digitalmars.D - Unification
- Zexx (13/13) Dec 02 2009 Have you heard of language called Vala? They came to the same idea - C# ...
- Frank Bolton (2/4) Dec 02 2009 There is always freepascal/lazarus for people still pining for the Delph...
- Zexx (2/9) Dec 02 2009
- Frank Bolton (2/16) Dec 02 2009 I use it when I can - its much improved in recent years :-)
- yigal chripun (2/29) Dec 02 2009 My personal opinion - Vala is a waste unnecessary effort. Vala is a 99.9...
- Jesse Phillips (3/4) Dec 02 2009 It looks to me as though this should be asked of the Vala devs. Vala doe...
scripting language for web apps, but it's not suitable for demanding applications. I myself used Delphi for a long time because Object Pascal provided me with all the modern features and modern IDE that left competitors in dust. Especiall Microsoft's pityful Visual Studio 6. Unfortunately, Microsoft responded by buying shares of Borland, made them go NET and... that was the end of Delphi as native language. Embarcadero isn't "el salvatore" either. have modern languages, but their programs waste 10 times more memory than necessary and aren't suitable for resource demanding applications. The creators of D and Vala know why they created it. Maybe there are other similar projects. But why work separately? There's no chance for success when working like that. I propose uniting. Lets make programmers busy on the same goal, instead of 5 separate ones. Making a modern language is only the first part. Other parts are harder. 1. Quality, fast, optimizing cross-platform compilers. Speed of compilation is important too. 2. IDEs where you can write and debug code, but NOT only that. IDEs where you can create visual applications with ease. There will be no popularity util there's a visual forms editor similar to that in MS Visual Studio or Delphi. 3. Lots of libraries for all purposes (including ports of existing libraries), so that one doesn't have to reinvent the wheel every time a different project is started. 4. A dedicated web site where you can upload and download libraries and components, whether free or commercial. Where you can find everything you need when you need it, or a place where you can share (or sell) libraries that you made. 5. Lots of shiny, new, beautiful visual controls already coming in the package. Some programmers are happy if their programs use standard Linux or Windows style. That's not enough anymore. Programs made with a new tool that kicks arse must attract people. Not only by functionality and usability, but by looks too. So that new programmers wish to make their applications in that and not in other development tools. Mediocre-looking software won't win any followers. A dedicated team that makes controls must be formed. And they shouldn't just copy Office 2007 controls, they should be beyond that. Programs written in a new unified language must look excellent and modern, to attract young programmers and increase overall popularity of the new language / environment. Those are all the necessary steps. None of that is unnecessary. Without that D and Vala will stay just experiments. And nobody wants that. Except maybe Microsoft, Sun and Google.
Dec 02 2009
Zexx Wrote:I myself used Delphi for a long time because Object Pascal provided me with all the modern features and modern IDE that left competitors in dust. Especiall Microsoft's pityful Visual Studio 6. Unfortunately, Microsoft responded by buying shares of Borland, made them go NET and... that was the end of Delphi as native language. Embarcadero isn't "el salvatore" either.There is always freepascal/lazarus for people still pining for the Delphi :-)
Dec 02 2009
Yeah, they do. Ever tried using it? :) Frank Bolton Wrote:Zexx Wrote:I myself used Delphi for a long time because Object Pascal provided me with all the modern features and modern IDE that left competitors in dust. Especiall Microsoft's pityful Visual Studio 6. Unfortunately, Microsoft responded by buying shares of Borland, made them go NET and... that was the end of Delphi as native language. Embarcadero isn't "el salvatore" either.There is always freepascal/lazarus for people still pining for the Delphi :-)
Dec 02 2009
Frank Bolton <frbltn btinternet.com> Zexx Wrote:Yeah, they do. Ever tried using it? :) Frank Bolton Wrote:I use it when I can - its much improved in recent years :-)Zexx Wrote:I myself used Delphi for a long time because Object Pascal provided me with all the modern features and modern IDE that left competitors in dust. Especiall Microsoft's pityful Visual Studio 6. Unfortunately, Microsoft responded by buying shares of Borland, made them go NET and... that was the end of Delphi as native language. Embarcadero isn't "el salvatore" either.There is always freepascal/lazarus for people still pining for the Delphi :-)
Dec 02 2009
Zexx Wrote:scripting language for web apps, but it's not suitable for demanding applications. I myself used Delphi for a long time because Object Pascal provided me with all the modern features and modern IDE that left competitors in dust. Especiall Microsoft's pityful Visual Studio 6. Unfortunately, Microsoft responded by buying shares of Borland, made them go NET and... that was the end of Delphi as native language. Embarcadero isn't "el salvatore" either. programmers have modern languages, but their programs waste 10 times more memory than necessary and aren't suitable for resource demanding applications. The creators of D and Vala know why they created it. Maybe there are other similar projects. But why work separately? There's no chance for success when working like that. I propose uniting. Lets make programmers busy on the same goal, instead of 5 separate ones. Making a modern language is only the first part. Other parts are harder. 1. Quality, fast, optimizing cross-platform compilers. Speed of compilation is important too. 2. IDEs where you can write and debug code, but NOT only that. IDEs where you can create visual applications with ease. There will be no popularity util there's a visual forms editor similar to that in MS Visual Studio or Delphi. 3. Lots of libraries for all purposes (including ports of existing libraries), so that one doesn't have to reinvent the wheel every time a different project is started. 4. A dedicated web site where you can upload and download libraries and components, whether free or commercial. Where you can find everything you need when you need it, or a place where you can share (or sell) libraries that you made. 5. Lots of shiny, new, beautiful visual controls already coming in the package. Some programmers are happy if their programs use standard Linux or Windows style. That's not enough anymore. Programs made with a new tool that kicks arse must attract people. Not only by functionality and usability, but by looks too. So that new programmers wish to make their applications in that and not in other development tools. Mediocre-looking software won't win any followers. A dedicated team that makes controls must be formed. And they shouldn't just copy Office 2007 controls, they should be beyond that. Programs written in a new unified language must look excellent and modern, to attract young programmers and increase overall popularity of the new language / environment. Those are all the necessary steps. None of that is unnecessary. Without that D and Vala will stay just experiments. And nobody wants that. Except maybe Microsoft, Sun and Google.My personal opinion - Vala is a waste unnecessary effort. Vala is a 99.9% a would have just use the .net version or the mon version if I'm on *nix. I don't see any benefit in using the C based Gobject system either.
Dec 02 2009
Zexx Wrote:The creators of D and Vala know why they created it. Maybe there are other similar projects. But why work separately? There's no chance for success when working like that.It looks to me as though this should be asked of the Vala devs. Vala does have a different goal than that of D. The could probably have made use of D by providing proper libraries to achieve their goal. It appeared 5 years after D so you won't see D enthusiasts jumping on the chance to abandon it. (Vala is of course someone's pet project and they wouldn't abandon it to help the development of someone else's pet project.)
Dec 02 2009