digitalmars.D - Programming language for GIMP fork's rewrite
- Mike James (5/10) Jul 02 2020 Maybe they need to read...
- Mathias LANG (5/17) Jul 02 2020 Especially since they chose D, I am surprised with the idea of a
- Guillaume Piolat (16/19) Jul 02 2020 Disagree.
- Steven Schveighoffer (7/29) Jul 02 2020 They appear not to have said exactly what the rewrite will entail - and
- aberba (6/37) Jul 02 2020 Now GTK+ has usability issues beyond the usual UI stuff. Its a C
- JN (2/3) Jul 02 2020 GTK stands for Gimp ToolKit
- Steven Schveighoffer (7/12) Jul 02 2020 It used to. It was invented as a replacement for Motif for GIMP, as
- Nick Treleaven (2/6) Jul 04 2020 Doesn't GtkD solve them?
- aberba (5/17) Jul 02 2020 Isn't that a one sided view? How about the many rewrites that
- Liu (9/21) Jul 02 2020 I think rewrites can be valid if you switch from a buggy/verbose
- claptrap (8/18) Jul 02 2020 Yes if you can do the rewrite a bit at a time and make the code
- Andrei Alexandrescu (6/19) Jul 02 2020 Interesting piece. However, I think there are a few example where
- Andrei Alexandrescu (2/23) Jul 02 2020 s/eggs/egcs/
- WebFreak001 (6/18) Jul 03 2020 I think a full rewrite isn't an issue here, especially the points
- Dukc (5/10) Jul 03 2020 According to their main page [1] they are going to "permissively"
https://forum.dlang.org/post/hinhcixficvfjwidaknc forum.dlang.org On Sunday, 1 September 2019 at 18:57:07 UTC, Kamran wrote:Hello everyone, People who forked GIMP, a popular open source image editor are discussing on which language to choose for their rewrite at [1] and they are considering D. Maybe some of you can help them out. [1] https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/70Maybe they need to read... https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ -=mike=-
Jul 02 2020
On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 09:36:28 UTC, Mike James wrote:https://forum.dlang.org/post/hinhcixficvfjwidaknc forum.dlang.org On Sunday, 1 September 2019 at 18:57:07 UTC, Kamran wrote:Especially since they chose D, I am surprised with the idea of a full rewrite. Gradual transition from a C/C++ code-base is an area where D shines like no other language.Hello everyone, People who forked GIMP, a popular open source image editor are discussing on which language to choose for their rewrite at [1] and they are considering D. Maybe some of you can help them out. [1] https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/70Maybe they need to read... https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ -=mike=-
Jul 02 2020
Guillaume Piolat <first.name gmail.com> On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 11:07:39 UTC, Mathias LANG wrote:On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 09:36:28 UTC, Mike James wrote: Gradual transition from a C/C++ code-base is an area where D shines like no other language.Disagree. I use GIMP a lot and while it's dependable and fast and featureful... it's pretty clear it has a considerable UX problem. Everything takes a few precise clicks, and even finding the right window is a bit hard. I spent a lot of time changing the brush size and the size isn't log, just a slider from 1 to <unusable> pixels. It's not _bad_, it's just getting increasingly important to be agreeable and quick to learn. Unfortunately, UX in modern consumer programs is getting so important everything has to be designed around it, so I think a rewrite would yield superior usability. Programs that are rich in functionality but hard to learn will be replaced with programs where workflow was considered with more weight ; even when the replacement has less features.
Jul 02 2020
On 7/2/20 7:07 AM, Mathias LANG wrote:On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 09:36:28 UTC, Mike James wrote:They appear not to have said exactly what the rewrite will entail - and a lot of the discussion on that thread is how D allows usage of C libraries. I'm a bit surprised at the UI rewrite, as D has good GTK support, and the focus of GIMP is not really UI. They could easily use GTK and make the UX better. -Stevehttps://forum.dlang.org/post/hinhcixficvfjwidaknc forum.dlang.org On Sunday, 1 September 2019 at 18:57:07 UTC, Kamran wrote:Especially since they chose D, I am surprised with the idea of a full rewrite. Gradual transition from a C/C++ code-base is an area where D shines like no other language.Hello everyone, People who forked GIMP, a popular open source image editor are discussing on which language to choose for their rewrite at [1] and they are considering D. Maybe some of you can help them out. [1] https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/70Maybe they need to read... https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ -=mike=-
Jul 02 2020
On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 14:38:11 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:On 7/2/20 7:07 AM, Mathias LANG wrote:Now GTK+ has usability issues beyond the usual UI stuff. Its a C problem. That could be a factor. I believe Gimp is the most complex application using Gtk... large C codebase is a message without those high-level language features.On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 09:36:28 UTC, Mike James wrote:They appear not to have said exactly what the rewrite will entail - and a lot of the discussion on that thread is how D allows usage of C libraries. I'm a bit surprised at the UI rewrite, as D has good GTK support, and the focus of GIMP is not really UI. They could easily use GTK and make the UX better. -Stevehttps://forum.dlang.org/post/hinhcixficvfjwidaknc forum.dlang.org On Sunday, 1 September 2019 at 18:57:07 UTC, Kamran wrote:Especially since they chose D, I am surprised with the idea of a full rewrite. Gradual transition from a C/C++ code-base is an area where D shines like no other language.Hello everyone, People who forked GIMP, a popular open source image editor are discussing on which language to choose for their rewrite at [1] and they are considering D. Maybe some of you can help them out. [1] https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/70Maybe they need to read... https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ -=mike=-
Jul 02 2020
On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 15:15:47 UTC, aberba wrote:I believe Gimp is the most complex application using Gtk...GTK stands for Gimp ToolKit
Jul 02 2020
On 7/2/20 12:03 PM, JN wrote:On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 15:15:47 UTC, aberba wrote:It used to. It was invented as a replacement for Motif for GIMP, as Motif was not free, and there were no open toolkits for Unix except for Xt at the time. Now it's just GTK. And I'd hazard to guess Gnome is probably the most complex application using GTK. -SteveI believe Gimp is the most complex application using Gtk...GTK stands for Gimp ToolKit
Jul 02 2020
On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 15:15:47 UTC, aberba wrote:Now GTK+ has usability issues beyond the usual UI stuff. Its a C problem. That could be a factor. I believe Gimp is the most complex application using Gtk... large C codebase is a message without those high-level language features.Doesn't GtkD solve them?
Jul 04 2020
On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 09:36:28 UTC, Mike James wrote:https://forum.dlang.org/post/hinhcixficvfjwidaknc forum.dlang.org On Sunday, 1 September 2019 at 18:57:07 UTC, Kamran wrote:Isn't that a one sided view? How about the many rewrites that turned out making a huge comeback? I'll say it depends, so one should should consider the trade-offs. Probably that's what you meant.Hello everyone, People who forked GIMP, a popular open source image editor are discussing on which language to choose for their rewrite at [1] and they are considering D. Maybe some of you can help them out. [1] https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/70Maybe they need to read... https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ -=mike=-
Jul 02 2020
On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 09:36:28 UTC, Mike James wrote:https://forum.dlang.org/post/hinhcixficvfjwidaknc forum.dlang.org On Sunday, 1 September 2019 at 18:57:07 UTC, Kamran wrote:I think rewrites can be valid if you switch from a buggy/verbose language like C/C++ to a more modern D/rust. You do more with less code and in the long term, you have a more clean code base where you can focus on solving the actual problem rather the thousands of undefined behaviors, verbosity of C/C++. Now, just rewrite a huge C/C++ code base in C/C++ looking for clean up the code, that, I think it is going to be a huge massive waste of time.Hello everyone, People who forked GIMP, a popular open source image editor are discussing on which language to choose for their rewrite at [1] and they are considering D. Maybe some of you can help them out. [1] https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/70Maybe they need to read... https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ -=mike=-
Jul 02 2020
On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 16:09:10 UTC, Liu wrote:On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 09:36:28 UTC, Mike James wrote:Yes if you can do the rewrite a bit at a time and make the code more maintainable, more open to improvement and modification in the future. So it's less a rewrite more a migration with future proofing in mind. But you have to be careful it's not "this code sucks so we'll rewrite it in D and then it wont suck". It's perfectly feasible to rewrite it from the ground up and it'll still suck.https://forum.dlang.org/post/hinhcixficvfjwidaknc forum.dlang.org -=mike=-I think rewrites can be valid if you switch from a buggy/verbose language like C/C++ to a more modern D/rust. You do more with less code and in the long term, you have a more clean code base where you can focus on solving the actual problem rather the thousands of undefined behaviors, verbosity of C/C++.
Jul 02 2020
On 7/2/20 5:36 AM, Mike James wrote:https://forum.dlang.org/post/hinhcixficvfjwidaknc forum.dlang.org On Sunday, 1 September 2019 at 18:57:07 UTC, Kamran wrote:Interesting piece. However, I think there are a few example where complete rewrites have been successful though. Two come to mind - eggs and hphp. Also I wonder how much of various parts of various Windows versions have been rewrites. For example I recall Windows NT was considered quite a different codebase from Windows 95.Hello everyone, People who forked GIMP, a popular open source image editor are discussing on which language to choose for their rewrite at [1] and they are considering D. Maybe some of you can help them out. [1] https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/70Maybe they need to read... https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/
Jul 02 2020
On 7/3/20 12:32 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:On 7/2/20 5:36 AM, Mike James wrote:s/eggs/egcs/https://forum.dlang.org/post/hinhcixficvfjwidaknc forum.dlang.org On Sunday, 1 September 2019 at 18:57:07 UTC, Kamran wrote:Interesting piece. However, I think there are a few example where complete rewrites have been successful though. Two come to mind - eggs and hphp. Also I wonder how much of various parts of various Windows versions have been rewrites. For example I recall Windows NT was considered quite a different codebase from Windows 95.Hello everyone, People who forked GIMP, a popular open source image editor are discussing on which language to choose for their rewrite at [1] and they are considering D. Maybe some of you can help them out. [1] https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/70Maybe they need to read... https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/
Jul 02 2020
On Thursday, 2 July 2020 at 09:36:28 UTC, Mike James wrote:https://forum.dlang.org/post/hinhcixficvfjwidaknc forum.dlang.org On Sunday, 1 September 2019 at 18:57:07 UTC, Kamran wrote:I think a full rewrite isn't an issue here, especially the points of that blog article are not applying here, because this isn't a replacement to GIMP where GIMP wouldn't continue development, it's just a new program from a separate team. So I think rewrite is a great idea.Hello everyone, People who forked GIMP, a popular open source image editor are discussing on which language to choose for their rewrite at [1] and they are considering D. Maybe some of you can help them out. [1] https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/70Maybe they need to read... https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ -=mike=-
Jul 03 2020
On Friday, 3 July 2020 at 09:10:04 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote:I think a full rewrite isn't an issue here, especially the points of that blog article are not applying here, because this isn't a replacement to GIMP where GIMP wouldn't continue development, it's just a new program from a separate team. So I think rewrite is a great idea.According to their main page [1] they are going to "permissively" license the new version. That might be the real reason: they probably could not do that if they just refactored the old code. 1: https://glimpse-editor.github.io/
Jul 03 2020