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digitalmars.D - Please help me with improving dlang.org

reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
I took the better part of today working on this: 
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. See demo 
at http://erdani.com/d/.

What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have now?

I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and also with 
improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page tracking as 
mentioned in the pull request.


Thanks,

Andrei
Jan 17 2015
next sibling parent reply "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 What do you all think?


colors feel very geocities-like :)
I'm not a designer so I couldn't give any color tips, but I like 
the functionality of the new design.
Jan 17 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/17/15 6:30 PM, weaselcat wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 What do you all think?


 colors feel very geocities-like :)
 I'm not a designer so I couldn't give any color tips, but I like the
 functionality of the new design.


Thanks! Yah, that coral-red is a bit sudden. I want something more 
subdued, Mars soil-like. -- Andrei
Jan 17 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent ketmar via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 18:18:17 -0800
Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com>
wrote:


 I took the better part of today working on this:=20
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. See demo=20
 at http://erdani.com/d/.
=20
 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have now?
=20
 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and also with=20
 improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page tracking as=20
 mentioned in the pull request.


as you wrote "What do you all think?", i will tell you my impressions
too.

somehow it's not looking better at all. the new sidebar is looking
like... like something that's alien to the site. it's very contrast,
which distracts from the main container, and screams: "read me! read
me! I TOLD YOU TO READ ME!"

old sidebar was almost unnoticable, which is good for supporting site
element. but new one looks like it's one of the main things on the
site, maybe even the most important one. it's white background sends a
signal "i'm The Content!"

but maybe i'm just too old for today's modern sites. for me, most of
them are designed for anything but presenting me the actual content and
just get out of my way while i'm reading. i was never able to
understand why current D site considered "old-fashioned" in the meaning
of "being old-fashioned is bad".

thank you for reading this old man's rant.
Jan 17 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent "H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d" <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 06:18:17PM -0800, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. See demo
 at http://erdani.com/d/.
 
 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have now?


Yes!



 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and also
 with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page tracking as
 mentioned in the pull request.


[...]

Too busy with std.algorithm, sorry. I managed to split it into 5 parts,
but having some trouble with some circular dependencies that's causing
std.algorithm.mutation to not work properly... but this belongs in a
different discussion.


T

-- 
Once the bikeshed is up for painting, the rainbow won't suffice. -- Andrei
Alexandrescu
Jan 17 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "MattCoder" <stop spam.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?


Nice but I changed a bit, so what do you think about this: 
http://i.imgur.com/AIvcoWl.png

?

Matheus.
Jan 17 2015
next sibling parent "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:55:40 UTC, MattCoder wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?


 Nice but I changed a bit, so what do you think about this: 
 http://i.imgur.com/AIvcoWl.png

 ?

 Matheus.


IMO this looks much better.
Jan 17 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent Daniel Kozak via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
MattCoder via Digitalmars-d píše v Ne 18. 01. 2015 v 02:55 +0000:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?


 
 Nice but I changed a bit, so what do you think about this: 
 http://i.imgur.com/AIvcoWl.png
 
 ?
 
 Matheus.


http://imgur.com/s155ec2
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling parent "desmond" <demsond dontask.me> writes:
this one looks pretty good!
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent "aldanor" <i.s.smirnov gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page 
 tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


The layout looks pretty bad on a mobile device.... you kind of 
expect it to be properly responsive these days. That might be one 
thing to get fixed.
Jan 17 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Kapps" <opantm2+spam gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page 
 tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


While I like the idea of it, and the new menus in general, those 
gradients are honestly really not nice. Very demanding and looks 
rather out of place.

Something like plain grey or black would be better, not a 
gradient and not something so pop-out like that red.
Jan 17 2015
parent reply "Kapps" <opantm2+spam gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 04:32:02 UTC, Kapps wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and 
 page tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 While I like the idea of it, and the new menus in general, 
 those gradients are honestly really not nice. Very demanding 
 and looks rather out of place.

 Something like plain grey or black would be better, not a 
 gradient and not something so pop-out like that red.


Oh, looks like it's different in Chrome vs Firefox. In Chrome 
it's a subtle red tint at the bottom, in Firefox it's an 
extremely bright red covering most of the button.
Jan 17 2015
next sibling parent reply "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 04:57:26 UTC, Kapps wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 04:32:02 UTC, Kapps wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei 
 Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and 
 page tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 While I like the idea of it, and the new menus in general, 
 those gradients are honestly really not nice. Very demanding 
 and looks rather out of place.

 Something like plain grey or black would be better, not a 
 gradient and not something so pop-out like that red.


 Oh, looks like it's different in Chrome vs Firefox. In Chrome 
 it's a subtle red tint at the bottom, in Firefox it's an 
 extremely bright red covering most of the button.


Looked at it in a webkit browser and you're right, I take back my 
first comment Andrei.
But it does seem messed up on Firefox.
https://i.imgur.com/FVb2Q6y.png
Jan 17 2015
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2015-01-18 06:14, weaselcat wrote:


 Looked at it in a webkit browser and you're right, I take back my first
 comment Andrei.
 But it does seem messed up on Firefox.
 https://i.imgur.com/FVb2Q6y.png


Looks like the colors are inverted.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jan 18 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdan.org> writes:
Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> wrote:

 On 2015-01-18 06:14, weaselcat wrote:
 

 Looked at it in a webkit browser and you're right, I take back my first
 comment Andrei.
 But it does seem messed up on Firefox.
 https://i.imgur.com/FVb2Q6y.png


 
 Looks like the colors are inverted.


I know what happened (but am afk for a while). I only changed colors in one
place in the css, the one specific to WebKit. That can be easily seen in
cssmenu.css in my pull request.
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/17/15 8:57 PM, Kapps wrote:

 Oh, looks like it's different in Chrome vs Firefox. In Chrome it's a
 subtle red tint at the bottom, in Firefox it's an extremely bright red
 covering most of the button.


Ugh. No idea where that comes from, but the original 
http://cssmenumaker.com/menu/modern-jquery-accordion-menu (with 
different colors) looks the same in both browsers.

Any experts in the house?


Andrei
Jan 17 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Israel" <tl12000 live.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page 
 tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


Too much code, I know its what you want people to see but if the 
entire length of the website consists of giant blocks of code it 
just doesnt look as pleasing to the eyes...

put all of that code and introduction to D into a subpage called 
"About"/"Intro to D". have it be the first subpage on the left 
column.

The front page should be updated with new content like your 
tweets, forum posts, articles from other websites,reddit, etc.

maybe under the documentation put a "Getting started" Tutorial?
Jan 17 2015
next sibling parent reply "Israel" <tl12000 live.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 04:44:56 UTC, Israel wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and 
 page tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 Too much code, I know its what you want people to see but if 
 the entire length of the website consists of giant blocks of 
 code it just doesnt look as pleasing to the eyes...

 put all of that code and introduction to D into a subpage 
 called "About"/"Intro to D". have it be the first subpage on 
 the left column.

 The front page should be updated with new content like your 
 tweets, forum posts, articles from other websites,reddit, etc.

 maybe under the documentation put a "Getting started" Tutorial?


I would also highly recommend advertising the patootie out of 
dub. Seriously, Dub is like the bright shining sapphire gem of Ds 
crown. Dub literally makes any other language look like crap.
Jan 17 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/17/15 9:05 PM, Israel wrote:

 I would also highly recommend advertising the patootie out of dub.
 Seriously, Dub is like the bright shining sapphire gem of Ds crown. Dub
 literally makes any other language look like crap.


Good idea. Updated pull request and site. Thanks! -- Andrei
Jan 17 2015
prev sibling parent reply "DaveG" <daveg inter.net> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 04:44:56 UTC, Israel wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and 
 page tracking as mentioned in the pull request.




I'm no designer, but I do have some comments. Without consistency 
it just looks a bunch of parts rather than a singular thing. Some 
elements have gradients, some don't. Some elements have round 
corners, some don't. Elements with borders use different widths, 
some have none. In regards to borders, we engineering types 
(maybe it's just me) tend to put boxes around stuff to represent 
discrete units when basic design concepts, like proximity and 
contrast, may be better suited for the task. I just took a quick 
pass at it in the browser:
Original: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/current.png
Cleanup: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/001.png
Cleanup w/o bg: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/002.png

Think "consistency and subtlety". Good design generally goes 
unnoticed.


 Too much code, I know its what you want people to see but if 
 the entire length of the website consists of giant blocks of 
 code it just doesnt look as pleasing to the eyes...

 put all of that code and introduction to D into a subpage 
 called "About"/"Intro to D". have it be the first subpage on 
 the left column.

 The front page should be updated with new content like your 
 tweets, forum posts, articles from other websites,reddit, etc.

 maybe under the documentation put a "Getting started" Tutorial?


I agree, from a new user perspective all the code might seem like 
a bit much. It might be a good to have short blurb about "Why D?" 
or "What is D?" or something. I also like the idea of 
highlighting some key projects, particularly ones with broad 
appeal (dub and VisualD come to mind). I would recommend keeping 
things like blog posts, tweets, etc. out of the the main content 
(on the side or bottom is fine). External sources usually make no 
sense to a new user, or are generic press pieces which are 
unnecessary because the person is already on the site.

-Dave
Jan 17 2015
next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/17/15 11:42 PM, DaveG wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 04:44:56 UTC, Israel wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. See
 demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and also
 with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page tracking
 as mentioned in the pull request.




 I'm no designer, but I do have some comments. Without consistency it
 just looks a bunch of parts rather than a singular thing. Some elements
 have gradients, some don't. Some elements have round corners, some
 don't. Elements with borders use different widths, some have none. In
 regards to borders, we engineering types (maybe it's just me) tend to
 put boxes around stuff to represent discrete units when basic design
 concepts, like proximity and contrast, may be better suited for the
 task. I just took a quick pass at it in the browser:
 Original: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/current.png
 Cleanup: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/001.png
 Cleanup w/o bg: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/002.png

 Think "consistency and subtlety". Good design generally goes unnoticed.


Looking good. Could you please do a pull request after mine gets in? 
Thanks! -- Andrei
Jan 17 2015
parent reply "Kiith-Sa" <kiithsacmp gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 07:44:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 1/17/15 11:42 PM, DaveG wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 04:44:56 UTC, Israel wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei 
 Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See
 demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we 
 have now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, 
 and also
 with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page 
 tracking
 as mentioned in the pull request.




 I'm no designer, but I do have some comments. Without 
 consistency it
 just looks a bunch of parts rather than a singular thing. Some 
 elements
 have gradients, some don't. Some elements have round corners, 
 some
 don't. Elements with borders use different widths, some have 
 none. In
 regards to borders, we engineering types (maybe it's just me) 
 tend to
 put boxes around stuff to represent discrete units when basic 
 design
 concepts, like proximity and contrast, may be better suited 
 for the
 task. I just took a quick pass at it in the browser:
 Original: 
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/current.png
 Cleanup: 
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/001.png
 Cleanup w/o bg: 
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/002.png

 Think "consistency and subtlety". Good design generally goes 
 unnoticed.


 Looking good. Could you please do a pull request after mine 
 gets in? Thanks! -- Andrei


The thing with the red gradients looks incredibly horrible/ bad 
constrast actually makes it physically (eye strain) unpleasant. 
The cleanup looks better, but now the site has 3 columns with 3 
different styles (not just colors, but e.g. flat vs gradient, 
edgy vs rounded, having that extra border on the bottom vs not 
having it)

Dlang.org needs design by a designer, not by art-insensitive 
programmers. No, I'm not much of a designer either, 
unfortunately. But it should not be too hard to find a student 
with decent art sense who can do much better than this.

Also, note that the collapsible menu can be done in pure CSS, no 
JS needed, which would allow it to work consistently even with 
NoScript.
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 5:41 AM, Kiith-Sa wrote:

 The thing with the red gradients looks incredibly horrible/ bad
 constrast actually makes it physically (eye strain) unpleasant. The
 cleanup looks better, but now the site has 3 columns with 3 different
 styles (not just colors, but e.g. flat vs gradient, edgy vs rounded,
 having that extra border on the bottom vs not having it)


I'll replace the gradient with flat colors today.


 Dlang.org needs design by a designer, not by art-insensitive
 programmers. No, I'm not much of a designer either, unfortunately. But
 it should not be too hard to find a student with decent art sense who
 can do much better than this.


I agree. Note that the difficult part for me was (a) finding the right 
stuff online, (b) learning the stuff involved in getting it to work on 
our site and degrade nicely without javascript, (c) getting the 
mechanics integrated.

In the process I changed ONE thing: the colors. EVERYBODY disliked the 
colors, but only ONE soul proposed others.


 Also, note that the collapsible menu can be done in pure CSS, no JS
 needed, which would allow it to work consistently even with NoScript.


I searched for ways to do accordion menus without Javascript for maybe a 
couple of hours today, no avail. My conclusion was it can't be done, or 
at least not with what's available for free. But of course that's based 
on two hours' worth of accumulating expertise. I challenge you to make a 
pull request that achieves accordion menus without Javascript. Feel free 
to start from my branch and change the code from there.


Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 8:33 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 1/18/15 5:41 AM, Kiith-Sa wrote:

 Also, note that the collapsible menu can be done in pure CSS, no JS
 needed, which would allow it to work consistently even with NoScript.


 I searched for ways to do accordion menus without Javascript for maybe a
 couple of hours today, no avail.


I meant yesterday, not today. I'm emphasizing this because I was hoping 
for pure CSS menus _before_ I got the current ones. The challenge 
remains: do pure CSS menus and I'll offer you my awe. -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 1/17/2015 11:42 PM, DaveG wrote:

 Original: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/current.png
 Cleanup: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/001.png
 Cleanup w/o bg: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/002.png



Better, but I liked the spidery red lines!
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling parent reply "Israel" <tl12000 live.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 07:42:05 UTC, DaveG wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 04:44:56 UTC, Israel wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei 
 Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and 
 page tracking as mentioned in the pull request.




 I'm no designer, but I do have some comments. Without 
 consistency it just looks a bunch of parts rather than a 
 singular thing. Some elements have gradients, some don't. Some 
 elements have round corners, some don't. Elements with borders 
 use different widths, some have none. In regards to borders, we 
 engineering types (maybe it's just me) tend to put boxes around 
 stuff to represent discrete units when basic design concepts, 
 like proximity and contrast, may be better suited for the task. 
 I just took a quick pass at it in the browser:
 Original: 
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/current.png
 Cleanup: 
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/001.png
 Cleanup w/o bg: 
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/002.png

 Think "consistency and subtlety". Good design generally goes 
 unnoticed.


 Too much code, I know its what you want people to see but if 
 the entire length of the website consists of giant blocks of 
 code it just doesnt look as pleasing to the eyes...

 put all of that code and introduction to D into a subpage 
 called "About"/"Intro to D". have it be the first subpage on 
 the left column.

 The front page should be updated with new content like your 
 tweets, forum posts, articles from other websites,reddit, etc.

 maybe under the documentation put a "Getting started" Tutorial?


 I agree, from a new user perspective all the code might seem 
 like a bit much. It might be a good to have short blurb about 
 "Why D?" or "What is D?" or something. I also like the idea of 
 highlighting some key projects, particularly ones with broad 
 appeal (dub and VisualD come to mind). I would recommend 
 keeping things like blog posts, tweets, etc. out of the the 
 main content (on the side or bottom is fine). External sources 
 usually make no sense to a new user, or are generic press 
 pieces which are unnecessary because the person is already on 
 the site.

 -Dave


This is very true. As a newcomer you've probably already found 
out about D through another website, friend, etc. Which proves 
your point 'unnecessary because the person is already on the 
site.'. however I'm thinking about people like is who are already 
here. We need to see how D is impacting the rest of the world so 
turning the front page to something like a blog would make 
traffic flow like crazy and grab more attention. Which is what D 
needs the most right now.

If you just have a static page frozen the same way for 7 years. 
You kind of start to see why people think "D is dead".
Jan 18 2015
parent "Suliman" <evermind live.ru> writes:
Half year ago there was attempted to rewrite site to vibed. I 
even see demo sites with fresh design. What happened thous 
projected was abandoned?
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Tofu Ninja" <emmons0 purdue.edu> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page 
 tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


Personally I don't like it, doesn't look like it matches with the 
rest of the site. But its totally awesome that something is 
getting done about the site because it does seem like its getting 
a little stale.

Personally what needs more attention is not the side menu, which 
I think is fine how it is now IMO, but the front page. It has way 
more code than what it should. Needs to be a good landing pad 
that advertises things like dub and visualD, and have quick 
downloads.

Also, what happened to the site redesign that was a big topic of 
talk a few months back? It seems to have faded out of talk and I 
haven't really seen any thing done about it.
Jan 17 2015
parent reply "Tofu Ninja" <emmons0 purdue.edu> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 07:11:27 UTC, Tofu Ninja wrote:

I think the color and theme of the sub-menus looks a lot better 
than the colors of the outer-menu. With the harsh red boarder, 
the outer-menu looks like a red tron grid to me.
Jan 17 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/17/15 11:16 PM, Tofu Ninja wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 07:11:27 UTC, Tofu Ninja wrote:

 I think the color and theme of the sub-menus looks a lot better than the
 colors of the outer-menu. With the harsh red boarder, the outer-menu
 looks like a red tron grid to me.


Yah, I took the design at 
http://cssmenumaker.com/menu/modern-jquery-accordion-menu and changed a 
couple of colors essentially at random.

I noticed several others have mentioned that the colors could be 
improved. Who can please try to do something about them?


Andrei
Jan 17 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Kapps" <opantm2+spam gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page 
 tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


Not sure if it's related to any of this, but the main page now 
contains broken links to the Library Reference.

Instead of going to /phobos/index.html, it's going to 
/phobos/index.html.html. Doesn't happen from forum.dlang.org, 
only dlang.org.
Jan 18 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 12:35 AM, Kapps wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. See demo
 at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and also
 with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page tracking as
 mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 Not sure if it's related to any of this, but the main page now contains
 broken links to the Library Reference.

 Instead of going to /phobos/index.html, it's going to
 /phobos/index.html.html. Doesn't happen from forum.dlang.org, only
 dlang.org.


Ouch, a lot of links got björked. Fixed and uploaded: 
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/commit/13cc207be4635f4e1b847b439c7191e751e503d5

Andrei
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 1/17/2015 6:18 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. See demo at
 http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and also with
 improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page tracking as mentioned in
 the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


Me like. And I do like the spidery red lines in particular.
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "Tofu Ninja" <emmons0 purdue.edu> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 08:42:30 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:


 Me like. And I do like the spidery red lines in particular.


The red lines were what I particularly disliked, looks old and 
unclean to me.
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Rikki Cattermole <alphaglosined gmail.com> writes:
On 18/01/2015 10:40 p.m., Tofu Ninja wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 08:42:30 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:


 Me like. And I do like the spidery red lines in particular.


 The red lines were what I particularly disliked, looks old and unclean
 to me.


Also that contrast is awful on the eyes!
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 1/18/2015 1:41 AM, Rikki Cattermole wrote:

 On 18/01/2015 10:40 p.m., Tofu Ninja wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 08:42:30 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:


 Me like. And I do like the spidery red lines in particular.


 The red lines were what I particularly disliked, looks old and unclean
 to me.


 Also that contrast is awful on the eyes!


How can a 1 pixel wide line be awful on the eyes?
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Rikki Cattermole <alphaglosined gmail.com> writes:
On 19/01/2015 2:07 p.m., Walter Bright wrote:

 On 1/18/2015 1:41 AM, Rikki Cattermole wrote:

 On 18/01/2015 10:40 p.m., Tofu Ninja wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 08:42:30 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:


 Me like. And I do like the spidery red lines in particular.


 The red lines were what I particularly disliked, looks old and unclean
 to me.


 Also that contrast is awful on the eyes!


 How can a 1 pixel wide line be awful on the eyes?


When you have a headache and not in a really good head space it can hurt.
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 1/18/2015 6:07 PM, Rikki Cattermole wrote:

 When you have a headache and not in a really good head space it can hurt.


Hope you feel better soon.
Jan 18 2015
parent Rikki Cattermole <alphaglosined gmail.com> writes:
On 19/01/2015 4:49 p.m., Walter Bright wrote:

 On 1/18/2015 6:07 PM, Rikki Cattermole wrote:

 When you have a headache and not in a really good head space it can hurt.


 Hope you feel better soon.


I am slowly, thanks.
Really I just need to start working getting Cmsed and friends back into 
good shape for GSOC.
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2015-01-18 03:18, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. See demo
 at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have now?


It looks absolutely horrible. It was way, way better before.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jan 18 2015
next sibling parent reply "Paolo Invernizzi" <paolo.invernizzi no.address> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 10:16:15 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2015-01-18 03:18, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo
 at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?


 It looks absolutely horrible. It was way, way better before.


Sorry Andrei, but +1 on Jacob! ;-O
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 2:24 AM, Paolo Invernizzi wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 10:16:15 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2015-01-18 03:18, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. See demo
 at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have now?


 It looks absolutely horrible. It was way, way better before.


 Sorry Andrei, but +1 on Jacob! ;-O


Suggestions on how to make it better? -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2015-01-18 17:21, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:


 Suggestions on how to make it better? -- Andrei


Something flat (i.e. no gradient) or with less difference between the 
colors in the gradient.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 11:43 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2015-01-18 17:21, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:


 Suggestions on how to make it better? -- Andrei


 Something flat (i.e. no gradient) or with less difference between the
 colors in the gradient.


OK, the current attempt has no gradient at all. Probably too flat? -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
next sibling parent "Brad Anderson" <eco gnuk.net> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 02:22:33 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 1/18/15 11:43 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2015-01-18 17:21, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:


 Suggestions on how to make it better? -- Andrei


 Something flat (i.e. no gradient) or with less difference 
 between the
 colors in the gradient.


 OK, the current attempt has no gradient at all. Probably too 
 flat? -- Andrei


Much better in my opinion.
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2015-01-19 03:22, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:


 OK, the current attempt has no gradient at all. Probably too flat? --


No, not really. But now the top menu item looks out of place. And the 
bottom border of the menu ... doesn't look right. I would guess you can 
just remove it.

Although I still like the old design better. But the collapsible menu 
might be a good idea.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling parent reply "aldanor" <i.s.smirnov gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 10:16:15 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2015-01-18 03:18, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo
 at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?


 It looks absolutely horrible. It was way, way better before


On iPhone 6: D, Rust, Python, Ruby websites (Ruby being 
particularly gorgeous and D looking particularly ancient and out 
of place):

http://imgur.com/7Vb2ynM
http://imgur.com/SGKUd2q
http://imgur.com/bXk1lf9
http://imgur.com/njSgbzW
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "ponce" <contact gamesfrommars.fr> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 10:27:43 UTC, aldanor wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 10:16:15 UTC, Jacob Carlborg 
 wrote:

 On 2015-01-18 03:18, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo
 at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?


 It looks absolutely horrible. It was way, way better before


 On iPhone 6: D, Rust, Python, Ruby websites (Ruby being 
 particularly gorgeous and D looking particularly ancient and 
 out of place):

 http://imgur.com/7Vb2ynM
 http://imgur.com/SGKUd2q
 http://imgur.com/bXk1lf9
 http://imgur.com/njSgbzW


Looks like tweets occupy valuable screen estate on this device.
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 2:36 AM, ponce wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 10:27:43 UTC, aldanor wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 10:16:15 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2015-01-18 03:18, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. See demo
 at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have now?


 It looks absolutely horrible. It was way, way better before


 On iPhone 6: D, Rust, Python, Ruby websites (Ruby being particularly
 gorgeous and D looking particularly ancient and out of place):

 http://imgur.com/7Vb2ynM
 http://imgur.com/SGKUd2q
 http://imgur.com/bXk1lf9
 http://imgur.com/njSgbzW


 Looks like tweets occupy valuable screen estate on this device.


Can we ditch the twitter div on mobile? (Pull request would be nice, 
thanks.) -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
next sibling parent reply "aldanor" <i.s.smirnov gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 16:23:35 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 1/18/15 2:36 AM, ponce wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 10:27:43 UTC, aldanor wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 10:16:15 UTC, Jacob Carlborg 
 wrote:

 On 2015-01-18 03:18, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo
 at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we 
 have now?


 It looks absolutely horrible. It was way, way better before


 On iPhone 6: D, Rust, Python, Ruby websites (Ruby being 
 particularly
 gorgeous and D looking particularly ancient and out of place):

 http://imgur.com/7Vb2ynM
 http://imgur.com/SGKUd2q
 http://imgur.com/bXk1lf9
 http://imgur.com/njSgbzW


 Looks like tweets occupy valuable screen estate on this device.


 Can we ditch the twitter div on mobile? (Pull request would be 
 nice, thanks.) -- Andrei


This is usually solved by media queries / responsive design / 
grid frameworks, sorry if I'm stating the obvious :) Try resizing 
the commonly used websites and see what happens, e.g. for 
ruby-lang you have at least 3 "versions" which are selected 
automatically based on the current viewport's settings which the 
browser provides: http://imgur.com/a/gE38d

E.g. the menus on the left getting folded into one mobile 
"button" which expands them on demand and leaves more space for 
the actual content, or some elements disappearing in smaller 
viewports altogether (like the twitter feed div). This is quite a 
pain to manage manually without having an underlying grid 
framework.
Jan 18 2015
next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 9:02 AM, aldanor wrote:

 This is usually solved by media queries / responsive design / grid
 frameworks, sorry if I'm stating the obvious :) Try resizing the
 commonly used websites and see what happens, e.g. for ruby-lang you have
 at least 3 "versions" which are selected automatically based on the
 current viewport's settings which the browser provides:
 http://imgur.com/a/gE38d

 E.g. the menus on the left getting folded into one mobile "button" which
 expands them on demand and leaves more space for the actual content, or
 some elements disappearing in smaller viewports altogether (like the
 twitter feed div). This is quite a pain to manage manually without
 having an underlying grid framework.


My understanding is there are various simpler way to do this, e.g. 
separate styles for small screen devices, redirection to a different 
URL, setting "hidden" to certain DIVs dynamically etc. etc. As you 
saying there's no way to do this unless we use some grid framework I 
know nothing about and probably need to learn? -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
next sibling parent "aldanor" <i.s.smirnov gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 17:05:28 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 1/18/15 9:02 AM, aldanor wrote:

 This is usually solved by media queries / responsive design / 
 grid
 frameworks, sorry if I'm stating the obvious :) Try resizing 
 the
 commonly used websites and see what happens, e.g. for 
 ruby-lang you have
 at least 3 "versions" which are selected automatically based 
 on the
 current viewport's settings which the browser provides:
 http://imgur.com/a/gE38d

 E.g. the menus on the left getting folded into one mobile 
 "button" which
 expands them on demand and leaves more space for the actual 
 content, or
 some elements disappearing in smaller viewports altogether 
 (like the
 twitter feed div). This is quite a pain to manage manually 
 without
 having an underlying grid framework.


 My understanding is there are various simpler way to do this, 
 e.g. separate styles for small screen devices, redirection to a 
 different URL, setting "hidden" to certain DIVs dynamically 
 etc. etc. As you saying there's no way to do this unless we use 
 some grid framework I know nothing about and probably need to 
 learn? -- Andrei


The thing with frameworks is that some designers have put a 
considerable amount of time on putting them together, making them 
cross-browser compatible, working around various edge cases etc 
(and there are many...) -- so that you won't have to. Once you 
want something like responsiveness + automatic reflows, things 
start getting even more complicated... Not all frameworks are 
gigantic like bootstrap/foundation, there's some smaller ones 
that just do the grid thing (like 960). (that, or you can always 
pull just the bits you want from bootstrap or anything and minify 
it). Another point is that if you use the elements the framework 
provides (e.g. navbar menu), they would be already nicely 
compatible with the framework's grid system. As an example -- try 
resizing the width here and see what happens: 
http://getbootstrap.com/examples/grid/.

There's also some minimalistic frameworks -- like PureCSS, just 
to give an example -- http://purecss.io and 
https://github.com/yahoo/pure, where the entire grid system is 
just 0.8KB.
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "aldanor" <i.s.smirnov gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 17:05:28 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 1/18/15 9:02 AM, aldanor wrote:

 This is usually solved by media queries / responsive design / 
 grid
 frameworks, sorry if I'm stating the obvious :) Try resizing 
 the
 commonly used websites and see what happens, e.g. for 
 ruby-lang you have
 at least 3 "versions" which are selected automatically based 
 on the
 current viewport's settings which the browser provides:
 http://imgur.com/a/gE38d

 E.g. the menus on the left getting folded into one mobile 
 "button" which
 expands them on demand and leaves more space for the actual 
 content, or
 some elements disappearing in smaller viewports altogether 
 (like the
 twitter feed div). This is quite a pain to manage manually 
 without
 having an underlying grid framework.


 My understanding is there are various simpler way to do this, 
 e.g. separate styles for small screen devices, redirection to a 
 different URL, setting "hidden" to certain DIVs dynamically 
 etc. etc. As you saying there's no way to do this unless we use 
 some grid framework I know nothing about and probably need to 
 learn? -- Andrei


And yet another thing you gain with (most) frameworks is having 
access to the original SASS/LESS. This essentially provides you 
with features like inheritance, mixins and default values for CSS 
which reduces the boilerplate and makes the whole thing much more 
manageable.
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 17:56:41 UTC, aldanor wrote:

 And yet another thing you gain with (most) frameworks is having 
 access to the original SASS/LESS.


I think that's a con, actually. My biggest problem with 
contributing to the dlang website is that I have to do it blind - 
it won't make on my computer.

The last thing we need is to make that process even more 
complicated with even more dependencies.
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 11:15 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 17:56:41 UTC, aldanor wrote:

 And yet another thing you gain with (most) frameworks is having access
 to the original SASS/LESS.


 I think that's a con, actually. My biggest problem with contributing to
 the dlang website is that I have to do it blind - it won't make on my
 computer.


This has been a continuous source of annoyance for me. Seems like 
whenever I turn my back the site build gets broken.

Right now I have it working smoothly, but I know of a few potential 
issues. Could you please reply here with your problem(s) and I'll get a 
robust solution in place?


Thanks,

Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "DaveG" <daveg inter.net> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 02:21:41 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 1/18/15 11:15 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 17:56:41 UTC, aldanor wrote:

 And yet another thing you gain with (most) frameworks is 
 having access
 to the original SASS/LESS.


 I think that's a con, actually. My biggest problem with 
 contributing to
 the dlang website is that I have to do it blind - it won't 
 make on my
 computer.




I agree about SASS and other tools. There are so many now you 
have to learn all of them (or none, in my case). Many years ago I 
wrote primitive script to do what SASS eventually did for CSS. 
The added features were nice, but barley justified the added 
complexity and build process. As soon as I joined a team I 
abandoned it completely. They can be useful particularly for 
larger/long-term projects, but it's a steep upfront cost and is 
particularly frustrating for people who just need to make minor 
changes.


 This has been a continuous source of annoyance for me. Seems 
 like whenever I turn my back the site build gets broken.


I was worried about that, but I actually had no problem. I'm on 
Windows. I cloned your better-menus, had dub build dpl-docs.exe, 
and ran the win32 makefile.

Here's where I'm at. The menus don't use javascript (except when 
the screen gets so small it needs a button to open the 
navigation, the button uses js). It scales with screen size and 
should work on mobile (untested) - I changed doctype to html5 and 
added metatags for mobile.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/redesign/index.html
Jan 18 2015
next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 6:50 PM, DaveG wrote:

 Here's where I'm at. The menus don't use javascript (except when the
 screen gets so small it needs a button to open the navigation, the
 button uses js). It scales with screen size and should work on mobile
 (untested) - I changed doctype to html5 and added metatags for mobile.

 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/redesign/index.html


I think I know why no javascript. Currently the *.js files are loaded 
from /js/, i.e. absolute path. Change that to relative path and it'll work.

All - what do you think of dropping the background image and use the 
DaveG's telluric background for menu?


Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 03:06:35 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 1/18/15 6:50 PM, DaveG wrote:

 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/redesign/index.html


 All - what do you think of dropping the background image and 
 use the DaveG's telluric background for menu?


I like it, and also the resizing stuff covers what I did so if 
his changes go through, I can close my PR too. That's a win.
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 7:18 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 03:06:35 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 1/18/15 6:50 PM, DaveG wrote:

 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/redesign/index.html


 All - what do you think of dropping the background image and use the
 DaveG's telluric background for menu?


 I like it, and also the resizing stuff covers what I did so if his
 changes go through, I can close my PR too. That's a win.


Wati, what resizing stuff? -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 04:18:02 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 Wati, what resizing stuff? -- Andrei


Resize the browser and the sidebars disappear when there's no 
longer enough room to reasonably fit them. It is important for 
readability on mobile so a really good thing to have (for the 
people who use the mobile browsers).
Jan 18 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 8:57 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 04:18:02 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 Wati, what resizing stuff? -- Andrei


 Resize the browser and the sidebars disappear when there's no longer
 enough room to reasonably fit them. It is important for readability on
 mobile so a really good thing to have (for the people who use the mobile
 browsers).


Where is that implemented? Is there a pull request? -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2015-01-19 03:50, DaveG wrote:


 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/redesign/index.html


It would be better if the menu could become some kind of drop down. Look 
at how Bootstrap is doing it [1]. The menu doesn't take up any more 
horizontal space when it's expanded.

[1] http://getbootstrap.com

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "DaveG" <daveg inter.net> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 07:56:39 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2015-01-19 03:50, DaveG wrote:


 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/redesign/index.html


 It would be better if the menu could become some kind of drop 
 down. Look at how Bootstrap is doing it [1]. The menu doesn't 
 take up any more horizontal space when it's expanded.

 [1] http://getbootstrap.com


The vertical menu expanded from the top works well with 
relatively few items (in the case of bootstrap, eight). 
Personally, I don't think that method works well with many items 
(we currently show 13, and up to 26 when expanded). It is 
particularly weird when the menu takes up more than the height of 
the screen and you loose the context of where you are. Maybe I'm 
in the minority, what do other people think?

-Dave
Jan 19 2015
next sibling parent "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 17:00:19 UTC, DaveG wrote:

 On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 07:56:39 UTC, Jacob Carlborg 
 wrote:

 On 2015-01-19 03:50, DaveG wrote:


 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/redesign/index.html


 It would be better if the menu could become some kind of drop 
 down. Look at how Bootstrap is doing it [1]. The menu doesn't 
 take up any more horizontal space when it's expanded.

 [1] http://getbootstrap.com


 The vertical menu expanded from the top works well with 
 relatively few items (in the case of bootstrap, eight). 
 Personally, I don't think that method works well with many 
 items (we currently show 13, and up to 26 when expanded). It is 
 particularly weird when the menu takes up more than the height 
 of the screen and you loose the context of where you are. Maybe 
 I'm in the minority, what do other people think?

 -Dave


+1
The menus are too long for it.
Jan 19 2015
prev sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2015-01-19 18:00, DaveG wrote:


 The vertical menu expanded from the top works well with relatively few
 items (in the case of bootstrap, eight). Personally, I don't think that
 method works well with many items (we currently show 13, and up to 26
 when expanded). It is particularly weird when the menu takes up more
 than the height of the screen and you loose the context of where you
 are. Maybe I'm in the minority, what do other people think?


I think we already have do many items in the menu, this would be a good 
opportunity to reorganize the menu a bit.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jan 19 2015
parent "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 19:47:25 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2015-01-19 18:00, DaveG wrote:


 The vertical menu expanded from the top works well with 
 relatively few
 items (in the case of bootstrap, eight). Personally, I don't 
 think that
 method works well with many items (we currently show 13, and 
 up to 26
 when expanded). It is particularly weird when the menu takes 
 up more
 than the height of the screen and you loose the context of 
 where you
 are. Maybe I'm in the minority, what do other people think?


 I think we already have do many items in the menu, this would 
 be a good opportunity to reorganize the menu a bit.


Agreed.
FWIW, dub is listed twice on Andrei's update - it's under "Get D
libraries" and "Community->Third Party Packages"

The documentation drop-down is also very cluttered.
Jan 19 2015
prev sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 6:50 PM, DaveG wrote:

 Here's where I'm at. The menus don't use javascript (except when the
 screen gets so small it needs a button to open the navigation, the
 button uses js). It scales with screen size and should work on mobile
 (untested) - I changed doctype to html5 and added metatags for mobile.

 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/redesign/index.html


Could you please submit a PR to my better-menus fork on github? Thanks! 
-- Andrei
Jan 19 2015
parent reply "DaveG" <daveg inter.net> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 16:44:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 1/18/15 6:50 PM, DaveG wrote:

 Here's where I'm at. The menus don't use javascript (except 
 when the
 screen gets so small it needs a button to open the navigation, 
 the
 button uses js). It scales with screen size and should work on 
 mobile
 (untested) - I changed doctype to html5 and added metatags for 
 mobile.

 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/114394/D-site/redesign/index.html


 Could you please submit a PR to my better-menus fork on github? 
 Thanks! -- Andrei


I need to fix a few things tonight. Also, is there some way to 
know what the current page is when generating the html? It would 
be nice to know what page you are currently on. Actually now that 
I think of it, with sub-navigation I also need to know the parent 
so it can be expanded when on a sub-page. I can do it in 
javascript, but that's not ideal.
Jan 19 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/19/15 9:37 AM, DaveG wrote:

 I need to fix a few things tonight. Also, is there some way to know what
 the current page is when generating the html? It would be nice to know
 what page you are currently on. Actually now that I think of it, with
 sub-navigation I also need to know the parent so it can be expanded when
 on a sub-page. I can do it in javascript, but that's not ideal.


Sadly no. You have the title of the current page as $(TITLE) which is by 
default the extensionless filename but many pages are setting differently.

I think javascript is the way to go.

Should we pull my stuff so the others come on top of it?


Andrei
Jan 19 2015
parent reply "DaveG" <daveg inter.net> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 18:46:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 Should we pull my stuff so the others come on top of it?


I'm new to git (and github) so I don't know the process. I just 
cloned your branch locally and have been working off that. I 
assume I can fork master and push my changes to that and then do 
a pull request. Is this correct? If that's the case you shouldn't 
have to pull your changes (although you may want to just for the 
history and to close the request, I don't know).

-Dave
Jan 19 2015
parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On 1/20/2015 5:21 AM, DaveG wrote:

 On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 18:46:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 Should we pull my stuff so the others come on top of it?


 I'm new to git (and github) so I don't know the process. I just cloned
 your branch locally and have been working off that. I assume I can fork
 master and push my changes to that and then do a pull request. Is this
 correct? If that's the case you shouldn't have to pull your changes
 (although you may want to just for the history and to close the request,
 I don't know).

 -Dave


Fork first, clone your fork, create a new branch, make changes, push to 
your fork, create a PR from the new branch [1].

As I learned on my first PR, you'll want to create separate branches for 
each unrelated change. Once you submit a PR, further changes pushed to 
that branch will be added to it.

[1] https://help.github.com/articles/creating-a-pull-request/
Jan 19 2015
parent "DaveG" <daveg inter.net> writes:
On Tuesday, 20 January 2015 at 01:49:45 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 Fork first, clone your fork, create a new branch, make changes, 
 push to your fork, create a PR from the new branch [1].

 As I learned on my first PR, you'll want to create separate 
 branches for each unrelated change. Once you submit a PR, 
 further changes pushed to that branch will be added to it.


Thanks Mike. Got stuck at the office, didn't get home until 
around 11 which didn't leave much time to work on it. Hopefully 
tomorrow will be better.
Jan 19 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Mengu" <mengukagan gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 17:05:28 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 1/18/15 9:02 AM, aldanor wrote:

 This is usually solved by media queries / responsive design / 
 grid
 frameworks, sorry if I'm stating the obvious :) Try resizing 
 the
 commonly used websites and see what happens, e.g. for 
 ruby-lang you have
 at least 3 "versions" which are selected automatically based 
 on the
 current viewport's settings which the browser provides:
 http://imgur.com/a/gE38d

 E.g. the menus on the left getting folded into one mobile 
 "button" which
 expands them on demand and leaves more space for the actual 
 content, or
 some elements disappearing in smaller viewports altogether 
 (like the
 twitter feed div). This is quite a pain to manage manually 
 without
 having an underlying grid framework.


 My understanding is there are various simpler way to do this, 
 e.g. separate styles for small screen devices, redirection to a 
 different URL, setting "hidden" to certain DIVs dynamically 
 etc. etc. As you saying there's no way to do this unless we use 
 some grid framework I know nothing about and probably need to 
 learn? -- Andrei


when not using a css framework like this, then the app for the 
mobile will consist of css and javascript hacks. and mostly one 
would lack the designers' and frontend developers' experience :)

if i may, i'll go and straightly ask a very great designer friend 
of mine to help us out. he'll either design a new interface for 
us or help us make this one better. let me know your call.
Jan 18 2015
next sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdan.org> writes:
"Mengu" <mengukagan gmail.com> wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 17:05:28 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 1/18/15 9:02 AM, aldanor wrote:

 This is usually solved by media queries / responsive design / >> grid
 frameworks, sorry if I'm stating the obvious :) Try resizing >> the
 commonly used websites and see what happens, e.g. for >> ruby-lang you have
 at least 3 "versions" which are selected automatically based >> on the
 current viewport's settings which the browser provides:
 http://imgur.com/a/gE38d
 
 E.g. the menus on the left getting folded into one mobile >> "button" which
 expands them on demand and leaves more space for the actual >> content, or
 some elements disappearing in smaller viewports altogether >> (like the
 twitter feed div). This is quite a pain to manage manually >> without
 having an underlying grid framework.


 
 My understanding is there are various simpler way to do this, > e.g.
 separate styles for small screen devices, redirection to a > different
 URL, setting "hidden" to certain DIVs dynamically > etc. etc. As you
 saying there's no way to do this unless we use > some grid framework I
 know nothing about and probably need to > learn? -- Andrei


 
 when not using a css framework like this, then the app for the mobile
 will consist of css and javascript hacks. and mostly one would lack the
 designers' and frontend developers' experience :)
 
 if i may, i'll go and straightly ask a very great designer friend of mine
 to help us out. he'll either design a new interface for us or help us
 make this one better. let me know your call.


Give it a couple more weeks until I migrate more stuff to CSS, then ask
what it would take to improve the css. Thanks!
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling parent "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 17:58:57 UTC, Mengu wrote:

 if i may, i'll go and straightly ask a very great designer 
 friend of mine to help us out. he'll either design a new 
 interface for us or help us make this one better. let me know 
 your call.


BTW I'll write the css myself if some designer wants to send me a 
.png file of what they want the site to look like. (I shouldn't 
be promising this given the million other things I have to do, 
but writing css isn't really that hard compared to coming up with 
the visual design)

Tough I think the site is basically ok looking right now and just 
a few minor tweaks would be nice... which is why I wrote them 
myself.

I encourage others to do the same, just open a pull request and 
we can hash it out over some concrete code.
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling parent reply "DaveG" <daveg inter.net> writes:
 On 1/18/15 5:41 AM, Kiith-Sa wrote:

 Also, note that the collapsible menu can be done in pure CSS, 
 no JS
 needed, which would allow it to work consistently even with 
 NoScript.




It is possible with CSS only (I think), but fancy features like 
animations require CSS3 transitions which has inconsistent 
support. Do we have a set of "supported" browsers? In this case 
we shouldn't have any problem degrading gracefully anyway, but 
it's good to know.


 On 1/18/15 9:02 AM, aldanor wrote:

 This is usually solved by media queries / responsive design / 
 grid
 frameworks, sorry if I'm stating the obvious :)


 My understanding is there are various simpler way to do this, 
 e.g. separate styles for small screen devices, redirection to a 
 different URL, setting "hidden" to certain DIVs dynamically 
 etc. etc. As you saying there's no way to do this unless we use 
 some grid framework...


We don't need to use a framework, although it might be a good 
idea if someone has experience with one they think is 
appropriate. I'll try to get to the menus and making primary 
layout responsive at some point today.

-Dave
Jan 18 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdan.org> writes:
"DaveG" <daveg inter.net> wrote:

 On 1/18/15 5:41 AM, Kiith-Sa wrote:

 Also, note that the collapsible menu can be done in pure CSS, >> no JS
 needed, which would allow it to work consistently even with >> NoScript.




 It is possible with CSS only (I think), but fancy features like
 animations require CSS3 transitions which has inconsistent support. Do we
 have a set of "supported" browsers? In this case we shouldn't have any
 problem degrading gracefully anyway, but it's good to know.
 

 On 1/18/15 9:02 AM, aldanor wrote:

 This is usually solved by media queries / responsive design / >> grid
 frameworks, sorry if I'm stating the obvious :)


 
 My understanding is there are various simpler way to do this, > e.g.
 separate styles for small screen devices, redirection to a > different
 URL, setting "hidden" to certain DIVs dynamically > etc. etc. As you
 saying there's no way to do this unless we use > some grid framework...


 We don't need to use a framework, although it might be a good idea if
 someone has experience with one they think is appropriate. I'll try to
 get to the menus and making primary layout responsive at some point today.
 
 -Dave


Thanks!!
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling parent "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 17:03:00 UTC, aldanor wrote:

 This is usually solved by media queries / responsive design / 
 grid frameworks, sorry if I'm stating the obvious :)


Yeah, and it is really REALLY easy.

https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/779

Jacob makes a few good points that could improve it a bit but 
just hiding it on a certain size is better than it is now.
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2015-01-18 17:23, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:


 Can we ditch the twitter div on mobile? (Pull request would be nice,
 thanks.) -- Andrei


Adam has already created that: 
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/779

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "ponce" <contact gamesfrommars.fr> writes:
I like it. It feels good to have code.dlang.org featured 
prominently.

Nitpicks:

- Main thing is see is that for the left button you reversed the 
natural flow of light. It will feel a _lot_ less alien if the 
bottom of nav button is darker than the top, rather than the 
current. Currrently such button brings much attention since this 
principle is reversed.
- two different links to code.dlang.org
- I'm a huge user of one-click-to-D-forums, the forums are always 
interesting to read and I've been doing just that for six years 
now. Maybe the Community panel should be expanded by default.

On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page 
 tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "ponce" <contact gamesfrommars.fr> writes:
I'll add: as a user I don't really wan't to see Acknoledgments, 
Appendices and Sitemap buttons. This doesn't seem as important as 
seeing Forums.


On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 10:34:15 UTC, ponce wrote:

 I like it. It feels good to have code.dlang.org featured 
 prominently.

 Nitpicks:

 - Main thing is see is that for the left button you reversed 
 the natural flow of light. It will feel a _lot_ less alien if 
 the bottom of nav button is darker than the top, rather than 
 the current. Currrently such button brings much attention since 
 this principle is reversed.
 - two different links to code.dlang.org
 - I'm a huge user of one-click-to-D-forums, the forums are 
 always interesting to read and I've been doing just that for 
 six years now. Maybe the Community panel should be expanded by 
 default.

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and 
 page tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 2:46 AM, ponce wrote:

 I'll add: as a user I don't really wan't to see Acknoledgments,
 Appendices and Sitemap buttons. This doesn't seem as important as seeing
 Forums.


Yah the actual content of the menu is subject to a different set of 
changes. Right now I'm focused on the styling. -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "NVolcz" <niklas.volcz gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page 
 tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


The sidebar colors does look... I liked the old menus better. It 
was a bit old school but it still looked good (like the reddit 
menus). The only bad thing about the old menus is that there is 
to many links
Responsive design is missing. I think we could get some of it for 
free if we used a framework like bootstrap (rust uses it).
Many different styles on different sections. It feels like I'm 
redirected all around the web. E.x code.dlang.org vs. dlang.org. 
Shouldn't all this be under the same site? Maybe we should give 
some indication that some links are not part of dlang.org.

Googles pagespeed also gives some nice guidelines:
https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/?url=dlang.org

Best regards,
NVolcz
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "MattCoder" <stop spam.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 21:27:25 UTC, NVolcz wrote:

 Googles pagespeed also gives some nice guidelines:
 https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/?url=dlang.org


Nice and for image processing/compression I'd like to recommend 
this free tool (Win/Linux/Mac):

http://advsys.net/ken/utils.htm#pngoutkziplicense

Matheus.
Jan 18 2015
parent ketmar via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 23:47:30 +0000
MattCoder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:


 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 21:27:25 UTC, NVolcz wrote:

 Googles pagespeed also gives some nice guidelines:
 https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/?url=3Ddlang.org


=20
 Nice and for image processing/compression I'd like to recommend=20
 this free tool (Win/Linux/Mac):
=20
 http://advsys.net/ken/utils.htm#pngoutkziplicense


there are also "optipng" and "advpng". the last comes with MAME, i
believe, and using google's zopfli library to squeeze out even more
bytes in exchange of big processing times.
Jan 18 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Zach the Mystic" <reachzach gggmail.com> writes:
I like the buttons with the dark red gradients on the left. 
Although the button titles don't seem professional to me, the 
buttons do.

I'm personally interested in seeing the "story" of D told better. 
I have more of a conscious opinion of the words of the front page 
than I do of the look-and-feel. Are the words up for discussion 
here, or just the look-and-feel for now?
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 3:36 PM, Zach the Mystic wrote:

 I like the buttons with the dark red gradients on the left. Although the
 button titles don't seem professional to me, the buttons do.

 I'm personally interested in seeing the "story" of D told better. I have
 more of a conscious opinion of the words of the front page than I do of
 the look-and-feel. Are the words up for discussion here, or just the
 look-and-feel for now?


Content discussion to follow soon. -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "MattCoder" <stop spam.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 01:41:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 Content discussion to follow soon. -- Andrei


As I asked in another Topic without any answer, I wasn't able to 
find (or at least is not easily visible) anything related to 
"CONTRIBUTE" even on sitemap.

I think there should be a button for this on the main site.

Matheus.
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 6:09 PM, MattCoder wrote:

 On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 01:41:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 Content discussion to follow soon. -- Andrei


 As I asked in another Topic without any answer, I wasn't able to find
 (or at least is not easily visible) anything related to "CONTRIBUTE"
 even on sitemap.

 I think there should be a button for this on the main site.


Great idea. Could you please put that in bugzilla, it's important and 
shouldn't be forgotten. -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "MattCoder" <stop spam.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 02:19:30 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 1/18/15 6:09 PM, MattCoder wrote:

 On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 01:41:04 UTC, Andrei 
 Alexandrescu wrote:

 Content discussion to follow soon. -- Andrei


 As I asked in another Topic without any answer, I wasn't able 
 to find
 (or at least is not easily visible) anything related to 
 "CONTRIBUTE"
 even on sitemap.

 I think there should be a button for this on the main site.


 Great idea. Could you please put that in bugzilla, it's 
 important and shouldn't be forgotten. -- Andrei


My first time using bugzilla: 
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14006

Please could anyone tell if I did right?

Matheus.
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 6:37 PM, MattCoder wrote:

 On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 02:19:30 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 1/18/15 6:09 PM, MattCoder wrote:

 On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 01:41:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 Content discussion to follow soon. -- Andrei


 As I asked in another Topic without any answer, I wasn't able to find
 (or at least is not easily visible) anything related to "CONTRIBUTE"
 even on sitemap.

 I think there should be a button for this on the main site.


 Great idea. Could you please put that in bugzilla, it's important and
 shouldn't be forgotten. -- Andrei


 My first time using bugzilla:
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14006

 Please could anyone tell if I did right?


Yes. Next step: fix it! :o) -- Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2015-01-19 03:44, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:


 Yes. Next step: fix it! :o) -- Andrei


A couple of years ago I started on writing a contribution document [1] 
but never finished it. It might be a bit outdated now but it's mostly 
correct and could be used as a starting point.

[1] https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18386187/contribute.html

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Jan 19 2015
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/19/15 12:09 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2015-01-19 03:44, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:


 Yes. Next step: fix it! :o) -- Andrei


 A couple of years ago I started on writing a contribution document [1]
 but never finished it. It might be a bit outdated now but it's mostly
 correct and could be used as a starting point.

 [1] https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18386187/contribute.html


Great, thanks! -- Andrei
Jan 19 2015
prev sibling parent reply "Mike" <none none.com> writes:
On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this: 
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. 
 See demo at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have 
 now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and 
 also with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page 
 tracking as mentioned in the pull request.


What are your primary concerns with the website?  I think it 
would help to know what you are trying to achieve.

Personally, although dlang.org isn't particularly pretty, I think 
its fine.  It's the unmaintained and unfinished content that's 
the real problem, not the aesthetics.  I've made a number of PRs 
to move "unofficial" content to the wiki so it could be better 
maintained there, and if not maintained, at least appear less 
official.  I believe dlang.org's lack of maintenance is partially 
due to the issues mentioned below.

I've tried to do some improvements on dlang.org, and its a PITA.  
If it were made more convenient, there would be greater 
participation from me, and likely others.  So, I offer the 
following suggestion:

1) Modify the build scripts and the instructions on dlang.org so 
that it's abundantly clear how to fork, modify, build, verify, 
submit PRs without having read verbose instructions and without 
having to clone and build dmd, druntime, phobos, and other 
repositories just to get an html page to verify an edit.  I would 
do this myself, but an important prerequisite to updating build 
scripts and documentation is knowledge, which I have yet to 
possess.  But someone in this community knows.

2) Aside from the documentation generated from the source code, 
why does the website need to be "built"?  IMO a static website 
like dlang.org shouldn't need any additional tools other than a 
browser and an image editor.  I may explore some options later, 
but only after 1) is done.

Mike
Jan 18 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 1/18/15 4:57 PM, Mike wrote:

 On Sunday, 18 January 2015 at 02:18:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I took the better part of today working on this:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/780. See demo
 at http://erdani.com/d/.

 What do you all think? Is it an improvement over what we have now?

 I'd appreciate your help with reviewing and pulling this, and also
 with improving the colors (which I'm terrible at) and page tracking as
 mentioned in the pull request.


 What are your primary concerns with the website?  I think it would help
 to know what you are trying to achieve.


Good point.

1. The site design/styling is old. Simply changing it is now necessary 
just as a refresher.

2. Of course, we'd also like things to be better. The chaotic navigation 
menu on the left was something I long wished to replace with a more 
modern on.

3. Part of my effort is to replace all manual html ad-hoc styles with 
styles in the css. That is invisible right now but will become very 
useful when we pass the site for improvement to a specialist.


 Personally, although dlang.org isn't particularly pretty, I think its
 fine.  It's the unmaintained and unfinished content that's the real
 problem, not the aesthetics.  I've made a number of PRs to move
 "unofficial" content to the wiki so it could be better maintained there,
 and if not maintained, at least appear less official.


Thanks!


 I believe
 dlang.org's lack of maintenance is partially due to the issues mentioned
 below. I've tried to do some improvements on dlang.org, and its a PITA. If it
 were made more convenient, there would be greater participation from me,
 and likely others.  So, I offer the following suggestion:

 1) Modify the build scripts and the instructions on dlang.org so that
 it's abundantly clear how to fork, modify, build, verify, submit PRs
 without having read verbose instructions and without having to clone and
 build dmd, druntime, phobos, and other repositories just to get an html
 page to verify an edit.  I would do this myself, but an important
 prerequisite to updating build scripts and documentation is knowledge,
 which I have yet to possess.  But someone in this community knows.


We definitely need to get that working. There are a couple of blocking 
issues (like the interference of local configuration files on the site 
build) but I trust we'll get over them soon.


 2) Aside from the documentation generated from the source code, why does
 the website need to be "built"?  IMO a static website like dlang.org
 shouldn't need any additional tools other than a browser and an image
 editor.  I may explore some options later, but only after 1) is done.


The short answer is because there's no robust inclusion and code reuse 
solution at HTML level.


Andrei
Jan 18 2015
parent reply "Mike" <none none.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 02:00:52 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:


 2) Aside from the documentation generated from the source 
 code, why does
 the website need to be "built"?  IMO a static website like 
 dlang.org
 shouldn't need any additional tools other than a browser and 
 an image
 editor.  I may explore some options later, but only after 1) 
 is done.


 The short answer is because there's no robust inclusion and 
 code reuse solution at HTML level.


Would it be a horrible idea to render DDoc in javascript?

Mike
Jan 18 2015
parent "Mike" <none none.com> writes:
On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 02:10:06 UTC, Mike wrote:

 On Monday, 19 January 2015 at 02:00:52 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:


 2) Aside from the documentation generated from the source 
 code, why does
 the website need to be "built"?  IMO a static website like 
 dlang.org
 shouldn't need any additional tools other than a browser and 
 an image
 editor.  I may explore some options later, but only after 1) 
 is done.


 The short answer is because there's no robust inclusion and 
 code reuse solution at HTML level.


 Would it be a horrible idea to render DDoc in javascript?


Answer, yes!  vibe.d is where it's at.

Mike
Jan 18 2015