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digitalmars.D - Reminds me of?

reply Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> writes:
To the D Faithful:

In recent postings, I have increasingly seen  references to the 'Select Few'.

This kind of reminds me of Iran, where you have 'The Guardian Council', and
'The Supreme Leader'.

Now admittedly, this may be an improvement on the C++ standards committee, but
is it the right way to go. Is some form of democracy that bad?

If we are to have a 'Guardian Council' to protect us from heresy, then should
it not immediately prohibit the heresy of two standard libraries?

Then maybe we could get to the point of having a nice clean Theocracy system
where __the__ standard library could be controlled by the 'Select Few', but we
could also have a mobile 'potential standard library' where D addicts could
contribute freely to some version control system that could on a popular vote
basis be easily rolled back (by the 'Select Few' of course)?

Forgive my cynicism, but I have spent most of my working life either trying to
make some money myself, or working for companies that were trying to make some
money. There has to be some direction, and I'm not seeing the leadership I'd
like to anywhere in the D community at present.

Are there D enthusiasts out there who feel they could handle this task? If so,
please nominate yourselves, and let's have a vote, then there would at least be
some popular mandate to break out of the status quo.

Superdan - how about it?

Steve
Jul 02 2009
next sibling parent reply Mike L. <sgtmuffles myrealbox.com> writes:
Steve Teale Wrote:

No no, you're doing it wrong. It's HITLER that you're supposed to compare them
to, not Islamic Fundamentalists.
Jul 02 2009
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Mike L. wrote:

 No no, you're doing it wrong. It's HITLER that you're supposed to compare them
to, not Islamic Fundamentalists.


By the Secret Rules of Internet Flame Wars, the first person to bring up 
nazis loses!
Jul 02 2009
parent "Lars T. Kyllingstad" <public kyllingen.NOSPAMnet> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Mike L. wrote:

 No no, you're doing it wrong. It's HITLER that you're supposed to 
 compare them to, not Islamic Fundamentalists.


 
 By the Secret Rules of Internet Flame Wars, the first person to bring up 
 nazis loses!



Ah, yes, Godwin's Law.

http://xkcd.com/261/

-Lars :)
Jul 02 2009
prev sibling next sibling parent reply superdan <super dan.org> writes:
Steve Teale Wrote:


 To the D Faithful:
 
 In recent postings, I have increasingly seen  references to the 'Select Few'.
 
 This kind of reminds me of Iran, where you have 'The Guardian Council', and
'The Supreme Leader'.
 
 Now admittedly, this may be an improvement on the C++ standards committee, but
is it the right way to go. Is some form of democracy that bad?
 
 If we are to have a 'Guardian Council' to protect us from heresy, then should
it not immediately prohibit the heresy of two standard libraries?
 
 Then maybe we could get to the point of having a nice clean Theocracy system
where __the__ standard library could be controlled by the 'Select Few', but we
could also have a mobile 'potential standard library' where D addicts could
contribute freely to some version control system that could on a popular vote
basis be easily rolled back (by the 'Select Few' of course)?
 
 Forgive my cynicism, but I have spent most of my working life either trying to
make some money myself, or working for companies that were trying to make some
money. There has to be some direction, and I'm not seeing the leadership I'd
like to anywhere in the D community at present.
 
 Are there D enthusiasts out there who feel they could handle this task? If so,
please nominate yourselves, and let's have a vote, then there would at least be
some popular mandate to break out of the status quo.
 
 Superdan - how about it?
 
 Steve
 


diagnosis: heat stroke. buy an aircon. now seriously steve: what the fuck?
Jul 02 2009
parent Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> writes:
superdan Wrote:


 
 Superdan - how about it?
 
 Steve
 


 
 diagnosis: heat stroke. buy an aircon. now seriously steve: what the fuck?


No, come on man, you can do it - the name says it all! ;=)

Aircon's no good here. When you need them, the power will be off.
Jul 03 2009
prev sibling next sibling parent Yigal Chripun <yigal spam.come> writes:
Steve Teale Wrote:


 To the D Faithful:
 
 In recent postings, I have increasingly seen  references to the 'Select Few'.
 
 This kind of reminds me of Iran, where you have 'The Guardian Council', and
'The Supreme Leader'.
 
 Now admittedly, this may be an improvement on the C++ standards committee, but
is it the right way to go. Is some form of democracy that bad?
 
 If we are to have a 'Guardian Council' to protect us from heresy, then should
it not immediately prohibit the heresy of two standard libraries?
 
 Then maybe we could get to the point of having a nice clean Theocracy system
where __the__ standard library could be controlled by the 'Select Few', but we
could also have a mobile 'potential standard library' where D addicts could
contribute freely to some version control system that could on a popular vote
basis be easily rolled back (by the 'Select Few' of course)?
 
 Forgive my cynicism, but I have spent most of my working life either trying to
make some money myself, or working for companies that were trying to make some
money. There has to be some direction, and I'm not seeing the leadership I'd
like to anywhere in the D community at present.
 
 Are there D enthusiasts out there who feel they could handle this task? If so,
please nominate yourselves, and let's have a vote, then there would at least be
some popular mandate to break out of the status quo.
 
 Superdan - how about it?
 
 Steve
 


I have to agree with your sentiment about lack of leadership, and lack of
direction.

As I already said before, there needs to be some process for making decisions
for D. it doesn't have to be democratic but it does have to exist.
Jul 03 2009
prev sibling parent reply Don <nospam nospam.com> writes:
Steve Teale wrote:

 To the D Faithful:
 
 In recent postings, I have increasingly seen  references to the 'Select Few'.

 This kind of reminds me of Iran, where you have 'The Guardian 


Council', and 'The Supreme Leader'.

The similarities are pretty weak, I'd say.
Who ARE the 'Select Few'? There's two possibilities people could be 
talking about:
(a) the people who meet weekly with Walter in a coffee shop and discuss D;
or (b) those with write access to Phobos and druntime.

To be part of (a), you need to live in Seattle.
To be part of (b), you need to provide a few good-quality patches in 
Bugzilla.

I don't think there's anything more to it than that. I think people are 
imagining some secret society that doesn't actually exist.
Jul 03 2009
next sibling parent reply Jarrett Billingsley <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Don<nospam nospam.com> wrote:

 Steve Teale wrote:

 To the D Faithful:

 In recent postings, I have increasingly seen =A0references to the 'Selec=




t

 Few'.



 This kind of reminds me of Iran, where you have 'The Guardian Council',
 and 'The Supreme Leader'.


 The similarities are pretty weak, I'd say.
 Who ARE the 'Select Few'? There's two possibilities people could be talki=


ng

 about:
 (a) the people who meet weekly with Walter in a coffee shop and discuss D=


;

 or (b) those with write access to Phobos and druntime.

 To be part of (a), you need to live in Seattle.
 To be part of (b), you need to provide a few good-quality patches in
 Bugzilla.

 I don't think there's anything more to it than that. I think people are
 imagining some secret society that doesn't actually exist.


I don't speak for anyone else but when I see "the select few" I think
of (a).  As in, that seems to be where the majority of important
design discussions take place, and the rest of the community isn't
privy to it (except when one of the Big Three posts something on
Reddit about the outcomes of said discussions).

The frustrating thing about the design process of D is that it is, for
all intents and purposes, a black box.  Community gives input, random
other things come out with no advance indication.  How it works is a
mystery.  Maybe being at the coffeehouse doesn't really change that, I
don't know.  Maybe there _isn't_ any kind of plan or direction.  Maybe
it's not that the design process is opaque, but simply nonexistent.
Don't you think it's more than a little irksome when a couple of
popular C++ developers come along and have more influence on the
design of D than a community of dozens of hackers who have been
(ab)using it for years?
Jul 03 2009
parent bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley:

 The frustrating thing about the design process of D is that it is, for
 all intents and purposes, a black box.


What are you doing now/lately, Walter, on D and why? :-)



 Don't you think it's more than a little irksome when a couple of
 popular C++ developers come along and have more influence on the
 design of D than a community of dozens of hackers who have been
 (ab)using it for years?


In few days Andrei has done good things the API of the regex module, so I am
willing to let people more expert than me to design APIs and other things.

But sometimes I'd like Walter to listen more often to what most users ask for.
If most users ask for something, but they not ask for another thing, there can
be some meaning and brain behind that.

And is Walter using D enough, to write real programs? Otherwise users may know
what's useful for D more than the person that implements the language itself :-)

Bye,
bearophile
Jul 03 2009
prev sibling parent downs <default_357-line yahoo.de> writes:
Don wrote:

 Steve Teale wrote:

 To the D Faithful:

 In recent postings, I have increasingly seen  references to the
 'Select Few'.

 This kind of reminds me of Iran, where you have 'The Guardian


 Council', and 'The Supreme Leader'.
 
 The similarities are pretty weak, I'd say.
 Who ARE the 'Select Few'? There's two possibilities people could be
 talking about:
 (a) the people who meet weekly with Walter in a coffee shop and discuss D;
 or (b) those with write access to Phobos and druntime.
 


You forgot (c) the lizard people.
Jul 03 2009