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reply Justin Johansson <noreply jj.com> writes:
Just wondering how others rate Thunderbird as a decent newsreader.

My experience with Thunderbird is that it is not of a standard of 
distinction that one would hope for in 2010 coming 2011.

For one thing, and perhaps this is a newsgroup server problem, but I 
doubt it, my Thunderbird client shows a number of D NG topics as being 
unread though the folder tree item for d.D shows all items as read.

Aside from that issue, my experience with Thunderbird is that it is not 
particularly innovative in drawing my attention to the high-traffic 
topics apart from telling me that one-or-more responses are unread (as 
opposed to popular topics for example).

Overall I think Thunderbird is a bit lame as a newsreader for this day 
and age, and, though it owes me nothing and I paid nothing for it, I do 
wonder what others think of their NG experience using Mozilla Thunderbird.

-- Justin
Dec 16 2010
next sibling parent CrypticMetaphor <CrypticMetaphor88 gmail.com> writes:
I'm using Thunderbird, but it's pretty much the only newsreader I've 
ever had so can't really compare it with others. But I use the following 
extensions to improve my experience:

QuoteCollapse:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/347/

Not directly related with newsreading but still useful.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/12581/

I use other extensions as well but they are not newsreading related.
Dec 16 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Justin Johansson" <noreply jj.com> wrote in message 
news:ied4th$2vns$1 digitalmars.com...

 Just wondering how others rate Thunderbird as a decent newsreader.

 My experience with Thunderbird is that it is not of a standard of 
 distinction that one would hope for in 2010 coming 2011.

 For one thing, and perhaps this is a newsgroup server problem, but I doubt 
 it, my Thunderbird client shows a number of D NG topics as being unread 
 though the folder tree item for d.D shows all items as read.

 Aside from that issue, my experience with Thunderbird is that it is not 
 particularly innovative in drawing my attention to the high-traffic topics 
 apart from telling me that one-or-more responses are unread (as opposed to 
 popular topics for example).

 Overall I think Thunderbird is a bit lame as a newsreader for this day and 
 age, and, though it owes me nothing and I paid nothing for it, I do wonder 
 what others think of their NG experience using Mozilla Thunderbird.


FWIW: I tried Thunderbird breifly a few years ago. It seemed to get the job 
done, but there were a number of little annoyances that left me going back 
to Outlook Express. Let's see if I can remember some of them...(and again, 
like I said, "little annoyances", so obviously these aren't super-major 
issues or anything):

- When using "view messages in plain-text" (which I always use), it still 
converts *this* into bold (and removes the asterisks), /this/ into italic 
(and removes the slashes), and _this_ into underline (and removes the 
underscores). This really, really bugged me, but unfortunately there didn't 
seem to be a way to turn it off - despite the fact that it was supposedly 
"plain-text" mode.

- Many UI elements seemed to be rather big-n-chunky. Almost like a GTK app, 
although not quite as bad.

- There was a lot of invisi-text on my light-on-dark system. I seem to 
recall that it *was* possible to fix this, but it required manually hacking 
some obscure configuration files.

- I seem to have a vague recollection that the UI became unresponsive while 
it was downloading emails, but I may very well be completely wrong about 
that. I think there was *something* weird about when it downloaded emails...

I think there were some other little annoyances along similar lines, but I 
can't remember what they were. Granted, Outlook Express certainly has it's 
little annoyances too (a few people's NG messages show up as blank messages 
with the actual text in a text-file attachment, auto-quoting when replying 
doesn't always happen, and what I'm assuming are long GC collection cycles, 
and a few other things), but I found OE's annoyances to overall be somewhat 
less annoying than Thunderbird's.
Dec 16 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 but I found OE's annoyances to overall be somewhat 
 less annoying than Thunderbird's.


OE cannot back up or transfer its message database. That killed it for me.
Dec 16 2010
next sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:ieegkh$1mu9$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 but I found OE's annoyances to overall be somewhat less annoying than 
 Thunderbird's.


 OE cannot back up or transfer its message database. That killed it for me.


Yea, that has been in the back of my mind ever since one other time that you 
mentioned it. Been meaning to do somethng about it, but just been kinda 
sticking with it anyway while I have 100 more urgent things :/
Dec 16 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
 news:ieegkh$1mu9$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 but I found OE's annoyances to overall be somewhat less annoying than 
 Thunderbird's.


 OE cannot back up or transfer its message database. That killed it for me.


 
 Yea, that has been in the back of my mind ever since one other time that you 
 mentioned it. Been meaning to do somethng about it, but just been kinda 
 sticking with it anyway while I have 100 more urgent things :/


I procrastinated doing something about it for a long time, too, for the same 
reasons. Until one day my machine got hit with a virus, and the only way to get 
rid of it was to wipe & reinstall Windows. That was I think the 3rd time I lost 
my O.E. database, and I'd had enough.

T-bird has its annoying problems, too, but losing my mail database can have 
disastrous consequences for my business. I can back up T-bird's database, and
Dec 16 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:ieen8f$25sf$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
 news:ieegkh$1mu9$1 digitalmars.com...

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 but I found OE's annoyances to overall be somewhat less annoying than 
 Thunderbird's.


 OE cannot back up or transfer its message database. That killed it for 
 me.


 Yea, that has been in the back of my mind ever since one other time that 
 you mentioned it. Been meaning to do somethng about it, but just been 
 kinda sticking with it anyway while I have 100 more urgent things :/


 I procrastinated doing something about it for a long time, too, for the 
 same reasons. Until one day my machine got hit with a virus, and the only 
 way to get rid of it was to wipe & reinstall Windows. That was I think the 
 3rd time I lost my O.E. database, and I'd had enough.


Oh, I thought you were saying that the whole problem was just the whole 
proprietary storage format and that there wasn't a way to migrate to/from 
another email program. It *is* possible to backup and restore OE's DB, it 
just doesn't have a simple option for it through the UI:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/270670

Basically, for the messages, you just backup a certain directory, and 
there's a place in OE's options that will tell you the directory's path. 
There's also ways to backup/restore the address book and mail/NG accounts.

Yea, it would definitely be nice if it had a single simple button to backup 
everything, or a simple way to cron it or something, but it is at least 
possible to backup/restore OE's data.


 T-bird has its annoying problems, too, but losing my mail database can 
 have disastrous consequences for my business. I can back up T-bird's
Dec 16 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 Oh, I thought you were saying that the whole problem was just the whole 
 proprietary storage format and that there wasn't a way to migrate to/from 
 another email program. It *is* possible to backup and restore OE's DB, it 
 just doesn't have a simple option for it through the UI:
 
 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/270670


Microsoft had no mechanism for backup/restore at the time; I called their 
support center.

Having the mail database in a proprietary format in a hidden directory didn't
help.
Dec 16 2010
parent reply Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Thursday 16 December 2010 21:37:11 Walter Bright wrote:

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 Oh, I thought you were saying that the whole problem was just the whole
 proprietary storage format and that there wasn't a way to migrate to/from
 another email program. It *is* possible to backup and restore OE's DB, it
 just doesn't have a simple option for it through the UI:
 
 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/270670


 
 Microsoft had no mechanism for backup/restore at the time; I called their
 support center.
 
 Having the mail database in a proprietary format in a hidden directory
 didn't help.


Using IMAP solves the problem, since then the mail is safely on a server 
somewhere rather on your own computer. It also has the advantage of making it 
possible to sync state between machines. It does mean, however, that you have
to 
be deal with an e-mail account which is IMAP-capable.

- Jonathan M Davis
Dec 16 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 Using IMAP solves the problem, since then the mail is safely on a server 
 somewhere rather on your own computer. It also has the advantage of making it 
 possible to sync state between machines. It does mean, however, that you have
to 
 be deal with an e-mail account which is IMAP-capable.


I prefer to have control over my email database, and not rely on some remote 
server that may go dark at any moment, or that may sell my email database to
anyone.

Having my old emails has saved me countless $$$$ over the years.

You wouldn't believe how many times companies (even large ones!) have lost the 
contracts I made with them, and I had to go back through the emails and forward 
them copies.
Dec 16 2010
parent Gour <gour atmarama.net> writes:
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 22:41:05 -0800

 "Walter" =3D=3D Walter Bright wrote:












Walter> I prefer to have control over my email database, and not rely
Walter> on some remote server that may go dark at any moment, or that
Walter> may sell my email database to anyone.

I agree...that's why I fetch my mail with getmail and run my own
dovecot IMAP server on my (localhost) desktop machine.

The email is stored in (safe) Maildir format and accessed from
Claws-mail and/or via ssh from the laptop.


Sincerely,
Gour (not having trust in remote mail servers)

--=20

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: CDBF17CA
----------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 17 2010
prev sibling parent reply Justin Johansson <noreply jj.com> writes:
On 17/12/10 13:05, Walter Bright wrote:

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 but I found OE's annoyances to overall be somewhat less annoying than
 Thunderbird's.


 OE cannot back up or transfer its message database. That killed it for me.


Email clients and newsgroup readers are different things. So while I can 
understand that one would want to have control of their email message 
database (as in ease of backup/import/export etc), when it comes to 
newsgroup messages the repository is maintained by the newsgroup server 
itself (and of course these repositories are generally replicated ad 
infinitum on the web).  Accordingly it seems that comments like "That 
killed it for me" really only apply to email clients rather than 
newsgroup readers/clients.
Dec 17 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Justin Johansson wrote:

 Email clients and newsgroup readers are different things. So while I can 
 understand that one would want to have control of their email message 
 database (as in ease of backup/import/export etc), when it comes to 
 newsgroup messages the repository is maintained by the newsgroup server 
 itself (and of course these repositories are generally replicated ad 
 infinitum on the web).  Accordingly it seems that comments like "That 
 killed it for me" really only apply to email clients rather than 
 newsgroup readers/clients.


Except I use one for both, and when I can't back up my database, I lose all the 
marks saying which postings were read and which weren't.
Dec 17 2010
parent Justin Johansson <noreply jj.com> writes:
On 18/12/10 17:08, Walter Bright wrote:

 Justin Johansson wrote:

 Email clients and newsgroup readers are different things. So while I
 can understand that one would want to have control of their email
 message database (as in ease of backup/import/export etc), when it
 comes to newsgroup messages the repository is maintained by the
 newsgroup server itself (and of course these repositories are
 generally replicated ad infinitum on the web). Accordingly it seems
 that comments like "That killed it for me" really only apply to email
 clients rather than newsgroup readers/clients.


 Except I use one for both, and when I can't back up my database, I lose
 all the marks saying which postings were read and which weren't.


Oh, okay.  Fair enough.
Dec 17 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Gour <gour atmarama.net> writes:
On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 00:39:15 +1100

 "Justin" =3D=3D Justin Johansson wrote:












Justin> Just wondering how others rate Thunderbird as a decent
Justin> newsreader.

I use Claws-mail as mailer, news reader, rss reader...and I'm more
than happy with it.


Sincerely,
Gour

--=20

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: CDBF17CA
----------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 16 2010
parent Justin Johansson <noreply jj.com> writes:
On 17/12/10 06:34, Gour wrote:

 On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 00:39:15 +1100

 "Justin" == Justin Johansson wrote:












 Justin>  Just wondering how others rate Thunderbird as a decent
 Justin>  newsreader.

 I use Claws-mail as mailer, news reader, rss reader...and I'm more
 than happy with it.


 Sincerely,
 Gour


Thanks Gour and others for comments.

Just been to the website.  Reckon I'll try out Claws Mail and perhaps 
any other Linux clients that folks here recommend.

Cheers
Justin
Dec 16 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply sybrandy <sybrandy gmail.com> writes:
I personally like it a lot, though I haven't tried any other news 
readers on Linux.  I think the biggest reason I like it is the fact that 
it's the same regardless of what platform it's on and I also like the 
arrangement of the windows.

Overall, I've been quite happy with it.

Casey
Dec 16 2010
parent reply piotrek <starpit tlen.pl> writes:
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:06:20 -0500, sybrandy wrote:


 I personally like it a lot, though I haven't tried any other news
 readers on Linux.  I think the biggest reason I like it is the fact that
 it's the same regardless of what platform it's on and I also like the
 arrangement of the windows.
 
 Overall, I've been quite happy with it.
 
 Casey


You can try Pan some day. I prefer it to Thunderbird (it's really nice - in two
words).

Cheers
Piotrek
Dec 16 2010
parent reply Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
VIM users should be pretty psyched about this thing:

http://danielchoi.com/software/vmail.html

Although it doesn't seem to work for Windows yet so I haven't tested
it myself. :/

On 12/16/10, piotrek <starpit tlen.pl> wrote:

 On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:06:20 -0500, sybrandy wrote:


 I personally like it a lot, though I haven't tried any other news
 readers on Linux.  I think the biggest reason I like it is the fact that
 it's the same regardless of what platform it's on and I also like the
 arrangement of the windows.

 Overall, I've been quite happy with it.

 Casey


 You can try Pan some day. I prefer it to Thunderbird (it's really nice - in
 two words).

 Cheers
 Piotrek
Dec 16 2010
parent "Lars T. Kyllingstad" <public kyllingen.NOSPAMnet> writes:
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 22:11:15 +0100, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:


 VIM users should be pretty psyched about this thing:
 
 http://danielchoi.com/software/vmail.html


That looks pretty cool!  But for some reason the web page calls it an 
"interface to GMail", even though it seems to use IMAP.  Can anyone think 
of a reason why it shouldn't work with other IMAP servers?

-Lars
Dec 16 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:39:15 -0500, Justin Johansson <noreply jj.com>  
wrote:


 Just wondering how others rate Thunderbird as a decent newsreader.

 My experience with Thunderbird is that it is not of a standard of  
 distinction that one would hope for in 2010 coming 2011.

 For one thing, and perhaps this is a newsgroup server problem, but I  
 doubt it, my Thunderbird client shows a number of D NG topics as being  
 unread though the folder tree item for d.D shows all items as read.

 Aside from that issue, my experience with Thunderbird is that it is not  
 particularly innovative in drawing my attention to the high-traffic  
 topics apart from telling me that one-or-more responses are unread (as  
 opposed to popular topics for example).

 Overall I think Thunderbird is a bit lame as a newsreader for this day  
 and age, and, though it owes me nothing and I paid nothing for it, I do  
 wonder what others think of their NG experience using Mozilla  
 Thunderbird.


I tried the following newsreaders:

Outlook Express
Evolution
Thunderbird
Pan
Opera

Many of these systems had problems/features that I didn't like.  So far,  
Opera has been the best fit for me.  The only thing that annoys me about  
it is that my preferred browser is firefox, but it will only ever use  
itself to open links.

-Steve
Dec 16 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Christopher Nicholson-Sauls <ibisbasenji gmail.com> writes:
On 12/16/10 07:39, Justin Johansson wrote:

 Just wondering how others rate Thunderbird as a decent newsreader.
 
 My experience with Thunderbird is that it is not of a standard of
 distinction that one would hope for in 2010 coming 2011.
 
 For one thing, and perhaps this is a newsgroup server problem, but I
 doubt it, my Thunderbird client shows a number of D NG topics as being
 unread though the folder tree item for d.D shows all items as read.
 
 Aside from that issue, my experience with Thunderbird is that it is not
 particularly innovative in drawing my attention to the high-traffic
 topics apart from telling me that one-or-more responses are unread (as
 opposed to popular topics for example).
 
 Overall I think Thunderbird is a bit lame as a newsreader for this day
 and age, and, though it owes me nothing and I paid nothing for it, I do
 wonder what others think of their NG experience using Mozilla Thunderbird.
 
 -- Justin


For my two cents, all I can say is that I've been using Thunderbird for
eons, and whenever I have tried another client I've either found the UI
highly unintuitive, or worse yet unintelligible, or I've found it
pushing extra features on me that I have no use for.  (The old version
of Outlook I fiddled with for a short month comes to mind.)

I really don't use it for anything other than newsgroups, so I don't
care about anything to do with advanced message formatting (that usually
isn't quite compatible with other readers anyhow, in my experience) or
with many of the side features (such as personal calendars, which I have
other more specialized programs for).

There are a couple of clients mentioned in this thread I haven't tried
before (such as Pan) so I may be giving them a shot.  But... Thunderbird
has done the job for me, and done it well, for several years.

-- Chris N-S
-- Thunderbird 3.1.7
Dec 17 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org> writes:
On 12/16/2010 08:39 AM, Justin Johansson wrote:

 Just wondering how others rate Thunderbird as a decent newsreader.


In general I am happy with it. It has a couple of minor bugs or a 
feature missing that I want, but there's a lot that it does right. 
(Thanks to the person who recommended the QuoteCollapse add-on. This 
newsgroup desperately needs it.)


 For one thing, and perhaps this is a newsgroup server problem, but I
 doubt it, my Thunderbird client shows a number of D NG topics as being
 unread though the folder tree item for d.D shows all items as read.


Try right-clicking on the newsgroup and selecting Mark Newsgroup Read. I 
think the unread number you see might be from not downloading all the 
messages.


 Aside from that issue, my experience with Thunderbird is that it is not
 particularly innovative in drawing my attention to the high-traffic
 topics apart from telling me that one-or-more responses are unread (as
 opposed to popular topics for example).


In the columns list, there's a button to customize what columns to 
display. One of them is Total. If you collapse all threads ('\' hotkey, 
under View -> Threads on the menu), you'll get a count for each thread.

The above applies to version 3.0.
Dec 17 2010
parent Justin Johansson <noreply jj.com> writes:
On 18/12/10 13:41, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:

 On 12/16/2010 08:39 AM, Justin Johansson wrote:

 Aside from that issue, my experience with Thunderbird is that it is not
 particularly innovative in drawing my attention to the high-traffic
 topics apart from telling me that one-or-more responses are unread (as
 opposed to popular topics for example).


 In the columns list, there's a button to customize what columns to
 display. One of them is Total. If you collapse all threads ('\' hotkey,
 under View -> Threads on the menu), you'll get a count for each thread.

 The above applies to version 3.0.


Thanks for the tip; perhaps my "experience" was ill-founded.
Dec 17 2010
prev sibling parent reply torhu <no spam.invalid> writes:
On 16.12.2010 14:39, Justin Johansson wrote:

 Just wondering how others rate Thunderbird as a decent newsreader.

 My experience with Thunderbird is that it is not of a standard of
 distinction that one would hope for in 2010 coming 2011.


I suppose the real problem is that almost noone cares about newsgroups, 
so don't expect any improvements in this field to ever happen.  I'm a 
Windows user, and Thunderbird is the newsreader I use.

Thunderbird is pretty buggy, but I haven't found a good replacement, at 
least not yet.  I regularly experience to annoying dataloss bugs.  The 
first is when TB messes up posts.  This is easily fixed by making it 
rebuild its index files (yes, TB corrupts its own data files on a 
regular basis, with no help at all).  The second and worst is when it 
loses track of which posts I've read and which I haven't.  There's no 
way that I know of to fix that.

The real fix to this issue has to be that people stop using newsgroups 
and start using something else instead.  Maybe the D mailing list 
newsgroup mirrors are is the solutions, I don't know.  Should I bother 
trying, or would I just be replacing one set of problems with another?
Dec 17 2010
next sibling parent Justin Johansson <noreply jj.com> writes:
On 18/12/10 15:24, torhu wrote:

 I suppose the real problem is that almost noone cares about newsgroups,


I suspect you are right; newsgroups are probably considered by most 
developers as "legacy media" (not that legacy has to mean bad though) 
and accordingly any development for newsgroup software is not perceived 
as being a sexy application.  Still I will try out some of the other 
offerings that people have suggested here and see what goes.

Thanks again to all for comments.


 Thunderbird is pretty buggy, but I haven't found a good replacement, at
 least not yet. I regularly experience to annoying dataloss bugs. The
 first is when TB messes up posts. This is easily fixed by making it
 rebuild its index files (yes, TB corrupts its own data files on a
 regular basis, with no help at all). The second and worst is when it
 loses track of which posts I've read and which I haven't. There's no way
 that I know of to fix that.

 The real fix to this issue has to be that people stop using newsgroups
 and start using something else instead. Maybe the D mailing list
 newsgroup mirrors are is the solutions, I don't know. Should I bother
 trying, or would I just be replacing one set of problems with another?
Dec 17 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Gour <gour atmarama.net> writes:
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 05:24:14 +0100

 "torhu" =3D=3D torhu <no spam.invalid> wrote:












torhu> Thunderbird is pretty buggy, but I haven't found a good
torhu> replacement, at least not yet. =20

Although I may be guilty of repeating myself, but I'll, again,
recommend Claws-mail which serves as newsreader as well without any
problem.

Actually, 99% of all the mailing lists I follow are under Gmane and
Claws is superb...fast, no loss etc.


Sincerely,
Gour

--=20

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: CDBF17CA
----------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 18 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"torhu" <no spam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:iehd51$2gla$1 digitalmars.com...

 Thunderbird is pretty buggy, but I haven't found a good replacement, at 
 least not yet.  I regularly experience to annoying dataloss bugs.  The 
 first is when TB messes up posts.  This is easily fixed by making it 
 rebuild its index files (yes, TB corrupts its own data files on a regular 
 basis, with no help at all).  The second and worst is when it loses track 
 of which posts I've read and which I haven't.  There's no way that I know 
 of to fix that.


I don't mean to sound like an Outlook Express evangelist constantly banging 
an OE drum, but I've been using OE for years and never had any issues like 
that. Which actually makes me really puzzed, even though TBird's and OE's 
uses and basic interfaces are very similar:

- Thunderbird apparently has *data loss/corruption* issues, and yet it's 
very popular.
- OE *doesn't* have data loss/corruption issues, and yet it's widely 
looked-down upon.

So what's wrong with this picture?
Dec 18 2010
next sibling parent reply sybrandy <sybrandy gmail.com> writes:
 - Thunderbird apparently has *data loss/corruption* issues, and yet it's
 very popular.
 - OE *doesn't* have data loss/corruption issues, and yet it's widely
 looked-down upon.

 So what's wrong with this picture?


I've never used OE as, well, I preferred Thunderbird, however I've never 
experienced any data loss/corruption with Thunderbird.  Perhaps it's not 
the products themselves but something in the environment that's causing 
the issue?

The only thing that I can say definitively is that I did a quick 
DuckDuckGo Search for ["outlook express" data loss corruption] and 
["mozilla thunderbird" data loss corruption] (Search terms between 
brackets) and where the first search had a number of results discussing 
data corruption with OE, the second had far fewer.  Granted, this is not 
a scientific, but neither program can ensure data does not become corrupted.

On a side note, as for why OE is looked down upon, at least from my 
point of view any environment where different pieces of software are so 
closely tied together that it makes various types of virii very easy to 
create/propagate is not one I want on my system.  My word processor 
should not control my email client and vice-versa.  I'm the type of 
person that if I don't know that a piece of software is being installed 
by company sysops, I'll report a virus since I was unaware of the 
installation and I didn't do it myself.  And yes, I have done that.

Casey
Dec 18 2010
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"sybrandy" <sybrandy gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:iej200$30nv$1 digitalmars.com...

 - Thunderbird apparently has *data loss/corruption* issues, and yet it's
 very popular.
 - OE *doesn't* have data loss/corruption issues, and yet it's widely
 looked-down upon.

 So what's wrong with this picture?


 I've never used OE as, well, I preferred Thunderbird, however I've never 
 experienced any data loss/corruption with Thunderbird.  Perhaps it's not 
 the products themselves but something in the environment that's causing 
 the issue?


Hmm, perhaps so.


 On a side note, as for why OE is looked down upon, at least from my point 
 of view any environment where different pieces of software are so closely 
 tied together that it makes various types of virii very easy to 
 create/propagate is not one I want on my system.  My word processor should 
 not control my email client and vice-versa.


The worm issues were fixed ages ago. As for connections with word 
processor/etc, I haven't seen any indication of OE ever acting any less like 
a stand-alone app than anything else. (And actually, Thunderbird has a lot 
of ties to Firefox, AIUI). Maybe you're thinking of Outlook, not OE?


 I'm the type of person that if I don't know that a piece of software is 
 being installed by company sysops, I'll report a virus since I was unaware 
 of the installation and I didn't do it myself.  And yes, I have done that.


Heh heh, I like that. :)
Dec 18 2010
prev sibling parent torhu <no spam.invalid> writes:
On 18.12.2010 19:40, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 "torhu"<no spam.invalid>  wrote in message
 news:iehd51$2gla$1 digitalmars.com...


[...]

 I don't mean to sound like an Outlook Express evangelist constantly banging
 an OE drum, but I've been using OE for years and never had any issues like
 that. Which actually makes me really puzzed, even though TBird's and OE's
 uses and basic interfaces are very similar:

 - Thunderbird apparently has *data loss/corruption* issues, and yet it's
 very popular.
 - OE *doesn't* have data loss/corruption issues, and yet it's widely
 looked-down upon.

 So what's wrong with this picture?


IIRC, I decided against using EO because I wasn't satisfied with its 
keyboard navigation.  TB is has good keyboard navigation, bar a couple 
of bugs that you learn to work around.

I suppose the dataloss issues could be caused by my profile being old. 
Can't remember if I've tried starting with a new profile or not to fix 
the issues, but I think I have.  I wouldn't be surprised if the 
newsgroup implementation is buggy.  I guess I don't expect starting with 
a clean profile over again to actually help.
Dec 18 2010
prev sibling parent JMRyan <nospam nospam.com> writes:
torhu <no spam.invalid> wrote in news:iehd51$2gla$1 digitalmars.com:


 On 16.12.2010 14:39, Justin Johansson wrote:

 Just wondering how others rate Thunderbird as a decent newsreader.


 I suppose the real problem is that almost noone cares about newsgroups, 
 so don't expect any improvements in this field to ever happen.  I'm a 
 Windows user, and Thunderbird is the newsreader I use.
 
 Thunderbird is pretty buggy, but I haven't found a good replacement, at 
 least not yet.


For what it's worth, Xnews on a Windows is fairly decent.  I always found 
Thunderbird to be seriously ugly, but I haven't looked at it in years.  
Xnews is at http://xnews.newsguy.com/ .  Unfortunately, it is Windows 
only.

Someone suggested Claws-mail which I'll try when I get around to it.  It 
appears to have a Windows port as part of Gpg4win at 
http://www.gpg4win.org/ .
Dec 19 2010