• Joakim (27/27) May 07 2016 I've gone through about seven sessions in the archived livestream
• Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d (28/40) May 08 2016 I probably wouldn't use the term "hack", instead I'd use an analogy
• Stefan Koch (10/52) May 08 2016 Seconded.

Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:

I've gone through about seven sessions in the archived livestream 
videos and here are some quotes that stood out for me.  Share 
your memorable quotes, for those deciding what to watch.

"Normally, I'd have somebody in the company say, 'OK, what can I 
do in D that I can't do in C++?'

Every time, I'd tell them, 'You can save time.'

That's the big thing with it, and a lot of the code you can just 
set up and it just works behind the scenes and requires no 
programmer maintenance _at all_ and no programmer boilerplate 
code is just insane compared to C++."
Ethan Watson at 1:04:30 mark in 
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/86359657

"CTFE is really a hack.  You can see that it's a hack, it's 
implemented as a hack.  It is the most useful hack that I've ever 
seen, and it is definitely a hacker's tool to do stuff that are 
like magic.  But to be fast, it would need to be heavily 
redesigned, reimplemented, possibly executed in multiple threads, 
because it is used for stuff that we could never have envisioned 
when it was invented.

Like, it was more like this accidental thing, 'Yeah, you have 
this mixin and you can do stuff with strings' and this feature, 
CTFE, just turned out to be so useful and so heavily used, which 
was probably never anticipated.  So what should be made better 
about CTFE is _all of it_.  We need to reimplement it properly 
and then it will be really great."
Stefan Koch at 2:13:35 mark in 
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/86364066

Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

On 8 May 2016 at 04:25, Joakim via Digitalmars-d
<digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:
 "CTFE is really a hack.  You can see that it's a hack, it's implemented as a
 hack.  It is the most useful hack that I've ever seen, and it is definitely
 a hacker's tool to do stuff that are like magic.  But to be fast, it would
 need to be heavily redesigned, reimplemented, possibly executed in multiple
 threads, because it is used for stuff that we could never have envisioned
 when it was invented.

 Like, it was more like this accidental thing, 'Yeah, you have this mixin and
 you can do stuff with strings' and this feature, CTFE, just turned out to be
 so useful and so heavily used, which was probably never anticipated.  So
 what should be made better about CTFE is _all of it_.  We need to
 reimplement it properly and then it will be really great."
 Stefan Koch at 2:13:35 mark in http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/86364066

I probably wouldn't use the term "hack", instead I'd use an analogy
along the lines of:

CTFE is a bit like a Morris Minor, sold everywhere initially,
comfortable to ride, and reliable so long as you didn't ask for too
much from it, and weren't on a deadline to get from A to B.
However after some time, people started wanting to use it for driving
off-road. So then after some talks, it was decided that we'd replace
the wheels with those of a tractor, and everyone rejoiced that we can
now go directly up a mountain, rather than skirting down the edges.
But those happy days were short-lived, and suddenly everyone not only
wanted to go off-road, they also wanted the ability to drive around in
the river and oceans too.  Again some talks ensued and it was decided
that a marine propulsor engine would replace the  be added at the
front, however due to size dimensions it ended up sticking awkwardly
out of the bonnet.
And so once again, everyone rejoiced at the new frontier of being able
to get around, but as time wore on and people settled down, suddenly
there were those who had a family, and were unhappy that there was no
room to fit all members in.  Now at this point, it was too late to
replace the entire body with one that was ergonomically friendly to
accommodate more members, but after some trials, the designers settled
on bolting four seats to the roof.

I could go on about how we gave this Morris Minor wings allowing
people to also fly in it, but I think you should already be getting a
clear picture of where this going.  :-)

http://i.imgur.com/BAiJKUS.png

Stefan Koch <uplink.coder googlemail.com> writes:

On Sunday, 8 May 2016 at 09:01:07 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
 I probably wouldn't use the term "hack", instead I'd use an 
 analogy along the lines of:

 CTFE is a bit like a Morris Minor, sold everywhere initially,
 comfortable to ride, and reliable so long as you didn't ask for 
 too
 much from it, and weren't on a deadline to get from A to B.
 However after some time, people started wanting to use it for 
 driving
 off-road. So then after some talks, it was decided that we'd 
 replace
 the wheels with those of a tractor, and everyone rejoiced that 
 we can
 now go directly up a mountain, rather than skirting down the 
 edges.
 But those happy days were short-lived, and suddenly everyone 
 not only
 wanted to go off-road, they also wanted the ability to drive 
 around in
 the river and oceans too.  Again some talks ensued and it was 
 decided
 that a marine propulsor engine would replace the  be added at 
 the
 front, however due to size dimensions it ended up sticking 
 awkwardly
 out of the bonnet.
 And so once again, everyone rejoiced at the new frontier of 
 being able
 to get around, but as time wore on and people settled down, 
 suddenly
 there were those who had a family, and were unhappy that there 
 was no
 room to fit all members in.  Now at this point, it was too late 
 to
 replace the entire body with one that was ergonomically 
 friendly to
 accommodate more members, but after some trials, the designers 
 settled
 on bolting four seats to the roof.

 I could go on about how we gave this Morris Minor wings 
 allowing people to also fly in it, but I think you should 
 already be getting a clear picture of where this going.  :-)

 http://i.imgur.com/BAiJKUS.png

Seconded.
As I said, the problem is not CTFE itself, the "problem" is that 
it enables a completely new paradigm. When this new way of 
meta-programming is used alot the current implementation cannot 
hold up.

I am committed to transform CTFE from a neat toy, into a polished 
product.
If anyone thinks the same please, contact me, because then we can 
avoid duplicated work and frustration.