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digitalmars.D - Version identifier for PS4

reply Johan Engelen <j j.nl> writes:
Hi all,
   PR 5850 is proposing to add a predefined (reserved) version 
identifier for the PS4 OS: "PS4" [1].
Thanks for your comment (preferably with an alternative 
suggestion in case you don't like "PS4").

Thanks,
   Johan

[1] https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5850
Jun 09 2016
next sibling parent reply rikki cattermole <rikki cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 10/06/2016 12:30 AM, Johan Engelen wrote:

 Hi all,
   PR 5850 is proposing to add a predefined (reserved) version identifier
 for the PS4 OS: "PS4" [1].
 Thanks for your comment (preferably with an alternative suggestion in
 case you don't like "PS4").

 Thanks,
   Johan

 [1] https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5850


"PS4" is really quite short.

"PlayStation4" would be far better that way it isn't an acronym.
Jun 09 2016
next sibling parent reply Johan Engelen <j j.nl> writes:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 at 12:38:51 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote:

 "PS4" is really quite short.

 "PlayStation4" would be far better that way it isn't an acronym.


Nice suggestion.

I don't know about similarities between PlayStation versions, but 
how about "PlayStation", with 'sub' version "PlayStation4"? Using 
the spec's "all identifiers derived from the ones listed above 
[e.g. "PlayStation"] by appending any character(s) are reserved"
(Wikipedia says that both PS3 and PS4 are based on FreeBSD)
Jun 09 2016
parent Markus Pursche <pursche01 gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 at 13:09:01 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote:

 On Thursday, 9 June 2016 at 12:38:51 UTC, rikki cattermole 
 wrote:

 "PS4" is really quite short.

 "PlayStation4" would be far better that way it isn't an 
 acronym.


 Nice suggestion.

 I don't know about similarities between PlayStation versions, 
 but how about "PlayStation", with 'sub' version "PlayStation4"? 
 Using the spec's "all identifiers derived from the ones listed 
 above [e.g. "PlayStation"] by appending any character(s) are 
 reserved"
 (Wikipedia says that both PS3 and PS4 are based on FreeBSD)


Maybe, I doubt a lot of code will be reusable between Playstation 
consoles though judging from the past.
Jun 09 2016
prev sibling parent reply Markus Pursche <pursche01 gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 at 12:38:51 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote:

 On 10/06/2016 12:30 AM, Johan Engelen wrote:

 Hi all,
   PR 5850 is proposing to add a predefined (reserved) version 
 identifier
 for the PS4 OS: "PS4" [1].
 Thanks for your comment (preferably with an alternative 
 suggestion in
 case you don't like "PS4").

 Thanks,
   Johan

 [1] https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5850


 "PS4" is really quite short.

 "PlayStation4" would be far better that way it isn't an acronym.


As the "author"(?) of that pull request I would love to get a 
discussion going.

PS4 vs Orbis vs PlayStation4 so far.

The reason I went for the acronym is that all other tools I could 
find with a reference to PS4 used the acronym, I guess that is a 
bad reason though.

I am open to making another pullrequest with another identifier 
as long as we can get a general consensus about which one to use.
Jun 09 2016
parent reply Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On 6/9/16 9:09 AM, Markus Pursche wrote:

 On Thursday, 9 June 2016 at 12:38:51 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote:

 On 10/06/2016 12:30 AM, Johan Engelen wrote:

 Hi all,
   PR 5850 is proposing to add a predefined (reserved) version identifier
 for the PS4 OS: "PS4" [1].
 Thanks for your comment (preferably with an alternative suggestion in
 case you don't like "PS4").

 Thanks,
   Johan

 [1] https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5850


 "PS4" is really quite short.

 "PlayStation4" would be far better that way it isn't an acronym.


 As the "author"(?) of that pull request I would love to get a discussion
 going.

 PS4 vs Orbis vs PlayStation4 so far.

 The reason I went for the acronym is that all other tools I could find
 with a reference to PS4 used the acronym, I guess that is a bad reason
 though.

 I am open to making another pullrequest with another identifier as long
 as we can get a general consensus about which one to use.


The precedent is to use whatever the OS defines for the host C compiler.

This is the reason we have lower case "linux" for version, which is 
inconsistent with other version identifiers, but consistent with Linux's 
#define in C code.

So if Sony uses PS4 as a define, I think that's logical to use for the 
version statement.

-Steve
Jun 09 2016
next sibling parent Markus Pursche <pursche01 gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 9 June 2016 at 13:16:58 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer 
wrote:

 On 6/9/16 9:09 AM, Markus Pursche wrote:

 On Thursday, 9 June 2016 at 12:38:51 UTC, rikki cattermole 
 wrote:

 [...]


 As the "author"(?) of that pull request I would love to get a 
 discussion
 going.

 PS4 vs Orbis vs PlayStation4 so far.

 The reason I went for the acronym is that all other tools I 
 could find
 with a reference to PS4 used the acronym, I guess that is a 
 bad reason
 though.

 I am open to making another pullrequest with another 
 identifier as long
 as we can get a general consensus about which one to use.


 The precedent is to use whatever the OS defines for the host C 
 compiler.

 This is the reason we have lower case "linux" for version, 
 which is inconsistent with other version identifiers, but 
 consistent with Linux's #define in C code.

 So if Sony uses PS4 as a define, I think that's logical to use 
 for the version statement.

 -Steve


I dont think Sony has any official #defines but all game engines 
I have ever used (proprietary, Unity, Unreal) preferred 
PLATFORM_PS4 over PLATFORM_PLAYSTATION4 or PLATFORM_ORBIS.
Jun 09 2016
prev sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2016-06-09 15:16, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:


 The precedent is to use whatever the OS defines for the host C compiler.

 This is the reason we have lower case "linux" for version, which is
 inconsistent with other version identifiers, but consistent with Linux's
 #define in C code.


That's only true for the "linux" identifier. The other ones are using 
the more "official" name and casing of the operating system. Example: 
the C preprocessor identifier for OS X is __APPLE__, but in D it's "OSX".

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jun 10 2016
parent reply Markus Pursche <Pursche01 gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 10 June 2016 at 08:56:57 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2016-06-09 15:16, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:


 The precedent is to use whatever the OS defines for the host C 
 compiler.

 This is the reason we have lower case "linux" for version, 
 which is
 inconsistent with other version identifiers, but consistent 
 with Linux's
 #define in C code.


 That's only true for the "linux" identifier. The other ones are 
 using the more "official" name and casing of the operating 
 system. Example: the C preprocessor identifier for OS X is 
 __APPLE__, but in D it's "OSX".


If this is the case we would want to use Orbis.
Jun 10 2016
parent reply David Nadlinger <code klickverbot.at> writes:
On Friday, 10 June 2016 at 14:37:23 UTC, Markus Pursche wrote:

 If this is the case we would want to use Orbis.


As Seb also pointed out on GitHub, I've seen LLVM use "PS4" 
internally, and it always seemed rather natural to me. On the 
other hand, with Orbis I would have had no idea what the code was 
about, and it's not like you can really install another operating 
system on a PS4 anyway. (Yes, I'm aware of the Jailbreak/Homebrew 
community, but that's rather besides the point.)

  — David
Jun 11 2016
next sibling parent reply Markus Pursche <pursche01 gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 11 June 2016 at 17:09:59 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote:

 On Friday, 10 June 2016 at 14:37:23 UTC, Markus Pursche wrote:

 If this is the case we would want to use Orbis.


 As Seb also pointed out on GitHub, I've seen LLVM use "PS4" 
 internally, and it always seemed rather natural to me. On the 
 other hand, with Orbis I would have had no idea what the code 
 was about, and it's not like you can really install another 
 operating system on a PS4 anyway. (Yes, I'm aware of the 
 Jailbreak/Homebrew community, but that's rather besides the 
 point.)

  — David


Another argument for PS4 is that if (when) a PS5 is released and 
we get D working on it they would follow a pattern instead of 
calling the PS5 whatever it's OS is nicknamed.

I am still leaning PS4, I guess the ultimate decision comes down 
to whomever can accept/reject the PR.
Jun 11 2016
parent Johan Engelen <j j.nl> writes:
On Saturday, 11 June 2016 at 17:21:18 UTC, Markus Pursche wrote:

 On Saturday, 11 June 2016 at 17:09:59 UTC, David Nadlinger 
 wrote:

 On Friday, 10 June 2016 at 14:37:23 UTC, Markus Pursche wrote:

 If this is the case we would want to use Orbis.


 As Seb also pointed out on GitHub, I've seen LLVM use "PS4" 
 internally, and it always seemed rather natural to me. On the 
 other hand, with Orbis I would have had no idea what the code 
 was about, and it's not like you can really install another 
 operating system on a PS4 anyway. (Yes, I'm aware of the 
 Jailbreak/Homebrew community, but that's rather besides the 
 point.)

  — David


 Another argument for PS4 is that if (when) a PS5 is released 
 and we get D working on it they would follow a pattern instead 
 of calling the PS5 whatever it's OS is nicknamed.


Because of that, I prefer "PlayStation". Any additions to a 
reserved identifier name are also reserved, so it would reserve 
"PlayStation4", "PlayStation5", "PlayStationOver9000"...
And just "PS" would be very tiny.
Jun 11 2016
prev sibling parent Johan Engelen <j j.nl> writes:
On Saturday, 11 June 2016 at 17:09:59 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote:

  with Orbis I would have had no idea what the code was about


+1
Jun 11 2016
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/9/2016 5:30 AM, Johan Engelen wrote:

 Hi all,
   PR 5850 is proposing to add a predefined (reserved) version identifier for
the
 PS4 OS: "PS4" [1].
 Thanks for your comment (preferably with an alternative suggestion in case you
 don't like "PS4").

 Thanks,
   Johan

 [1] https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5850


As others suggested, me kinda prefer "PlayStation4" as there's little doubt
what 
that refers to.
Jun 11 2016
next sibling parent Markus Pursche <Pursche01 gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 12 June 2016 at 06:29:08 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 6/9/2016 5:30 AM, Johan Engelen wrote:

 Hi all,
   PR 5850 is proposing to add a predefined (reserved) version 
 identifier for the
 PS4 OS: "PS4" [1].
 Thanks for your comment (preferably with an alternative 
 suggestion in case you
 don't like "PS4").

 Thanks,
   Johan

 [1] https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5850


 As others suggested, me kinda prefer "PlayStation4" as there's 
 little doubt what that refers to.


As per popular request I have changed the commit to reserve 
"PlayStation" and "PlayStation4".

First of all, if what Johan says is right about "PlayStation" 
reserving all additions to the keyword as well (PlayStation4, 
PlayStation5, PlaystationOver9000) then my reasoning behind 
reserving "PlayStation4" is for claritys sake and for the 
documentation.

If it isn't right, "PlayStation" is a good keyword because there 
might be a possibility to reuse code between the PS4 and a 
theoretical future PS5.
Jun 12 2016
prev sibling parent reply Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Saturday, June 11, 2016 23:29:08 Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote:

 On 6/9/2016 5:30 AM, Johan Engelen wrote:

 Hi all,

   PR 5850 is proposing to add a predefined (reserved) version identifier
   for the>
 PS4 OS: "PS4" [1].
 Thanks for your comment (preferably with an alternative suggestion in case
 you don't like "PS4").

 Thanks,

   Johan

 [1] https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/5850


 As others suggested, me kinda prefer "PlayStation4" as there's little doubt
 what that refers to.


I wouldn't have expected any doubt about what PS4 meant. What else would it
mean other than Playstation 4? I would have thought that that would be
obvious, and Playstation4 would be overly verbose in comparison (not to
mention, it stands feeling weird without a space when it's all spelled out
like that). But I won't be writing any code involving any gaming consoles,
so I don't exactly have much of a horse in this race.

- Jonathan M Davis
Jun 13 2016
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/13/2016 12:56 PM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d wrote:

 I wouldn't have expected any doubt about what PS4 meant. What else would it
 mean other than Playstation 4?


The TLA space is pretty limited.


 I would have thought that that would be
 obvious, and Playstation4 would be overly verbose in comparison (not to
 mention, it stands feeling weird without a space when it's all spelled out
 like that).


It's not like anyone is going to run out of disk/memory space having 
"PlayStation4" strings in it. :-)

My general stylistic opinion is that global names should be a bit verbose, and 
local names should be short. (Yes, you can find counterexamples in the code
I've 
written.) Instead of having a naming convention grammar for globals vs locals,
I 
find the length to be quite effective.
Jun 13 2016