digitalmars.D - More phpBB like forum?
- Dan (15/15) Dec 08 2008 Hi all,
- Gregor Richards (3/5) Dec 08 2008 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?
-
BCS
(3/12)
Dec 08 2008
Oh quit being sutch a grouch /j
- Saaa (4/5) Dec 08 2008 I know that for most "Blog" pops to mind while reading that 2.0 sentence...
- Dan (12/15) Dec 09 2008 Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
- Jarrett Billingsley (10/25) Dec 09 2008 And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
- Chad J (5/15) Dec 09 2008 ...
- Walter Bright (5/24) Dec 09 2008 Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's
- Kagamin (2/6) Dec 09 2008 You meant, there *was* no way, right?
- Jarrett Billingsley (4/33) Dec 09 2008 Have you used a web forum? They show you precisely what you have and
- Walter Bright (6/15) Dec 09 2008 Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not*
- Jarrett Billingsley (5/10) Dec 09 2008 No no, those aren't forums. Those are more or less glorified threaded
- Janderson (7/25) Dec 09 2008 Some boards like the company I work for's "League of Lengends" community...
- Mike Parker (14/39) Dec 09 2008 Most (all?) modern forum software have several viewing options.
- Mike Parker (2/43) Dec 09 2008 [1] http://www.simplemachines.org/
- Brad Roberts (6/13) Dec 09 2008 Subscribe your gmail account to the mailing list and that'd allow you to...
- Dan (6/39) Dec 09 2008 Is it just me, or can't this be achieved by going to the "Web-New"
- BCS (2/13) Dec 09 2008 irconic as IIRC most threads that get broken here are a result of that i...
- Jarrett Billingsley (16/21) Dec 09 2008 Not at all what I'm looking for. Basically all I want out of a
- Walter Bright (2/9) Dec 09 2008 Is there a better one that's free, and has no administration effort?
- Jarrett Billingsley (9/19) Dec 09 2008 None that I know of, and from some of the other replies the chances seem...
- Janderson (3/10) Dec 09 2008 Of course you probably know that from thunderbird you can edit these pos...
- Kyle Furlong (7/14) Dec 10 2008 Actually Gregor, the opposite is true. You're implying that anyone
- Walter Bright (12/19) Dec 10 2008 When my dad was in the Air Force during the Vietnam war, they had to
- BCS (2/5) Dec 10 2008 If anyone does, you can send it to the daily WTF.
- Steven Schveighoffer (10/12) Dec 10 2008 I work mainly with writing tests/initialization scripts for x86-based
- Walter Bright (3/16) Dec 10 2008 I get about one customer a year who asks me a question about the DOS
- Brad Roberts (33/49) Dec 10 2008 Survey that same set and you'll also probably find a high percentage tha...
- Janderson (4/22) Dec 08 2008 What about dsource?
- Walter Bright (5/10) Dec 09 2008 http://www.osronline.com claims to have such a system for their forums.
- Dan (6/17) Dec 09 2008 To be honest, this 'Web-News' system is almost quite good, since
- Morusaka (4/22) Dec 09 2008 As a newcomer, I think more has to be done to make info about D more acc...
- Sean Kelly (5/27) Dec 09 2008 I think there must be a generation gap here. The first thing I look for...
- Dan (15/18) Dec 09 2008 I think you may be right. Apparently, there is (or was) a massive
- Derek Parnell (12/21) Dec 09 2008 I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is
- Dan (14/40) Dec 09 2008 Hi Derek,
- Brad Roberts (10/61) Dec 09 2008 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull. A forum that I
- Denis Koroskin (4/15) Dec 09 2008 For those of us who read all the messages that enter this newsgroup NNTP...
- BCS (7/17) Dec 09 2008 Oh, Yes!! A system that doesn't provide a way to get a one stop shop for...
- Denis Koroskin (3/8) Dec 09 2008 Here is a screenshot with some statistics to prove myself:
- Walter Bright (4/14) Dec 10 2008 There are the archives, updated weekly, at:
- Dan (11/75) Dec 09 2008 Hi Brad,
- Jarrett Billingsley (3/12) Dec 09 2008 Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the
- BCS (3/6) Dec 09 2008 I'll trust him on that one seeing as more spam gets through my spam filt...
- Walter Bright (5/10) Dec 10 2008 It's interesting how the spammers don't seem to bother much with
- Bill Baxter (6/20) Dec 09 2008 More than that, there's the little problem that Google is apparently
- Walter Bright (4/10) Dec 10 2008 Except that they do index many of them, apparently on a case-by-case
- Mike Parker (9/17) Dec 09 2008 In my case, it seems wasteful to use a newsreader just to check the D
- Walter Bright (3/6) Dec 10 2008 Ah, those whipper-snappers with Twitter accounts!!
- BCS (3/5) Dec 10 2008 Anything that can end with a hotfix from M$ is not useless!
- Sean Kelly (5/15) Dec 10 2008 If there is, I haven't seen it :-) I try to stay somewhat up on trends
- Bill Baxter (9/25) Dec 10 2008 I think it makes a lot more sense if you are young and have basically
- Walter Bright (8/10) Dec 10 2008 I go jogging regularly, and in order to avoid being hit by cars I look
- Walter Bright (3/6) Dec 10 2008 The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're
- Lars Ivar Igesund (8/15) Dec 11 2008 It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is no...
- Brad Roberts (11/30) Dec 11 2008 While I don't use twitter either, it could be thought of as a pubsub
- Christopher Wright (3/8) Dec 11 2008 I'm looking into creating a service bus with twitter as its transport
- Ary Borenszweig (20/30) Dec 11 2008 In my workplace they used twitter for an humanitarian project:
- Walter Bright (9/16) Dec 11 2008 I just can't imagine real time reports of adding a line of code/feature
- Sean Kelly (6/9) Dec 11 2008 There are some really interesting apps for the iPhone that integrate the
- Lars Ivar Igesund (10/24) Dec 11 2008 Actually, it is not about immediate notification - you can no longer rec...
- Walter Bright (7/21) Dec 11 2008 I have that problem with my Dr. Dobb's blog. A blog is shorter than an
- Walter Bright (4/7) Dec 11 2008 Oddly, I cannot add your name. Twitter insists that in order to add
- Walter Bright (2/4) Dec 11 2008 Never mind, I figured it out.
- Sean Kelly (5/11) Dec 11 2008 That's weird. I was able to add you by going to
- Jarrett Billingsley (4/6) Dec 11 2008 /me imagines Walter holding a cup filled to the brim with steaming hot
- Walter Bright (3/10) Dec 11 2008 I have to say, I'm not drinking coffee at the moment. Perhaps later
- Walter Bright (2/14) Dec 11 2008 I'm drinking coffee now.
- Jarrett Billingsley (4/5) Dec 11 2008 Thanks for the update, but I was making a terrible joke on your
- Walter Bright (3/5) Dec 11 2008 I looked at that 3 times and didn't realize I had misspelled it that
- Michael P. (4/22) Dec 09 2008 Yes. Yes. Yes.
- Robert Fraser (9/27) Dec 09 2008 Maybe we just need a better web-news? I looked on sourceforge, and it
- Kagamin (8/13) Dec 10 2008 that (yes, crappy) thing is called "blog".
- dude! sweet! (7/7) Dec 11 2008 wouldn't a web-based news-reader solve this problem?
- Robert Fraser (3/11) Dec 12 2008 We have one:
- Jarrett Billingsley (4/20) Dec 12 2008 We have one that doesn't work right. The idea is to create a _new_
-
Walter Bright
(2/8)
Dec 12 2008
It's open source. You could fix it
. - Jarrett Billingsley (3/4) Dec 12 2008 It's also PHP.. good luck finding someone who _wants_ to fix it ;)
- jcc7 (12/18) Dec 15 2008 I wonder if some of the fixes would really take that much effort for som...
Hi all, Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards. However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame. To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone. At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D newsgroup.
Dec 08 2008
Dan wrote:However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet)Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out? - Gregor Richards
Dec 08 2008
Reply to Gregor,Dan wrote:Oh quit being sutch a grouch /j <G> We do REALLY need to get something better for the on line news page.However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet)Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out? - Gregor Richards
Dec 08 2008
We do REALLY need to get something better for the on line news page.I know that for most "Blog" pops to mind while reading that 2.0 sentence. But who can be bothered with the signing in just to blog your mood. That is why I vote for an imageboard. btw. bump
Dec 08 2008
Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.What about dsource?Aha, so there is a forum. But case in point, I didn't know about it. Okay, having a look at the main DigitalMars D site I've just found a link to the dsource site, but it wasn't a main link on the left side panel, so it's very easy for newcomers to miss. Except it's probably not meant for newcomers, as there's no 'help' forum there. But to have two seperate forums/lists is a pain surely? Would it be good for them to be unified?
Dec 09 2008
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state. I have two computers, one of which is dual-booted, and I use lab computers as well. A newsreader client does _not_ work for me. GMail + mailing lists is _okay_ but I'd really prefer something that was really made for this kind of discussion.Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.The other problem with the dsource forum is that next to no one uses it. Notice the most recent post on there is from over a month ago. It would be great to have a unified interface.What about dsource?Aha, so there is a forum. But case in point, I didn't know about it. Okay, having a look at the main DigitalMars D site I've just found a link to the dsource site, but it wasn't a main link on the left side panel, so it's very easy for newcomers to miss. Except it's probably not meant for newcomers, as there's no 'help' forum there. But to have two seperate forums/lists is a pain surely? Would it be good for them to be unified?
Dec 09 2008
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:... /remote state/ YES yes yes. This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.
Dec 09 2008
Chad J wrote:Jarrett Billingsley wrote:Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:... /remote state/ YES yes yes. This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.
Dec 09 2008
Walter Bright Wrote:Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.You meant, there *was* no way, right?
Dec 09 2008
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:Chad J wrote:Have you used a web forum? They show you precisely what you have and haven't read.Jarrett Billingsley wrote:Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:... /remote state/ YES yes yes. This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.
Dec 09 2008
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter BrightYes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded on one page?)Have you used a web forum? They show you precisely what you have and haven't read.This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.
Dec 09 2008
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded on one page?)No no, those aren't forums. Those are more or less glorified threaded comments. I'm talking about actual bulletin-board forum software - phpBB, YaBB, SMF, etc. Like the kind at dsource.
Dec 09 2008
Walter Bright wrote:Jarrett Billingsley wrote:Some boards like the company I work for's "League of Lengends" community forum (forums.leagueoflegends.com) have several pages which makes it easier to find unread threads. Also if there is a new post to the thread, that thread is moved to the top and marked as unread again. Not quite what your asking for but pretty close. -JoelOn Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter BrightYes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded on one page?)Have you used a web forum? They show you precisely what you have and haven't read.This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.
Dec 09 2008
Walter Bright wrote:Chad J wrote:Most (all?) modern forum software have several viewing options. Depending on the forum package, you may see things like: unread posts since last visit, all unread posts, all of your threads which which have unread posts, all watched threads which have unread posts and so on. Plus, there is usually a configuration option to email you when watched threads, or threads you are participating in, get new posts. Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we had. The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I have no choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web interface sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I would much prefer a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] which I run on a game guild web site). Greater flexibility, more features and no extra software required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.Jarrett Billingsley wrote:Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:... /remote state/ YES yes yes. This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.
Dec 09 2008
Mike Parker wrote:Walter Bright wrote:[1] http://www.simplemachines.org/Chad J wrote:Most (all?) modern forum software have several viewing options. Depending on the forum package, you may see things like: unread posts since last visit, all unread posts, all of your threads which which have unread posts, all watched threads which have unread posts and so on. Plus, there is usually a configuration option to email you when watched threads, or threads you are participating in, get new posts. Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we had. The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I have no choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web interface sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I would much prefer a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] which I run on a game guild web site). Greater flexibility, more features and no extra software required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.Jarrett Billingsley wrote:Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:... /remote state/ YES yes yes. This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.
Dec 09 2008
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Mike Parker wrote:Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we had. The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I have no choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web interface sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I would much prefer a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] which I run on a game guild web site). Greater flexibility, more features and no extra software required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.Subscribe your gmail account to the mailing list and that'd allow you to stop using thunderbird. http://lists.puremagic.com/ Later, Brad
Dec 09 2008
and - the big one for me - remote stateIs it just me, or can't this be achieved by going to the "Web-New" section at: http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D This is better than what I've seen before, as it's threaded properly. Dan Jarrett Billingsley Wrote:On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state. I have two computers, one of which is dual-booted, and I use lab computers as well. A newsreader client does _not_ work for me. GMail + mailing lists is _okay_ but I'd really prefer something that was really made for this kind of discussion.Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.The other problem with the dsource forum is that next to no one uses it. Notice the most recent post on there is from over a month ago. It would be great to have a unified interface.What about dsource?Aha, so there is a forum. But case in point, I didn't know about it. Okay, having a look at the main DigitalMars D site I've just found a link to the dsource site, but it wasn't a main link on the left side panel, so it's very easy for newcomers to miss. Except it's probably not meant for newcomers, as there's no 'help' forum there. But to have two seperate forums/lists is a pain surely? Would it be good for them to be unified?
Dec 09 2008
Reply to Daniel,irconic as IIRC most threads that get broken here are a result of that interface.and - the big one for me - remote stateIs it just me, or can't this be achieved by going to the "Web-New" section at: http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=di gitalmars.D This is better than what I've seen before, as it's threaded properly. Dan
Dec 09 2008
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:Not at all what I'm looking for. Basically all I want out of a "public discussion area" interface (whatever it is) is that I can see what messages I haven't yet read. The web-news interface does not do that. The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of shit. It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's just broken in some areas. For example, if you are on any board other than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*. Also, stop top-posting, unless you want to feel the wrath of one of the people who feels it's their moral obligation to berate those who top-post. (top-posting is putting the quoted post after your own, if you didn't know already.)and - the big one for me - remote stateIs it just me, or can't this be achieved by going to the "Web-New" section at: http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D This is better than what I've seen before, as it's threaded properly.
Dec 09 2008
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of shit. It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's just broken in some areas. For example, if you are on any board other than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*.Is there a better one that's free, and has no administration effort?
Dec 09 2008
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:Jarrett Billingsley wrote:None that I know of, and from some of the other replies the chances seem slim. It sounds hackish but perhaps something could be set up through the mailing lists. They seem to handle things very nicely and have archives back to at least the beginning of 2006. The archives are also auto-threaded. I'm sure it wouldn't take long to set up a few simple pages - or even to modify the mailing list archive viewers - to allow sending NG messages as well as viewing them.The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of shit. It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's just broken in some areas. For example, if you are on any board other than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*.Is there a better one that's free, and has no administration effort?
Dec 09 2008
Dan wrote:Of course you probably know that from thunderbird you can edit these posts. -JoelWaitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.
Dec 09 2008
Gregor Richards wrote:Dan wrote:Actually Gregor, the opposite is true. You're implying that anyone should have a newsreader by now, but in fact, my generation knows little about newsgroups, since by the time we came on the scene the internet had passed them by in favor of html based forums. Do a census of 26-19 year olds, even tech-savvy ones, and you wont find a significant portion with the capability or know how to browse newsgroups.However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet)Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out? - Gregor Richards
Dec 10 2008
Kyle Furlong wrote:Actually Gregor, the opposite is true. You're implying that anyone should have a newsreader by now, but in fact, my generation knows little about newsgroups, since by the time we came on the scene the internet had passed them by in favor of html based forums. Do a census of 26-19 year olds, even tech-savvy ones, and you wont find a significant portion with the capability or know how to browse newsgroups.When my dad was in the Air Force during the Vietnam war, they had to bring a bunch of prop transports back from retirement into service. They had one the mechanics just couldn't get the engines to run right on. They studied the manuals, and did everything they could think of, yet the engines just didn't put out the power they were rated at. The Air Force finally dug up an old grizzled mechanic out of retirement to come have a look. He listened to them run for a moment, then fixed them up promptly. There's a lot of knowledge about those machines that never made it into the manuals. Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz at 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(
Dec 10 2008
Reply to Walter,Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz at 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(If anyone does, you can send it to the daily WTF.
Dec 10 2008
"Walter Bright" wroteSomehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz at 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(I work mainly with writing tests/initialization scripts for x86-based systems for issues before my company ships them. For some ungodly reason, most hardware vendors insist on providing DOS-only firmware loading tools and hardware testing tools for their components. So we have a dos-based PXE boot which mounts a CIFS network drive with all the scripts and tools necessary to load firmware, run drive tests, etc. Even network card vendors STILL provide network drivers for new cards in DOS!!! Don't give up hope yet ;) -Steve
Dec 10 2008
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:"Walter Bright" wroteI get about one customer a year who asks me a question about the DOS capabilities of DMC.Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz at 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(I work mainly with writing tests/initialization scripts for x86-based systems for issues before my company ships them. For some ungodly reason, most hardware vendors insist on providing DOS-only firmware loading tools and hardware testing tools for their components. So we have a dos-based PXE boot which mounts a CIFS network drive with all the scripts and tools necessary to load firmware, run drive tests, etc. Even network card vendors STILL provide network drivers for new cards in DOS!!! Don't give up hope yet ;)
Dec 10 2008
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Kyle Furlong wrote:Gregor Richards wrote:Survey that same set and you'll also probably find a high percentage that can't: 1) describe what pointers are 2) describe how hash tables work 3) tell you any detail about how network routing works 4) describe how email routing works ... The list goes on. It hardly proves any point that there's a segment of a population that doesn't know how to do something. I haven't yet seen a forum that does as good a job as email does for monitoring traffic in a discussion or set of discussions. That includes nntp to a large degree. I acknowledge that user requirements differ though. I'd be happy enough with a forum that allowed me to configure my account to automatically send every message posted to my email address with proper threading headers and additionally handled properly me replying to the emails and having them show up appropriately via the web pages. So far, I've not found that to exist (admitedly with rather little investigation). Most allow you to tag threads to be watched, but don't deal with new topics/threads/whatever. And most don't support bi-directionality. Given one that supports both of those two main features, all three of nntp, mail, and forum could easily be stitched together. Setup the forum software, subscribe it to the mail lists I provide. Those already gateway to/from the newsgroups. Icing on the cake would be removing redundancy of data stores, but that's less important, imho. Additionally, backfilling the duplicated datastores would be nice, but not required. So, if you're passionate about using forum software, find one that meets the requirements and get it setup. It doesn't need to be some mythical 'someone' doing it on behalf of those that want it. Do it. Get it working. Later, BradDan wrote:Actually Gregor, the opposite is true. You're implying that anyone should have a newsreader by now, but in fact, my generation knows little about newsgroups, since by the time we came on the scene the internet had passed them by in favor of html based forums. Do a census of 26-19 year olds, even tech-savvy ones, and you wont find a significant portion with the capability or know how to browse newsgroups.However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet)Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out? - Gregor Richards
Dec 10 2008
Dan wrote:Hi all, Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards. However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame. To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone. At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D newsgroup.What about dsource? http://www.dsource.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=bf42f9a6c5dd6e1a22725d571610e216 -Joel
Dec 08 2008
Dan wrote:To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.http://www.osronline.com claims to have such a system for their forums. I signed up for it, but their server rejects my attempts to use Thunderbird's newsgroup reader on it, so I can't vouch for it actually working.
Dec 09 2008
To be honest, this 'Web-News' system is almost quite good, since it acts in many ways like a forum does. The only thing which bothers me is not being able to view all posts in a single thread on one page. I need to click each child to read further. Also code formatting, and proper quoting would be nice :D Walter Bright Wrote:Dan wrote:To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.http://www.osronline.com claims to have such a system for their forums. I signed up for it, but their server rejects my attempts to use Thunderbird's newsgroup reader on it, so I can't vouch for it actually working.
Dec 09 2008
As a newcomer, I think more has to be done to make info about D more accessible. I'm thinking of what comes after one reads the first steps tutorial... and one of that things could be a forum. Luca. Dan Wrote:Hi all, Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards. However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame. To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone. At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D newsgroup.
Dec 09 2008
I think there must be a generation gap here. The first thing I look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject. After that, a mailing list. I have basically no interest in web forums. == Quote from Morusaka (morusaka inwind.it)'s articleAs a newcomer, I think more has to be done to make info about D more accessible. I'm thinking of what comes after one reads the first steps tutorial... and one of that things could be aforum.Luca. Dan Wrote:Hi all, Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards. However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame. To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone. At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D newsgroup.
Dec 09 2008
Sean Kelly Wrote:I think there must be a generation gap here. The first thing look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject. After that, a mailing list. I have basically no interest in web forums.I think you may be right. Apparently, there is (or was) a massive division between the ASP.net forum and the official Microsoft ASP newsgroup. In the end, it would seem the primary advantages of newsgroups over forums are speed and offline reading. As time progresses, I'm guessing the second problem will be reduced greatly, and the first problem shouldn't even be an issue, but somehow is. I know that many phpBB-style forums (including phpBB) feel slothful to post, refresh and generally navigate. It's almost as though they're crawling over an encrypted https connection. There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB. But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread) seem hard to ignore.
Dec 09 2008
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Dan wrote:Sean Kelly Wrote:I think there must be a generation gap here. The first thing look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject. After that, a mailing list. I have basically no interest in web forums.There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB. But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread) seem hard to ignore.I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my pleasure. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 09 2008
Hi Derek, I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but if there were a forum which was very, very fast (much faster than phpBB, actually let's say near instant) for posting/navigation, and also was more economical in space (it's rarely said, but most standard forums eat up 2 or 3 lines of real estate per thread!), could you potentially prefer forums? It's not like these problems are intrinsic to forums per se. In other words, is it not conceivable that most of the primary advantages of nntp could be transferred over, by looking, and almost acting like nntp, but with a more centralized system that forums offer? Dan Derek Parnell Wrote:On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Dan wrote:Sean Kelly Wrote:I think there must be a generation gap here. The first thing look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject. After that, a mailing list. I have basically no interest in web forums.There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB. But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread) seem hard to ignore.I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my pleasure. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 09 2008
For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull. A forum that I have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful. I already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than anything else. That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges. Any use of forums by me would require an automatic email gateway. Just my 2 cents, Brad On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Dan wrote:Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:14:32 -0500 From: Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> Reply-To: digitalmars.D <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> To: digitalmars-d puremagic.com Newsgroups: digitalmars.D Subject: Re: More phpBB like forum? Hi Derek, I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but if there were a forum which was very, very fast (much faster than phpBB, actually let's say near instant) for posting/navigation, and also was more economical in space (it's rarely said, but most standard forums eat up 2 or 3 lines of real estate per thread!), could you potentially prefer forums? It's not like these problems are intrinsic to forums per se. In other words, is it not conceivable that most of the primary advantages of nntp could be transferred over, by looking, and almost acting like nntp, but with a more centralized system that forums offer? Dan Derek Parnell Wrote:On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Dan wrote:Sean Kelly Wrote:I think there must be a generation gap here. The first thing look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject. After that, a mailing list. I have basically no interest in web forums.There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB. But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread) seem hard to ignore.I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my pleasure. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 09 2008
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:37:00 +0300, Brad Roberts <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> wrote:For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull. A forum that I have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful. I already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than anything else. That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges. Any use of forums by me would require an automatic email gateway. Just my 2 cents, BradFor those of us who read all the messages that enter this newsgroup NNTP is more useful, no one argues this. But those users who visit digitalmars.D just to know if there are any interesting topics discussed or to ask a question once in a while prefer traditional web-based interface. In fact, these newsgroup have great amount of useful information, but you have to fetch all the messages for doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache is about 800Mb!). This is hardly possible for a newcomer. OTOH, any decent forum has a search functionality built-in. I believe that both should coexist, but a better integration between them is needed for sure.
Dec 09 2008
Reply to Denis,On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:37:00 +0300, Brad Roberts <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> wrote:Oh, Yes!! A system that doesn't provide a way to get a one stop shop for everything I'm looking at looses big time in my book. Something that informs me when new stuff shows up is even better.For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull. A forum that Ihave to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.For those of us who read all the messages that enter this newsgroup NNTP is more useful, no one argues this.<nod/>but you have to fetch all the messages for doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache is about 800Mb!).That's all? Real men have >2GB of posts! :b
Dec 09 2008
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 02:04:16 +0300, BCS <ao pathlink.com> wrote:Reply to Denis,Here is a screenshot with some statistics to prove myself: http://tatarlar.rork.ru/stuff/printscreen_256.pngbut you have to fetch all the messages for doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache is about 800Mb!).That's all? Real men have >2GB of posts! :b
Dec 09 2008
Denis Koroskin wrote:But those users who visit digitalmars.D just to know if there are any interesting topics discussed or to ask a question once in a while prefer traditional web-based interface. In fact, these newsgroup have great amount of useful information, but you have to fetch all the messages for doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache is about 800Mb!). This is hardly possible for a newcomer. OTOH, any decent forum has a search functionality built-in. I believe that both should coexist, but a better integration between them is needed for sure.There are the archives, updated weekly, at: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/ It even has search!
Dec 10 2008
Hi Brad, Good point I guess. While it's nice to have centralization for a forum's posts, the kind of centralization you're talking about is extracting from potentially multiple sites, and going to your inbox. I suppose the only way to get the best of these worlds is for a system to combine all wanted forums into one (personalized) online dynamic mega-forum. Something like Google Reader maybe? +speed, +1 thin line per (expandable) thread = bliss. There ya go, the perfect forum/board/list/newsgroup ;) Sigh... Dan Brad Roberts Wrote:For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull. A forum that I have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful. I already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than anything else. That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges. Any use of forums by me would require an automatic email gateway. Just my 2 cents, Brad On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Dan wrote:Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:14:32 -0500 From: Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> Reply-To: digitalmars.D <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> To: digitalmars-d puremagic.com Newsgroups: digitalmars.D Subject: Re: More phpBB like forum? Hi Derek, I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but if there were a forum which was very, very fast (much faster than phpBB, actually let's say near instant) for posting/navigation, and also was more economical in space (it's rarely said, but most standard forums eat up 2 or 3 lines of real estate per thread!), could you potentially prefer forums? It's not like these problems are intrinsic to forums per se. In other words, is it not conceivable that most of the primary advantages of nntp could be transferred over, by looking, and almost acting like nntp, but with a more centralized system that forums offer? Dan Derek Parnell Wrote:On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Dan wrote:Sean Kelly Wrote:I think there must be a generation gap here. The first thing look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject. After that, a mailing list. I have basically no interest in web forums.There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB. But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread) seem hard to ignore.I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my pleasure. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 09 2008
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:Hi Brad, Good point I guess. While it's nice to have centralization for a forum's posts, the kind of centralization you're talking about is extracting from potentially multiple sites, and going to your inbox. I suppose the only way to get the best of these worlds is for a system to combine all wanted forums into one (personalized) online dynamic mega-forum. Something like Google Reader maybe? +speed, +1 thin line per (expandable) thread = bliss. There ya go, the perfect forum/board/list/newsgroup ;) Sigh...Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.
Dec 09 2008
Reply to Jarrett,Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.I'll trust him on that one seeing as more spam gets through my spam filters in a month than I've seen on the NG,... ever
Dec 09 2008
BCS wrote:Reply to Jarrett,It's interesting how the spammers don't seem to bother much with newsgroups that are not on usenet. Guess it's too old skool for them! There was someone last summer who repeatedly tried to spam our n.g., but I'd delete them within minutes, and he gave up after a couple weeks.Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.I'll trust him on that one seeing as more spam gets through my spam filters in a month than I've seen on the NG,... ever
Dec 10 2008
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Jarrett Billingsley <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> wrote:On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Dan <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:More than that, there's the little problem that Google is apparently not interested in indexing newsgroups that aren't on standard Usenet servers. --bbHi Brad, Good point I guess. While it's nice to have centralization for a forum's posts, the kind of centralization you're talking about is extracting from potentially multiple sites, and going to your inbox. I suppose the only way to get the best of these worlds is for a system to combine all wanted forums into one (personalized) online dynamic mega-forum. Something like Google Reader maybe? +speed, +1 thin line per (expandable) thread = bliss. There ya go, the perfect forum/board/list/newsgroup ;) Sigh...Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.
Dec 09 2008
Bill Baxter wrote:Except that they do index many of them, apparently on a case-by-case basis. They never replied to my repeated requests that they index our n.g., and after a while I thought perhaps that was best.Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.More than that, there's the little problem that Google is apparently not interested in indexing newsgroups that aren't on standard Usenet servers.
Dec 10 2008
Brad Roberts wrote:For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull. A forum that I have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful. IIn my case, it seems wasteful to use a newsreader just to check the D ngs. I do everything from my browser except checking these newsgroups. I check all of my email accounts through gmail, I visit half a dozen programming forums, I check reddit for interesting stuff, and so on. If it weren't for these D newsgroups, I'd have no reason to open Thunderbird anymore. In fact, before picking up D I hadn't used a newsgroup reader in years and didn't miss it a bit.already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than anything else. That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges. Any use of forums by me would require an automatic email gateway.
Dec 09 2008
I visit half a dozen programming forumsIn fairness to NNTP, you'd only have to check your inbox in one place rather than visit 6 different forums. That's where my "collate-bits-and pieces-from-different-forums-and-merge-them-into-one-mega- personalized-mega-forum" idea would come in useful if it existed.
Dec 10 2008
I visit half a dozen programming forumsCan I ask which those are? (Check to see what I am missing :)
Dec 10 2008
Reply to Mike,Brad Roberts wrote:How long does that take you? I start two programs opening (TB and my NG reader) and go chat with my boss at the start of each day. A few minutes later my computer shows me a list of everything I care about (except the sudo-forum Stackoverflow) and I can cull through that an a mater of a few minuets overhead. After that, I basically forget about it till something say I have something to look at. Yes having more that one way to get your fix is wasteful but the first one to go for me is the /web based/ interfaces.For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull. A forum that I have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful. IIn my case, it seems wasteful to use a newsreader just to check the D ngs. I do everything from my browser except checking these newsgroups. I check all of my email accounts through gmail, I visit half a dozen programming forums, I check reddit for interesting stuff, and so on. If it weren't for these D newsgroups, I'd have no reason to open Thunderbird anymore. In fact, before picking up D I hadn't used a newsgroup reader in years and didn't miss it a bit.
Dec 10 2008
Sean Kelly wrote:I think there must be a generation gap here. The first thing I look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject. After that, a mailing list. I have basically no interest in web forums.Ah, those whipper-snappers with Twitter accounts!! (Is there anything more useless than twitter?)
Dec 10 2008
Reply to Walter,(Is there anything more useless than twitter?)Anything that can end with a hotfix from M$ is not useless! http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2008/10/sql-2008-upgrade-tuning-for-stackoverflowcom/
Dec 10 2008
Walter Bright wrote:Sean Kelly wrote:If there is, I haven't seen it :-) I try to stay somewhat up on trends just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what I'm doing from minute to minute. SeanI think there must be a generation gap here. The first thing I look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject. After that, a mailing list. I have basically no interest in web forums.Ah, those whipper-snappers with Twitter accounts!! (Is there anything more useless than twitter?)
Dec 10 2008
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> wrote:Walter Bright wrote:I think it makes a lot more sense if you are young and have basically nothing useful to do with your time. (but .. wait, Sean, wasn't your last post here just minutes ago? :-P ) As kids we face the struggle of how to combat boredom. As adults we face the struggle of how to get more of that thing we used to call boredom. At least that's been the case for me. :-) --bbSean Kelly wrote:If there is, I haven't seen it :-) I try to stay somewhat up on trends just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what I'm doing from minute to minute.I think there must be a generation gap here. The first thing I look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject. After that, a mailing list. I have basically no interest in web forums.Ah, those whipper-snappers with Twitter accounts!! (Is there anything more useless than twitter?)
Dec 10 2008
Bill Baxter wrote:I think it makes a lot more sense if you are young and have basically nothing useful to do with your time.I go jogging regularly, and in order to avoid being hit by cars I look at the driver to see if he sees me. These days, odds are better than even they're yapping on their cell phones. Even backing out of the driveway, they're on the phone. I once read that one of the worst jobs in the world was to be a phone wiretapper. You had to listen all day to the crushing banality of everyday conversation.
Dec 10 2008
Sean Kelly wrote:If there is, I haven't seen it :-) I try to stay somewhat up on trends just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what I'm doing from minute to minute.The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a cup of copy. bleh.
Dec 10 2008
Walter Bright wrote:Sean Kelly wrote:It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added the l33t feature foo too app bar". A good or interesting twitter account will probably get very many followers to show for it. What I find weird are those that themselves follow equally many accounts (hundreds) - they have spare time issues :) -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the TangoIf there is, I haven't seen it :-) I try to stay somewhat up on trends just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what I'm doing from minute to minute.The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a cup of copy. bleh.
Dec 11 2008
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:Walter Bright wrote:While I don't use twitter either, it could be thought of as a pubsub broker with a rather bizarre api. That some people feel the need to publish their drinking events, and others feel the need to subscribe to someone's drinking behavior.. well, to each his own. However, since it really is a pub/sub system, it'd be interesting to look for interesting one -> many programatic use cases that could take advantage of it. Later, BradSean Kelly wrote:It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added the l33t feature foo too app bar". A good or interesting twitter account will probably get very many followers to show for it. What I find weird are those that themselves follow equally many accounts (hundreds) - they have spare time issues :) -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the TangoIf there is, I haven't seen it :-) I try to stay somewhat up on trends just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what I'm doing from minute to minute.The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a cup of copy. bleh.
Dec 11 2008
Brad Roberts wrote:However, since it really is a pub/sub system, it'd be interesting to look for interesting one -> many programatic use cases that could take advantage of it.I'm looking into creating a service bus with twitter as its transport mechanism. Unfortunately, I think it won't be terribly durable.Later, Brad
Dec 11 2008
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:Walter Bright wrote:In my workplace they used twitter for an humanitarian project: http://code.google.com/p/geochat/ --- Geochat emerged from a simple concept - can I send an SMS message and see it on a map? From there the concept has evolved, and geochat has become a project to build a collaboration platform for the lowest common denominator communication tools, considering as highest priorities the needs of workers of humantiarian aid, international health and disaster response. The main drivers for the project are the feedback of the InSTEDD programs in South East Asia, excercises such as GoldenShadow, and a growing community of humanitarian and health workers who spend their days in technologically austere environments. We invite anyone from any line of work to use and contribute user experience, technical, and any other kind of feedback. --- And this is what Golden Shadow is about: http://instedd.org/goldenshadow :-)Sean Kelly wrote:It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added the l33t feature foo too app bar".If there is, I haven't seen it :-) I try to stay somewhat up on trends just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what I'm doing from minute to minute.The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a cup of copy. bleh.
Dec 11 2008
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added the l33t feature foo too app bar".I just can't imagine real time reports of adding a line of code/feature to a product would be useful. The timescale is at issue - to add a feature to a significant product requires coding (which may take days) followed by testing (many hours). Would anyone be hanging on twitter waiting for this? That said, twitter might be useful if you're at a conference and want to know where your buds are headed for dinner or who is right now giving a talk that is interesting.
Dec 11 2008
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshound1 digitalmars.com)'s articleThat said, twitter might be useful if you're at a conference and want to know where your buds are headed for dinner or who is right now giving a talk that is interesting.There are some really interesting apps for the iPhone that integrate the GPS features of the phone with messaging and whatnot. Definitely very cool if you live in an urban environment and want to keep in touch with friends. Sean
Dec 11 2008
Walter Bright wrote:Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:Actually, it is not about immediate notification - you can no longer receive SMS I think for those you follow. It is more that a "busy" developer/person can easily write a short note about the progress without it seeing out of place - if you use a blog you are "obligated" to write a longer piece which takes more time and thus is less likely that you do. identifier, your message can be directed here and there depending on the topic. As Brad say, it may be a bit weird, but it is very convenient for aggregating short tidbits on a subject. In case you are curious; my account ;) http://twitter.com/larsivi -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the TangoIt is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added the l33t feature foo too app bar".I just can't imagine real time reports of adding a line of code/feature to a product would be useful. The timescale is at issue - to add a feature to a significant product requires coding (which may take days) followed by testing (many hours). Would anyone be hanging on twitter waiting for this?
Dec 11 2008
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:Actually, it is not about immediate notification - you can no longer receive SMS I think for those you follow. It is more that a "busy" developer/person can easily write a short note about the progress without it seeing out of place - if you use a blog you are "obligated" to write a longer piece which takes more time and thus is less likely that you do.I have that problem with my Dr. Dobb's blog. A blog is shorter than an article, but lots of people have commented that my blog entries are too short. The problem with an article length one is, of course, the time involved in writing it. I also suspect that fewer readers would read it if it were article length.some name or identifier, your message can be directed here and there depending on the topic. As Brad say, it may be a bit weird, but it is very convenient for aggregating short tidbits on a subject. In case you are curious; my account ;) http://twitter.com/larsiviI might just check it out.
Dec 11 2008
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:In case you are curious; my account ;) http://twitter.com/larsiviOddly, I cannot add your name. Twitter insists that in order to add people, I must have an email address on hotmail. Anyhow, my twitter account name is WalterBright.
Dec 11 2008
Walter Bright wrote:Oddly, I cannot add your name. Twitter insists that in order to add people, I must have an email address on hotmail.Never mind, I figured it out.
Dec 11 2008
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshound1 digitalmars.com)'s articleLars Ivar Igesund wrote:That's weird. I was able to add you by going to http://twitter.com/walterbright and clicking "follow." (I broke down and created a Twitter account today also) SeanIn case you are curious; my account ;) http://twitter.com/larsiviOddly, I cannot add your name. Twitter insists that in order to add people, I must have an email address on hotmail.
Dec 11 2008
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a cup of copy. bleh./me imagines Walter holding a cup filled to the brim with steaming hot newspaper.
Dec 11 2008
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:I have to say, I'm not drinking coffee at the moment. Perhaps later today. I'll be sure and announce it here!The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a cup of copy. bleh./me imagines Walter holding a cup filled to the brim with steaming hot newspaper.
Dec 11 2008
Walter Bright wrote:Jarrett Billingsley wrote:I'm drinking coffee now.On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:I have to say, I'm not drinking coffee at the moment. Perhaps later today. I'll be sure and announce it here!The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a cup of copy. bleh./me imagines Walter holding a cup filled to the brim with steaming hot newspaper.
Dec 11 2008
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:I'm drinking coffee now.Thanks for the update, but I was making a terrible joke on your mistyping of "coffee" as "copy." ;)
Dec 11 2008
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:Thanks for the update, but I was making a terrible joke on your mistyping of "coffee" as "copy." ;)I looked at that 3 times and didn't realize I had misspelled it that way. My brain is weird.
Dec 11 2008
Dan Wrote:Hi all, Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards. However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame. To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone. At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D newsgroup.Yes. Yes. Yes. D could use something like this. http://www.punbb-hosting.com/
Dec 09 2008
Dan wrote:Hi all, Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards. However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame. To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone. At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D newsgroup.Maybe we just need a better web-news? I looked on sourceforge, and it doesn't seem like web-news is being updated, and there aren't too many great alternatives. If there was one where you could register ()optionally - you should also be able to use it without registration), you could use that feature to save state (viewed posts), and give it whatever interface you like. A talented web programmer could even add in some AJAX-y stuff so it would notify you of new posts.
Dec 09 2008
Walter Bright Wrote:Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show you what you have and have not read.that (yes, crappy) thing is called "blog". Forum is something like http://www.phpbb.com/community/ http://forums.invisionpower.com/ http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded on one page?)example of long thread http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showtopic=277487 20 posts per page (number is customizable after registration). I think, the main difference between such fora is administration facilities. Everything else is highly customizable.
Dec 10 2008
wouldn't a web-based news-reader solve this problem? I've just did a little search and found: a) http://opensource.polytechnique.org/banana/ from the above site: "Banana is a fast (really fast) web-based NNTP library with server side caching " b) http://rubyforge.org/projects/ruby-net-nntp - a Ruby NNTP lib. How hard would it be to create a RoR app with this lib already providing you an API to access NNTP servers? Should be simple enough, I think. 3) for all the python lovers here - I'm sure an equivalent python lib exists that could be used with something like django (or whatever the python equivalent for RoR is). 2eurocent, please :)
Dec 11 2008
dude! sweet! wrote:wouldn't a web-based news-reader solve this problem? I've just did a little search and found: a) http://opensource.polytechnique.org/banana/ from the above site: "Banana is a fast (really fast) web-based NNTP library with server side caching " b) http://rubyforge.org/projects/ruby-net-nntp - a Ruby NNTP lib. How hard would it be to create a RoR app with this lib already providing you an API to access NNTP servers? Should be simple enough, I think. 3) for all the python lovers here - I'm sure an equivalent python lib exists that could be used with something like django (or whatever the python equivalent for RoR is). 2eurocent, please :)We have one: http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D
Dec 12 2008
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> wrote:dude! sweet! wrote:We have one that doesn't work right. The idea is to create a _new_ one which does ;)wouldn't a web-based news-reader solve this problem? I've just did a little search and found: a) http://opensource.polytechnique.org/banana/ from the above site: "Banana is a fast (really fast) web-based NNTP library with server side caching " b) http://rubyforge.org/projects/ruby-net-nntp - a Ruby NNTP lib. How hard would it be to create a RoR app with this lib already providing you an API to access NNTP servers? Should be simple enough, I think. 3) for all the python lovers here - I'm sure an equivalent python lib exists that could be used with something like django (or whatever the python equivalent for RoR is). 2eurocent, please :)We have one: http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D
Dec 12 2008
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Robert FraserIt's open source. You could fix it <g>.We have one: http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.DWe have one that doesn't work right. The idea is to create a _new_ one which does ;)
Dec 12 2008
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:It's open source. You could fix it <g>.It's also PHP.. good luck finding someone who _wants_ to fix it ;)
Dec 12 2008
== Quote from Jarrett Billingsley (jarrett.billingsley gmail.com)'s articleOn Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:I wonder if some of the fixes would really take that much effort for someone who's experienced with PHP. (I don't have much experience with PHP, and I'm probably too lazy to find the time to work on it anyway.) My pet peeve about the webnews interface is how sometimes the "Recent messages in this thread" list gives links to the wrong newsgroup (e.g., digitalmars.D instead or digitalmars.D.announce). I'm sure fixing it would require wading through some code, but I suspect it wouldn't be that hard to fix. Another way that webnews could be enhanced is to have a link to the corresponding post in pnews. For most purposes, webnews is superior to pnews, but sometimes pnews is helpful too (e.g., header information). I bet that'd be pretty easy. Also, I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to get the fixes published on digitalmars.com if I spent the time working on it. For example, the old "D" newsgroup is still not available from webnews. http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D&article_id=46629 By the way, after all these years, the http://www.opend.org/ website is still "investigating how to hook the D frontend into the GCC backend". Maybe someone should tell them about GDC. ;)It's open source. You could fix it <g>.It's also PHP.. good luck finding someone who _wants_ to fix it ;)
Dec 15 2008