• superdan <super dan.org> Jul 10 2008
• Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> Jul 10 2008
• superdan <super dan.org> Jul 10 2008
• BCS <ao pathlink.com> Jul 10 2008
• superdan <super dan.org> Jul 10 2008
• Markus Koskimies <markus reaaliaika.net> Jul 10 2008
• Markus Koskimies <markus reaaliaika.net> Jul 10 2008
• Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> Jul 10 2008
• "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> Jul 10 2008
• Markus Koskimies <markus reaaliaika.net> Jul 10 2008

superdan <super dan.org> writes:

Jesse Phillips Wrote:

 I wish to express my gratitude towards Walter for his reluctance for 
 change. While there are many times that he does finally make changes he 
 was hardily against, "Shown the light" you might say. I believe that he 
 should not only be applauded for putting up with some of the attacks 
 toward him, but that this stone wall helps to clearly define the problem.
 
 With such strong views coming from both ends, ideas build on each other 
 to provide what could be a much better solution. We still have yet to 
 really see what has come out from the Const stuff, however without such 
 great opposition to it some serious problems my not have been resolved. 
 Many are still unsure of this new direction and there is go reason to be.
 
 I do not wish to say that Walter is alway correct in his standings, only 
 that it provides a very good buffer to stupid changes that would result 
 in later removal and rabid feature growth that does not need to be there. 
 And I believe even those that become frustrated trying to get a change 
 across no matter how trivial it seems do agree on the benefits from 
 having such a barrier.


amen brother. but somehow no matter what walter does, some people still keep on
optimizing for their benefit and never think of not adding to walter's already
full plate. walter cranks one release a month. every fucking month there's new
stuff. and his reward? he must release twice a month! why? because we don't
give a fuck about walter's being busy with a fucking brazillion things already.
let him eat cake. shit. say it ain't so, walter!

Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:

superdan wrote:
 Jesse Phillips Wrote:
 
 I wish to express my gratitude towards Walter for his reluctance for 
 change. While there are many times that he does finally make changes he 
 was hardily against, "Shown the light" you might say. I believe that he 
 should not only be applauded for putting up with some of the attacks 
 toward him, but that this stone wall helps to clearly define the problem.

 With such strong views coming from both ends, ideas build on each other 
 to provide what could be a much better solution. We still have yet to 
 really see what has come out from the Const stuff, however without such 
 great opposition to it some serious problems my not have been resolved. 
 Many are still unsure of this new direction and there is go reason to be.

 I do not wish to say that Walter is alway correct in his standings, only 
 that it provides a very good buffer to stupid changes that would result 
 in later removal and rabid feature growth that does not need to be there. 
 And I believe even those that become frustrated trying to get a change 
 across no matter how trivial it seems do agree on the benefits from 
 having such a barrier.


 amen brother. but somehow no matter what walter does, some people still keep
on optimizing for their benefit and never think of not adding to walter's
already full plate. walter cranks one release a month. every fucking month
there's new stuff. and his reward? 


 he must release twice a month! why? because we don't give a fuck about
walter's being busy with a fucking brazillion things already.. let him eat
cake. shit. say it ain't so, walter!


If you're referring to my suggestion of regression-fix releases, I'd 
gladly take 1 usable release per 4 months over 4 unusable releases over 
the same 4 months.

--bb

superdan <super dan.org> writes:

Bill Baxter Wrote:

 superdan wrote:
 Jesse Phillips Wrote:
 
 I wish to express my gratitude towards Walter for his reluctance for 
 change. While there are many times that he does finally make changes he 
 was hardily against, "Shown the light" you might say. I believe that he 
 should not only be applauded for putting up with some of the attacks 
 toward him, but that this stone wall helps to clearly define the problem.

 With such strong views coming from both ends, ideas build on each other 
 to provide what could be a much better solution. We still have yet to 
 really see what has come out from the Const stuff, however without such 
 great opposition to it some serious problems my not have been resolved. 
 Many are still unsure of this new direction and there is go reason to be.

 I do not wish to say that Walter is alway correct in his standings, only 
 that it provides a very good buffer to stupid changes that would result 
 in later removal and rabid feature growth that does not need to be there. 
 And I believe even those that become frustrated trying to get a change 
 across no matter how trivial it seems do agree on the benefits from 
 having such a barrier.


 amen brother. but somehow no matter what walter does, some people still keep
on optimizing for their benefit and never think of not adding to walter's
already full plate. walter cranks one release a month. every fucking month
there's new stuff. and his reward? 


 he must release twice a month! why? because we don't give a fuck about
walter's being busy with a fucking brazillion things already.. let him eat
cake. shit. say it ain't so, walter!


 If you're referring to my suggestion of regression-fix releases, I'd 
 gladly take 1 usable release per 4 months over 4 unusable releases over 
 the same 4 months.


me too. but being realistic, that was never the case. people give more work to
walter so they don't wait one month.

BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:

Reply to superdan,

 and his reward? he must
 release twice a month! 


Not commenting on your point, but...

at one point, circa 0.130, Walter /was/ cranking out several versions a month. 
(OTOH if you count v1 and v2 he still is)

superdan <super dan.org> writes:

BCS Wrote:

 Reply to superdan,
 
 and his reward? he must
 release twice a month! 


 Not commenting on your point, but...
 
 at one point, circa 0.130, Walter /was/ cranking out several versions a month. 
 (OTOH if you count v1 and v2 he still is)


nice surprise. thought you killfiled me :)

Markus Koskimies <markus reaaliaika.net> writes:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:59:23 -0400, superdan wrote:

 Jesse Phillips Wrote:
 
 I wish to express my gratitude towards Walter for his reluctance for
 change. 




C'mon people! We are all human, with very limited capability of 
understanding about the wrold spinning around of us. We all have our good 
& bad sides. Yes, certainly I appropriate Walter just like Linus 
(Torvals), but both of them can (and are) be occasionally wrong; that 
doesn't make them not a better nor worse people. And I don't blame not 
Bright and not Torvalds being wrong or right, it is just the way the 
things go around :D

Markus Koskimies <markus reaaliaika.net> writes:

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 01:28:04 +0000, Markus Koskimies wrote:

And an addition, which is something I regularly do;

 C'mon people! We are all human, with very limited capability of
 understanding about the wrold spinning around of us. We all have our
 good & bad sides. Yes, certainly I appropriate Walter just like Linus
 (Torvals), but both of them can (and are) be occasionally wrong; that
 doesn't make them not a better nor worse people. And I don't blame not
 Bright and not Torvalds being wrong or right, it is just the way the
 things go around :D


The best we can do is to surround us with brigther(*) people we are. The 
most important thing is not having resistance; it is all about selecting 
the direction - you will never please all the people!

(*) Sounds silly in English, I know...

Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:

Markus Koskimies wrote:
 On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 01:28:04 +0000, Markus Koskimies wrote:
 
 And an addition, which is something I regularly do;
 
 C'mon people! We are all human, with very limited capability of
 understanding about the wrold spinning around of us. We all have our
 good & bad sides. Yes, certainly I appropriate Walter just like Linus
 (Torvals), but both of them can (and are) be occasionally wrong; that
 doesn't make them not a better nor worse people. And I don't blame not
 Bright and not Torvalds being wrong or right, it is just the way the
 things go around :D


 The best we can do is to surround us with brigther(*) people we are. The 
 most important thing is not having resistance; it is all about selecting 
 the direction - you will never please all the people!


And about staying focused on what's important to keep you moving in that 
direction... rather than wasting time on the net posting pointless 
comments.  Kinda like I'm posting now. :-{

 (*) Sounds silly in English, I know...


Doesn't sound silly at all.  Well, it should be "surround ourselves with 
people brighter than we are", but other than that it sounds fine.  :-)

--bb

"Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:

"Markus Koskimies" <markus reaaliaika.net> wrote in message 
news:g56i66$1h9i$22 digitalmars.com...
 On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:41:33 +0900, Bill Baxter wrote:
 (*) Sounds silly in English, I know...


 Doesn't sound silly at all.  Well, it should be "surround ourselves with
 people brighter than we are", but other than that it sounds fine.  :-)


 Walter Bright -> Brigher people -> sounds silly to me, although I'm just
 a Finnish (and C, C++, assembler) speaking guy.. :blush:


Ahh, I didn't catch the pun either :) 

Markus Koskimies <markus reaaliaika.net> writes:

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:41:33 +0900, Bill Baxter wrote:
 (*) Sounds silly in English, I know...


 Doesn't sound silly at all.  Well, it should be "surround ourselves with
 people brighter than we are", but other than that it sounds fine.  :-)


Walter Bright -> Brigher people -> sounds silly to me, although I'm just 
a Finnish (and C, C++, assembler) speaking guy.. :blush: