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digitalmars.D - Rant on quality

reply "deadalnix" <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:
As I've mentioned several time, dmd 2.064 broke a ton of tests in 
SDC. Because of some bad closure codegen.

By now, I'm pretty sure that most of these tests won't pass when 
DMD is fixed. Show must go on, and having such a blind spot, it 
is pretty much a guaranteed result.

Moreover, master do not even compile anything (or, to be fair, it 
does compile but nothing can be linked). It seems that the new 
behavior for template symbol generation is completely failing.

The whole thing is constantly broken in various way, and I spend 
most of my dev working with known codegen bugs, or with homemade 
version of DMD. I'm willing to do that because I'm a D 
enthusiast, but realistically, most user would have quit for long 
in my position by now.

As usual, the beta are not released, and one will be throw to the 
public by surprise 2 week before the release. Granted it match a 
prediod when I have some time, it means day of crunching for a 
codegen bug (and usually a bug hides another).

Right now, I puzzled by the fact that the new template symbol 
generation is pushed forward as it is clearly not working. Not 
even remotely close, I have PAGES of linker error (it is not some 
tricky edge case that is failing here).

I though the priority was to improve quality. That mean pushing 
for feature when they are ready. Not when whoever feels like it.
Dec 15 2013
next sibling parent reply "deadalnix" <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:
Also, I'm pretty sure they are a tons of bugs that have been 
fixed since 2.064.2 has been release. Where are the revisions 
versions ?
Dec 15 2013
parent "eles" <eles eles.com> writes:
On Sunday, 15 December 2013 at 21:54:06 UTC, deadalnix wrote:

 Also, I'm pretty sure they are a tons of bugs that have been 
 fixed since 2.064.2 has been release. Where are the revisions 
 versions ?


Hi,

I hope things will get better in terms of release process under 
the command of the new build master. A bit of patience...

2.064(.2?) was a behemoth.

Try the compiler with the "-allinst" switch.
Dec 15 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> writes:
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 10:51:29PM +0100, deadalnix wrote:

 As I've mentioned several time, dmd 2.064 broke a ton of tests in
 SDC. Because of some bad closure codegen.
 
 By now, I'm pretty sure that most of these tests won't pass when DMD
 is fixed. Show must go on, and having such a blind spot, it is
 pretty much a guaranteed result.
 
 Moreover, master do not even compile anything (or, to be fair, it
 does compile but nothing can be linked). It seems that the new
 behavior for template symbol generation is completely failing.


Really? I haven't hit that problem yet, and I've been compiling a bunch
of currently-on-the-backburner D projects with git HEAD. Have you tried
-allinst?



 The whole thing is constantly broken in various way, and I spend
 most of my dev working with known codegen bugs, or with homemade
 version of DMD. I'm willing to do that because I'm a D enthusiast,
 but realistically, most user would have quit for long in my position
 by now.


It's sad, but I find that D is still developing at a fast enough rate
that I simply have to live on git HEAD. It seems the least painful way
to keep code up-to-date with the latest languages changes. Many projects
that I haven't touched for half a year or a year ago, no longer compile.
Of course, many cases are actually good cases (the compiler now catches
bad code or poorly-written code where previously it accepted them), but
there have been a few regressions.


[...]

 Right now, I puzzled by the fact that the new template symbol
 generation is pushed forward as it is clearly not working. Not even
 remotely close, I have PAGES of linker error (it is not some tricky
 edge case that is failing here).


Obviously YMMV, but I haven't hit any serious issues with that. And
that's part of the problem with the current process: those people who
are using git HEAD haven't seen problems (the issues they did see have
been fixed), but people who don't use git HEAD have code that breaks. It
seems to be that the only way out is to have people compile their code
with git HEAD (even if they're not actually using git HEAD for
production, but just to compile it and report incompatibilities,
regressions, etc.). Otherwise too many things just don't get caught
until release time, and then suddenly there's a ton of breakages that
nobody anticipated.



 I though the priority was to improve quality. That mean pushing for
 feature when they are ready. Not when whoever feels like it.


The new template symbol generation code has been in for a while now, and
the issues that were reported have been fixed AFAIK (or maybe there's
one or two that are still open in bugzilla?). In any case, I haven't had
trouble with it, so obviously it's working for *some* people. Just not
enough people, it seems. So obviously more people need to be trying out
git HEAD and reporting failures on a more consistent basis. Otherwise,
it *seems* that things are working but some important use cases are
missed.


T

-- 
We are in class, we are supposed to be learning, we have a teacher... Is it too
much that I expect him to teach me??? -- RL
Dec 15 2013
parent reply Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> writes:
16-Dec-2013 06:15, H. S. Teoh пишет:

 On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 10:51:29PM +0100, deadalnix wrote:

 I though the priority was to improve quality. That mean pushing for
 feature when they are ready. Not when whoever feels like it.


 The new template symbol generation code has been in for a while now, and
 the issues that were reported have been fixed AFAIK (or maybe there's
 one or two that are still open in bugzilla?).


It's still broken as it was during release. Most of my projects don't 
link normally. That and -inline leading to curious crashes in my code 
make me use dmd only as an interpreter.

-- 
Dmitry Olshansky
Dec 16 2013
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/16/2013 9:15 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 It's still broken as it was during release. Most of my projects don't link
 normally. That and -inline leading to curious crashes in my code make me use
dmd
 only as an interpreter.


Are there bug reports for these issues?
Dec 16 2013
parent reply Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> writes:
16-Dec-2013 23:03, Walter Bright пишет:

 On 12/16/2013 9:15 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 It's still broken as it was during release. Most of my projects don't
 link
 normally. That and -inline leading to curious crashes in my code make
 me use dmd
 only as an interpreter.


 Are there bug reports for these issues?


I've yet to reduce mine.

But these look related:
https://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9193
https://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=10829

And, of course, speaking of linking:
https://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=11114


-- 
Dmitry Olshansky
Dec 16 2013
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/16/2013 12:17 PM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 And, of course, speaking of linking:
 https://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=11114


Did you try -allinst ?
Dec 16 2013
parent reply Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> writes:
17-Dec-2013 01:40, Walter Bright пишет:

 On 12/16/2013 12:17 PM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 And, of course, speaking of linking:
 https://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=11114


 Did you try -allinst ?


Yes, then it links.

Interestingly enough I only need -allinst  with
-inline -noboundscheck
but then it segfaults.

-- 
Dmitry Olshansky
Dec 17 2013
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/17/2013 9:39 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

 Interestingly enough I only need -allinst  with
 -inline -noboundscheck
 but then it segfaults.


Need a bugzilla issue with a reproducible test case.
Dec 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/15/2013 1:51 PM, deadalnix wrote:

 I though the priority was to improve quality. That mean pushing for feature
when
 they are ready. Not when whoever feels like it.


What are the bugzilla issue numbers for these?
Dec 16 2013
prev sibling parent "deadalnix" <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:
I want to thank the DMD team as the different problem I face are 
solved in master.

Still kind of sad that I end up once again to dev in master, but 
that's good. I was able to fix the regressions that introduced in 
my code while part of the test suite was not working. Hopefully 
nothing horrible happened.

When do we plan to have these minor release with bug fixes ? I'd 
be willign to test them.
Jan 12 2014