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digitalmars.D - Pyd thread

reply "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
An unusually positive thread on D:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/12w2i4/have_you_used_python_with_d/

Bye,
bearophile
Nov 09 2012
parent reply Ellery Newcomer <ellery-newcomer utulsa.edu> writes:
On 11/09/2012 07:03 AM, bearophile wrote:

 An unusually positive thread on D:

 http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/12w2i4/have_you_used_python_with_d/

 Bye,
 bearophile


He's been writing python extensions in C; he *should* be happy :)

btw, what's the status on druntime support for shared libraries? Pyd is 
kind of walking on thin ice until this is straightened out.
Nov 09 2012
next sibling parent reply "Rob T" <rob ucora.com> writes:
On Saturday, 10 November 2012 at 00:31:53 UTC, Ellery Newcomer 
wrote:

 On 11/09/2012 07:03 AM, bearophile wrote:

 An unusually positive thread on D:

 http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/12w2i4/have_you_used_python_with_d/

 Bye,
 bearophile


 He's been writing python extensions in C; he *should* be happy 
 :)

 btw, what's the status on druntime support for shared 
 libraries? Pyd is kind of walking on thin ice until this is 
 straightened out.


I'm also gambling that the dll issue will be resolved in a 
reasonable amount of time, as the apps I'm building in D will 
require it. I'll need ddl's that are dynamically linked, and 
ddl's used as plugins that are dymaically loaded.

I'm currently working on Linux almost exclusively, which also has 
the same problem.

Unfortunately, I'm very new to D, so I doubt at this stage I can 
lend a hand to help solve problems like the dll issue. The best I 
can do for now is report on compiler bugs that I'm finding.

--rt
Nov 09 2012
parent "Jakob Ovrum" <jakobovrum gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 10 November 2012 at 06:22:57 UTC, Rob T wrote:

 I'm also gambling that the dll issue will be resolved in a 
 reasonable amount of time, as the apps I'm building in D will 
 require it. I'll need ddl's that are dynamically linked, and 
 ddl's used as plugins that are dymaically loaded.

 I'm currently working on Linux almost exclusively, which also 
 has the same problem.

 Unfortunately, I'm very new to D, so I doubt at this stage I 
 can lend a hand to help solve problems like the dll issue. The 
 best I can do for now is report on compiler bugs that I'm 
 finding.


Although I've only tested on Windows, I have a working DLL module 
example in LuaD [1][2]. The problems with DLLs are not as 
relevant for modules like these, and I don't imagine Python 
modules having too different needs.

[1] https://github.com/JakobOvrum/LuaD/tree/master/example/dmodule
[2] 
https://github.com/JakobOvrum/LuaD/blob/master/example/bin/module.lua
Nov 10 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Russel Winder <russel winder.org.uk> writes:
On Fri, 2012-11-09 at 16:31 -0800, Ellery Newcomer wrote:
[=E2=80=A6]

 He's been writing python extensions in C; he *should* be happy :)


It is true that most people just use Cython these days.

Or they are using NumPy, Numba, etc.


 btw, what's the status on druntime support for shared libraries? Pyd is=


=20

 kind of walking on thin ice until this is straightened out.


This and another problem is why I have hesitated mentioning D as a tool
for writing CPython extensions in my Python workshops: the extensions
are CPython specific and will not work with PyPy (or Jython but that is
a whole other set of issues).

What is guaranteed now is that the ctypes package works in CPython and
PyPy and would seem to be the right "API" for people interested in using
Python with D.  If the ctypes overhead is significant to the execution
then writing a native code extension is probably the wrong solution to
the problem?

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
Nov 09 2012
parent reply Ellery Newcomer <ellery-newcomer utulsa.edu> writes:
On 11/09/2012 11:33 PM, Russel Winder wrote:

 What is guaranteed now is that the ctypes package works in CPython and
 PyPy and would seem to be the right "API" for people interested in using
 Python with D.  If the ctypes overhead is significant to the execution
 then writing a native code extension is probably the wrong solution to
 the problem?


Never used ctypes. How difficult would it be to get python 
objects/functions to the extension side?
Nov 10 2012
parent Russel Winder <russel winder.org.uk> writes:
On Sat, 2012-11-10 at 14:08 -0800, Ellery Newcomer wrote:
[=E2=80=A6]

 Never used ctypes. How difficult would it be to get python=20
 objects/functions to the extension side?


As long as the code compiles to a shared object/dynamic link library and
presents C-linkage entry points, Python code can call the entry points
through ctypes. C++ codes just provide C-linkage entries, D codes just
provide C-linkage entries. The real issue is that it must be a shared
object or dynamic link library.=20
--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
Nov 11 2012
prev sibling parent reply Ellery Newcomer <ellery-newcomer utulsa.edu> writes:
Just tried building a shared library on linux with dmd (and calling it 
from C).

It works! Holy crap, it even runs my static constructors and unittests! 
I only had to screw with the linking process a little bit!

It doesn't work for x64, though. Gives me

/usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib64/dmd/libphobos2.a(object__c_58c.o): relocation 
R_X86_64_32 against `_D10TypeInfo_m6__initZ' can not be used when making 
a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
/usr/lib64/dmd/libphobos2.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
--- errorlevel 1

Though why it doesn't do this for x32 is beyond me. Those object files 
don't appear to be -fPIC either.
Nov 14 2012
parent "Maxim Fomin" <maxim maxim-fomin.ru> writes:
On Thursday, 15 November 2012 at 02:51:08 UTC, Ellery Newcomer 
wrote:

 Just tried building a shared library on linux with dmd (and 
 calling it from C).

 It works! Holy crap, it even runs my static constructors and 
 unittests! I only had to screw with the linking process a 
 little bit!

 It doesn't work for x64, though. Gives me

 /usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib64/dmd/libphobos2.a(object__c_58c.o): 
 relocation R_X86_64_32 against `_D10TypeInfo_m6__initZ' can not 
 be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
 /usr/lib64/dmd/libphobos2.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
 --- errorlevel 1

 Though why it doesn't do this for x32 is beyond me. Those 
 object files don't appear to be -fPIC either.


You can dynamically link to D shared libraries on linux 
(http://forum.dlang.org/thread/k3vfm9$1tq$1 digitalmars.com?page=2). 
The message you receive actually means that you cannot make a 
shared library from current version of Phobos and Druntime due to 
how they are compiled. However I saw several people working on 
making druntime shared. The solution is not to put druntime in 
.so file.

I tried to investigate which features do not work with dynamic 
linking (not loading) and found certainly one - it is related to 
not invoking scope(XXX) statements at some circumstances.
Nov 15 2012