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reply "Peter Alexander" <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:
Just had an unfortunate exchange on Twitter

https://twitter.com/bitshifternz/status/515998608009601024

Him: "isn't D garbage collected? That would make it a non-starter 
for me."

Me: "it's optional. malloc/free are available and we'll have 
allocators soon that can hook into std lib."

Him: "if that's the case the D website does a poor job of 
spelling it out. Nothing in FAQ or here 
http://dlang.org/garbage.html"
Him: ""D is a fully garbage collected language" doesn't sound 
very optional!"
Him: "now I'm going to have to look at D properly!"


I've now filed a bug.

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13547

I've literally had 3 or 4 conversations in just the past few 
days, both online and in person with people that believe D is 
only garbage collected. We have to fix this perception. It's 
literally scaring people away from even looking at anything else 
the language has to offer.
Sep 27 2014
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 9/27/2014 4:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:

 I've now filed a bug.

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13547


Thanks for filing the bug report. I was going to raise its priority, and found 
you'd already done so!

Any takers?

Andrei, wanna put a bounty on it?
Sep 27 2014
next sibling parent "Peter Alexander" <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 28 September 2014 at 00:58:00 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 9/27/2014 4:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:

 I've now filed a bug.

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13547


 Thanks for filing the bug report. I was going to raise its 
 priority, and found you'd already done so!


Yeah, I consider anything that's actively, demonstrably, and 
unnecessarily driving people away to be high priority.


 Any takers?

 Andrei, wanna put a bounty on it?


I don't think a bounty is necessary since it should be fairly 
easy. Bounties are for motivating people to do difficult things. 
If no one has taken it by the time I'm done with the benchmark 
shootout stuff then I'll do it.
Sep 28 2014
prev sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 9/27/14, 5:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 9/27/2014 4:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:

 I've now filed a bug.

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13547


 Thanks for filing the bug report. I was going to raise its priority, and
 found you'd already done so!

 Any takers?

 Andrei, wanna put a bounty on it?


This probably doesn't warrant a bounty. I'm traveling and will be nearly 
out of touch, somebody please just fix it. Peter? -- Andrei
Sep 28 2014
parent reply Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Am 28.09.2014 14:16, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

 On 9/27/14, 5:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 9/27/2014 4:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:

 I've now filed a bug.

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13547


 Thanks for filing the bug report. I was going to raise its priority, and
 found you'd already done so!

 Any takers?

 Andrei, wanna put a bounty on it?


 This probably doesn't warrant a bounty. I'm traveling and will be nearly
 out of touch, somebody please just fix it. Peter? -- Andrei


I can try a shot at it.

Should it provide just additional information that allocators and manual 
memory management are also available, or something more detailed?

--
Paulo
Sep 28 2014
next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 9/28/14, 5:46 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 Am 28.09.2014 14:16, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

 On 9/27/14, 5:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 9/27/2014 4:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:

 I've now filed a bug.

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13547


 Thanks for filing the bug report. I was going to raise its priority, and
 found you'd already done so!

 Any takers?

 Andrei, wanna put a bounty on it?


 This probably doesn't warrant a bounty. I'm traveling and will be nearly
 out of touch, somebody please just fix it. Peter? -- Andrei


 I can try a shot at it.

 Should it provide just additional information that allocators and manual
 memory management are also available, or something more detailed?


I'd probably refer to the existing std.allocator draft but clarifying 
it's work in progress.

Also mention there's work undergoing on making the stdlib usable without 
a garbage collector.


Thanks!

Andrei
Sep 28 2014
parent reply Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Am 28.09.2014 15:16, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

 On 9/28/14, 5:46 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 Am 28.09.2014 14:16, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

 On 9/27/14, 5:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 9/27/2014 4:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:

 I've now filed a bug.

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13547


 Thanks for filing the bug report. I was going to raise its priority,
 and
 found you'd already done so!

 Any takers?

 Andrei, wanna put a bounty on it?


 This probably doesn't warrant a bounty. I'm traveling and will be nearly
 out of touch, somebody please just fix it. Peter? -- Andrei


 I can try a shot at it.

 Should it provide just additional information that allocators and manual
 memory management are also available, or something more detailed?


 I'd probably refer to the existing std.allocator draft but clarifying
 it's work in progress.

 Also mention there's work undergoing on making the stdlib usable without
 a garbage collector.


 Thanks!

 Andrei



The ticket has been updated accordingly. I am now updating some parts of it.


As I need to go out, I will finish it by the evening.

--
Paulo
Sep 28 2014
parent Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Am 28.09.2014 15:42, schrieb Paulo Pinto:

 Am 28.09.2014 15:16, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

 On 9/28/14, 5:46 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 Am 28.09.2014 14:16, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

 On 9/27/14, 5:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 9/27/2014 4:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:

 I've now filed a bug.

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13547


 Thanks for filing the bug report. I was going to raise its priority,
 and
 found you'd already done so!

 Any takers?

 Andrei, wanna put a bounty on it?


 This probably doesn't warrant a bounty. I'm traveling and will be
 nearly
 out of touch, somebody please just fix it. Peter? -- Andrei


 I can try a shot at it.

 Should it provide just additional information that allocators and manual
 memory management are also available, or something more detailed?


 I'd probably refer to the existing std.allocator draft but clarifying
 it's work in progress.

 Also mention there's work undergoing on making the stdlib usable without
 a garbage collector.


 Thanks!

 Andrei



 The ticket has been updated accordingly. I am now updating some parts of
 it.


 As I need to go out, I will finish it by the evening.

 --
 Paulo



Changes now awaiting for review.


--
Paulo
Sep 28 2014
prev sibling parent reply "Mike" <none none.com> writes:
On Sunday, 28 September 2014 at 12:46:30 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 Should it provide just additional information that allocators 
 and manual memory management are also available, or something 
 more detailed?


You may want to point readers here:  
http://wiki.dlang.org/Memory_Management

Mike
Sep 28 2014
parent Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Am 28.09.2014 15:24, schrieb Mike:

 On Sunday, 28 September 2014 at 12:46:30 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 Should it provide just additional information that allocators and
 manual memory management are also available, or something more detailed?


 You may want to point readers here: http://wiki.dlang.org/Memory_Management

 Mike


Thanks for the info.

Already added a small intro to  nogc.

http://wiki.dlang.org/Memory_Management#Writing_GC_free_code

--
Paulo
Sep 28 2014
prev sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 9/27/14, 4:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:

 Just had an unfortunate exchange on Twitter

 https://twitter.com/bitshifternz/status/515998608009601024

 Him: "isn't D garbage collected? That would make it a non-starter for me."

 Me: "it's optional. malloc/free are available and we'll have allocators
 soon that can hook into std lib."

 Him: "if that's the case the D website does a poor job of spelling it
 out. Nothing in FAQ or here http://dlang.org/garbage.html"
 Him: ""D is a fully garbage collected language" doesn't sound very
 optional!"
 Him: "now I'm going to have to look at D properly!"


 I've now filed a bug.

 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13547

 I've literally had 3 or 4 conversations in just the past few days, both
 online and in person with people that believe D is only garbage
 collected. We have to fix this perception. It's literally scaring people
 away from even looking at anything else the language has to offer.


Well put! -- Andrei
Sep 28 2014