initially, whether as part of that funding initiative or 
elsewhere. I am not doing this in any official capacity, just a 
community member who would like to hear what people want.

Please answer these two questions if you're using or would like 
to use D, I have supplied my own answers as an example:

1. What D initiatives would you like to fund and how much money 
would you stake on each? (Nobody is going to hold you to your 
numbers, but please be realistic.)

$50 - Parallelize the compiler, particularly ldc, so that I can 
pass it -j5 and have it use five cores _and_ not have the bloat 
of separate compiler invocation for each module/package, ie 
taking up more memory or time.

$30 - Implement H.S. Teoh's suggestion of having an automated 
build system to periodically check which dub packages are 
building with official compiler releases:

https://forum.dlang.org/post/mailman.3611.1536126324.29801.digitalmars-d puremagic.com

$25 - Enable GC for the DMD frontend, so that dmd/gdc/ldc use 
less memory

I would also stake smaller amounts on various smaller bugs, if 
there were a better interface than bountysource and people were 
actually using it, ie users knew about and were staking money and 
D core devs were fixing those bugs and claiming that money.

2. Would you be okay with the patches you fund not being 
open-sourced for a limited time, with the time limit or funding 
threshold for open source release specified ahead of time, to 
ensure that funding targets are hit?

Yes, as long as everything is open-sourced eventually, I'm good.
Sep 05 2018
next sibling parent rikki cattermole <rikki cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 05/09/2018 7:00 PM, Joakim wrote:

 The D foundation is planning to add a way for us to pay for changes we'd 
 like to see in D and its ecosystem, rather than having to code 
 everything we need ourselves or find and hire a D dev to do it:
 
 "[W]e’re going to add a page to the web site where we can define 
 targets, allow donations through Open Collective or PayPal, and track 
 donation progress. Each target will allow us to lay out exactly what the 
 donations are being used for, so potential donors can see in advance 
 where their money is going. We’ll be using the State of D Survey as a 
 guide to begin with, but we’ll always be open to suggestions, and we’ll 
 adapt to what works over what doesn’t as we go along."
 https://dlang.org/blog/2018/07/13/funding-code-d/
 
 I'm opening this thread to figure out what the community would like to 
 pay for specifically, so we know what to focus on initially, whether as 
 part of that funding initiative or elsewhere. I am not doing this in any 
 official capacity, just a community member who would like to hear what 
 people want.
 
 Please answer these two questions if you're using or would like to use 
 D, I have supplied my own answers as an example:


I have $50USD to spend upon shared library support to be designed (not 
just patching bugs) and implemented.Sadly that is my limit. I wish it 
was more given how much of a blocker it can be (and has shown to be).


 $25 - Enable GC for the DMD frontend, so that dmd/gdc/ldc use less memory


The only thing I believe required for this is [0]. This depends upon a 
decision from Walter and should be pretty straight forward to do. But 
the frontend will not be in any way ready to be used as a library.

During DConf I did attempt to get the frontend ready to be actually 
usable. After my first PR sitting for like 3 months and is now looking 
like its dead, I won't be the one handling that anymore.

[0] https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18811
Sep 05 2018
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Simen =?UTF-8?B?S2rDpnLDpXM=?= <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 5 September 2018 at 07:00:49 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 Please answer these two questions if you're using or would like 
 to use D, I have supplied my own answers as an example:

 1. What D initiatives would you like to fund and how much money 
 would you stake on each? (Nobody is going to hold you to your 
 numbers, but please be realistic.)


I'll throw $200 at issue 5710. It's already got $200 on 
bountysource, and it's the one issue I consistently bump into. 
And yes, you can hold me to this.



 2. Would you be okay with the patches you fund not being 
 open-sourced for a limited time, with the time limit or funding 
 threshold for open source release specified ahead of time, to 
 ensure that funding targets are hit?


Sure, as long as they're eventually open-sourced.

--
   Simen
Sep 05 2018
parent Meta <jared771 gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 5 September 2018 at 07:32:54 UTC, Simen Kjærås 
wrote:

 On Wednesday, 5 September 2018 at 07:00:49 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 Please answer these two questions if you're using or would 
 like to use D, I have supplied my own answers as an example:

 1. What D initiatives would you like to fund and how much 
 money would you stake on each? (Nobody is going to hold you to 
 your numbers, but please be realistic.)


 I'll throw $200 at issue 5710. It's already got $200 on 
 bountysource, and it's the one issue I consistently bump into. 
 And yes, you can hold me to this.



 2. Would you be okay with the patches you fund not being 
 open-sourced for a limited time, with the time limit or 
 funding threshold for open source release specified ahead of 
 time, to ensure that funding targets are hit?


 Sure, as long as they're eventually open-sourced.

 --
   Simen


I'll pledge another $100 USD to that one. Ditto on the open 
source question.
Sep 05 2018
prev sibling next sibling parent Dylan Graham <dylan.graham2000 gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 5 September 2018 at 07:00:49 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 [...]


If I had money I'd pay for DLL support. Maybe I'll need to start 
saving. I think this is a good idea though.
Sep 05 2018
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Laeeth Isharc <laeeth laeeth.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 5 September 2018 at 07:00:49 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 The D foundation is planning to add a way for us to pay for 
 changes we'd like to see in D and its ecosystem, rather than 
 having to code everything we need ourselves or find and hire a 
 D dev to do it:

 "[W]e’re going to add a page to the web site where we can 
 define targets, allow donations through Open Collective or 
 PayPal, and track donation progress. Each target will allow us 
 to lay out exactly what the donations are being used for, so 
 potential donors can see in advance where their money is going. 
 We’ll be using the State of D Survey as a guide to begin with, 
 but we’ll always be open to suggestions, and we’ll adapt to 
 what works over what doesn’t as we go along."
 https://dlang.org/blog/2018/07/13/funding-code-d/

 I'm opening this thread to figure out what the community would 
 like to pay for specifically, so we know what to focus on 
 initially, whether as part of that funding initiative or 
 elsewhere. I am not doing this in any official capacity, just a 
 community member who would like to hear what people want.

 Please answer these two questions if you're using or would like 
 to use D, I have supplied my own answers as an example:

 1. What D initiatives would you like to fund and how much money 
 would you stake on each? (Nobody is going to hold you to your 
 numbers, but please be realistic.)

 $50 - Parallelize the compiler, particularly ldc, so that I can 
 pass it -j5 and have it use five cores _and_ not have the bloat 
 of separate compiler invocation for each module/package, ie 
 taking up more memory or time.

 $30 - Implement H.S. Teoh's suggestion of having an automated 
 build system to periodically check which dub packages are 
 building with official compiler releases:

 https://forum.dlang.org/post/mailman.3611.1536126324.29801.digitalmars-d puremagic.com

 $25 - Enable GC for the DMD frontend, so that dmd/gdc/ldc use 
 less memory

 I would also stake smaller amounts on various smaller bugs, if 
 there were a better interface than bountysource and people were 
 actually using it, ie users knew about and were staking money 
 and D core devs were fixing those bugs and claiming that money.

 2. Would you be okay with the patches you fund not being 
 open-sourced for a limited time, with the time limit or funding 
 threshold for open source release specified ahead of time, to 
 ensure that funding targets are hit?

 Yes, as long as everything is open-sourced eventually, I'm good.



$500.00 to fix these three together - they may well be 
essentially the same bug:

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19179
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5570
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13957

Can delay fix if you wish if it's ultimately open-sourced.
Sep 05 2018
parent reply Mike Franklin <slavo5150 yahoo.com> writes:
On Thursday, 6 September 2018 at 01:24:35 UTC, Laeeth Isharc 
wrote:


 $500.00 to fix these three together - they may well be 
 essentially the same bug:

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19179
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5570
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13957


According to BountySource 
(https://www.bountysource.com/teams/d/issues?tracker_ids=383571) 
Issue 5570 already has a bounty of $445.  With the addition of 
your $500 that would make the bounty $945, which isn't bad.

Mike
Sep 06 2018
next sibling parent Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 at 04:36:20 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote:

 On Thursday, 6 September 2018 at 01:24:35 UTC, Laeeth Isharc 
 wrote:

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19179
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5570
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13957


 According to BountySource 
 (https://www.bountysource.com/teams/d/issues?tracker_ids=383571) Issue 5570
already has a bounty of $445.  With the addition of your $500 that would make
the bounty $945, which isn't bad.


Must be pretty hard to fix though if yebblies couldn't do it.
Sep 07 2018
prev sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?B?c291bGHvv71tYW4=?= <sahmi.soulaimane gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 at 04:36:20 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote:

 On Thursday, 6 September 2018 at 01:24:35 UTC, Laeeth Isharc 
 wrote:


 $500.00 to fix these three together - they may well be 
 essentially the same bug:

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19179
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5570
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13957


 According to BountySource 
 (https://www.bountysource.com/teams/d/issues?tracker_ids=383571) Issue 5570
already has a bounty of $445.  With the addition of your $500 that would make
the bounty $945, which isn't bad.

 Mike


Sounds like a good bounty to me. I was planning to work on the 
non-global template problem but I think I'll start with this one.
Oct 31 2018
parent reply Nicholas Wilson <iamthewilsonator hotmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 1 November 2018 at 01:42:23 UTC, soula�man wrote:

 On Friday, 7 September 2018 at 04:36:20 UTC, Mike Franklin 
 wrote:

 On Thursday, 6 September 2018 at 01:24:35 UTC, Laeeth Isharc 
 wrote:


 $500.00 to fix these three together - they may well be 
 essentially the same bug:

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19179
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5570
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13957


 According to BountySource 
 (https://www.bountysource.com/teams/d/issues?tracker_ids=383571) Issue 5570
already has a bounty of $445.  With the addition of your $500 that would make
the bounty $945, which isn't bad.

 Mike


 Sounds like a good bounty to me. I was planning to work on the 
 non-global template problem but I think I'll start with this 
 one.


Please see https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/8837 which is an 
upstreaming of those issues for LDC.
Oct 31 2018
parent reply =?UTF-8?B?c291bGHvv71tYW4=?= <sahmi.soulaimane gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 1 November 2018 at 01:52:45 UTC, Nicholas Wilson 
wrote:

 Please see https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/8837 which is an 
 upstreaming of those issues for LDC.


Thank you for pointing that out. That is definitely good progress 
It saves some work on the DMD side. It seems to fix the SysV 
64bit ABI related issues for LDC but there is still some work for 
DMD as it was pointed out by Walter in the comments. I think I'll 
start there build on that for the DMD implementation.
Nov 01 2018
parent reply Nicholas Wilson <iamthewilsonator hotmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 1 November 2018 at 09:00:42 UTC, soula�man wrote:

 Thank you for pointing that out. That is definitely good 
 progress It saves some work on the DMD side. It seems to fix 
 the SysV 64bit ABI related issues for LDC but there is still 
 some work for DMD as it was pointed out by Walter in the 
 comments. I think I'll start there build on that for the DMD 
 implementation.


I generally don't do DMD backend stuff so I'm not sure I'll be 
able to help much more, but best of luck.
Nov 01 2018
parent =?UTF-8?B?c291bGHvv71tYW4=?= <sahmi.soulaimane gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 1 November 2018 at 10:42:58 UTC, Nicholas Wilson 
wrote:

 I generally don't do DMD backend stuff so I'm not sure I'll be 
 able to help much more, but best of luck.


Thank you Nicholas.
Nov 01 2018
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Mike Franklin <slavo5150 yahoo.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 5 September 2018 at 07:00:49 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 The D foundation is planning to add a way for us to pay for 
 changes we'd like to see in D and its ecosystem, rather than 
 having to code everything we need ourselves or find and hire a 
 D dev to do it:

 "[W]e’re going to add a page to the web site where we can 
 define targets, allow donations through Open Collective or 
 PayPal, and track donation progress. Each target will allow us 
 to lay out exactly what the donations are being used for, so 
 potential donors can see in advance where their money is going. 
 We’ll be using the State of D Survey as a guide to begin with, 
 but we’ll always be open to suggestions, and we’ll adapt to 
 what works over what doesn’t as we go along."
 https://dlang.org/blog/2018/07/13/funding-code-d/

 I'm opening this thread to figure out what the community would 
 like to pay for specifically, so we know what to focus on 
 initially, whether as part of that funding initiative or 
 elsewhere. I am not doing this in any official capacity, just a 
 community member who would like to hear what people want.

 Please answer these two questions if you're using or would like 
 to use D, I have supplied my own answers as an example:

 1. What D initiatives would you like to fund and how much money 
 would you stake on each? (Nobody is going to hold you to your 
 numbers, but please be realistic.)


I'd be willing to pay at least $100 each for these two:

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19159
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18788

Quite honestly, though, I probably wouldn't do it myself for 
$100.  These bounties really need to be $500 or more.

If D is to be funded by individuals, there needs to be some way 
to organize individuals around common interest and raise funds 
for those tasks.  For example, the D Language Foundation has a 
"Corporate Bronze" offer on its OpenCollective page that includes 
3 priority bug fixes per month for $12,000.  If we could get 24 
like-minded people, willing to contribute $500 each, and vote on 
priority bugs, that could potentially get things moving in the 
right direction.  That would be 1 1/2 bugs per contributor.  I 
don't think that's bad.  I'd be willing to join such a collective 
if I got at least 1 priority bug fix out of it.

Even better, IMO, it'd be nice if the "Individual Sponsor" or 
"Organizational Sponsor" offers on the OpenCollective page 
included at least 1 priority bug fix.

Mike
Sep 06 2018
parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 at 05:31:22 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote:

 On Wednesday, 5 September 2018 at 07:00:49 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 The D foundation is planning to add a way for us to pay for 
 changes we'd like to see in D and its ecosystem, rather than 
 having to code everything we need ourselves or find and hire a 
 D dev to do it:

 "[W]e’re going to add a page to the web site where we can 
 define targets, allow donations through Open Collective or 
 PayPal, and track donation progress. Each target will allow us 
 to lay out exactly what the donations are being used for, so 
 potential donors can see in advance where their money is 
 going. We’ll be using the State of D Survey as a guide to 
 begin with, but we’ll always be open to suggestions, and we’ll 
 adapt to what works over what doesn’t as we go along."
 https://dlang.org/blog/2018/07/13/funding-code-d/

 I'm opening this thread to figure out what the community would 
 like to pay for specifically, so we know what to focus on 
 initially, whether as part of that funding initiative or 
 elsewhere. I am not doing this in any official capacity, just 
 a community member who would like to hear what people want.

 Please answer these two questions if you're using or would 
 like to use D, I have supplied my own answers as an example:

 1. What D initiatives would you like to fund and how much 
 money would you stake on each? (Nobody is going to hold you to 
 your numbers, but please be realistic.)


 I'd be willing to pay at least $100 each for these two:

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19159
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18788

 Quite honestly, though, I probably wouldn't do it myself for 
 $100.  These bounties really need to be $500 or more.

 If D is to be funded by individuals, there needs to be some way 
 to organize individuals around common interest and raise funds 
 for those tasks.


Yes, that's the point of the funding targets mentioned in the 
quoted blog post and this thread, to see who's interested in 
collectively pooling towards certain common goals. Obviously no 
one's person contribution would be enough to get any non-trivial 
goal funded.

Given the anemic response to this thread and the Opencollective 
so far, I suspect we wouldn't raise much though. OTOH, maybe the 
people who would pay don't read the forum.


 For example, the D Language Foundation has a "Corporate Bronze" 
 offer on its OpenCollective page that includes 3 priority bug 
 fixes per month for $12,000.  If we could get 24 like-minded 
 people, willing to contribute $500 each, and vote on priority 
 bugs, that could potentially get things moving in the right 
 direction.  That would be 1 1/2 bugs per contributor.  I don't 
 think that's bad.  I'd be willing to join such a collective if 
 I got at least 1 priority bug fix out of it.


Yes, these types of paid bugfix schemes are what I describe above 
too.


 Even better, IMO, it'd be nice if the "Individual Sponsor" or 
 "Organizational Sponsor" offers on the OpenCollective page 
 included at least 1 priority bug fix.


That would make sense for the latter offer.

Btw, if anyone is under any illusion that I'm offering to 
implement any of this for the money, I have zero interest in 
doing this work. I _am_ interested in paying others to do it. I 
may tinker with enabling the GC on the DMD frontend some day, but 
that wouldn't be for any bounties, just OSS.
Sep 06 2018
parent Chris <wendlec tcd.ie> writes:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 at 06:07:11 UTC, Joakim wrote:
[snip]

 Given the anemic response to this thread and the Opencollective 
 so far, I suspect we wouldn't raise much though. OTOH, maybe 
 the people who would pay don't read the forum.


Guess why there is an "anemic response". Of course it's because 
people who would pay don't read the forum, of course...but 
maybe...

[snip]
Sep 07 2018
prev sibling next sibling parent Dejan Lekic <dejan.lekic gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 5 September 2018 at 07:00:49 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 The D foundation is planning to add a way for us to pay for 
 changes we'd like to see in D and its ecosystem, rather than 
 having to code everything we need ourselves or find and hire a 
 D dev to do it:


I would donate again to DFoundation towards the administration 
and proper handling of the development process. Let me clarify - 
I expect D Foundation to oversee the D development process in the 
same fashion the JCP (Java Community Process) works. - That is an 
example of how professionals handle these things.

The D Foundation should, in my humble opinion, start the design 
(and perhaps the development) of commonly used APIs that may or 
may not be part of Phobos (APIs yes, the implementation should be 
separate library).

The following APIs come first to my mind:
- Crypto API
- Networking API (supporting all major protocols, and giving nice 
set of interfaces to implement own - look at protocol handlers in 
Java, or similar)
- Graphics (2D and 3D)
- GUI API (a rock-solid, scene based like JavaFX)
- Database API
- TUI (console UI)
- Security API (Role-base Access, etc)
- VFS API (Look at Apache Commons VFS)

Again Phobos should only contain interfaces - refecence 
implementation should be in the libphobos-<api> (example: 
libphobos-crypto.so)

The design and the development (or coordinating the development) 
of these APIs should be the D Foundation responsibility. Also 
future improvements should be part of the the improvement process 
that is also governed by the D Foundation (look at Python PEPs)...

I talked about this on IRC many times with other D programmers. 
Rich set of APIs is why languages like Java, Python, JavaScript, 
Go, etc gained so much popularity.

The more I see the D Foundation do these things, the more I will 
be willing to donate.
Sep 07 2018
prev sibling parent reply RhyS <sale rhysoft.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 5 September 2018 at 07:00:49 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 The D foundation is planning to add a way for us to pay for 
 changes we'd like to see in D and its ecosystem, rather than 
 having to code everything we need ourselves or find and hire a 
 D dev to do it:

 $50 - Parallelize the compiler, particularly ldc, so that I can 
 pass it -j5 and have it use five cores _and_ not have the bloat 
 of separate compiler invocation for each module/package, ie 
 taking up more memory or time.

 $30 - Implement H.S. Teoh's suggestion of having an automated 
 build system to periodically check which dub packages are 
 building with official compiler releases:

 https://forum.dlang.org/post/mailman.3611.1536126324.29801.digitalmars-d puremagic.com

 $25 - Enable GC for the DMD frontend, so that dmd/gdc/ldc use 
 less memory

 I would also stake smaller amounts on various smaller bugs, if 
 there were a better interface than bountysource and people were 
 actually using it, ie users knew about and were staking money 
 and D core devs were fixing those bugs and claiming that money.

 2. Would you be okay with the patches you fund not being 
 open-sourced for a limited time, with the time limit or funding 
 threshold for open source release specified ahead of time, to 
 ensure that funding targets are hit?

 Yes, as long as everything is open-sourced eventually, I'm good.


The list of issues i have with D will probably bankrupt me.

But i will put my money where my mouth is:

** 750$ **

For a build in working high performance documented http server ( 
with all the basic necessities needed for web development ). Not 
just vibe.d as some module that breaks every time somebody 
sneezes!

It needs to be simple as:

import core.http;
import core.http.mysql;
import core.http.postgresql;
...

And with a time limit of 3 months. Because i know how D works, 
its no use to have bounties when they idle for years. And that is 
also the time limit i have for the start of a new project.

Its the only way to get a reliably http server with database 
access in my opinion. Because any issues are forced to be fixed 
on every DMD release! And its just idiotic that D does not have a 
build in HTTP server. This is a massive selling point for several 
of the competing languages.

And if i like what i see, there can be more on the table as i am 
creating my company next month. Hooray for tax deductibles.

And yes, i know 750$ is **way** too cheap, but that is what i am 
comfortable putting on the table for now with the history of D.

So think of this putting my butt on the line. If D can start to 
show the correct type of progress in the next months ( user 
friendliness, bug fixes, no more specialized enhancements, string 
fixes, API stability work, ...), i am even willing to hire some 
people in N-Spain for D development and they can help also help 
out with D its progress.

I must be a idiot to put my money on D with its issues *sigh*... 
So the next guy that dares to say "put up money or shut up", here 
it is.
Sep 07 2018
next sibling parent reply Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 at 10:51:28 UTC, RhyS wrote:

 ** 750$ **

 For a build in working high performance documented http server 
 ( with all the basic necessities needed for web development ).


cha-ching

https://github.com/adamdruppe/arsd

just copy/paste code out of there, it works and has worked for 
many years.

But I have zero interest in dealing with dangeresque Phobos 
politics. I work alone. Except when I work with Renaldo... which 
is always.

You'll also have to define "high performance" with something 
concrete.
Sep 07 2018
parent reply RhyS <sale rhysoft.com> writes:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 at 11:27:04 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 cha-ching

 https://github.com/adamdruppe/arsd

 just copy/paste code out of there, it works and has worked for 
 many years.


... Sorry Adam but if you consider a collection of lose code 
production ready for D, then we have different ideas. ;)

* Not included into D / External maintained by one dev.
* Not "user friendly" / Documentation is ... be honest Adam ;)


 But I have zero interest in dealing with dangeresque Phobos 
 politics. I work alone. Except when I work with Renaldo... 
 which is always.


I know Phobos politics have "issues" but its up to D to get their 
act together so people like you can contribute.


 You'll also have to define "high performance" with something 
 concrete.


https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=test&runid=bd2d23c9-3d8c-4b6c-b7a2-cb900ed27e95

Its the most neutral and realistic benchmark for Web related 
content. When PHP with its bootstrapping fire and forget approach 
beats D by 50%, you know D has a issue. I am not including 
Swoole/PHP as a example. D needs to be closer to Go by its 
nature, then this low. Its just massive amount of performance 
that is wasted because of issues with the drivers and missing 
optimizations.
Sep 07 2018
parent Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 at 11:48:47 UTC, RhyS wrote:

 ... Sorry Adam but if you consider a collection of lose code 
 production ready for D, then we have different ideas. ;)


All libraries are collections of loose code, except the bad ones, 
which are tightly coupled collections of code that break with 
random dependency updates.

My code hasn't had serious breakage for years. Every so often, a 
new dmd release will through up a deprecation warning, but I fix 
those and keep it working on both old and new. I actively test 
compiling cgi.d, for example, on D 2.069, which is from 2015! It 
works there as well as the newest release this week.

That's the power of loosely coupled, conservatively-coded 
modules: they are hard to break. You pick and choose the parts 
you need, without pulling in a huge, fragile dependency tree.

I (and others) have also used it on real-world applications 
continuously since 2011.


 * Not included into D / External maintained by one dev.


You don't need a huge dev team when you have a stable, 
encapsulated codebase - maintenance is easy since things don't 
randomly break!


 * Not "user friendly" / Documentation is ... be honest Adam ;)


http://arsd-official.dpldocs.info/arsd.cgi.html

I rank it as... OK. But it is also generally simple so there's 
not that much to look at.


 Its the most neutral and realistic benchmark for Web related 
 content. When PHP with its bootstrapping fire and forget 
 approach beats D by 50%, you know D has a issue.


well, plain php is actually hard to beat for simple things. But 
yeah, vibe's performance there is poor. I wonder if I'd beat it, 
despite my policy being compatibility, stability and simplicity 
over performance.
Sep 07 2018
prev sibling parent JN <666total wp.pl> writes:
On Friday, 7 September 2018 at 10:51:28 UTC, RhyS wrote:

 And with a time limit of 3 months. Because i know how D works, 
 its no use to have bounties when they idle for years. And that 
 is also the time limit i have for the start of a new project.


Idling for years isn't without reason. Usually, from what I've 
seen, the reason project gets stalled because it's almost ready 
to be accepted into Phobos. But then, someone shows up saying 
that it doesn't support the FancyXYZRange interface, also it has 
complicated relationship with XYZAllocator and Container API, 
which is almost ready. The author decides to wait until the spec 
for these technologies gets released, but it doesn't really get 
released, and so doesn't the main project.

Check out https://wiki.dlang.org/Review_Queue for some blast from 
the past
Sep 07 2018