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digitalmars.D - More phpBB like forum?

reply Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
Hi all,
Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.

However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.

To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.

At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
newsgroup.
Dec 08 2008
next sibling parent reply Gregor Richards <Richards codu.org> writes:
Dan wrote:

 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet)


Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?

  - Gregor Richards
Dec 08 2008
next sibling parent reply BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Gregor,


 Dan wrote:
 

 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet)
 


 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?
 
 - Gregor Richards
 


Oh quit being sutch a grouch /j <G>

We do REALLY need to get something better for the on line news page.
Dec 08 2008
parent "Saaa" <empty needmail.com> writes:
 We do REALLY need to get something better for the on line news page.


I know that for most "Blog" pops to mind while reading that 2.0 sentence.
But who can be bothered with the signing in just to blog your mood.
That is why I vote for an imageboard.

btw. bump
Dec 08 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?


Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
(better quoting, and image support) - something not available
in this current system.




 What about dsource?


Aha, so there is a forum. But case in point, I didn't know
about it. Okay, having a look at the main DigitalMars D site
I've just found a link to the dsource site, but it wasn't a
main link on the left side panel, so it's very easy for
newcomers to miss.

Except it's probably not meant for newcomers, as there's no
'help' forum there. But to have two seperate forums/lists is
a pain surely? Would it be good for them to be unified?
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:

 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?


 Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
 would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
 (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
 in this current system.


And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
big one for me - remote state.  I have two computers, one of which is
dual-booted, and I use lab computers as well.  A newsreader client
does _not_ work for me.  GMail + mailing lists is _okay_ but I'd
really prefer something that was really made for this kind of
discussion.


 What about dsource?


 Aha, so there is a forum. But case in point, I didn't know
 about it. Okay, having a look at the main DigitalMars D site
 I've just found a link to the dsource site, but it wasn't a
 main link on the left side panel, so it's very easy for
 newcomers to miss.

 Except it's probably not meant for newcomers, as there's no
 'help' forum there. But to have two seperate forums/lists is
 a pain surely? Would it be good for them to be unified?


The other problem with the dsource forum is that next to no one uses
it.  Notice the most recent post on there is from over a month ago.

It would be great to have a unified interface.
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent reply Chad J <gamerchad __spam.is.bad__gmail.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:

 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?


 Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
 would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
 (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
 in this current system.


 
 And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
 big one for me - remote state.  


...

/remote state/

YES yes yes.

This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.
Dec 09 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Chad J wrote:

 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> 
 wrote:

 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?


 Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
 would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
 (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
 in this current system.


 And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
 big one for me - remote state.  


 ...
 
 /remote state/
 
 YES yes yes.
 
 This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.


Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's 
another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to 
quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way 
to tell what you've read and what you haven't.
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent Kagamin <spam here.lot> writes:
Walter Bright Wrote:


 Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's 
 another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to 
 quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way 
 to tell what you've read and what you haven't.


You meant, there *was* no way, right?
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 Chad J wrote:

 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com>
 wrote:

 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?


 Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
 would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
 (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
 in this current system.


 And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
 big one for me - remote state.


 ...

 /remote state/

 YES yes yes.

 This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.


 Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another
 problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly
 scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what
 you've read and what you haven't.


Have you used a web forum?  They show you precisely what you have and
haven't read.
Dec 09 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter Bright

 This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.


 Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another
 problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly
 scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what
 you've read and what you haven't.


 
 Have you used a web forum?  They show you precisely what you have and
 haven't read.


Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* 
show you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and 
they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on 
before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the 
messages are expanded on one page?)
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show
 you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and they
 don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but
 not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded
 on one page?)


No no, those aren't forums.  Those are more or less glorified threaded
comments.  I'm talking about actual bulletin-board forum software -
phpBB, YaBB, SMF, etc.  Like the kind at dsource.
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent Janderson <ask me.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter Bright

 This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.


 Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's 
 another
 problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly
 scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to 
 tell what
 you've read and what you haven't.


 Have you used a web forum?  They show you precisely what you have and
 haven't read.


 
 Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* 
 show you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and 
 they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on 
 before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the 
 messages are expanded on one page?)


Some boards like the company I work for's "League of Lengends" community 
forum (forums.leagueoflegends.com) have several pages which makes it 
easier to find unread threads.  Also if there is a new post to the 
thread, that thread is moved to the top and marked as unread again.  Not 
quite what your asking for but pretty close.

-Joel
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Chad J wrote:

 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> 
 wrote:

 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?


 Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
 would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
 (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
 in this current system.


 And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
 big one for me - remote state.  


 ...

 /remote state/

 YES yes yes.

 This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.


 
 Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's 
 another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to 
 quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way 
 to tell what you've read and what you haven't.


Most (all?) modern forum software have several viewing options. 
Depending on the forum package, you may see things like: unread posts 
since last visit, all unread posts, all of your threads which which have 
unread posts, all watched threads which have unread posts and so on. 
Plus, there is usually a configuration option to email you when watched 
threads, or threads you are participating in, get new posts.

Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we 
had. The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I 
have no choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web 
interface sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I 
would much prefer a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] 
which I run on a game guild web site). Greater flexibility, more 
features and no extra software required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
Mike Parker wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Chad J wrote:

 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan 
 <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:

 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?


 Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
 would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
 (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
 in this current system.


 And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
 big one for me - remote state.  


 ...

 /remote state/

 YES yes yes.

 This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.


 Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's 
 another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way 
 to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no 
 way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.


 
 Most (all?) modern forum software have several viewing options. 
 Depending on the forum package, you may see things like: unread posts 
 since last visit, all unread posts, all of your threads which which have 
 unread posts, all watched threads which have unread posts and so on. 
 Plus, there is usually a configuration option to email you when watched 
 threads, or threads you are participating in, get new posts.
 
 Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we 
 had. The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I 
 have no choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web 
 interface sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I 
 would much prefer a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] 
 which I run on a game guild web site). Greater flexibility, more 
 features and no extra software required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.


[1] http://www.simplemachines.org/
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent Brad Roberts <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> writes:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Mike Parker wrote:


 Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we had.
 The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I have no
 choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web interface
 sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I would much prefer
 a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] which I run on a game
 guild web site). Greater flexibility, more features and no extra software
 required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.


Subscribe your gmail account to the mailing list and that'd allow you to 
stop using thunderbird.

   http://lists.puremagic.com/

Later,
Brad
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent reply Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
 and - the big one for me - remote state


Is it just me, or can't this be achieved by going to the "Web-New"
section at:
http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D

This is better than what I've seen before, as it's threaded properly.

Dan

Jarrett Billingsley Wrote:


 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:

 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?


 Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
 would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
 (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
 in this current system.


 
 And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
 big one for me - remote state.  I have two computers, one of which is
 dual-booted, and I use lab computers as well.  A newsreader client
 does _not_ work for me.  GMail + mailing lists is _okay_ but I'd
 really prefer something that was really made for this kind of
 discussion.
 

 What about dsource?


 Aha, so there is a forum. But case in point, I didn't know
 about it. Okay, having a look at the main DigitalMars D site
 I've just found a link to the dsource site, but it wasn't a
 main link on the left side panel, so it's very easy for
 newcomers to miss.

 Except it's probably not meant for newcomers, as there's no
 'help' forum there. But to have two seperate forums/lists is
 a pain surely? Would it be good for them to be unified?


 
 The other problem with the dsource forum is that next to no one uses
 it.  Notice the most recent post on there is from over a month ago.
 
 It would be great to have a unified interface.
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Daniel,


 and - the big one for me - remote state
 


 Is it just me, or can't this be achieved by going to the "Web-New"
 section at:
 http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=di
 gitalmars.D
 
 This is better than what I've seen before, as it's threaded properly.
 
 Dan
 


irconic as IIRC most threads that get broken here are a result of that
interface.
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:

 and - the big one for me - remote state


 Is it just me, or can't this be achieved by going to the "Web-New"
 section at:
 http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D

 This is better than what I've seen before, as it's threaded properly.


Not at all what I'm looking for.  Basically all I want out of a
"public discussion area" interface (whatever it is) is that I can see
what messages I haven't yet read.  The web-news interface does not do
that.

The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of
shit.  It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface
itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't
thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's
just broken in some areas.  For example, if you are on any board other
than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you
to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*.

Also, stop top-posting, unless you want to feel the wrath of one of
the people who feels it's their moral obligation to berate those who
top-post.  (top-posting is putting the quoted post after your own, if
you didn't know already.)
Dec 09 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of
 shit.  It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface
 itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't
 thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's
 just broken in some areas.  For example, if you are on any board other
 than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you
 to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*.


Is there a better one that's free, and has no administration effort?
Dec 09 2008
parent "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of
 shit.  It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface
 itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't
 thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's
 just broken in some areas.  For example, if you are on any board other
 than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you
 to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*.


 Is there a better one that's free, and has no administration effort?


None that I know of, and from some of the other replies the chances seem slim.

It sounds hackish but perhaps something could be set up through the
mailing lists.  They seem to handle things very nicely and have
archives back to at least the beginning of 2006.  The archives are
also auto-threaded.  I'm sure it wouldn't take long to set up a few
simple pages - or even to modify the mailing list archive viewers - to
allow sending NG messages as well as viewing them.
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent Janderson <ask me.com> writes:
Dan wrote:

 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?


 
 Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
 would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
 (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
 in this current system.


Of course you probably know that from thunderbird you can edit these posts.

-Joel
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent reply Kyle Furlong <kylefurlong gmail.com> writes:
Gregor Richards wrote:

 Dan wrote:

 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet)


 
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?
 
  - Gregor Richards


Actually Gregor, the opposite is true. You're implying that anyone 
should have a newsreader by now, but in fact, my generation knows little 
about newsgroups, since by the time we came on the scene the internet 
had passed them by in favor of html based forums.

Do a census of 26-19 year olds, even tech-savvy ones, and you wont find 
a significant portion with the capability or know how to browse newsgroups.
Dec 10 2008
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Kyle Furlong wrote:

 Actually Gregor, the opposite is true. You're implying that anyone 
 should have a newsreader by now, but in fact, my generation knows little 
 about newsgroups, since by the time we came on the scene the internet 
 had passed them by in favor of html based forums.
 
 Do a census of 26-19 year olds, even tech-savvy ones, and you wont find 
 a significant portion with the capability or know how to browse newsgroups.


When my dad was in the Air Force during the Vietnam war, they had to 
bring a bunch of prop transports back from retirement into service. They 
had one the mechanics just couldn't get the engines to run right on. 
They studied the manuals, and did everything they could think of, yet 
the engines just didn't put out the power they were rated at.

The Air Force finally dug up an old grizzled mechanic out of retirement 
to come have a look. He listened to them run for a moment, then fixed 
them up promptly. There's a lot of knowledge about those machines that 
never made it into the manuals.

Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz at 
16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(
Dec 10 2008
next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Walter,


 Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz
 at 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(
 


If anyone does, you can send it to the daily WTF.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
"Walter Bright" wrote

 Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz at 
 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(


I work mainly with writing tests/initialization scripts for x86-based 
systems for issues before my company ships them.  For some ungodly reason, 
most hardware vendors insist on providing DOS-only firmware loading tools 
and hardware testing tools for their components.  So we have a dos-based PXE 
boot which mounts a CIFS network drive with all the scripts and tools 
necessary to load firmware, run drive tests, etc.  Even network card vendors 
STILL provide network drivers for new cards in DOS!!!

Don't give up hope yet ;)

-Steve
Dec 10 2008
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:

 "Walter Bright" wrote

 Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz at 
 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(


 
 I work mainly with writing tests/initialization scripts for x86-based 
 systems for issues before my company ships them.  For some ungodly reason, 
 most hardware vendors insist on providing DOS-only firmware loading tools 
 and hardware testing tools for their components.  So we have a dos-based PXE 
 boot which mounts a CIFS network drive with all the scripts and tools 
 necessary to load firmware, run drive tests, etc.  Even network card vendors 
 STILL provide network drivers for new cards in DOS!!!
 
 Don't give up hope yet ;)


I get about one customer a year who asks me a question about the DOS 
capabilities of DMC.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent Brad Roberts <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> writes:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Kyle Furlong wrote:


 Gregor Richards wrote:

 Dan wrote:

 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet)


 
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?
 
  - Gregor Richards


 
 Actually Gregor, the opposite is true. You're implying that anyone should have
 a newsreader by now, but in fact, my generation knows little about newsgroups,
 since by the time we came on the scene the internet had passed them by in
 favor of html based forums.
 
 Do a census of 26-19 year olds, even tech-savvy ones, and you wont find a
 significant portion with the capability or know how to browse newsgroups.


Survey that same set and you'll also probably find a high percentage that 
can't:

1) describe what pointers are

2) describe how hash tables work

3) tell you any detail about how network routing works

4) describe how email routing works

...

The list goes on.  It hardly proves any point that there's a segment of a 
population that doesn't know how to do something.

I haven't yet seen a forum that does as good a job as email does for 
monitoring traffic in a discussion or set of discussions.  That includes 
nntp to a large degree.  I acknowledge that user requirements differ 
though.

I'd be happy enough with a forum that allowed me to configure my account 
to automatically send every message posted to my email address with proper 
threading headers and additionally handled properly me replying to the 
emails and having them show up appropriately via the web pages.  So far, 
I've not found that to exist (admitedly with rather little investigation).  
Most allow you to tag threads to be watched, but don't deal with new 
topics/threads/whatever.  And most don't support bi-directionality.

Given one that supports both of those two main features, all three of 
nntp, mail, and forum could easily be stitched together.  Setup the forum 
software, subscribe it to the mail lists I provide.  Those already gateway 
to/from the newsgroups.  Icing on the cake would be removing redundancy of 
data stores, but that's less important, imho.  Additionally, backfilling 
the duplicated datastores would be nice, but not required.

So, if you're passionate about using forum software, find one that meets 
the requirements and get it setup.  It doesn't need to be some mythical 
'someone' doing it on behalf of those that want it.  Do it.  Get it 
working.

Later,
Brad
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Janderson <ask me.com> writes:
Dan wrote:

 Hi all,
 Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
 phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
 the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
 parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.
 
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
 posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.
 
 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
 
 At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
 newsgroup.


What about dsource?

http://www.dsource.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=bf42f9a6c5dd6e1a22725d571610e216

-Joel
Dec 08 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Dan wrote:

 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.


http://www.osronline.com claims to have such a system for their forums. 
I signed up for it, but their server rejects my attempts to use 
Thunderbird's newsgroup reader on it, so I can't vouch for it actually 
working.
Dec 09 2008
parent Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
To be honest, this 'Web-News' system is almost quite good, since
it acts in many ways like a forum does. The only thing which bothers
me is not being able to view all posts in a single thread on one page.
I need to click each child to read further.

Also code formatting, and proper quoting would be nice :D


Walter Bright Wrote:


 Dan wrote:

 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.


 
 http://www.osronline.com claims to have such a system for their forums. 
 I signed up for it, but their server rejects my attempts to use 
 Thunderbird's newsgroup reader on it, so I can't vouch for it actually 
 working.
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Morusaka <morusaka inwind.it> writes:
As a newcomer, I think more has to be done to make info about D more accessible.
I'm thinking of what comes after one reads the first steps tutorial... and one
of that things could be a forum.

Luca.

Dan Wrote:


 Hi all,
 Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
 phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
 the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
 parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.
 
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
 posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.
 
 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
 
 At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
 newsgroup.
Dec 09 2008
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing I look for is a
newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have basically
no interest in web forums.

== Quote from Morusaka (morusaka inwind.it)'s article

 As a newcomer, I think more has to be done to make info about D more
accessible.
 I'm thinking of what comes after one reads the first steps tutorial... and one
of that things could be a


forum.

 Luca.
 Dan Wrote:

 Hi all,
 Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
 phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
 the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
 parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.

 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
 posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.

 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.

 At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
 newsgroup.
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent reply Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
Sean Kelly Wrote:


 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing
 look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that,
 a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.


I think you may be right. Apparently, there is (or was) a massive
division between the ASP.net forum and the official Microsoft ASP
newsgroup.

In the end, it would seem the primary advantages of newsgroups over
forums are speed and offline reading. As time progresses, I'm
guessing the second problem will be reduced greatly, and the first
problem shouldn't even be an issue, but somehow is.

I know that many phpBB-style forums (including phpBB) feel slothful
to post, refresh and generally navigate. It's almost as though
they're crawling over an encrypted https connection.

There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB.
But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over
newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread)
seem hard to ignore.
Dec 09 2008
parent reply Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Dan wrote:


 Sean Kelly Wrote:
 

 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing
 look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that,
 a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.






 There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB.
 But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over
 newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread)
 seem hard to ignore.


I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is
established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post
to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like
web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and
inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog
which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my
pleasure.

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 09 2008
parent reply Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
Hi Derek,
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but if there were
a forum which was very, very fast (much faster than phpBB,
actually let's say near instant) for posting/navigation, and also
was more economical in space (it's rarely said, but most standard
forums eat up 2 or 3 lines of real estate per thread!), could you
potentially prefer forums? It's not like these problems are
intrinsic to forums per se.

In other words, is it not conceivable that most of the primary
advantages of nntp could be transferred over, by looking, and
almost acting like nntp, but with a more centralized system that
forums offer?

Dan
Derek Parnell Wrote:


 On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Dan wrote:
 

 Sean Kelly Wrote:
 

 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing
 look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that,
 a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.




 
 

 There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB.
 But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over
 newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread)
 seem hard to ignore.


 
 I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is
 established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post
 to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like
 web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and
 inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog
 which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my
 pleasure.
 
 -- 
 Derek Parnell
 Melbourne, Australia
 skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 09 2008
parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> writes:
For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I 
have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.  I 
already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's 
incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than 
anything else.  That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the 
D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges.  Any use of forums by 
me would require an automatic email gateway.

Just my 2 cents,
Brad

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Dan wrote:


 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:14:32 -0500
 From: Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com>
 Reply-To: digitalmars.D <digitalmars-d puremagic.com>
 To: digitalmars-d puremagic.com
 Newsgroups: digitalmars.D
 Subject: Re: More phpBB like forum?
 
 Hi Derek,
 I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but if there were
 a forum which was very, very fast (much faster than phpBB,
 actually let's say near instant) for posting/navigation, and also
 was more economical in space (it's rarely said, but most standard
 forums eat up 2 or 3 lines of real estate per thread!), could you
 potentially prefer forums? It's not like these problems are
 intrinsic to forums per se.
 
 In other words, is it not conceivable that most of the primary
 advantages of nntp could be transferred over, by looking, and
 almost acting like nntp, but with a more centralized system that
 forums offer?
 
 Dan
 Derek Parnell Wrote:
 

 On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Dan wrote:
 

 Sean Kelly Wrote:
 

 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing
 look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that,
 a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.




 
 

 There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB.
 But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over
 newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread)
 seem hard to ignore.


 
 I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is
 established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post
 to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like
 web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and
 inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog
 which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my
 pleasure.
 
 -- 
 Derek Parnell
 Melbourne, Australia
 skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent reply "Denis Koroskin" <2korden gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:37:00 +0300, Brad Roberts
<braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> wrote:


 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I
 have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.   
 I
 already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's
 incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than
 anything else.  That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the
 D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges.  Any use of forums  
 by
 me would require an automatic email gateway.

 Just my 2 cents,
 Brad


For those of us who read all the messages that enter this newsgroup NNTP is
more useful, no one argues this.

But those users who visit digitalmars.D just to know if there are any
interesting topics discussed or to ask a question once in a while prefer
traditional web-based interface. In fact, these newsgroup have great amount of
useful information, but you have to fetch all the messages for doing a search
over them by a keyword (my messages cache is about 800Mb!). This is hardly
possible for a newcomer. OTOH, any decent forum has a search functionality
built-in.

I believe that both should coexist, but a better integration between them is
needed for sure.
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent reply BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Denis,


 On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:37:00 +0300, Brad Roberts
 <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> wrote:
 

 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I




Oh, Yes!! A system that doesn't provide a way to get a one stop shop for 
everything I'm looking at looses big time in my book. Something that informs 
me when new stuff shows up is even better.


 have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.





 For those of us who read all the messages that enter this newsgroup
 NNTP is more useful, no one argues this.


<nod/>
 

 but you have to fetch all the
 messages for doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache
 is about 800Mb!).


That's all? Real men have >2GB of posts! :b
Dec 09 2008
parent "Denis Koroskin" <2korden gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 02:04:16 +0300, BCS <ao pathlink.com> wrote:


 Reply to Denis,


 but you have to fetch all the
 messages for doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache
 is about 800Mb!).


 That's all? Real men have >2GB of posts! :b


Here is a screenshot with some statistics to prove myself:
http://tatarlar.rork.ru/stuff/printscreen_256.png
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Denis Koroskin wrote:

 But those users who visit digitalmars.D just to know if there are any 
 interesting topics discussed or to ask a question once in a while prefer 
 traditional web-based interface. In fact, these newsgroup have great 
 amount of useful information, but you have to fetch all the messages for 
 doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache is about 
 800Mb!). This is hardly possible for a newcomer. OTOH, any decent forum 
 has a search functionality built-in.
 
 I believe that both should coexist, but a better integration between 
 them is needed for sure.


There are the archives, updated weekly, at: 
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/

It even has search!
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
Hi Brad,
Good point I guess. While it's nice to have centralization for a forum's
posts, the kind of centralization you're talking about is extracting from
potentially multiple sites, and going to your inbox.

I suppose the only way to get the best of these worlds is for a
system to combine all wanted forums into one (personalized)
online dynamic mega-forum. Something like Google Reader maybe?

+speed, +1 thin line per (expandable) thread = bliss. There ya go,
the perfect forum/board/list/newsgroup ;) Sigh...

Dan



Brad Roberts Wrote:


 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I 
 have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.  I 
 already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's 
 incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than 
 anything else.  That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the 
 D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges.  Any use of forums by 
 me would require an automatic email gateway.
 
 Just my 2 cents,
 Brad
 
 On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Dan wrote:
 

 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:14:32 -0500
 From: Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com>
 Reply-To: digitalmars.D <digitalmars-d puremagic.com>
 To: digitalmars-d puremagic.com
 Newsgroups: digitalmars.D
 Subject: Re: More phpBB like forum?
 
 Hi Derek,
 I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but if there were
 a forum which was very, very fast (much faster than phpBB,
 actually let's say near instant) for posting/navigation, and also
 was more economical in space (it's rarely said, but most standard
 forums eat up 2 or 3 lines of real estate per thread!), could you
 potentially prefer forums? It's not like these problems are
 intrinsic to forums per se.
 
 In other words, is it not conceivable that most of the primary
 advantages of nntp could be transferred over, by looking, and
 almost acting like nntp, but with a more centralized system that
 forums offer?
 
 Dan
 Derek Parnell Wrote:
 

 On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Dan wrote:
 

 Sean Kelly Wrote:
 

 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing
 look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that,
 a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.




 
 

 There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB.
 But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over
 newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread)
 seem hard to ignore.


 
 I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is
 established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post
 to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like
 web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and
 inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog
 which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my
 pleasure.
 
 -- 
 Derek Parnell
 Melbourne, Australia
 skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:

 Hi Brad,
 Good point I guess. While it's nice to have centralization for a forum's
 posts, the kind of centralization you're talking about is extracting from
 potentially multiple sites, and going to your inbox.

 I suppose the only way to get the best of these worlds is for a
 system to combine all wanted forums into one (personalized)
 online dynamic mega-forum. Something like Google Reader maybe?

 +speed, +1 thin line per (expandable) thread = bliss. There ya go,
 the perfect forum/board/list/newsgroup ;) Sigh...


Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the
digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.
Dec 09 2008
parent reply BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Jarrett,



 Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the
 digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.
 


I'll trust him on that one seeing as more spam gets through my spam filters 
in a month than I've seen on the NG,... ever
Dec 09 2008
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
BCS wrote:

 Reply to Jarrett,

 Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the
 digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.


 I'll trust him on that one seeing as more spam gets through my spam 
 filters in a month than I've seen on the NG,... ever



It's interesting how the spammers don't seem to bother much with 
newsgroups that are not on usenet. Guess it's too old skool for them!

There was someone last summer who repeatedly tried to spam our n.g., but 
I'd delete them within minutes, and he gave up after a couple weeks.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply "Bill Baxter" <wbaxter gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Jarrett Billingsley
<jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:

 Hi Brad,
 Good point I guess. While it's nice to have centralization for a forum's
 posts, the kind of centralization you're talking about is extracting from
 potentially multiple sites, and going to your inbox.

 I suppose the only way to get the best of these worlds is for a
 system to combine all wanted forums into one (personalized)
 online dynamic mega-forum. Something like Google Reader maybe?

 +speed, +1 thin line per (expandable) thread = bliss. There ya go,
 the perfect forum/board/list/newsgroup ;) Sigh...


 Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the
 digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.


More than that, there's the little problem that Google is apparently
not interested in indexing newsgroups that aren't on standard Usenet
servers.

--bb
Dec 09 2008
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the
 digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.


 
 More than that, there's the little problem that Google is apparently
 not interested in indexing newsgroups that aren't on standard Usenet
 servers.


Except that they do index many of them, apparently on a case-by-case 
basis. They never replied to my repeated requests that they index our 
n.g., and after a while I thought perhaps that was best.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I 
 have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.  I


In my case, it seems wasteful to use a newsreader just to check the D 
ngs. I do everything from my browser except checking these newsgroups. I 
check all of my email accounts through gmail, I visit half a dozen 
programming forums, I check reddit for interesting stuff, and so on. If 
it weren't for these D newsgroups, I'd have no reason to open 
Thunderbird anymore.

In fact, before picking up D I hadn't used a newsgroup reader in years 
and didn't miss it a bit.


 already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's 
 incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than 
 anything else.  That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the 
 D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges.  Any use of forums by 
 me would require an automatic email gateway.
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
 I visit half a dozen programming forums


In fairness to NNTP, you'd only have to check your inbox in one place
rather than visit 6 different forums. That's where my "collate-bits-and
pieces-from-different-forums-and-merge-them-into-one-mega-
personalized-mega-forum" idea would come in useful if it existed.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Saaa" <empty needmail.com> writes:
  I visit half a dozen programming forums


Can I ask which those are?
(Check to see what I am missing :)
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Mike,


 Brad Roberts wrote:
 

 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that
 I have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is
 wasteful.  I
 


 In my case, it seems wasteful to use a newsreader just to check the D
 ngs. I do everything from my browser except checking these newsgroups.
 I check all of my email accounts through gmail, I visit half a dozen
 programming forums, I check reddit for interesting stuff, and so on.
 If it weren't for these D newsgroups, I'd have no reason to open
 Thunderbird anymore.
 
 In fact, before picking up D I hadn't used a newsgroup reader in years
 and didn't miss it a bit.
 


How long does that take you? I start two programs opening (TB and my NG reader) 
and go chat with my boss at the start of each day. A few minutes later my 
computer shows me a list of everything I care about (except the sudo-forum 
Stackoverflow) and I can cull through that an a mater of a few minuets
overhead. 
After that, I basically forget about it till something say I have something 
to look at.

Yes having more that one way to get your fix is wasteful but the first one 
to go for me is the /web based/ interfaces.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:

 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing I look for is a
 newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have
basically
 no interest in web forums.


Ah, those whipper-snappers with Twitter accounts!!

(Is there anything more useless than twitter?)
Dec 10 2008
next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Walter,


 (Is there anything more useless than twitter?)
 


Anything that can end with a hotfix from M$ is not useless!

http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2008/10/sql-2008-upgrade-tuning-for-stackoverflowcom/
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Sean Kelly wrote:

 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing I look 
 for is a
 newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have 
 basically
 no interest in web forums.


 
 Ah, those whipper-snappers with Twitter accounts!!
 
 (Is there anything more useless than twitter?)


If there is, I haven't seen it :-)  I try to stay somewhat up on trends 
just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what 
I'm doing from minute to minute.


Sean
Dec 10 2008
next sibling parent reply "Bill Baxter" <wbaxter gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Sean Kelly wrote:

 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing I look for
 is a
 newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have
 basically
 no interest in web forums.


 Ah, those whipper-snappers with Twitter accounts!!

 (Is there anything more useless than twitter?)


 If there is, I haven't seen it :-)  I try to stay somewhat up on trends just
 to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what I'm doing
 from minute to minute.


I think it makes a lot more sense if you are young and have basically
nothing useful to do with your time.
(but .. wait, Sean, wasn't your last post here just minutes ago?  :-P )

As kids we face the struggle of how to combat boredom.
As adults we face the struggle of how to get more of that thing we
used to call boredom.

At least that's been the case for me. :-)
--bb
Dec 10 2008
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 I think it makes a lot more sense if you are young and have basically
 nothing useful to do with your time.


I go jogging regularly, and in order to avoid being hit by cars I look 
at the driver to see if he sees me. These days, odds are better than 
even they're yapping on their cell phones. Even backing out of the 
driveway, they're on the phone.

I once read that one of the worst jobs in the world was to be a phone 
wiretapper. You had to listen all day to the crushing banality of 
everyday conversation.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:

 If there is, I haven't seen it :-)  I try to stay somewhat up on trends 
 just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what 
 I'm doing from minute to minute.


The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're 
drinking a cup of copy. bleh.
Dec 10 2008
next sibling parent reply Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:


 Sean Kelly wrote:

 If there is, I haven't seen it :-)  I try to stay somewhat up on trends
 just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what
 I'm doing from minute to minute.


 
 The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're
 drinking a cup of copy. bleh.


It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing
useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone
write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about
it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to
collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka
"just added the l33t feature foo too app bar".

A good or interesting twitter account will probably get very many followers to
show for it. What I find weird are those that themselves follow equally many
accounts (hundreds) - they have spare time issues :)

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango
Dec 11 2008
next sibling parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> writes:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:


 Walter Bright wrote:
 

 Sean Kelly wrote:

 If there is, I haven't seen it :-)  I try to stay somewhat up on trends
 just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what
 I'm doing from minute to minute.


 
 The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're
 drinking a cup of copy. bleh.


 
 It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing
useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone
write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about
it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to
collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka
"just added the l33t feature foo too app bar".
 
 A good or interesting twitter account will probably get very many followers to
show for it. What I find weird are those that themselves follow equally many
accounts (hundreds) - they have spare time issues :)
 
 -- 
 Lars Ivar Igesund
 blog at http://larsivi.net
 DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
 Dancing the Tango


While I don't use twitter either, it could be thought of as a pubsub 
broker with a rather bizarre api.

That some people feel the need to publish their drinking events, and 
others feel the need to subscribe to someone's drinking behavior.. well, 
to each his own.

However, since it really is a pub/sub system, it'd be interesting to look 
for interesting one -> many programatic use cases that could take 
advantage of it.

Later,
Brad
Dec 11 2008
parent Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 However, since it really is a pub/sub system, it'd be interesting to look 
 for interesting one -> many programatic use cases that could take 
 advantage of it.


I'm looking into creating a service bus with twitter as its transport 
mechanism. Unfortunately, I think it won't be terribly durable.


 Later,
 Brad
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Ary Borenszweig <ary esperanto.org.ar> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:
 

 Sean Kelly wrote:

 If there is, I haven't seen it :-)  I try to stay somewhat up on trends
 just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what
 I'm doing from minute to minute.


 The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're
 drinking a cup of copy. bleh.


 
 It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing
useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone
write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about
it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to
collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka
"just added the l33t feature foo too app bar".


In my workplace they used twitter for an humanitarian project:

http://code.google.com/p/geochat/

---
Geochat emerged from a simple concept - can I send an SMS message and 
see it on a map?

 From there the concept has evolved, and geochat has become a project to 
build a collaboration platform for the lowest common denominator 
communication tools, considering as highest priorities the needs of 
workers of humantiarian aid, international health and disaster response.

The main drivers for the project are the feedback of the InSTEDD 
programs in South East Asia, excercises such as GoldenShadow, and a 
growing community of humanitarian and health workers who spend their 
days in technologically austere environments. We invite anyone from any 
line of work to use and contribute user experience, technical, and any 
other kind of feedback.
---

And this is what Golden Shadow is about:

http://instedd.org/goldenshadow

:-)
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is
 nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on
 blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and
 neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many
 open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports
 from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added
 the l33t feature foo too app bar".


I just can't imagine real time reports of adding a line of code/feature 
to a product would be useful. The timescale is at issue - to add a 
feature to a significant product requires coding (which may take days) 
followed by testing (many hours). Would anyone be hanging on twitter 
waiting for this?

That said, twitter might be useful if you're at a conference and want to 
know where your buds are headed for dinner or who is right now giving a 
talk that is interesting.
Dec 11 2008
next sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshound1 digitalmars.com)'s article

 That said, twitter might be useful if you're at a conference and want to
 know where your buds are headed for dinner or who is right now giving a
 talk that is interesting.


There are some really interesting apps for the iPhone that integrate the
GPS features of the phone with messaging and whatnot.  Definitely very
cool if you live in an urban environment and want to keep in touch with
friends.


Sean
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent reply Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:


 Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is
 nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on
 blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and
 neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many
 open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports
 from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added
 the l33t feature foo too app bar".


 
 I just can't imagine real time reports of adding a line of code/feature
 to a product would be useful. The timescale is at issue - to add a
 feature to a significant product requires coding (which may take days)
 followed by testing (many hours). Would anyone be hanging on twitter
 waiting for this?


Actually, it is not about immediate notification - you can no longer receive
SMS I think for those you follow. It is more that a "busy" developer/person can
easily write a short note about the progress without it seeing out of place -
if you use a blog you are "obligated" to write a longer piece which takes more
time and thus is less likely that you do.


identifier, your message can be directed here and there depending on the topic.
As Brad say, it may be a bit weird, but it is very convenient for aggregating
short tidbits on a subject.

In case you are curious; my account ;)

http://twitter.com/larsivi


-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango
Dec 11 2008
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Actually, it is not about immediate notification - you can no longer
 receive SMS I think for those you follow. It is more that a "busy"
 developer/person can easily write a short note about the progress
 without it seeing out of place - if you use a blog you are
 "obligated" to write a longer piece which takes more time and thus is
 less likely that you do.


I have that problem with my Dr. Dobb's blog. A blog is shorter than an 
article, but lots of people have commented that my blog entries are too 
short. The problem with an article length one is, of course, the time 
involved in writing it. I also suspect that fewer readers would read it 
if it were article length.



 some name or identifier, your message can be directed here and there
 depending on the topic. As Brad say, it may be a bit weird, but it is
 very convenient for aggregating short tidbits on a subject.
 
 In case you are curious; my account ;)
 
 http://twitter.com/larsivi


I might just check it out.
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 In case you are curious; my account ;)
 
 http://twitter.com/larsivi


Oddly, I cannot add your name. Twitter insists that in order to add 
people, I must have an email address on hotmail.

Anyhow, my twitter account name is WalterBright.
Dec 11 2008
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Oddly, I cannot add your name. Twitter insists that in order to add 
 people, I must have an email address on hotmail.


Never mind, I figured it out.
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshound1 digitalmars.com)'s article

 Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 In case you are curious; my account ;)

 http://twitter.com/larsivi


 Oddly, I cannot add your name. Twitter insists that in order to add
 people, I must have an email address on hotmail.


That's weird.  I was able to add you by going to
http://twitter.com/walterbright and clicking "follow."

(I broke down and created a Twitter account today also)


Sean
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a
 cup of copy. bleh.


/me imagines Walter holding a cup filled to the brim with steaming hot
newspaper.
Dec 11 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Walter Bright
 <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a
 cup of copy. bleh.


 
 /me imagines Walter holding a cup filled to the brim with steaming hot
 newspaper.


I have to say, I'm not drinking coffee at the moment. Perhaps later 
today. I'll be sure and announce it here!
Dec 11 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Walter Bright
 <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're 
 drinking a
 cup of copy. bleh.


 /me imagines Walter holding a cup filled to the brim with steaming hot
 newspaper.


 
 I have to say, I'm not drinking coffee at the moment. Perhaps later 
 today. I'll be sure and announce it here!


I'm drinking coffee now.
Dec 11 2008
parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 I'm drinking coffee now.


Thanks for the update, but I was making a terrible joke on your
mistyping of "coffee" as "copy."  ;)
Dec 11 2008
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 Thanks for the update, but I was making a terrible joke on your
 mistyping of "coffee" as "copy."  ;)


I looked at that 3 times and didn't realize I had misspelled it that 
way. My brain is weird.
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Michael P. <baseball.mjp gmail.com> writes:
Dan Wrote:


 Hi all,
 Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
 phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
 the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
 parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.
 
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
 posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.
 
 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
 
 At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
 newsgroup.


Yes. Yes. Yes.
D could use something like this.
http://www.punbb-hosting.com/
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:
Dan wrote:

 Hi all,
 Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
 phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
 the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
 parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.
 
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
 posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.
 
 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
 
 At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
 newsgroup.


Maybe we just need a better web-news? I looked on sourceforge, and it 
doesn't seem like web-news is being updated, and there aren't too many 
great alternatives.

If there was one where you could register ()optionally - you should also 
be able to use it without registration), you could use that feature to 
save state (viewed posts), and give it whatever interface you like. A 
talented web programmer could even add in some AJAX-y stuff so it would 
notify you of new posts.
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Kagamin <spam here.lot> writes:
Walter Bright Wrote:


 Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* 
 show you what you have and have not read.


that (yes, crappy) thing is called "blog".
Forum is something like http://www.phpbb.com/community/
http://forums.invisionpower.com/
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/


 they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on 
 before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the 
 messages are expanded on one page?)


example of long thread
http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showtopic=277487
20 posts per page (number is customizable after registration). I think, the
main difference between such fora is administration facilities. Everything else
is highly customizable.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply dude! sweet! <dude sweet.com> writes:
wouldn't a web-based news-reader solve this problem? 
I've just did a little search and found: 
a) http://opensource.polytechnique.org/banana/
from the above site: "Banana is a fast (really fast) web-based NNTP library
with server side caching "
b) http://rubyforge.org/projects/ruby-net-nntp - a Ruby NNTP lib. How hard
would it be to create a RoR app with this lib already providing you an API to
access NNTP servers? Should be simple enough, I think.
3) for all the python lovers here - I'm sure an equivalent python lib exists
that could be used with something like django (or whatever the python
equivalent for RoR is).

2eurocent, please :)
Dec 11 2008
parent reply Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:
dude! sweet! wrote:

 wouldn't a web-based news-reader solve this problem? 
 I've just did a little search and found: 
 a) http://opensource.polytechnique.org/banana/
 from the above site: "Banana is a fast (really fast) web-based NNTP library
with server side caching "
 b) http://rubyforge.org/projects/ruby-net-nntp - a Ruby NNTP lib. How hard
would it be to create a RoR app with this lib already providing you an API to
access NNTP servers? Should be simple enough, I think.
 3) for all the python lovers here - I'm sure an equivalent python lib exists
that could be used with something like django (or whatever the python
equivalent for RoR is).
 
 2eurocent, please :)


We have one:
http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D
Dec 12 2008
parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Robert Fraser
<fraserofthenight gmail.com> wrote:

 dude! sweet! wrote:

 wouldn't a web-based news-reader solve this problem? I've just did a
 little search and found: a) http://opensource.polytechnique.org/banana/
 from the above site: "Banana is a fast (really fast) web-based NNTP
 library with server side caching "
 b) http://rubyforge.org/projects/ruby-net-nntp - a Ruby NNTP lib. How hard
 would it be to create a RoR app with this lib already providing you an API
 to access NNTP servers? Should be simple enough, I think.
 3) for all the python lovers here - I'm sure an equivalent python lib
 exists that could be used with something like django (or whatever the python
 equivalent for RoR is).

 2eurocent, please :)


 We have one:
 http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D


We have one that doesn't work right.  The idea is to create a _new_
one which does ;)
Dec 12 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Robert Fraser

 We have one:
 http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D


 
 We have one that doesn't work right.  The idea is to create a _new_
 one which does ;)


It's open source. You could fix it <g>.
Dec 12 2008
parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 It's open source. You could fix it <g>.


It's also PHP.. good luck finding someone who _wants_ to fix it ;)
Dec 12 2008
parent jcc7 <technocrat7 gmail.com> writes:
== Quote from Jarrett Billingsley (jarrett.billingsley gmail.com)'s article

 On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Walter Bright
 <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 It's open source. You could fix it <g>.


 It's also PHP.. good luck finding someone who _wants_ to fix it ;)


I wonder if some of the fixes would really take that much effort for someone
who's experienced with PHP. (I don't have much experience
with PHP, and I'm probably too lazy to find the time to work on it anyway.)

My pet peeve about the webnews interface is how sometimes the "Recent messages
in this thread" list gives links to the wrong newsgroup
(e.g., digitalmars.D instead or digitalmars.D.announce). I'm sure fixing it
would require wading through some code, but I suspect it
wouldn't be that hard to fix.

Another way that webnews could be enhanced is to have a link to the
corresponding post in pnews. For most purposes, webnews is superior
to pnews, but sometimes pnews is helpful too (e.g., header information). I bet
that'd be pretty easy.

Also, I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to get the fixes published on
digitalmars.com if I spent the time working on it. For example, the old "D"
newsgroup is still not available from webnews.
http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D&article_id=46629

By the way, after all these years, the http://www.opend.org/ website is still
"investigating how to hook the D frontend into the GCC
backend". Maybe someone should tell them about GDC. ;)
Dec 15 2008