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digitalmars.D - Research breakthrough from the Haskell team

reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
We certainly could learn from it:

http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html

Andrei
Dec 03 2010
next sibling parent reply Seth Briars <self sethbriars.name> writes:
On 04/12/10 00:42, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 We certainly could learn from it:

 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html


 Andrei


Excellent dig; surprised you uncovered it.  Now begs the question "who 
gives a shit about D?" apart from me who has read every post on this 
newsgroup since day one (and of course every Haskell NG posting as well)

Seth.
Dec 03 2010
next sibling parent Some Loser <someloser sethbriars.house> writes:
Seth Briars Wrote:


 Excellent dig; surprised you uncovered it.  Now begs the question "who 
 gives a shit about D?" apart from me who has read every post on this 
 newsgroup since day one (and of course every Haskell NG posting as well)


Your mom told me last night that she loved D.  Didn't you hear her screaming it?

Now I thought I told you to get back under your bridge before I whip you!  No
more internet for you!
Dec 03 2010
prev sibling parent Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> writes:
Seth Briars Wrote:


 On 04/12/10 00:42, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 We certainly could learn from it:

 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html


 Andrei


 
 Excellent dig; surprised you uncovered it.  Now begs the question "who 
 gives a shit about D?" apart from me who has read every post on this 
 newsgroup since day one (and of course every Haskell NG posting as well)
 
 Seth.


So Seth,

Do you ever eat, sleep, get pissed as a rat, have sex, or just be irresponsible
for a couple of days and do nothing?

Possibly I should stop reading anything about computer programming. My
persistent habit of doing so might account for my many failings in life. To
think what might have happened if ...

Steve
Dec 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Andrei Alexandrescu" <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote in message 
news:idas6m$12se$1 digitalmars.com...

 We certainly could learn from it:

 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html


Ha! That's great! :)
Dec 03 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Ary Borenszweig <ary esperanto.org.ar> writes:
On 12/03/2010 10:42 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 We certainly could learn from it:

 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html


 Andrei


Heh, I was just going to share that today. :-P



"I'm really disappointed that more programmers don't get actively 
involved in reading endless threads about how to subvert Haskell's type 
system to accomplish basic shit you can do in other languages. But I 
guess that's the lazy, ignorant, careless world we live in: the 
so-called 'real' world."
Dec 03 2010
prev sibling parent reply Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:
On 3/12/10 1:42 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 We certainly could learn from it:

 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html


 Andrei


Seems to have touched a nerve with Bartosz!

...

Bartosz Milewski said...
Whatever bit you, Stevey? Why rant against Haskell? Have you been 
recently bullied by Haskellites? I thought they were pretty harmless.

BTW, since when are you running on a populist platform? I mean, you'll 
get a lot of votes from yahoos who don't give a shit about anything that 
happens outside of their villages. You're giving them an excuse to 
dismiss and ridicule anything they don't understand, not only monads or 
category theory. I can see them marching behind you with pitchforks and 
torches ready to ban exceptions, templates, STL, and all this highbrow 
stuff. It would be funny if it weren't already happening even at the top 
software companies (how modern are the Google coding standards?).

...

I think Bartosz makes a good point about Steve's post giving people a 
reason to dismiss things they don't understand. On the other hand, Steve 
does highlight the fact that those ultra-abstract features are just 
meaningless to the vast majority of programmers.
Dec 04 2010
parent reply Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 04/12/2010 12:30, Peter Alexander wrote:

 On 3/12/10 1:42 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 We certainly could learn from it:

 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2010/12/haskell-researchers-announce-discovery.html



 Andrei


 Seems to have touched a nerve with Bartosz!

 ...

 Bartosz Milewski said...
 Whatever bit you, Stevey? Why rant against Haskell? Have you been
 recently bullied by Haskellites? I thought they were pretty harmless.

 BTW, since when are you running on a populist platform? I mean, you'll
 get a lot of votes from yahoos who don't give a shit about anything that
 happens outside of their villages. You're giving them an excuse to
 dismiss and ridicule anything they don't understand, not only monads or
 category theory. I can see them marching behind you with pitchforks and
 torches ready to ban exceptions, templates, STL, and all this highbrow
 stuff. It would be funny if it weren't already happening even at the top
 software companies (how modern are the Google coding standards?).

 ...

 I think Bartosz makes a good point about Steve's post giving people a
 reason to dismiss things they don't understand. On the other hand, Steve
 does highlight the fact that those ultra-abstract features are just
 meaningless to the vast majority of programmers.


I wonder what he means with the "It would be funny if it weren't already 
happening even at the top software companies (how modern are the Google 
coding standards?)". Like, are they banning some stuff from C++ or other 
languages that they perceive as "highbrow" ?

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Dec 14 2010
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
Bruno Medeiros Wrote:


 On 04/12/2010 12:30, Peter Alexander wrote:
 
 I wonder what he means with the "It would be funny if it weren't already 
 happening even at the top software companies (how modern are the Google 
 coding standards?)". Like, are they banning some stuff from C++ or other 
 languages that they perceive as "highbrow" ?


Exceptions are banned for pragmatic reasons--some of the Google code is not
exception safe and it would be too difficult to change it.  I can't recall the
policy on templates offhand.
Dec 14 2010
next sibling parent Russel Winder <russel russel.org.uk> writes:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 13:16 -0500, Sean Kelly wrote:
[ . . . ]

 Exceptions are banned for pragmatic reasons--some of the Google code is n=


ot exception safe and it would be too difficult to change it.  I can't reca=
ll the policy on templates offhand.

I wonder if the fact that Go has no exceptions system relates to this in
some way?
--=20
Russel.
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=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel russel.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
Dec 14 2010
prev sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Sean Kelly" <sean invisibleduck.org> wrote in message 
news:ie8c9l$hfo$1 digitalmars.com...

 Bruno Medeiros Wrote:


 On 04/12/2010 12:30, Peter Alexander wrote:

 I wonder what he means with the "It would be funny if it weren't already
 happening even at the top software companies (how modern are the Google
 coding standards?)". Like, are they banning some stuff from C++ or other
 languages that they perceive as "highbrow" ?


 Exceptions are banned for pragmatic reasons--some of the Google code is 
 not exception safe and it would be too difficult to change it.  I can't 
 recall the policy on templates offhand.


Yes, and although I don't remember any specifics either, I did notice when I 
was reading through Google's coding standards that a lot of the advanced C++ 
features that were banned, were banned for reasons that boil down to notable 
problems with C++'s version of the feature. In other words, I got the 
impression that Google would allow most of those things in a langauge that 
wasn't as sucky as C++.

Which reminds me: Has C++ ever gotten the "finally" clause? I'm pretty sure 
it didn't originally have it. (I don't remember if this is true of Google or 
not, but if C++, or at least pre-C++1x, doesn't have "finally", then I can 
definitely imagine a company banning C++ exceptions on those grounds.)
Dec 14 2010