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digitalmars.D - Rebuild - an annoying feature

reply Ty Tower <tytower hotmail.com.au> writes:
Alright so its rebuild's fault
Good - Where can it be going wrong?
Ty Tower wrote:

 Gregor Richards Wrote:


 Ty Tower wrote:

 DSSS is looking pretty good as a builder but one thing that wastes my time is
if it hangs up somewhere building a list of say 30 files I go back fix the
problem and then issue build again .
 Dsss then instantly wipes what has been compiled already and starts again !

 Is there a way to make it ignore work already done if you want it to ?


 Simply put, this is completely and totally incorrect. It is in fact the
 opposite of the truth.

   - Gregor Richards


 OK so mine IS doing this, which apparently it should not
 I have been building dwt-examples  and I have watched it start again 4 times
so far today,
 It has done so since I started that's why its an annoying feature . Perhaps
something happened in the latest updates?
 then I remade the dsss.conf file and deleted what had been already compiled
and used that to avoid the issue.


Perhaps the confusion is in the fact that DSSS does in fact issue
rebuild commands every time. rebuild itself does not build anything
that's already been built.

  - Gregor Richards
The confusion is with the whole "D" lot -for Linux its a bloody frightful mess
Mar 09 2008
parent reply Ty Tower <tytower hotmail.com.au> writes:
Yes well it seems it is still yours Gregor. I don't see anything here to alter
that behaviour anyway so it must be a preset default. So why would it be doing
the opposite?
Your credibility to future users is on the line here !

[tytower linuxbox ~]$ rebuild --help
ReBuild version 0.75 (based on DMD 2.008)
Copyright (c) 1999-2007 by Digital Mars and Gregor Richards written by Walter
Bright and Gregor Richards
Documentation: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/index.html
Usage:
  rebuild files.d ... { -switch }

  files.d        D source files
  -rf<filename>  Use specified response file
  -dc=<compiler> use the specified compiler configuration
  -p             do not compile (or link)
  -c             do not link
  -D             generate documentation
  -Dddocdir      write documentation files to docdir directory
  -Dffilename    write documentation file to filename
  -Dqdocdir      write documentation files to docdir directory with
                 fully-qualified file names
  -lib           link a static library
  -libs-safe     exit failure or success for whether libraries can be safely
                 be used with any D code
  -shlib         link a shared library
  -shlib-support exit failure or success for whether shared libraries are
                 supported
  -dylib         link a dynamic library (a library intended to be loaded at
                 runtime)
  -dylib-support exit failure or success for whether dynamic libraries are
                 supported
  -debuglib=name    set symbolic debug library to name
  -defaultlib=name  set default library to name
  -g             add symbolic debug info
  -gc            add symbolic debug info, pretend to be C
  -files         list files which would be compiled (but don't compile)
  -notfound      list files which are imported, but do not exist (and don't
                 compile)
  -objfiles      list object files generated
  -keeprfiles    Keep response files (if they are used)
  -full          compile all source files, regardless of their age
  -explicit      only compile files explicitly named, not dependencies
  --help         print help
  -Ipath         where to look for imports
  -Ccompileflag  pass compileflag to compilation
  -Llinkerflag   pass linkerflag to the linker at link time
  -Klinkerflag   pass linkerflag to the compiler at link time
  -ll<lib>       link in the specified library
                 Windows: Link to <lib>.lib
                 Posix: Link to lib<lib>.{a,so}
  -Spath         search path for libraries
  -O             optimize
  -oqobjdir      write object files to directory objdir with fully-qualified
                 module names
  -odobjdir      write object files to directory objdir
  -offilename    name output file to filename
  -quiet         suppress unnecessary messages
  -release       compile release version
  -exec          run resulting program
  -v             verbose
  -n             just list the commands to be run, don't run them
  -version=level compile in version code >= level
  -version=ident compile in version code identified by ident
  -debug         compile in debug code
  -debug=level   compile in debug code <= level
  -debug=ident   compile in debug code identified by ident
  -clean         remove object files after done building
  -no-export-dynamic do not export dynamic symbols. Dynamic symbols are
                 exported by default on POSIX to support .so files
  -circular      allow circular dependencies to work on some compilers (namely
                 GDC)
  -testversion=<version>
                 exit failure or success for whether the specified version is
                 defined
  -reflect       use drefgen to make rodin-compatible reflections of all
                 included modules
  -candydoc      generate the modules.ddoc file for candydoc (must specify -Dq)
  All other flags are passed to the compiler.
Mar 09 2008
parent reply Ty Tower <tytower hotmail.com.au> writes:
I don't see anything wrong in jesse's dsss.conf file either
The commented out files have problems

[*]
debugflags+=-g -gc -debug

#used for dwtsnippets/text/Snippet258
#dwtsnippets/expandbar/Snippet223
buildflags+=-Jdwtsnippets/images

version(Windows){
    #buildflags+= -L/SUBSYSTEM:windows:5
    buildflags+= -L/SUBSYSTEM:console:5
}





#version(linux){



[dwtexamples/simple.d]

[dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld1.d]
[dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld2.d]
[dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld3.d]
[dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld4.d]
[dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld5.d]

[dwtsnippets/button/Snippet293.d]
[dwtsnippets/combo/Snippet26.d]
[dwtsnippets/composite/Snippet9.d]
[dwtsnippets/coolbar/Snippet20.d]
[dwtsnippets/ctabfolder/Snippet165.d]
[dwtsnippets/directorydialog/Snippet33.d]
[dwtsnippets/expandbar/Snippet223.d]
[dwtsnippets/menu/Snippet29.d]
[dwtsnippets/menu/Snippet97.d]
[dwtsnippets/sash/Snippet107.d]
[dwtsnippets/styledtext/Snippet163.d]
[dwtsnippets/styledtext/Snippet189.d]
[dwtsnippets/table/Snippet38.d]
[dwtsnippets/table/Snippet144.d]
[dwtsnippets/text/Snippet258.d]
[dwtsnippets/tooltips/Snippet41.d]
[dwtsnippets/tray/Snippet143.d]
[dwtsnippets/tree/Snippet8.d]
[dwtsnippets/tree/Snippet15.d]



[user/drawingboard/DrawingBoard.d]
[user/torhu_synctest.d]

version(Derelict){
[dwtsnippets/opengl/Snippet195.d]
}

[dwtexamples/addressbook/AddressBook.d]
buildflags+=-g -gc -debug
version(Windows){
    buildflags+= -L/SUBSYSTEM:console:5
}
buildflags+=-Jdwtexamples/addressbook

[dwtexamples/controlexample/ControlExample.d]
buildflags+=-g -gc -debug
version(Windows){
    buildflags+= -L/SUBSYSTEM:console:5
}
buildflags+=-Jdwtexamples/controlexample
buildflags+=-version=CONTROL_EXAMPLE_MAIN

[dwtexamples/controlexample/CustomControlExample.d]
buildflags+=-g -gc -debug
version(Windows){
    buildflags+= -L/SUBSYSTEM:console:5
}
buildflags+=-Jdwtexamples/controlexample
buildflags+=-version=CUSTOM_CONTROL_EXAMPLE_MAIN

[dwtexamples/texteditor/TextEditor.d]
buildflags+=-g -gc -debug
version(Windows){
    buildflags+= -L/SUBSYSTEM:console:5
}
buildflags+=-Jdwtexamples/texteditor
Mar 09 2008
parent reply Ty Tower <tytower hotmail.com.au> writes:
Pity I can't just add to the old posts still....

Here is output showing it removing the old executeables

[tytower linuxbox dwt-samples-200a229be5ca]$ dsss build
Default prefix /usr is unwritable, using /home/tytower/d instead.

Removing dwtexamples/simple

Removing dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld1

Removing dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld2

Removing dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld3

Removing dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld4

Removing dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld5

Removing dwtsnippets/button/Snippet293

Removing dwtsnippets/combo/Snippet26

Removing dwtsnippets/composite/Snippet9

Removing dwtsnippets/coolbar/Snippet20

Removing dwtsnippets/ctabfolder/Snippet165

Removing dwtsnippets/directorydialog/Snippet33

Removing dwtsnippets/expandbar/Snippet223

Removing dwtsnippets/menu/Snippet29

Removing dwtsnippets/menu/Snippet97

Removing dwtsnippets/sash/Snippet107

Removing dwtsnippets/styledtext/Snippet163

Removing dwtsnippets/styledtext/Snippet189

Removing dwtsnippets/table/Snippet38

Removing dwtsnippets/table/Snippet144

Removing dwtsnippets/text/Snippet258

Removing dwtsnippets/tooltips/Snippet41

Removing dwtsnippets/tray/Snippet143

Removing dwtsnippets/tree/Snippet8

Removing dwtsnippets/tree/Snippet15

Removing user/drawingboard/DrawingBoard

Removing user/torhu_synctest

Removing dwtexamples/addressbook/AddressBook

Removing dwtexamples/controlexample/ControlExample

Removing dwtexamples/controlexample/CustomControlExample

Removing dwtexamples/texteditor/TextEditor
Mar 09 2008
parent reply Gregor Richards <Richards codu.org> writes:
Ty Tower wrote:

 Pity I can't just add to the old posts still....
 
 Here is output showing it removing the old executeables
 
 [tytower linuxbox dwt-samples-200a229be5ca]$ dsss build
 Default prefix /usr is unwritable, using /home/tytower/d instead.
 
 Removing dwtexamples/simple
 
 Removing dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld1
 
 Removing dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld2
 
 Removing dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld3
 
 Removing dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld4
 
 Removing dwtexamples/helloworld/HelloWorld5
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/button/Snippet293
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/combo/Snippet26
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/composite/Snippet9
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/coolbar/Snippet20
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/ctabfolder/Snippet165
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/directorydialog/Snippet33
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/expandbar/Snippet223
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/menu/Snippet29
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/menu/Snippet97
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/sash/Snippet107
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/styledtext/Snippet163
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/styledtext/Snippet189
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/table/Snippet38
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/table/Snippet144
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/text/Snippet258
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/tooltips/Snippet41
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/tray/Snippet143
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/tree/Snippet8
 
 Removing dwtsnippets/tree/Snippet15
 
 Removing user/drawingboard/DrawingBoard
 
 Removing user/torhu_synctest
 
 Removing dwtexamples/addressbook/AddressBook
 
 Removing dwtexamples/controlexample/ControlExample
 
 Removing dwtexamples/controlexample/CustomControlExample
 
 Removing dwtexamples/texteditor/TextEditor
 


Is this after you changed dsss.conf? Everything is cleaned up after 
changing dsss.conf, since it doesn't know if the changes will alter the 
build in a non-backwards-compatible way.


 The confusion is with the whole "D" lot -for Linux its a bloody
 frightful mess


No, the confusion is not with the whole D community, it's you. We (by 
which I mean the D community) seem to be in agreement that you're just 
an idiot. You ask extremely vague questions without describing the 
scenario at all, and then when you're asked to describe the scenario, 
you describe something utterly irrelevant. Gee, I could have actually 
given a useful response if you had posted a log in the first place, but 
that's what a sensible person would have done.

The D community is small and always needs more people, but we don't need 
morons.

  - Gregor Richards
Mar 09 2008
parent reply Ty Tower <tytower hotmail.com.au> writes:
Gregor Richards Wrote:
 but he's not too smart ,I see why the problems and why so few users 

Keep covering your arse son and some fools will believe you and persevere.
100 or so users in 4 years -not doing too well son
Mar 10 2008
next sibling parent Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org> writes:
Ty Tower wrote:

 Gregor Richards Wrote:
  but he's not too smart ,I see why the problems and why so few users 
 
 Keep covering your arse son and some fools will believe you and persevere.
 100 or so users in 4 years -not doing too well son


Wash your tongue.

Also, I don't see where Gregor wrote "but he's not too smart ,I see why 
the prolems and why so few users". You fail, seriously, in all ways 
possible.

DSSS and rebuild are operating completely correct. Just because you 
don't get how to use it, doesn't mean it's not working properly. So 
either you go read the fine manual, or you can pretty much go to hell. 
Being a smart-ass without any sort of knowledge to back it is kind of 
stupid.
Mar 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:
Ty Tower wrote:

 Gregor Richards Wrote:
  but he's not too smart ,I see why the problems and why so few users 


lol, no he didn't. ^_^ you fail, please try again.
Mar 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jb" <jb nowhere.com> writes:
"Ty Tower" <tytower hotmail.com.au> wrote in message 
news:fr2r6r$1brv$1 digitalmars.com...

 Gregor Richards Wrote:
 but he's not too smart ,I see why the problems and why so few users

 Keep covering your arse son and some fools will believe you and persevere.
 100 or so users in 4 years -not doing too well son


They let you download and use their software for free, they even try to help 
you for free. And all you do is act like a spoilt child who thinks the whole 
world owes you somthing.

It doesnt.

If you cant be polite, then you will always be shunned on any adult 
programing forum. I suspect with your attitude you probably experience that 
in many areas of your life.

So i sugest you grow up.. or else..

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2787/fail2it9.jpg
Mar 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply "Neil Vice" <psgdg swiftdsl.com.au> writes:
"Ty Tower" <tytower hotmail.com.au> wrote in message 
news:fr2r6r$1brv$1 digitalmars.com...

 Gregor Richards Wrote:
 but he's not too smart ,I see why the problems and why so few users

 Keep covering your arse son and some fools will believe you and persevere.
 100 or so users in 4 years -not doing too well son


I must admit I have been very frustrated with D at times as I expected too 
much of an alpha version (D2 is still considered alpha yes?) that I 
understand now is still under heavy development and I have been very pleased 
by the changes I've seen particularly in 2.011 and 2.012. I have found 
myself using D after having been disappointed by many other languages, fussy 
as I am.

Given the amount of criticism you appear to have of D, related projects and 
the people involved I have to ask, why then are you using it?
Mar 10 2008
parent reply Ty Tower <tytower hotmail.com.au> writes:
Neil Vice Wrote:


 "Ty Tower" <tytower hotmail.com.au> wrote in message 
 news:fr2r6r$1brv$1 digitalmars.com...

 Gregor Richards Wrote:
 but he's not too smart ,I see why the problems and why so few users

 Keep covering your arse son and some fools will believe you and persevere.
 100 or so users in 4 years -not doing too well son


 
 I must admit I have been very frustrated with D at times as I expected too 
 much of an alpha version (D2 is still considered alpha yes?) that I 
 understand now is still under heavy development and I have been very pleased 
 by the changes I've seen particularly in 2.011 and 2.012. I have found 
 myself using D after having been disappointed by many other languages, fussy 
 as I am.
 
 Given the amount of criticism you appear to have of D, related projects and 
 the people involved I have to ask, why then are you using it?


Thats a fair question
I'm not using it . I hav'nt been able to use it as I have not been satisfied
with the stability of what I have downloaded.
I hav'nt used 2.xx yet I'm still on 1.XX
So I am experimenting with "D" . In fact I am now looking and learning because
I have wasted so much time trying to get it to a useable state I will now
become an ardent critic of "D" in "C" forums-good critics know thei subject
matter

Note that the support for Windows users is probably a lot better as the
distributed .exe files have to be right . I suspect the problem is with
Linux/Unix where the download must be compiled and there are so few user in
this category that no one has looked at this fully yet .  

I originally looked at "D" and thought it was worth knowing about . Getting
into it I intended to write a program which needed SWT or something like it .
If you look there is nothing stable for Unix so I went to dwt which is "alpha".

Well since then - what a mess. Thats why I am critical and the Tango /Phobos
calamity is simply stupid in its present form for Linux

Honestly wherever I go in "D" I find problems . That means it comes from the
heads of the organisation. They are not going to be Google type millionaires I
can tell you.
Cheers
Mar 10 2008
next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to ty,


I suspect the problem is
 with Linux/Unix where the download must be compiled and there are so
 few user in this category that no one has looked at this fully yet .
 


DMD works out of the box on every linux box I've tried. Might you be talking 
about DSSS? It is developed on linux IIRC. Or are you talking about somthing 
else?


 
  They are not going to be Google type millionaires I can tell you.
 


Last time I check, they didn't want to be either.
Mar 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Neil Vice" <psgdg swiftdsl.com.au> writes:
"Ty Tower" <tytower hotmail.com.au> wrote:

 Thats a fair question
 I'm not using it . I hav'nt been able to use it as I have not been 
 satisfied with the stability of what I have downloaded.
 I hav'nt used 2.xx yet I'm still on 1.XX
 So I am experimenting with "D" . In fact I am now looking and learning 
 because I have wasted so much time trying to get it to a useable state I 
 will now become an ardent critic of "D" in "C" forums-good critics know 
 thei subject matter


I don't recall you having any gripes with D as a programming language. Your 
issues seem to be with 3rd-party open-source libraries and tools contributed 
by the D community. Allow me to attempt to address them individually.

Firstly, I also dislike DSSS and rebuild. I don't recall particular 
criticisms with them and I certainly feel no ill will towards the developers 
=) However, particularly the fact that rebuild is/was slow to support 
significant front-end changes in D2 I couldn't wait for it to catch up. What 
do you use to build C code? Make? Make will work just fine with D as well... 
my preference happens to be 'cook' but either way - a criticism of rebuild 
is not a criticism of D any more than a criticism of Make is a criticism of 
C.

As for DWT, a quick visit to the DSource DWT site would indicate that the 
project is still under development. Given this, should you not expect some 
issues? Having said that, as an experiment I am very tempted to install 
linux (Debian being my distribution of choice) and attempt to get the DWT 
examples working to see whether your outrage is justified.


 Note that the support for Windows users is probably a lot better as the 
 distributed .exe files have to be right . I suspect the problem is with 
 Linux/Unix where the download must be compiled and there are so few user 
 in this category that no one has looked at this fully yet .


It would greatly surprise me if there were not many linux D users. I would 
have expected linux users to be more willing to "experiment" with a new 
language like D as a rule... In my experience, doing the same thing under 
Windows and linux, where a tool is available under Windows to perform the 
task, usually requires a bit more effort/patience under linux. That's not to 
say that the result isn't worth the wait, but the very fact that compilation 
is often required means that there is more room for error. How long have you 
been a linux user? I'd be surprised if you hadn't experienced similar 
difficulties using applications other than DMD.


 I originally looked at "D" and thought it was worth knowing about . 
 Getting into it I intended to write a program which needed SWT or 
 something like it . If you look there is nothing stable for Unix so I went 
 to dwt which is "alpha".


And what windowing toolkit comes out-of-the-box with C exactly? I'm not 
saying that they don't exist... but were they written in the 70s by Ritchie 
et. al.? These things take time and are not part of the core language by any 
means. Certainly if you require RAD GUI tools D may not be the language for 
you... at least perhaps not yet. Having said that I would also have thought 


I am personally using D to write a game engine (in theory =P) and short of 
the sort of bugs and const design issues discussed in this NG I have been 
very happy with the language. I am a C++ fan and have been impressed that D 
has provided the power of C++ without the redundancy of syntax (header 
files) and added many useful modern programming tools. I happen to dislike 
both standard libraries and personally think it was a poor choice on the 
part of the Tango developers to break compatibility with Phobos (though this 
may have been resolved recently?) but I'm a reinvent-the-wheel kind of a guy 
anyway and D has allowed me to do so in very elegant ways IMHO.


 Well since then - what a mess. Thats why I am critical and the Tango 
 /Phobos calamity is simply stupid in its present form for Linux

 Honestly wherever I go in "D" I find problems . That means it comes from 
 the heads of the organisation. They are not going to be Google type 
 millionaires I can tell you.


Perhaps your Google comment was simply sarcasm and nothing more, however as 
BCS says, profit is not the motivation behind D. The very fact that such an 
excellent tool has been developed non-commercially by what I understand to 
be a rather small group of people is a testament to the Walter's (and 
others') skill and dedication and I am personally very grateful.

Yes there is much room for improvement, but show me another language with 
the first compiler released last year which meets your criterea? You are 
clearly expecting D to be something it's not, however that's not to say that 
the problems you have encountered are insurmountable. Each tool is not 
suited to every task, but that doesn't make them lesser tools.

As far as your comments regarding "good critics" go, I'm not sure that you 
can be in a position to be critical until you have at least got something 
working. When I first used D I was critical of some of the design decisions 
in the language to the point that I would rant at coworkers in frustration 
=) Since then however, I have read excellent explanations behind these 
decisions on this very NG and have learned the error of my ways. The very 
fact that some clearly intelligent, experienced developers frequent this 
forum and have positive things to say about D suggests to me that something 
must be being done right - and I for one am keen to learn more.

I hope you can find D more useful on another project. Having said that, if 
you are still interested in working with DWT under linux, I could be 
convinced to attempt it myself and detail my results.

Neil
Mar 10 2008
parent reply Ty Tower <tytower hotmail.com.au> writes:
Neil Vice Wrote:


 "Ty Tower" <tytower hotmail.com.au> wrote:

 Thats a fair question
 I'm not using it . I hav'nt been able to use it as I have not been 
 satisfied with the stability of what I have downloaded.
 I hav'nt used 2.xx yet I'm still on 1.XX
 So I am experimenting with "D" . In fact I am now looking and learning 
 because I have wasted so much time trying to get it to a useable state I 
 will now become an ardent critic of "D" in "C" forums-good critics know 
 thei subject matter


 
 I don't recall you having any gripes with D as a programming language. Your 
 issues seem to be with 3rd-party open-source libraries and tools contributed 
 by the D community. Allow me to attempt to address them individually.
 
 Firstly, I also dislike DSSS and rebuild. I don't recall particular 
 criticisms with them and I certainly feel no ill will towards the developers 
 =) However, particularly the fact that rebuild is/was slow to support 
 significant front-end changes in D2 I couldn't wait for it to catch up. What 
 do you use to build C code? Make? Make will work just fine with D as well... 
 my preference happens to be 'cook' but either way - a criticism of rebuild 
 is not a criticism of D any more than a criticism of Make is a criticism of 
 C.
 
 As for DWT, a quick visit to the DSource DWT site would indicate that the 
 project is still under development. Given this, should you not expect some 
 issues? Having said that, as an experiment I am very tempted to install 
 linux (Debian being my distribution of choice) and attempt to get the DWT 
 examples working to see whether your outrage is justified.
 

 Note that the support for Windows users is probably a lot better as the 
 distributed .exe files have to be right . I suspect the problem is with 
 Linux/Unix where the download must be compiled and there are so few user 
 in this category that no one has looked at this fully yet .


 
 It would greatly surprise me if there were not many linux D users. I would 
 have expected linux users to be more willing to "experiment" with a new 
 language like D as a rule... In my experience, doing the same thing under 
 Windows and linux, where a tool is available under Windows to perform the 
 task, usually requires a bit more effort/patience under linux. That's not to 
 say that the result isn't worth the wait, but the very fact that compilation 
 is often required means that there is more room for error. How long have you 
 been a linux user? I'd be surprised if you hadn't experienced similar 
 difficulties using applications other than DMD.
 

 I originally looked at "D" and thought it was worth knowing about . 
 Getting into it I intended to write a program which needed SWT or 
 something like it . If you look there is nothing stable for Unix so I went 
 to dwt which is "alpha".


 
 And what windowing toolkit comes out-of-the-box with C exactly? I'm not 
 saying that they don't exist... but were they written in the 70s by Ritchie 
 et. al.? These things take time and are not part of the core language by any 
 means. Certainly if you require RAD GUI tools D may not be the language for 
 you... at least perhaps not yet. Having said that I would also have thought 

 
 I am personally using D to write a game engine (in theory =P) and short of 
 the sort of bugs and const design issues discussed in this NG I have been 
 very happy with the language. I am a C++ fan and have been impressed that D 
 has provided the power of C++ without the redundancy of syntax (header 
 files) and added many useful modern programming tools. I happen to dislike 
 both standard libraries and personally think it was a poor choice on the 
 part of the Tango developers to break compatibility with Phobos (though this 
 may have been resolved recently?) but I'm a reinvent-the-wheel kind of a guy 
 anyway and D has allowed me to do so in very elegant ways IMHO.
 

 Well since then - what a mess. Thats why I am critical and the Tango 
 /Phobos calamity is simply stupid in its present form for Linux

 Honestly wherever I go in "D" I find problems . That means it comes from 
 the heads of the organisation. They are not going to be Google type 
 millionaires I can tell you.


 
 Perhaps your Google comment was simply sarcasm and nothing more, however as 
 BCS says, profit is not the motivation behind D. The very fact that such an 
 excellent tool has been developed non-commercially by what I understand to 
 be a rather small group of people is a testament to the Walter's (and 
 others') skill and dedication and I am personally very grateful.
 
 Yes there is much room for improvement, but show me another language with 
 the first compiler released last year which meets your criterea? You are 
 clearly expecting D to be something it's not, however that's not to say that 
 the problems you have encountered are insurmountable. Each tool is not 
 suited to every task, but that doesn't make them lesser tools.
 
 As far as your comments regarding "good critics" go, I'm not sure that you 
 can be in a position to be critical until you have at least got something 
 working. When I first used D I was critical of some of the design decisions 
 in the language to the point that I would rant at coworkers in frustration 
 =) Since then however, I have read excellent explanations behind these 
 decisions on this very NG and have learned the error of my ways. The very 
 fact that some clearly intelligent, experienced developers frequent this 
 forum and have positive things to say about D suggests to me that something 
 must be being done right - and I for one am keen to learn more.
 
 I hope you can find D more useful on another project. Having said that, if 
 you are still interested in working with DWT under linux, I could be 
 convinced to attempt it myself and detail my results.
 
 Neil
 



Interesting read Neil and nothing there I could not agree with -Thanks 
I have dwt working and am experimenting -Its worth the look and I do like the
"D"  language itself. I'm not knowledgeable enough to say but isn't dmd just a
wrapped up gcc?
Anyway no matter , its rebuild wrapped as dsss thats giving me problems and
getting good installation notes from digitalmars and tango. All of D Tango
Phobos dwt was new for me a month ago and the old configure ,make ,make install
always worked for me . I must have had failures but only back at least 5 years
ago  
Cheers
Mar 11 2008
parent "Neil Vice" <sardonicpresence gmail.com> writes:
"Ty Tower" <tytower hotmail.com.au> wrote:

 Interesting read Neil and nothing there I could not agree with -Thanks


I am pleased to hear that.


 I have dwt working and am experimenting -Its worth the look and I do like 
 the "D"  language itself.


Good to hear things are working in the end.


 I'm not knowledgeable enough to say but isn't dmd just a wrapped up gcc?


Well, depending on exactly what you mean I suggest that that is not the case 
at all. DMD (and associated OPTLINK) as I understand it have been written 
from scratch by Walter, at least in part based on his previous work on C and 
C++ compilers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Bright

Both being compilers, GCC (or more correctly GDC in the case of D) and DMD 
certainly perform the same task but the code is completely independant, with 
the exception of the shared front-end in the case of GDC - where GDC has 
borrowed from DMD not the other way around.


 Anyway no matter , its rebuild wrapped as dsss thats giving me problems 
 and getting good installation notes from digitalmars and tango. All of D 
 Tango Phobos dwt was new for me a month ago and the old configure ,make 
 ,make install always worked for me . I must have had failures but only 
 back at least 5 years ago


I admit I haven't attempted to build anyone elses code (e.g. the DWT 
examples) but except for a couple of snags I haven't had much issue building 
my own. As far as installation goes, I had a couple of false starts but once 
I realised you can just dump the "dm" and "dmd" directories under e.g. /usr 
and just put /usr/dmd/bin in your PATH then I have had no troubles at all. 
Again I haven't worked with Tango though.

As I indicated previously, I had some issues with rebuild and dsss. I recall 
now that I had some issues with files not being rebuilt unless I explicitly 
"touch"ed them or something and as such went back to 'make' and 'cook' - 
just my personal preference I think. I did have some linking issues where 
DMD didn't generate the odd symbol if I compiled all source files in one 
build, rather than seperate builds with -c then a seperate linking step - 
presumably a compiler bug - but now I've got my own build environment set-up 
I can get on with coding in D =)
Mar 11 2008
prev sibling parent reply Brian Hay <bhay construct3d.com> writes:
Ty Tower wrote:

 I will now become an ardent critic of "D" in "C" forums


Well good luck with that.

If you treat the people on other programming forums with the same 
disrespect and immaturity you've repeatedly demonstrated here I can't 
imagine you'll be made welcome for very long.


 Honestly wherever I go in "D" I find problems. 


People will find problems anywhere if they look hard enough and it seems 
as though you've come here with that express intention.

I'm a comparative newbie to compiled languages and if I can start 
working with D quickly and enjoying every minute of it then anyone 
should be able to, especially someone like you who professes to have 
experience with C.


 That means it comes from the heads of the organisation.


You make it sound like D was conceived and developed by a corporate 
behemoth like Microsoft or Sun. D was conceived by one man, Walter 
Bright, and developed by him and a few others with extensive input and 
feedback from a dynamic, supportive and growing user community. I'm 
sorry you cannot see that and do not want to be a part of the magic.
Mar 10 2008
parent Ty Tower <tytower hotmail.com.au> writes:
Brian Hay Wrote:


 Ty Tower wrote:

 I will now become an ardent critic of "D" in "C" forums


 
 Well good luck with that.
 
 If you treat the people on other programming forums with the same 
 disrespect and immaturity you've repeatedly demonstrated here I can't 
 imagine you'll be made welcome for very long.
 

 Honestly wherever I go in "D" I find problems. 


 
 People will find problems anywhere if they look hard enough and it seems 
 as though you've come here with that express intention.
 
 I'm a comparative newbie to compiled languages and if I can start 
 working with D quickly and enjoying every minute of it then anyone 
 should be able to, especially someone like you who professes to have 
 experience with C.
 

 That means it comes from the heads of the organisation.


 
 You make it sound like D was conceived and developed by a corporate 
 behemoth like Microsoft or Sun. D was conceived by one man, Walter 
 Bright, and developed by him and a few others with extensive input and 
 feedback from a dynamic, supportive and growing user community. I'm 
 sorry you cannot see that and do not want to be a part of the magic.



Well good luck with that.
Mar 11 2008