• Georg Wrede (14/14) Jan 24 2008 Though unpleasant reading, somebody has to write this, too. (My
• Jarrod (2/2) Jan 25 2008 This topic has been raised before, I think a few times now. Walter
• Unknown W. Brackets (3/5) Jan 25 2008 Would you? Who wants to make plans for their own demise?
• MP (4/28) Jan 25 2008 I hope that never happens, but if it does ...
• Dan (7/12) Jan 25 2008 Yup, as soon as I get Walter waxed I'll be in charge. Yup yup yup!
• BCS (4/28) Jan 25 2008 Walter can cover my worries in two words: "Dealt with". No details needs...
• renoX (17/17) Jan 26 2008 I can't help but thinking about the numerous "Linus don't scale" or
• Christopher Wright (10/15) Jan 26 2008 If Walter dies, we'll all switch to GDC or llvmdc, but there will be a
• David Wilson (14/29) Jan 26 2008 I'd like to think we'd all be busily observing a moment's silence if
• Unknown W. Brackets (8/44) Jan 26 2008 I agree. I think the language's design is just perfect, and given that
• janderson (6/30) Jan 26 2008 I agree. This is one of the things that turns people away from D.

Georg Wrede <georg nospam.org> writes:

Though unpleasant reading, somebody has to write this, too. (My 
appologies to Walter, and to the rest of us.)


Painting Devils on the wall

What happens if Walter gets run into by a drunk, and is off-line for 6 
months? Or permanently??

Ideally there should be an explicit plan for such things. And it should 
be public. Some benefits:

o We'd all know what to do if it really happens

o Firms and corporations considering D have less one-man-show worries

o It simply is prudent

o "The accident doesn't come if you're insured"

o Initial time wasted on copyright issues, language goal etc. vanish

My sincerest appologies, again, for writing this -- but it really needs 
to be addressed now and not on some rainy fall day.

Jarrod <qwerty ytre.wq> writes:

This topic has been raised before, I think a few times now. Walter 
doesn't seem to want to comment on it =/

"Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:

Would you?  Who wants to make plans for their own demise?

-[Unknown]


Jarrod wrote:
 This topic has been raised before, I think a few times now. Walter 
 doesn't seem to want to comment on it =/

MP <dp mp.com> writes:

I hope that never happens, but if it does ...

"D's passed on. This language is no more. D has ceased to be. D's expired and
gone to meet its maker. ... This is an EX-LANGUAGE."

Sorry, couldn't help it. 

Georg Wrede Wrote:

 Though unpleasant reading, somebody has to write this, too. (My 
 appologies to Walter, and to the rest of us.)
 
 
 Painting Devils on the wall
 
 What happens if Walter gets run into by a drunk, and is off-line for 6 
 months? Or permanently??
 
 Ideally there should be an explicit plan for such things. And it should 
 be public. Some benefits:
 
 o We'd all know what to do if it really happens
 
 o Firms and corporations considering D have less one-man-show worries
 
 o It simply is prudent
 
 o "The accident doesn't come if you're insured"
 
 o Initial time wasted on copyright issues, language goal etc. vanish
 
 My sincerest appologies, again, for writing this -- but it really needs 
 to be addressed now and not on some rainy fall day.

Dan <murpsoft hotmail.com> writes:

MP Wrote:

 I hope that never happens, but if it does ...
 
 "D's passed on. This language is no more. D has ceased to be. D's expired and
gone to meet its maker. ... This is an EX-LANGUAGE."
 
 Sorry, couldn't help it. 

Yup, as soon as I get Walter waxed I'll be in charge.  Yup yup yup!
*cough*

Sorry man, I really couldn't help it.  There are just too many one liners for
this spot.

Nah, worst things worst, D goes and we have to progress from the GDC because we
don't have an open source back-end.  The code and discussion moves to
dsource.org or other.  I'm sure we'll all go "damn...." but D will be fine.

Regards,
Dan

BCS <BCS pathlink.com> writes:

Georg Wrede wrote:
 Though unpleasant reading, somebody has to write this, too. (My 
 appologies to Walter, and to the rest of us.)
 
 
 Painting Devils on the wall
 
 What happens if Walter gets run into by a drunk, and is off-line for 6 
 months? Or permanently??
 
 Ideally there should be an explicit plan for such things. And it should 
 be public. Some benefits:
 
 o We'd all know what to do if it really happens
 
 o Firms and corporations considering D have less one-man-show worries
 
 o It simply is prudent
 
 o "The accident doesn't come if you're insured"
 
 o Initial time wasted on copyright issues, language goal etc. vanish
 
 My sincerest appologies, again, for writing this -- but it really needs 
 to be addressed now and not on some rainy fall day.

Walter can cover my worries in two words: "Dealt with". No details needs 
as long as those involved know what to do. OTOH, he need not say 
anything at all.

renoX <renosky free.fr> writes:

I can't help but thinking about the numerous "Linus don't scale" or 
"What if Linus is killed by a bus" comments which used to be on lkml.

This was a real concern, but now using a distributed VCS, and a 
decentralised structure where Linus trust a few person which trust 
themselves other person etc, the Linux kernel now use contributions from 
hundreds of developers..

IMHO, D will either die or strive depending of Walter: if he manage to 
do a similar thing for the language, the website, the documentation, the 
library (and by this I don't mean Tango which started first by doing a 
Phobos incompatible library!! *) then D will be the next C++, if he 
doesn't then eventually D will fade away..

Note that I don't claim that this is easy to do: it took significant 
efforts for Linus to change his way of working and he could rely on a 
very involved team..


Regards,
renoX


* a big thank you to the dev who made Tangobos.

Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:

renoX wrote:
 IMHO, D will either die or strive depending of Walter: if he manage to 
 do a similar thing for the language, the website, the documentation, the 
 library (and by this I don't mean Tango which started first by doing a 
 Phobos incompatible library!! *) then D will be the next C++, if he 
 doesn't then eventually D will fade away..

If Walter dies, we'll all switch to GDC or llvmdc, but there will be a 
transition time while we search for people to run the project. We'll 
probably beg Andrei to get involved. Phobos, being licensed under the 
GPL, is safe. The Digitalmars website might be toast; I don't know its 
license.

It would be best for D if there were attractive alternatives to DMD at 
that point, and a stable language spec. The current system has everyone 
using the same frontend, and that doesn't work terribly well if Walter 
dies suddenly.

"David Wilson" <dw botanicus.net> writes:

On 1/26/08, Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> wrote:
 renoX wrote:
 IMHO, D will either die or strive depending of Walter: if he manage to
 do a similar thing for the language, the website, the documentation, the
 library (and by this I don't mean Tango which started first by doing a
 Phobos incompatible library!! *) then D will be the next C++, if he
 doesn't then eventually D will fade away..

 If Walter dies, we'll all switch to GDC or llvmdc, but there will be a
 transition time while we search for people to run the project. We'll
 probably beg Andrei to get involved. Phobos, being licensed under the
 GPL, is safe. The Digitalmars website might be toast; I don't know its
 license.

 It would be best for D if there were attractive alternatives to DMD at
 that point, and a stable language spec. The current system has everyone
 using the same frontend, and that doesn't work terribly well if Walter
 dies suddenly.

I'd like to think we'd all be busily observing a moment's silence if
something bad happened; in any case the fragmentation pissing contests
and potential "land grab" that may occur afterward would only result
in better competition, implementations, and perhaps even just, more
innovative futures for the language. Consider what happened with
NetBSD.

In any case the last thing I'd want to see is some sort of "design by
committee" backup plan. D as a language is a work of art, mostly one
man's art. The same with Phobos. Let's just appreciate the benefits of
this while it lasts*. :)

* I'd like to think, well into the foreseeable future for even the
youngest of us.


David.

"Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:

I agree.  I think the language's design is just perfect, and given that 
I've noted many things I think should change I wanted to note that.

Sure, it'd be great for people to be able to pick up if Walter decides 
to move on (which I hope is the end of his involvement in this project, 
not his death.)  But, people can learn from him and be involved in the 
process just fine without needing a committee.

-[Unknown]


David Wilson wrote:
 On 1/26/08, Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> wrote:
 renoX wrote:
 IMHO, D will either die or strive depending of Walter: if he manage to
 do a similar thing for the language, the website, the documentation, the
 library (and by this I don't mean Tango which started first by doing a
 Phobos incompatible library!! *) then D will be the next C++, if he
 doesn't then eventually D will fade away..

 If Walter dies, we'll all switch to GDC or llvmdc, but there will be a
 transition time while we search for people to run the project. We'll
 probably beg Andrei to get involved. Phobos, being licensed under the
 GPL, is safe. The Digitalmars website might be toast; I don't know its
 license.

 It would be best for D if there were attractive alternatives to DMD at
 that point, and a stable language spec. The current system has everyone
 using the same frontend, and that doesn't work terribly well if Walter
 dies suddenly.

 
 I'd like to think we'd all be busily observing a moment's silence if
 something bad happened; in any case the fragmentation pissing contests
 and potential "land grab" that may occur afterward would only result
 in better competition, implementations, and perhaps even just, more
 innovative futures for the language. Consider what happened with
 NetBSD.
 
 In any case the last thing I'd want to see is some sort of "design by
 committee" backup plan. D as a language is a work of art, mostly one
 man's art. The same with Phobos. Let's just appreciate the benefits of
 this while it lasts*. :)
 
 * I'd like to think, well into the foreseeable future for even the
 youngest of us.
 
 
 David.

janderson <askme me.com> writes:

Georg Wrede wrote:
 Though unpleasant reading, somebody has to write this, too. (My 
 appologies to Walter, and to the rest of us.)
 
 
 Painting Devils on the wall
 
 What happens if Walter gets run into by a drunk, and is off-line for 6 
 months? Or permanently??
 
 Ideally there should be an explicit plan for such things. And it should 
 be public. Some benefits:
 
 o We'd all know what to do if it really happens
 
 o Firms and corporations considering D have less one-man-show worries
 
 o It simply is prudent
 
 o "The accident doesn't come if you're insured"
 
 o Initial time wasted on copyright issues, language goal etc. vanish
 
 My sincerest appologies, again, for writing this -- but it really needs 
 to be addressed now and not on some rainy fall day.

I agree.  This is one of the things that turns people away from D.
Walter needs to assign a care-taker who can sort things out during his
absence.  Personally, I think Andrei would be the best candidate but who
knows if he would want the responsibility.

-Joel