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digitalmars.D - Proposal: digitalmars.D.tango newsgroup

reply Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org> writes:
I'm not sure whether I proposed this before, but I do see a necessity
for this. Even though there are forums and the ticketing system on
dsource, the main discussions are going on on IRC, which is a fairly
frail medium of communication. 

Given the latest discussions, rants and whatnot, a dedicated forum for
Tango users and contributors within the context of D's official
website, as well as its main medium of discussion - evidently the
newsgroups -, would provide a possibility of better communication
between rest-of-the-world and Tango (as in: the entirety of users,
contributors, critics, etc.).

I would appreciate any comments regarding a new forum - please don't
use this thread to reply to, or cite, previous postings about Tango's
communication. 

Thank you in advance.

Kind regards,
Alex

-- 
Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org>
Nov 19 2007
next sibling parent reply Alix Pexton <_a_l_i_x_._p_e_x_t_o_n_ _g_m_a_i_l_._c_o_m_> writes:
Alexander Panek wrote:

 I'm not sure whether I proposed this before, but I do see a necessity
 for this. Even though there are forums and the ticketing system on
 dsource, the main discussions are going on on IRC, which is a fairly
 frail medium of communication. 
 
 Given the latest discussions, rants and whatnot, a dedicated forum for
 Tango users and contributors within the context of D's official
 website, as well as its main medium of discussion - evidently the
 newsgroups -, would provide a possibility of better communication
 between rest-of-the-world and Tango (as in: the entirety of users,
 contributors, critics, etc.).
 
 I would appreciate any comments regarding a new forum - please don't
 use this thread to reply to, or cite, previous postings about Tango's
 communication. 
 
 Thank you in advance.
 
 Kind regards,
 Alex
 


I don't think a new NG is the answer, there is already plenty of space for
contacting the Tango team and adding another specifically for them will not
necessarily change the tone of the debate.

After communicating with Tango devs on IRC, one of thier preffered formats, it
seems to me that the NG format is for some of them the problem.

A...
Nov 19 2007
parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Alix,


 Alexander Panek wrote:
 

 I'm not sure whether I proposed this before, but I do see a necessity
 for this. Even though there are forums and the ticketing system on
 dsource, the main discussions are going on on IRC, which is a fairly
 frail medium of communication.
 
 Given the latest discussions, rants and whatnot, a dedicated forum
 for Tango users and contributors within the context of D's official
 website, as well as its main medium of discussion - evidently the
 newsgroups -, would provide a possibility of better communication
 between rest-of-the-world and Tango (as in: the entirety of users,
 contributors, critics, etc.).
 
 I would appreciate any comments regarding a new forum - please don't
 use this thread to reply to, or cite, previous postings about Tango's
 communication.
 
 Thank you in advance.
 
 Kind regards,
 Alex


 I don't think a new NG is the answer, there is already plenty of space
 for contacting the Tango team and adding another specifically for them
 will not necessarily change the tone of the debate.
 
 After communicating with Tango devs on IRC, one of thier preffered
 formats, it seems to me that the NG format is for some of them the
 problem.
 
 A...
 


I use IRC when the NG is down
I use forum when I have no other choice (e.i. almost never)

NG's have a distinct advantage of archiving the discussion in a structured 
way. They also are handy in that they allow you to read stuff offline.

The only advantage I see to IRC is that it is real time, and to forums is 
that all you need is a browser. Nether of these holds much weight with me 
and I rather suspect I'm not alone.
Nov 19 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jason House <jason.james.house gmail.com> writes:
Alexander Panek Wrote:


 I'm not sure whether I proposed this before, but I do see a necessity
 for this. Even though there are forums and the ticketing system on
 dsource, the main discussions are going on on IRC, which is a fairly
 frail medium of communication. 



I've been thinking for some time that a tango-specific mailing list would be
nice.  Not because I want to censor tango discussion, but because it's big
enough to generate a significant amount of traffic.

It also helps users feel ok about posting to a mailing list instead of using
dsource's forums (which I don't like).
Nov 19 2007
parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <kb3ctd2 yahoo.com> writes:
"Jason House" <jason.james.house gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:fhsci5$2dg7$1 digitalmars.com...

 Alexander Panek Wrote:


 I'm not sure whether I proposed this before, but I do see a necessity
 for this. Even though there are forums and the ticketing system on
 dsource, the main discussions are going on on IRC, which is a fairly
 frail medium of communication.



 I've been thinking for some time that a tango-specific mailing list would 
 be nice.  Not because I want to censor tango discussion, but because it's 
 big enough to generate a significant amount of traffic.

 It also helps users feel ok about posting to a mailing list instead of 
 using dsource's forums (which I don't like).


Isn't that weird!  Maybe it's a generation gap thing.  Having been on 
phpBB-style web forums since I started programming, I've always felt far 
more comfortable on them than on mailing lists or newsgroups.  There's 
something far more impersonal and hostile-feeling about the latter that I 
just can't get over.  The archiving aspect of newsgroups is also fairly 
minor to me; most, if not all, web forums have much better searches than 
most newsreaders provide, and most also have plaintext or minimal-HTML 
archiving functionality built in.
Nov 19 2007
parent reply Jason House <jason.james.house gmail.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote: 

 Isn't that weird!  Maybe it's a generation gap thing.  Having been on
 phpBB-style web forums since I started programming, I've always felt far
 more comfortable on them than on mailing lists or newsgroups.  There's
 something far more impersonal and hostile-feeling about the latter that I
 just can't get over.  The archiving aspect of newsgroups is also fairly
 minor to me; most, if not all, web forums have much better searches than
 most newsreaders provide, and most also have plaintext or minimal-HTML
 archiving functionality built in.


Don't make me feel old ;)

I like how newsgroups readers give me a choice of interface.  Forums seem
like ad-hoc creations that only give the options the creator decided on. 
I've never seen a way to monitor multiple forums (on different sites) in a
unified way.  Recent forum irks would include a lack of any notification
when someon responds to a topic I created in a tango forum.

Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will respond with all the ways to remove my
issues :)
Nov 19 2007
next sibling parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <kb3ctd2 yahoo.com> writes:
"Jason House" <jason.james.house gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:fhtk1n$17s8$1 digitalmars.com...

 Don't make me feel old ;)

 I like how newsgroups readers give me a choice of interface.  Forums seem
 like ad-hoc creations that only give the options the creator decided on.
 I've never seen a way to monitor multiple forums (on different sites) in a
 unified way.  Recent forum irks would include a lack of any notification
 when someon responds to a topic I created in a tango forum.

 Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will respond with all the ways to remove 
 my
 issues :)


A lot of newer web forums have RSS feed support.  That's pretty nice.

As for the DSource phpBB forums, they seem to have most of the options 
turned off, but you can still have it send an email when you get replies. 
As for the Tango forums, I'm not sure but I _believe_ that they will notify 
you of replies through your Trac login info; but if it doesn't, they're 
developed by one of the Tango developers and you can probably request that.
Nov 19 2007
parent Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:


 "Jason House" <jason.james.house gmail.com> wrote in message
 news:fhtk1n$17s8$1 digitalmars.com...

 Don't make me feel old ;)

 I like how newsgroups readers give me a choice of interface.  Forums seem
 like ad-hoc creations that only give the options the creator decided on.
 I've never seen a way to monitor multiple forums (on different sites) in
 a
 unified way.  Recent forum irks would include a lack of any notification
 when someon responds to a topic I created in a tango forum.

 Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will respond with all the ways to remove
 my
 issues :)


 
 A lot of newer web forums have RSS feed support.  That's pretty nice.
 
 As for the DSource phpBB forums, they seem to have most of the options
 turned off, but you can still have it send an email when you get replies.
 As for the Tango forums, I'm not sure but I _believe_ that they will
 notify you of replies through your Trac login info; but if it doesn't,
 they're developed by one of the Tango developers and you can probably
 request that.


It is planned (and possibly implemented), but not yet in production on the
server.

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling parent "Chris Miller" <chris dprogramming.com> writes:
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:24:44 -0500, Jason House  
<jason.james.house gmail.com> wrote:


 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 Isn't that weird!  Maybe it's a generation gap thing.  Having been on
 phpBB-style web forums since I started programming, I've always felt far
 more comfortable on them than on mailing lists or newsgroups.  There's
 something far more impersonal and hostile-feeling about the latter that  
 I
 just can't get over.  The archiving aspect of newsgroups is also fairly
 minor to me; most, if not all, web forums have much better searches than
 most newsreaders provide, and most also have plaintext or minimal-HTML
 archiving functionality built in.


 Don't make me feel old ;)

 I like how newsgroups readers give me a choice of interface.  Forums seem
 like ad-hoc creations that only give the options the creator decided on.
 I've never seen a way to monitor multiple forums (on different sites) in  
 a
 unified way.  Recent forum irks would include a lack of any notification
 when someon responds to a topic I created in a tango forum.

 Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will respond with all the ways to  
 remove my
 issues :)


I made a RSS feed to notify me of dsource activity:  
http://www.dprogramming.com/dnews/dsource/
It's not that great but it works for me.
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "David Wilson" <dw botanicus.net> writes:
On 11/19/07, Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org> wrote:

 I'm not sure whether I proposed this before, but I do see a necessity
 for this. Even though there are forums and the ticketing system on
 dsource, the main discussions are going on on IRC, which is a fairly
 frail medium of communication.



 Given the latest discussions, rants and whatnot, a dedicated forum for
 Tango users and contributors within the context of D's official
 website, as well as its main medium of discussion - evidently the
 newsgroups -, would provide a possibility of better communication
 between rest-of-the-world and Tango (as in: the entirety of users,
 contributors, critics, etc.).



Something similar was recently discussed in Linux land, where some
kernel hackers were complaining because the existence of multiple
lists divides peoples' attention and ultimately results in patches
getting dropped or important conversations being missed.

 - http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/258550/6950d776964265cb/
   (search for "the use of mailing lists")

Another example from Linux land was the fact that Con Kolivas' recent
scheduler patch was ultimately dropped, with some in the kernel camp
claiming this was partially due to development taking place on a
separate list, and that user reports of good performance from the
patch not being seen (they were going to the separate list).

 - http://apcmag.com/6735/interview_con_kolivas

Creating another list may also foster more of an "us and them"
mentality, with the "us" being Tango, and "them" being the D
community, which for our size, would really be a shameful thing.

I'm personally of the "search, don't sort" mentality and would see
further newsgroups/lists as more administrative hassle, as I suspect
most people who'd subscribe to the new list would also (Tango lovers
are also D lovers, but the converse isn't true).

Certainly, without filtering I would have unsubscribed from here
several weeks ago. :)

In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't involve a
web interface. Mail/news only please. :D


David.


 Thank you in advance.

 Kind regards,
 Alex

 --
 Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org>
Nov 19 2007
parent Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:
David Wilson wrote:

 Creating another list may also foster more of an "us and them"
 mentality, with the "us" being Tango, and "them" being the D
 community, which for our size, would really be a shameful thing.


I think this is a VERY valid point. Right now, the active D newsgroups 
(this one, announce, and learn) are frequented by all the members of the 
D community. I think any fragmentation is a bad thing at this point 
(there's already enough animosity between the Tango devotees and the 
Tango naysayers).
Nov 19 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Bruce Adams <tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk> writes:
David Wilson Wrote:


 
 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't involve a
 web interface. Mail/news only please. :D
 


Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect but it is very
convenient (posting from it now).

Regards,

Bruce.
Nov 20 2007
parent reply BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Bruce,


 David Wilson Wrote:
 

 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't involve
 a web interface. Mail/news only please. :D
 


 Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect but
 it is very convenient (posting from it now).
 
 Regards,
 
 Bruce.
 


1) your post (and most post from the web interface) break threading
2) with the NG you aren't forced to use that interface (with forums you are)

I don't so much care if there is a web interface, I just don't want to use it.
Nov 20 2007
next sibling parent reply Bruce Adams <tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk> writes:
BCS Wrote:


 Reply to Bruce,
 

 David Wilson Wrote:
 

 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't involve
 a web interface. Mail/news only please. :D
 


 Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect but
 it is very convenient (posting from it now).
 
 Regards,
 
 Bruce.
 


 
 1) your post (and most post from the web interface) break threading
 2) with the NG you aren't forced to use that interface (with forums you are)
 
 I don't so much care if there is a web interface, I just don't want to use it.
 


I've noticed a problem with the threading of some posts (though not my own
strangely) but nothing I could put my finger on. It sounds like a bug in the
web interface. When a bug is found it should be fixed rather than the feature
being removed, don't you think?
Has it been logged?

Regards,

Bruce.
Nov 20 2007
parent reply jcc7 <technocrat7 gmail.com> writes:
== Quote from Bruce Adams (tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk)'s article

 BCS Wrote:

 Reply to Bruce,


 David Wilson Wrote:


 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't
 involve a web interface. Mail/news only please. :D


 Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect
 but it is very convenient (posting from it now).

 Regards,

 Bruce.


 1) your post (and most post from the web interface) break
 threading
 2) with the NG you aren't forced to use that interface (with
 forums you are)

 I don't so much care if there is a web interface, I just don't
 want to use it.


 I've noticed a problem with the threading of some posts (though not
 my own strangely) but nothing I could put my finger on. It sounds
 like a bug in the web interface.


Oskar Linde has identified some possible bugs in the Web-News web interface:
http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D&article_id=62059


 When a bug is found it should be  fixed rather than the feature
 being removed, don't you think?


I agree.



 Has it been logged?


Other that Oskar's postings in the D newsgroups, I don't know. From looking at
the
web-news sourceforge page, I get the impression that it's not still in active
development (note the release dates below), but I'd love to be wrong.

From http://web-news.sourceforge.net/:
* Release Web-News 1.6.3 (29-3-2006).
* Release Web-News 1.6.2 (3-10-2004).
* Release Web-News 1.6.0 (20-9-2004).
* Release Web-News 1.5.7 (14-8-2004).
* Release Web-News 1.5.6 (14-8-2004).
* Release Web-News 1.5.5 (12-8-2004).
* Release Web-News 1.5.4 (8-8-2004).

It is open source, though, so in theory we could fix it on our own (if we want
to
wade through the PHP).
Nov 20 2007
parent reply Bruce Adams <tortoise_74 yahoo.co.uk> writes:
jcc7 Wrote:


 == Quote from Bruce Adams (tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk)'s article

 BCS Wrote:

 Reply to Bruce,


 David Wilson Wrote:


 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't
 involve a web interface. Mail/news only please. :D


 Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect
 but it is very convenient (posting from it now).

 Regards,

 Bruce.


 1) your post (and most post from the web interface) break
 threading
 2) with the NG you aren't forced to use that interface (with
 forums you are)

 I don't so much care if there is a web interface, I just don't
 want to use it.


 I've noticed a problem with the threading of some posts (though not
 my own strangely) but nothing I could put my finger on. It sounds
 like a bug in the web interface.


 
 Oskar Linde has identified some possible bugs in the Web-News web interface:
 http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D&article_id=62059
 

 When a bug is found it should be  fixed rather than the feature
 being removed, don't you think?


 
 I agree.
 
 

 Has it been logged?


 
 Other that Oskar's postings in the D newsgroups, I don't know. From looking at
the
 web-news sourceforge page, I get the impression that it's not still in active
 development (note the release dates below), but I'd love to be wrong.
 
 From http://web-news.sourceforge.net/:
 * Release Web-News 1.6.3 (29-3-2006).
 * Release Web-News 1.6.2 (3-10-2004).
 * Release Web-News 1.6.0 (20-9-2004).
 * Release Web-News 1.5.7 (14-8-2004).
 * Release Web-News 1.5.6 (14-8-2004).
 * Release Web-News 1.5.5 (12-8-2004).
 * Release Web-News 1.5.4 (8-8-2004).
 
 It is open source, though, so in theory we could fix it on our own (if we want
to
 wade through the PHP).


Incidentally one reason I use webnews is because when I try to view the nntp
newsfeeds in opera I just get

"Please read the article in 

http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D&article_id=62115
"

which makes it pretty useless.
Nov 20 2007
next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Bruce,


 Incidentally one reason I use webnews is because when I try to view
 the nntp newsfeeds in opera I just get
 
 "Please read the article in
 
 http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmar
 s.D&article_id=62115 "
 
 which makes it pretty useless.
 


What OS are you on? I find JetBrain's OmeaReader to be darn good but I think 
it is windows only.
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling parent "Bruce Adams" <tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk> writes:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:26:41 -0000, Bruce Adams <tortoise_74 yahoo.co.uk=

  =


wrote:


 jcc7 Wrote:


 =3D=3D Quote from Bruce Adams (tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk)'s article

 BCS Wrote:

 Reply to Bruce,


 David Wilson Wrote:


 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't
 involve a web interface. Mail/news only please. :D


 Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfec=










t

 but it is very convenient (posting from it now).

 Regards,

 Bruce.


 1) your post (and most post from the web interface) break
 threading
 2) with the NG you aren't forced to use that interface (with
 forums you are)

 I don't so much care if there is a web interface, I just don't
 want to use it.


 I've noticed a problem with the threading of some posts (though not=







 my own strangely) but nothing I could put my finger on. It sounds
 like a bug in the web interface.


 Oskar Linde has identified some possible bugs in the Web-News web  =





 interface:
 http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=3Ddigital=




mars.D&article_id=3D62059

 When a bug is found it should be  fixed rather than the feature
 being removed, don't you think?


 I agree.



 Has it been logged?


 Other that Oskar's postings in the D newsgroups, I don't know. From  =





 looking at the
 web-news sourceforge page, I get the impression that it's not still i=




n  =


 active
 development (note the release dates below), but I'd love to be wrong.=





 From http://web-news.sourceforge.net/:
 * Release Web-News 1.6.3 (29-3-2006).
 * Release Web-News 1.6.2 (3-10-2004).
 * Release Web-News 1.6.0 (20-9-2004).
 * Release Web-News 1.5.7 (14-8-2004).
 * Release Web-News 1.5.6 (14-8-2004).
 * Release Web-News 1.5.5 (12-8-2004).
 * Release Web-News 1.5.4 (8-8-2004).

 It is open source, though, so in theory we could fix it on our own (i=




f  =


 we want to
 wade through the PHP).


 Incidentally one reason I use webnews is because when I try to view th=


e  =


 nntp newsfeeds in opera I just get

 "Please read the article in

 http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=3Ddigitalm=


ars.D&article_id=3D62115

 "

 which makes it pretty useless.


Right. That seems to be a bug with the newsfeed interface not the nntp o=
ne  =

which works just fine.
Unless this isn't showing up properly.

-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling parent reply Robert DaSilva <sp.unit.262+digitalmars gmail.com> writes:
BCS wrote:

 Reply to Bruce,
 

 David Wilson Wrote:


 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't involve
 a web interface. Mail/news only please. :D


 Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect but
 it is very convenient (posting from it now).

 Regards,

 Bruce.


 
 1) your post (and most post from the web interface) break threading
 2) with the NG you aren't forced to use that interface (with forums you
 are)
 
 I don't so much care if there is a web interface, I just don't want to
 use it.
 
 


1. that's a bug in the web interface of this ng (meaning
news.digitalmars.com) *only* (there may be other, but they aren't
related to this ng).
2. No always true, mostly true, but not always true. And forums
generally have a great web interfaces and email notifications.

You seam to think all web interfaces are horrible, have you ever used a
forum that used phpBB? They have great interface and they have a
consistency between them that make it even better.
Nov 20 2007
parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Robert,


 BCS wrote:
 

 Reply to Bruce,
 

 David Wilson Wrote:
 

 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't
 involve a web interface. Mail/news only please. :D
 


 Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect but
 it is very convenient (posting from it now).
 
 Regards,
 
 Bruce.
 


 1) your post (and most post from the web interface) break threading
 2) with the NG you aren't forced to use that interface (with forums
 you
 are)
 I don't so much care if there is a web interface, I just don't want
 to use it.
 


 1. that's a bug in the web interface of this ng (meaning
 news.digitalmars.com) *only* (there may be other, but they aren't
 related to this ng).


granted


 2. No always true, mostly true, but not always true. And forums
 generally have a great web interfaces and email notifications.
 You seam to think all web interfaces are horrible, have you ever used
 a forum that used phpBB?


I don't pay much attention to the name of the software but I /think/ I have.

However, there are a few things inherently to web interface that I find
annoying.

1) If I'm' not on line, I can't even look at anything.
2) they are a web page. anything I want to do requires that the server do 
it and pass back the results. this includes resorting the posts by
date/name/whatever.
3) they don't give me everything they have (and if they did it would take 
to long). If I want older posts I click for the next page. With an NG reader, 
I scroll down.

I don't think any of these can be solved without putting software on my machine 
and once you do that, what does a forum have over an NG?


 They have great interface and they have a
 consistency between them that make it even better.


I don't care about the interface much at all. Give me; an automatic visual 
cue when a post arrives, a sortable list of posts (with sort by
thread/date/poster), 
a text editor as good as notepad and spell check. That's and a decent setup 
dialog and I'm happy with the UI.
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling parent reply Bruce Adams <tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk> writes:
David Wilson Wrote:


 
 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't involve a
 web interface. Mail/news only please. :D
 


Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect but it is very
convenient (posting from it now).

Regards,

Bruce.
Nov 20 2007
next sibling parent Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Bruce Adams wrote:

 David Wilson Wrote:
 

 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't involve a
 web interface. Mail/news only please. :D


 Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect but it is
very convenient (posting from it now).
 
 Regards,
 
 Bruce.


Was the double-posting intentional, there? ;-)

--bb
Nov 20 2007
prev sibling parent reply Oskar Linde <oskar.lindeREM OVEgmail.com> writes:
Bruce Adams wrote:

 David Wilson Wrote:
 

 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't involve a
 web interface. Mail/news only please. :D


 Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect but it is
very convenient (posting from it now).



then though.

Posting with the web interface results in posts that violates at least
five de facto rules documented in mail and news related RFCs:

1. (This is the most serious, as it breaks threading) Generated replies
do not contain the required "References" and "In-Reply-To" header
fields. Thunderbird seems to fall back on some heuristic. In other
readers, the threads simply break. (Ironically, even Web-News fails
to thread it's own messages...?) (RFC1036 says '[When replying, ] the
"References" line is required')

2. A space is placed after the quote character (>) even when the next
character is a quote, breaking quoting more than one level deep.
(RFC3676 states that a space before a '>' at the start of a line means
that the '>' should be treated literally as a '>' character and not as a
quoting marker. This is called "space stuffing".)

3. Messages are posted as 8-bit without any charset specification. This
is hardly a good practice and not within any standard.

4. More seriously, some message headers (From and Subject) are generated
with non-ASCII characters (no charset or mime compliant encoding is
used) (Violates RFC(2)822 and extensions)

5. Long lines are not broken at 78 characters or less. (Violates RFC3676
and recommended practice)

-- 
Oskar
Nov 20 2007
parent jcc7 <technocrat7 gmail.com> writes:
== Quote from Oskar Linde (oskar.lindeREM OVEgmail.com)'s article

 Bruce Adams wrote:

 David Wilson Wrote:


 In any case I'm happy as long as whatever you choose doesn't
 involve a web interface. Mail/news only please. :D


 Sorry what's wrong with the web interface? It may not be perfect
 but it is very convenient (posting from it now).



 since then though.


By the way, here's the link to the original message:
http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D&article_id=47211

My response to the original message:
http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D&article_id=47224

I mentioned that both Web-News and pnews (an web interface, but it's still
available) are open source (and both are written in PHP), so we might be able to
fix some or all of these problems. (But I guess no one has shown interest in
doing
that yet. I know I have other things I'd rather do.)

By the way, I've been using pnews to make my replies from the web since it
doesn't
seem to "break threads" in the same way that Web-News does.

There are other disadvantages to the web interfaces, too:
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?NewsDmD#DisadvantagestotheWebInterface
but newsgroup readers aren't always available on a particular computer.
Nov 20 2007