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digitalmars.D - Martin Nowak is officially MIA

reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
Hello,


Martin has not replied to any communication for more than two weeks now, 
and I'm starting to fear something might have happened to him. If anyone 
in Berlin could get in touch with him and let me/us know he's alright, 
I'd appreciate it. It's okay if he's bothered about missing his flight 
to DConf or anything related, but the perspective of a more serious 
problem is worrisome.

We are therefore looking for a new release czar. Two would be even 
better to avoid similar problems in the future. Please let everybody 
know if interested.


Thanks,

Andrei
Jun 16 2015
next sibling parent "Etienne Cimon" <etcimon gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 02:16:37 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 Hello,


 Martin has not replied to any communication for more than two 
 weeks now, and I'm starting to fear something might have 
 happened to him. If anyone in Berlin could get in touch with 
 him and let me/us know he's alright, I'd appreciate it. It's


https://github.com/MartinNowak?tab=activity

I see a message from 5 days ago here. I think he's fine but 
probably got tangled up in something else at the moment.
Jun 16 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On 17 Jun 2015 04:20, "Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d" <
digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:

 Hello,


 Martin has not replied to any communication for more than two weeks now,


and I'm starting to fear something might have happened to him. If anyone in
Berlin could get in touch with him and let me/us know he's alright, I'd
appreciate it. It's okay if he's bothered about missing his flight to DConf
or anything related, but the perspective of a more serious problem is
worrisome.

 We are therefore looking for a new release czar. Two would be even better


to avoid similar problems in the future. Please let everybody know if
interested.


There's a meetup this Friday. Assuming he attends I'll refer him on.



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply "berlin" <berlin berlin.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 02:16:37 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 Hello,


 Martin has not replied to any communication for more than two 
 weeks now, and I'm starting to fear something might have 
 happened to him. If anyone in Berlin could get in touch with 
 him and let me/us know he's alright, I'd appreciate it. It's 
 okay if he's bothered about missing his flight to DConf or 
 anything related, but the perspective of a more serious problem 
 is worrisome.

 We are therefore looking for a new release czar. Two would be 
 even better to avoid similar problems in the future. Please let 
 everybody know if interested.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


maybe one of the brain surgeons from africa (comming by boat) or 
some muslim (turkish, arabic or otherwise) got him at after 
16:00? did he have more then 1 dollar and a smartphone? did he 
visit kreutzberg, neukoelln, schoeneberg, gesundbrunnen, center, 
spandau or steglitz.
all that is enough for a decent knifing in the german capital or 
getting your head smashed.
so better be insured for your next d-meetup.
i hope nothing happened to him, but in berlin you never know.



 Jun 17 2015



 next sibling parent reply "Abdulhaq" <alynch4047 gmail.com>  writes:


 maybe one of the brain surgeons from africa (comming by boat) 
 or some muslim (turkish, arabic or otherwise) got him at after 
 16:00?


I know, don't feed the trolls, but:

Your primary problem is not the immigrants.



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply "berlin" <berlin berlin.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 11:51:30 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

 maybe one of the brain surgeons from africa (comming by boat) 
 or some muslim (turkish, arabic or otherwise) got him at after 
 16:00?


 I know, don't feed the trolls, but:

 Your primary problem is not the immigrants.


it the muslim immigrants with knives.
not a troll, but a berliner experiences of multi-kulti knives.



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply "Abdulhaq" <alynch4047 gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 12:14:05 UTC, berlin wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 11:51:30 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

 maybe one of the brain surgeons from africa (comming by boat) 
 or some muslim (turkish, arabic or otherwise) got him at 
 after 16:00?


 I know, don't feed the trolls, but:

 Your primary problem is not the immigrants.


 it the muslim immigrants with knives.
 not a troll, but a berliner experiences of multi-kulti knives.


The likely explanation for people being out of touch for a few 
days is not muderous muslim immigrants. When you start to think 
that it is, you need look at the state of your mind, not the 
immigrants.



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply "Etienne" <etcimon gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 12:57:51 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 12:14:05 UTC, berlin wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 11:51:30 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

 maybe one of the brain surgeons from africa (comming by 
 boat) or some muslim (turkish, arabic or otherwise) got him 
 at after 16:00?


 I know, don't feed the trolls, but:

 Your primary problem is not the immigrants.


 it the muslim immigrants with knives.
 not a troll, but a berliner experiences of multi-kulti knives.


 The likely explanation for people being out of touch for a few 
 days is not muderous muslim immigrants. When you start to think 
 that it is, you need look at the state of your mind, not the 
 immigrants.


Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think like 
that around here in Canada are laughed at because we all 
immigrated 200-300 years ago :)



 Jun 17 2015



 next sibling parent reply "Abdulhaq" <alynch4047 gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:26:57 UTC, Etienne wrote:


 The likely explanation for people being out of touch for a few 
 days is not muderous muslim immigrants. When you start to 
 think that it is, you need look at the state of your mind, not 
 the immigrants.


 Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think 
 like that around here in Canada are laughed at because we all 
 immigrated 200-300 years ago :)


It was a throwaway comment, no doubt, but the situation is too 
dangerous to let silly comments slide by without a mention - 
these things snowball. I'm sure there are plenty of problems with 
immigrants but blaming them for everything leads to an 
exaggerated xenophobia and the real problems are pushed to one 
side.



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply "Etienne" <etcimon gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:48:50 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:26:57 UTC, Etienne wrote:


 The likely explanation for people being out of touch for a 
 few days is not muderous muslim immigrants. When you start to 
 think that it is, you need look at the state of your mind, 
 not the immigrants.


 Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think 
 like that around here in Canada are laughed at because we all 
 immigrated 200-300 years ago :)


 It was a throwaway comment, no doubt, but the situation is too 
 dangerous to let silly comments slide by without a mention - 
 these things snowball. I'm sure there are plenty of problems 
 with immigrants but blaming them for everything leads to an 
 exaggerated xenophobia and the real problems are pushed to one 
 side.


Maybe one day Muslims will have their Martin Luther King, 
although I doubt the situation is so dire



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply "Abdulhaq" <alynch4047 gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:55:14 UTC, Etienne wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:48:50 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:26:57 UTC, Etienne wrote:


 The likely explanation for people being out of touch for a 
 few days is not muderous muslim immigrants. When you start 
 to think that it is, you need look at the state of your 
 mind, not the immigrants.


 Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think 
 like that around here in Canada are laughed at because we all 
 immigrated 200-300 years ago :)


 It was a throwaway comment, no doubt, but the situation is too 
 dangerous to let silly comments slide by without a mention - 
 these things snowball. I'm sure there are plenty of problems 
 with immigrants but blaming them for everything leads to an 
 exaggerated xenophobia and the real problems are pushed to one 
 side.


 Maybe one day Muslims will have their Martin Luther King, 
 although I doubt the situation is so dire


I don't think you understand the worldwide situation but this 
forum is not the place to discuss it. I will say that I doubt 
that MLK could have saved Grozny, Baghdad or Aleppo for instance.



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply "berlin" <berlin berlin.com>  writes:


well, read something to your world situation. take it from an old 
kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html

you might also want to take a closer look at "taqiyya" - that is 
why nobody can trust a muslim.



 Jun 17 2015



 next sibling parent reply "Abdulhaq" <alynch4047 gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote:

 well, read something to your world situation. take it from an 
 old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law:

 http://www.jihadwatch.org/
 http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
 http://www.barenakedislam.com/
 http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html

 you might also want to take a closer look at "taqiyya" - that 
 is why nobody can trust a muslim.


It's your anger and hate you need to take a hard look at, it's 
taking you to a dark place. Whatever it is that's really eating 
you, I doubt it's the muslims that caused it. BTW if you want to 
learn about Islam, learn it from a muslim and not hate 
propagation sites.



 Jun 17 2015



 next sibling parent  "berlin" <berlin berlin.com>  writes:


angry - yes after getting stabbed on my way home from work with 
an allahu akbar.
hate - no.
i despise the muslim religion for its pedophile men (and prophet) 
marrying 9 yr. old girls, beheading people because they are no 
muslims, raping themselves through the middle east and thinking 
of christians, jews and women as creatures lesser than dogs.
i don't want to learn anything from muslims - believe it or not, 
i watch the news and would have to degenerate a couple of hundred 
years to think like a muslim.
maybe you should take a look at these links and learn a little 
bit about your religion, since the links content illustrate the 
sad truth.
well this was my last post, sorry if i offended someone.

On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:28:52 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote:

 well, read something to your world situation. take it from an 
 old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law:

 http://www.jihadwatch.org/
 http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
 http://www.barenakedislam.com/
 http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html

 you might also want to take a closer look at "taqiyya" - that 
 is why nobody can trust a muslim.


 It's your anger and hate you need to take a hard look at, it's 
 taking you to a dark place. Whatever it is that's really eating 
 you, I doubt it's the muslims that caused it. BTW if you want 
 to learn about Islam, learn it from a muslim and not hate 
 propagation sites.





 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling  parent reply "Lost Indian" <lost.indian gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:28:52 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

 It's your anger and hate you need to take a hard look at, it's 
 taking you to a dark place. Whatever it is that's really eating 
 you, I doubt it's the muslims that caused it.


I do not know about the other parts of the world, but where I 
live, Muslims invaded a thousand year back without any 
provocation and with the same ferocity that they now exhibit in 
Iraq and Syria. So much so that from Mecca to the boundaries of 
present day India (and that includes Iran Iraq Afgan and 
Pakistan) all were converted by sword.

There is story of Banda Bahadur (an Indian warrior) who was 
captured along with his 4 year old son and asked to convert. On 
refusal, his son of 4 years was butchered in front of his eyes 
and his heart was taken out and forces fed into Banda's mouth. No 
I am not making up these stories, these are part of registered 
history written by Muslim historians. All this happened in the 
court of the then Islamic ruler named Aurangzeb. So at least I am 
not amused by what is happening in Iraq and Syria today.


 BTW if you want to learn about Islam, learn it from a muslim 
 and not hate propagation sites.


Do that at your own risk. Many in Europe did that and ended up 
converting to this cult. There is a tenet of Islam called Taqiyya 
that one should be aware of before going to a Muslim and asking 
him for Islamic teachings. Search for Taqiyya on Google and be 
fearless.

- A Lost Indian



 Jun 17 2015



 next sibling parent  "bachmeier" <no spam.net>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:01:09 UTC, Lost Indian wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:28:52 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:

 [...]


 I do not know about the other parts of the world, but where I 
 live, Muslims invaded a thousand year back without any 
 provocation and with the same ferocity that they now exhibit in 
 Iraq and Syria. So much so that from Mecca to the boundaries of 
 present day India (and that includes Iran Iraq Afgan and 
 Pakistan) all were converted by sword.

 [...]


Discussions this dumb belong on Hacker News. I took a long break 
from this site and upon my return I saw this.



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Etienne" <etcimon gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:01:09 UTC, Lost Indian wrote:

 There is story of Banda Bahadur (an Indian warrior) who was 
 captured along with his 4 year old son and asked to convert. On 
 refusal, his son of 4 years was butchered in front of his eyes


To be fair it does sound like he was asking for it. I wouldn't 
provoke an armed man who's holding my 4 yr old captive. I mean, 
the young ones have been butchered in War since before mankind. 
War is Hell. This stuff has happened recently, I haven't finished 
holding my breath over reading about Nanking Massacre on 
Wikipedia the other day.



 Jun 17 2015



  parent  "Lost Indian" <lost.indian gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:34:32 UTC, Etienne wrote:

 To be fair it does sound like he was asking for it. I wouldn't 
 provoke an armed man who's holding my 4 yr old captive. I mean, 
 the young ones have been butchered in War since before mankind. 
 War is Hell. This stuff has happened recently, I haven't 
 finished holding my breath over reading about Nanking Massacre 
 on Wikipedia the other day.


Before he took up arms, Banda was a saint. He took up arms only 
to protect religious freedom of fellow Indians. So in a way he 
asked for it. But had he (and many others) not done that, much of 
India would have been like Iraq and Syria of today.

A few decades before Banda's sacrifice is the sacrifice of Bhai 
Matidas and Bhai Satidas (just for example -- there are 
innumerable more). They were not even warriors. But since they 
refused conversion, in full public view, one was enveloped in 
cotton and put to fire, and the other framed in wooden planks and 
sawed vertically thus splitting his body in two.

An estimate says that India lost 90 million lives in the last 
1000 years fighting this insane idea of religious superiority 
that many followers of this cult carry.

This is my last post on this forum on this topic. I am sorry to 
have breached the sanctity of a technical forum in this way.



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling  parent  "Lost American" <lost abcdefg.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:01:09 UTC, Lost Indian wrote:

 BTW if you want to learn about Islam, learn it from a muslim 
 and not hate propagation sites.


 Do that at your own risk. Many in Europe did that and ended up 
 converting to this cult. There is a tenet of Islam called 
 Taqiyya that one should be aware of before going to a Muslim 
 and asking him for Islamic teachings. Search for Taqiyya on 
 Google and be fearless.

 - A Lost Indian


I didn't expect to see this kind of hate on a programming forum...

I know lots of Muslims. Even married a Muslim (atheist myself). 
Most great people. In general, very modest, hard working, and 
loving. Sure I've met some bad seeds, but I've met some pretty 
bad seeds in every demographic. There's over a billion Muslims 
and growing. And just as in any religion the way it is practiced 
is very diverse and often influenced by culture. If you go to 
southern and central Africa, you will see very similar behavior 
as in the mid-east, but in a more Christian society. But even in 
these cultures there are great people. Their voices just get 
spoken over by the louder more extreme individuals. I recommend 
getting outside of your bubble to gain a much larger perspective.



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "Etienne Cimon" <etcimon gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote:

 well, read something to your world situation. take it from an 
 old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law:

 http://www.jihadwatch.org/
 http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
 http://www.barenakedislam.com/
 http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html

 you might also want to take a closer look at "taqiyya" - that 
 is why nobody can trust a muslim.


I know all about that. It's a little hard to assimilate people 
though. I'm from a french city of 700,000 (Quebec) surrounded by 
300 million english men over 300 years, and we're not english 
(yet)



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling  parent reply "Morbid.Obesity" <Morbid.Obesity mail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote:

 well, read something to your world situation. take it from an 
 old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law:

 http://www.jihadwatch.org/
 http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
 http://www.barenakedislam.com/
 http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html

 you might also want to take a closer look at "taqiyya" - that 
 is why nobody can trust a muslim.


Hi, I am new to this concept, Off wiki:

"There is a consensus that whomsoever is forced into apostasy and 
chooses death has a greater reward than a person who takes the 
license [to deny one's faith under duress], but if a person is 
being forced to eat pork or drink wine, then they should do that 
[instead of choosing death]."

Then, can one not logically deduce that if anyone tries to kill 
muslims, such as the US invading them that they should, if they 
are not willing to fight and die, they should do **whatever** is 
forced upon them(until that time which they are willing to die)?

e.g., the U.S. could force 99% of Muslims to do "X" and they will 
do it(by the above logic), e.g., the statement uses pork and 
whine but they are just examples, it is open ended.


Now why did the U.S. not do that when we invaded a Muslim country 
the first 10 times? Is it ignorance(I got the power of that 
belief 1 min after opening the wiki page, surely there are many 
smarter people working in the U.S. government than me?) or 
intentional?

You know how politicians are extremely good at conning the public 
and wiggling there fingers in to every crevice? How they start 
off easy, like a sheep, then the next thing you know, you've just 
been bitten in to?

Surely that skill could have been used on the Muslim wars? Start 
off with making them teach English and Mathematics in their 
schools. Force them to submit to such "basic" things. Once your 
in, your in.... if you really cared to be in, in the first place.

There are many more Americans benefiting from the continuation of 
wars than there are that are not. The dead soldiers do not count, 
nor do their families and friends because only the rich and 
powerful matter. I'm curious to what percentage of men who are 
rich by birth join the front lines versus those that are poor? 
War is just the governments way of "spring cleaning". If we 
really cared about solving the problem we would just assassinate 
and bomb the crap out of them. Force the fearing Muslims to turn 
in the non-fearing ones... kill the non-fearing ones. Problem 
solved... well, again, unless you don't see a problem with the 
status quo.

I personal opinion is that most muslims as most africans are a 
bit further back in the development cycle... But since we all 
came from the same monkey queen I think diversity is good as it 
helps keep us one step ahead of all the stuff trying to kill us. 
It would be nice if we could all just get over this "I'm better 
than you" bullshit that doesn't solve anything. Your mother sucks 
balls, but do you put her down for it? Yes, many 
blacks(percentage wise) are quantitatively retarded when measured 
again the whole, but what good does that do.

I guess a better thing for humanity is simply require everyone to 
marry outside their race... after a few generations we can move 
on to real problems that face humanity rather than bickering 
about who as the biggest dicks. (since everyone will have the 
biggest dicks and smallest dicks simultaneously, since all will 
have nearly identical genetic material. Of course, those who 
masturbate more might have bigger or smaller dicks depending on 
which scientific publications you read)

Of course, then we'll be all sick from having no immunity from 
all the bugs that have learned to eat us.



 Jun 17 2015



 next sibling parent  bitwise <bitwise.pvt gmail.com>  writes:


On Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:16:37 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu  
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 We are therefore looking for a new release czar.


On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 22:53:59 -0400, Morbid.Obesity  
<Morbid.Obesity mail.com> wrote:

 Of course, then we'll be all sick from having no immunity from all the  
 bugs that have learned to eat us.


I don't think digression quite covers this.. I vote we coin a new term.

   Bit



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling  parent reply "IgorStepanov" <wazar mail.ru>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:54:00 UTC, Morbid.Obesity wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote:

 well, read something to your world situation. take it from an 
 old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law:

 http://www.jihadwatch.org/
 http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
 http://www.barenakedislam.com/
 http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html




BTW, I think, our troll just advertised his resources. It was the 
main his goal.



 Jun 17 2015



  parent  "Joakim" <dlang joakim.fea.st>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 04:25:07 UTC, IgorStepanov wrote:

 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:54:00 UTC, Morbid.Obesity wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote:

 well, read something to your world situation. take it from an 
 old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law:

 http://www.jihadwatch.org/
 http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
 http://www.barenakedislam.com/
 http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html




 BTW, I think, our troll just advertised his resources. It was 
 the main his goal.


A couple of them said they're done, no need to kick the beehive 
again.



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com>  writes:


On 06/17/2015 09:26 AM, Etienne wrote:

 Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think like that
 around here in Canada are laughed at because we all immigrated 200-300
 years ago :)


That's pretty cool of Canada really. That historical fact is just as 
true for the US, but down here the whole thing gets taken seriously.

Related:
http://memegenerator.net/instance/10432272
https://xkcd.com/84/



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling  parent  "Meta" <jared771 gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:26:57 UTC, Etienne wrote:

 Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think 
 like that around here in Canada are laughed at because we all 
 immigrated 200-300 years ago :)


I don' think that's particularly true unless you've never been 
outside Toronto.



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling  parent  Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com>  writes:


On 6/17/2015 4:29 AM, berlin wrote:

 [...]


This is out of place here. Please stop.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply "IgorStepanov" <wazar mail.ru>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 02:16:37 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 Hello,


 Martin has not replied to any communication for more than two 
 weeks now, and I'm starting to fear something might have 
 happened to him. If anyone in Berlin could get in touch with 
 him and let me/us know he's alright, I'd appreciate it. It's 
 okay if he's bothered about missing his flight to DConf or 
 anything related, but the perspective of a more serious problem 
 is worrisome.

 We are therefore looking for a new release czar. Two would be 
 even better to avoid similar problems in the future. Please let 
 everybody know if interested.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


He returned back to github and posted some messages. End alarm:)



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org>  writes:


On 6/17/15 5:38 AM, IgorStepanov wrote:

 He returned back to github and posted some messages. End alarm:)


Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is 
still there.

The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two ones 
somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an actual "job", 
in the sense that regularity and professionalism are crucial. You need 
to "show up" and do it. If "This Week in D" is not there on Sunday 
evening, it's not a weekly. If we have no release manager and no 
contingency plan, we can't release. In the future we'll have folks 
depending on this and planning ahead for it.

You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your 
desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of 
planning, barring exceptional events. For example, Adam could tell his 
readership "I'll be on vacation next week, so no issue on August 9". 
Which is totally fine.

I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about this 
unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the worst because 
he seemed one of the most serious people I've dealt with, so this came 
as quite a major breakage of trust.

With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access 
will remain the same for the time being.

Until a replacement is found I will fumble with the release process 
myself, and I could use all the help I can get. In fact it would be a 
nice gesture of Martin to help with the transition. I'll be also 
counting on help from the more process-oriented members of the 
community. One note - 2.068 will be delayed because I have a house move 
to deal with for the time being, not to mention being busy with 
std.allocator and std.collection.


Thanks,

Andrei



 Jun 17 2015



 next sibling parent  Martin Nowak <code+news.digitalmars dawg.eu>  writes:


On 06/17/2015 08:35 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two ones
 somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an actual "job",
 in the sense that regularity and professionalism are crucial. You need
 to "show up" and do it. If "This Week in D" is not there on Sunday
 evening, it's not a weekly. If we have no release manager and no
 contingency plan, we can't release. In the future we'll have folks
 depending on this and planning ahead for it.
 
 You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your
 desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of
 planning, barring exceptional events. For example, Adam could tell his
 readership "I'll be on vacation next week, so no issue on August 9".
 Which is totally fine.


Well, I've been on vacation and prolonged that spontaneously for another
week or so.


 I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about this
 unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the worst because
 he seemed one of the most serious people I've dealt with, so this came
 as quite a major breakage of trust.


I tried to convince people for 2 years to plan development (remember
http://wiki.dlang.org/Agenda) and never got anyone to cooperate. It's
very difficult to plan a release when people develop random stuff on
master, hopefully this will improve with the more regular releases.

-Martin



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply "deadalnix" <deadalnix gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two 
 ones somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an 
 actual "job", in the sense that regularity and professionalism 
 are crucial. You need to "show up" and do it. If "This Week in 
 D" is not there on Sunday evening, it's not a weekly. If we 
 have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't 
 release. In the future we'll have folks depending on this and 
 planning ahead for it.


There is a very important difference with an actual job: an 
actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of 
commitment from a volunteer than an employee.

I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to 
demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for 
release, and it yielded actual results.



 Jun 17 2015



 next sibling parent  "Etienne" <etcimon gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

[...]


 There is a very important difference with an actual job: an 
 actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level 
 of commitment from a volunteer than an employee.

 I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to 
 demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for 
 release, and it yielded actual results.


Someone paid $100,000/yr gets 1 mo of vacation. At $35,000/yr you 
get 2 weeks of vacation. $10/h gets 1 week of vacation. See where 
I'm getting at? ^^



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "Brad Anderson" <eco gnuk.net>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote:

 There is a very important difference with an actual job: an 
 actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level 
 of commitment from a volunteer than an employee.

 I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to 
 demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for 
 release, and it yielded actual results.


Yeah, this seems very dramatic. The release process is in much 
better shape than it's ever been thanks in large part to his 
efforts and nobody knows it better than him. It's not like anyone 
else is eager to jump in and fill the role that Martin 
volunteered for.

I'm not saying the unannounced MIA isn't a problem, it is. It's 
just that demoting the one person who is best equipped to do it 
seems a bit over the top for an all volunteer community project. 
"Can someone fill in until we figure out what is going on?" is 
perhaps a more appropriate response than a public rebuke.



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "Jonathan M Davis" <jmdavisProg gmx.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two 
 ones somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an 
 actual "job", in the sense that regularity and professionalism 
 are crucial. You need to "show up" and do it. If "This Week in 
 D" is not there on Sunday evening, it's not a weekly. If we 
 have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't 
 release. In the future we'll have folks depending on this and 
 planning ahead for it.


 There is a very important difference with an actual job: an 
 actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level 
 of commitment from a volunteer than an employee.

 I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to 
 demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for 
 release, and it yielded actual results.


With an official position in the dlang organization with certain 
responsibilities, I don't think that it's necessarily 
unreasonable to expect certain things from the person who's in 
that position (like being able to contact them within a certain 
period of time unless they've communicated ahead of time that 
they won't be available). However, that level of commitment needs 
to be understood by those involved, whereas it seems like it was 
just assumed by Andrei. And normally, Martin _is_ contactable 
within a fairly short period of time. It's just that he went on 
vacation first without communicating that. He probably should 
have been more contactable than he was, but sometimes that 
happens when you're on vacation.

So, if we want to place certain requirements of contactability or 
punctuality or whatnot on volunteers in certain positions of 
responsibility, then I don't see a problem with that, but that 
needs to be clear up front, and I don't think that it was. So, 
this definitely seems like an overreaction to me on Andrei's 
part, especially when you consider how on top of things Martin 
usually is.

That being said, I think that this does highlight how we need to 
have multiple people involved in the release process so that 
having one person go on vacation doesn't bring things to a halt, 
and for official responsibilities that are time-sensitive, we 
probably do need to have those involved communicating ahead of 
time when they're not going to be available for a week or more.

- Jonathan M Davis



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply "dnewbie" <run3 myopera.com>  writes:


 I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to 
 demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for 
 release, and it yielded actual results.


Indeed.



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply Rikki Cattermole <alphaglosined gmail.com>  writes:


On 18/06/2015 3:48 p.m., dnewbie wrote:

 I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote
 Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and
 it yielded actual results.


 Indeed.


+1 and I do not do so/say so lightly.



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply "Daniel N" <ufo orbiting.us>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 04:05:55 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:

 On 18/06/2015 3:48 p.m., dnewbie wrote:

 I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh 
 to demote
 Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for 
 release, and
 it yielded actual results.


 Indeed.


 +1 and I do not do so/say so lightly.


Everything could probably have been avoided if only all key 
personel had shared phone numbers, mobile inet is often 
prohibitly expensive while abroad, but sms remains acceptable...



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply "Laeeth Isharc" <nospamlaeeth laeethnospam.laeeth.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 06:54:53 UTC, Daniel N wrote:

 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 04:05:55 UTC, Rikki Cattermole 
 wrote:

 On 18/06/2015 3:48 p.m., dnewbie wrote:

 I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh 
 to demote
 Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for 
 release, and
 it yielded actual results.


 Indeed.


 +1 and I do not do so/say so lightly.


 Everything could probably have been avoided if only all key 
 personel had shared phone numbers, mobile inet is often 
 prohibitly expensive while abroad, but sms remains acceptable...


Yes - one gets so used to being able to reach people in the 
modern world, that a short period of disconnect leads to all 
kinds of concerns and doubts.  There is a fine balance to be 
struck between wanting to maintain an admirably high standard of 
professionalism and excellence, and being excessively harsh in 
enforcing such a standard - particularly in a public forum.  The 
problem is also the medium doesn't lend itself to nuance, and 
modern people don't tend to think that way either.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent  "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?=  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 07:22:51 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote:

 Yes - one gets so used to being able to reach people in the 
 modern world, that a short period of disconnect leads to all 
 kinds of concerns and doubts.


Yes, it is interesting that new media creates new spaces and new 
types of perceived presence. In one way it is cute that people 
can worry about lack of presence (in the loving way) and if 
people feel they worried for no reason it is easy to get upset. I 
think everybody has experienced that one way or another.

On the other hand it basically means that if you don't pick up 
your cellphone you end up having to explain what you were doing 
at the time. So you have to fight more for your privacy. I 
personally find that intrusive.

So it might generally be difficult to get the _best_ person in a 
group to volunteer if you need high availability. It would be 
better to have a plan with milestones. Then you know which week 
participation is critical at least a month ahead.

And really, for a compiler consistent quality is critically 
important, so getting more of the few best skilled people to 
volunteer is a lot more important than getting many lesser 
skilled to volunteer.

The price is to make it enjoyable for skilled people to 
volunteer. Whatever it takes.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "Elvis Zhou" <elvis.x.zhou gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

[...]


 There is a very important difference with an actual job: an 
 actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level 
 of commitment from a volunteer than an employee.

 I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to 
 demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for 
 release, and it yielded actual results.


+1



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling  parent reply "John Colvin" <john.loughran.colvin gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

[...]


 There is a very important difference with an actual job: an 
 actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level 
 of commitment from a volunteer than an employee.

 I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to 
 demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for 
 release, and it yielded actual results.


+1

D wouldn't have anyone doing any work at all, professional or 
not, without goodwill and enthusiasm.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent  "wobbles" <grogan.colin gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 08:35:12 UTC, John Colvin wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei 
 Alexandrescu wrote:

[...]


 There is a very important difference with an actual job: an 
 actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level 
 of commitment from a volunteer than an employee.

 I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh 
 to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most 
 for release, and it yielded actual results.


 +1

 D wouldn't have anyone doing any work at all, professional or 
 not, without goodwill and enthusiasm.


I'm a bit of a nobody here, but for an outsiders point of view 
looking at this forum this looks very bad. A small community that 
can't even get along.

Very harsh decision I feel.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  bitwise <bitwise.pvt gmail.com>  writes:


On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:35:47 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu  
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:


 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access  
 will remain the same for the time being.


Shame!
http://i.imgur.com/OyLhxfc.gif

   Bit



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "WTF" <wtf comcast.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 6/17/15 5:38 AM, IgorStepanov wrote:

 You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up 
 at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs 
 some level of planning, barring exceptional events. For 
 example, Adam could tell his readership "I'll be on vacation 
 next week, so no issue on August 9". Which is totally fine.

 I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about 
 this unprofessional behavior.


WTF? The guy went on vacation. He's doing what you describe as 
"good" work for free. This isn't just strange, it's unrealistic 
on your part.


 In fact I could only assume the worst because he seemed one of 
 the most serious people  > I've dealt with, so this came as 
 quite a major breakage of trust.


Again WTF? He went on vacation.


 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github 
 access will remain the same for the time being.


Oh, yay, you will allow him to work for free still...


 Until a replacement is found I will fumble with the release 
 process myself, and I could use all the help I can get. In fact 
 it would be a nice gesture of Martin to help with the 
 transition.


Diminish a guy as "unprofessional", demote him, and then ask for 
his help? This is not the way to encourage people to get involved 
in this community. In fact, as an outsider, I was looking to 
contribute to an opensource language (with D being the one I was 
really considering), but this just turned me completely off from 
participating here. The guy went on vacation for gosh sakes.


 I'll be also counting on help from the more process-oriented 
 members of the community. One note - 2.068 will be delayed 
 because I have a house move to deal with for the time being, 
 not to mention being busy with std.allocator and std.collection.


Release positions are not exactly and enticing role. So good luck 
with this having this particular attitude....



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github 
 access will remain the same for the time being.


I think that was unnecessarily harsh and unilateral, not to 
mention demotivating (to both Martin and any people who 
considered the role). What do you mean by "for the time being" 
exactly?


 We are therefore looking for a new release czar.


I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and 
infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know 
nightly builds have been discussed for years, and it would be 
great to take advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of 
the current autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's 
going to happen.



 Jun 17 2015



 next sibling parent reply "IgorStepanov" <wazar mail.ru>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github 
 access will remain the same for the time being.


 I think that was unnecessarily harsh and unilateral, not to 
 mention demotivating (to both Martin and any people who 
 considered the role). What do you mean by "for the time being" 
 exactly?


 We are therefore looking for a new release czar.


 I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and 
 infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know 
 nightly builds have been discussed for years, and it would be 
 great to take advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of 
 the current autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's 
 going to happen.


Sorry for this post but...
Is it possible to remove disscusiion about relligions, 
nationalities and relations of them?
This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of 
intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet.

I am surprised that disscussion, started by one troll passersby, 
doesn't stopped now.
Camrades, do not answer to troll posts. Just ignore it. I do not 
understand how something can be to try to answer such posts 
dripping fat as that from which it started.



 Jun 17 2015



  parent reply ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org>  writes:


On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +0000, IgorStepanov wrote:


 This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of
 intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet.


we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The=20
Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer can=20
become D programmer.=



 Jun 18 2015



 next sibling parent  "Dennis Ritchie" <dennis.ritchie mail.ru>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 09:05:27 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github 
 access will remain the same for the time being.


 I'm speechless.


+1

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 11:14:25 UTC, ketmar wrote:

 On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +0000, IgorStepanov wrote:


 This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of 
 intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet.


 we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't 
 see The Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. 
 and programmer can become D programmer.


Well said!



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling  parent reply Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com>  writes:


On 06/18/2015 07:14 AM, ketmar wrote:

 On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +0000, IgorStepanov wrote:


 This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of
 intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet.


 we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The
 Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer can
 become D programmer.


It was a joke.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org>  writes:


On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:34:43 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:


 On 06/18/2015 07:14 AM, ketmar wrote:

 On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +0000, IgorStepanov wrote:


 This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of
 intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet.


 we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The
 Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer
 can become D programmer.


 It was a joke.


i was joking too. ah, the constant problem with my jokes: nobody gets 'em.=



 Jun 18 2015



  parent  Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com>  writes:


On 06/18/2015 05:13 PM, ketmar wrote:

 On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:34:43 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:


 On 06/18/2015 07:14 AM, ketmar wrote:

 On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +0000, IgorStepanov wrote:


 This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of
 intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet.


 we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The
 Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer
 can become D programmer.


 It was a joke.


 i was joking too. ah, the constant problem with my jokes: nobody gets 'em.


The joke's on me. :) Didn't read it closely enough!



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Dragos Carp" <dragoscarp gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

 I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and 
 infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars?


Merge dmd, druntime, phobos repos.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply "Etienne" <etcimon gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 12:37:15 UTC, Dragos Carp wrote:

 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
 wrote:

 I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and 
 infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars?


 Merge dmd, druntime, phobos repos.


If I was release Czar, even DMD would just be a dub package. Let 
them be managed packages that can be selected by version, with 
many options! That, my friends, is the way.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org>  writes:


On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:51:05 +0000, Etienne wrote:


 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 12:37:15 UTC, Dragos Carp wrote:

 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and
 infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars?


 Merge dmd, druntime, phobos repos.


=20
 If I was release Czar, even DMD would just be a dub package. Let them be
 managed packages that can be selected by version, with many options!
 That, my friends, is the way.


but there is still no package manager, though. dub is not a package=20
manager. and it's impossible to write one without scraping code.dlang.org=20
too, as there is no API to get package list, or packages that was updated=20
since the date.=



 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply "Etienne" <etcimon gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:08:31 UTC, ketmar wrote:

 On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:51:05 +0000, Etienne wrote:


 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 12:37:15 UTC, Dragos Carp wrote:

 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
 wrote:

 I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and 
 infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars?


 Merge dmd, druntime, phobos repos.


 
 If I was release Czar, even DMD would just be a dub package. 
 Let them be managed packages that can be selected by version, 
 with many options! That, my friends, is the way.


 but there is still no package manager, though. dub is not a 
 package manager. and it's impossible to write one without 
 scraping code.dlang.org too, as there is no API to get package 
 list, or packages that was updated since the date.


Not every package manager has to provide binaries. We simply 
build the packages through dub. dub+dmd is a good source package 
manager in itself, we need to write a dub.json for 
dmd/druntime/phobos and make it possible to compile them through 
dub, then all is good



 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org>  writes:


On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:14:28 +0000, Etienne wrote:


 Not every package manager has to provide binaries. We simply build the
 packages through dub. dub+dmd is a good source package manager in
 itself, we need to write a dub.json for dmd/druntime/phobos and make it
 possible to compile them through dub, then all is good


i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is not=20
a package manager at all.

how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package=20
name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that=20
functionality should be built-in. how can i get compilation flags and=20
dependencies from dub without parsing json, so i can use dub in my build=20
system? (luckily, that seems to be fixed in recent versions, at least i've=20
seen PRs for that)

so i prefer to think about dub and it's "packages" as "dependency=20
downloader", but package manager.=



 Jun 18 2015



 next sibling parent reply "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:30:59 UTC, ketmar wrote:

 On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:14:28 +0000, Etienne wrote:


 [...]


 i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that 
 dub is not a package manager at all.

 how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by 
 package name or in package descriptions? using web site is not 
 an option, that functionality should be built-in. how can i get 
 compilation flags and dependencies from dub without parsing 
 json, so i can use dub in my build system? (luckily, that seems 
 to be fixed in recent versions, at least i've seen PRs for that)

 so i prefer to think about dub and it's "packages" as 
 "dependency downloader", but package manager.


dub is a build tool with an automatic dependency solver, it 
really shouldn't be called a package manager.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org>  writes:


On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:32:12 +0000, weaselcat wrote:


 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:30:59 UTC, ketmar wrote:

 On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:14:28 +0000, Etienne wrote:


 [...]


 i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is
 not a package manager at all.

 how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package
 name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that
 functionality should be built-in. how can i get compilation flags and
 dependencies from dub without parsing json, so i can use dub in my
 build system? (luckily, that seems to be fixed in recent versions, at
 least i've seen PRs for that)

 so i prefer to think about dub and it's "packages" as "dependency
 downloader", but package manager.


=20
 dub is a build tool with an automatic dependency solver, it really
 shouldn't be called a package manager.


and it's not a build tool too. or, it's a build tool in the sense of=20
"bash is a build tool" -- it can call external commands. Reggae is a=20
build toold. dub is not a build tool.=



 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply "Etienne" <etcimon gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:37:08 UTC, ketmar wrote:

 dub is a build tool with an automatic dependency solver, it 
 really shouldn't be called a package manager.


 and it's not a build tool too. or, it's a build tool in the 
 sense of "bash is a build tool" -- it can call external 
 commands. Reggae is a build toold. dub is not a build tool.


It doesn't matter. Even if everything is locked into 
code.dlang.org or if you're using a custom shell in the dub.json 
to clone a git and use that path in the options, or if you're 
programming shell scripts for every OS. Any interface works as 
long as it does what it's supposed to do for the said package.

My point is, we need to be able to extend it to build and link an 
application with a custom druntime/phobos/dmd version from 
source. These libraries are the backbone of every application.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org>  writes:


On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:45:26 +0000, Etienne wrote:


 My point is, we need to be able to extend it to build and link an
 application with a custom druntime/phobos/dmd version from source.


exactly what you can do with Reggae. now Reggae needs a good package=20
manager, which dub isn't.=



 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply "Etienne" <etcimon gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 20:58:38 UTC, ketmar wrote:

 On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:45:26 +0000, Etienne wrote:


 My point is, we need to be able to extend it to build and link 
 an application with a custom druntime/phobos/dmd version from 
 source.


 exactly what you can do with Reggae. now Reggae needs a good 
 package manager, which dub isn't.


I'm not sure how you put 2 and 2 together to come up with Reggae. 
It seems to be an executable generator with a build 
configuration. It leaves it up to the user to come up with D code 
to figure out the build.

I'm talking about cloning phobos/druntime/dmd github repositories 
and automatically building them. No messing around with 
environment variables and such.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent  ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org>  writes:


On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 02:00:41 +0000, Etienne wrote:


 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 20:58:38 UTC, ketmar wrote:

 On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:45:26 +0000, Etienne wrote:


 My point is, we need to be able to extend it to build and link an
 application with a custom druntime/phobos/dmd version from source.


 exactly what you can do with Reggae. now Reggae needs a good package
 manager, which dub isn't.


=20
 I'm not sure how you put 2 and 2 together to come up with Reggae.
 It seems to be an executable generator with a build configuration. It
 leaves it up to the user to come up with D code to figure out the build.
=20
 I'm talking about cloning phobos/druntime/dmd github repositories and
 automatically building them. No messing around with environment
 variables and such.


ah, that's easy: simply include Reggae build script into the package.=20
even half-assed package managers can include custom install/build scripts=20
into packages and execute them. so is dub is package manager...=



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling  parent reply Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com>  writes:


On 06/18/2015 10:30 AM, ketmar wrote:

 i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is not
 a package manager at all.

 how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package
 name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that
 functionality should be built-in.


Those sound like excellent ideas for new pull requests.
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dub/compare



 Jun 18 2015



  parent  ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org>  writes:


On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:40:21 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:


 On 06/18/2015 10:30 AM, ketmar wrote:

 i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is
 not a package manager at all.

 how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package
 name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that
 functionality should be built-in.


=20
 Those sound like excellent ideas for new pull requests.
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dub/compare


sadly, i can't PR on web API, as i don't have mongodb, and i know nothing=20
about it (except "i don't want to know more about it" ;-). so the only=20
real thing i can do is to be irritatingly vocal about that features, in=20
the hope that someone will write 'em.=



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling  parent reply "Mike" <none none.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:


 I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and 
 infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know 
 nightly builds have been discussed for years, and it would be 
 great to take advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of 
 the current autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's 
 going to happen.


In addition, I recommend taking a look at, providing feedback, 
and futhering the development of reggae [1] [2] [3] [4].

[1] Repository - https://github.com/atilaneves/reggae
[2] Initial Post - 
http://forum.dlang.org/post/ranqlmrjornlvopsuris forum.dlang.org
[3] Phobos Test - 
http://forum.dlang.org/post/kjbmzcnhhzlimfkjcsan forum.dlang.org
[4] Further Enhancements - 
http://forum.dlang.org/post/znaffgxodfpnjwggpwok forum.dlang.org

In D, we have this extremely powerful, expressive, and even 
beautiful language for describing and automating the most complex 
of processes, yet we resort to headaches like makefiles to 
automate our own work.  It's seems asinine.  I threw away make as 
soon as I discovered rdmd.  No makefiles, no json, no new file 
format to learn, no new syntax to learn, no new tool to learn, no 
external platform-specific dependencies;  just the one tool we 
know and love: the D programming language.

If we want more D progrmmers involved in the building, 
verification, and packaging of our core tools, let's do it in D.

Mike



 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply "Atila Neves" <atila.neves gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:15:37 UTC, Mike wrote:

 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
 wrote:


 I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and 
 infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know 
 nightly builds have been discussed for years, and it would be 
 great to take advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure 
 of the current autotester for it, but it doesn't look like 
 that's going to happen.


 In addition, I recommend taking a look at, providing feedback, 
 and futhering the development of reggae [1] [2] [3] [4].

 [1] Repository - https://github.com/atilaneves/reggae
 [2] Initial Post - 
 http://forum.dlang.org/post/ranqlmrjornlvopsuris forum.dlang.org
 [3] Phobos Test - 
 http://forum.dlang.org/post/kjbmzcnhhzlimfkjcsan forum.dlang.org
 [4] Further Enhancements - 
 http://forum.dlang.org/post/znaffgxodfpnjwggpwok forum.dlang.org

 In D, we have this extremely powerful, expressive, and even 
 beautiful language for describing and automating the most 
 complex of processes, yet we resort to headaches like makefiles 
 to automate our own work.  It's seems asinine.  I threw away 
 make as soon as I discovered rdmd.  No makefiles, no json, no 
 new file format to learn, no new syntax to learn, no new tool 
 to learn, no external platform-specific dependencies;  just the 
 one tool we know and love: the D programming language.

 If we want more D progrmmers involved in the building, 
 verification, and packaging of our core tools, let's do it in D.


I'm going to carry on trying to convert posix.mak to a D 
description in reggae on a branch of my phobos clone, basically a 
continuation of [2] above.

The idea is to replicate the exact behaviour and targets, submit 
a pull request to add the reggaefile.d file and have people try 
it out and see how they like it.

I'd do the Windows makefiles too but there's a dmd bug preventing 
reggae from compiling at all on that platform. I might fix the 
bug myself.

In the meanwhile I'm busy enough with std.experimental.testing. 
Nevermind "life", "girlfriend" and that really annoying timesink 
called "job".

Atila



 Jun 18 2015



  parent  ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org>  writes:


On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 20:41:44 +0000, Atila Neves wrote:


 I'm going to carry on trying to convert posix.mak to a D description in
 reggae on a branch of my phobos clone, basically a continuation of [2]
 above.
=20
 The idea is to replicate the exact behaviour and targets, submit a pull
 request to add the reggaefile.d file and have people try it out and see
 how they like it.


i'm already like it! ;-)=



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?=  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about 
 this unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the 
 worst […]


You thought he was dead?

O_o

I can virtually picture thousands of volunteers lining up now…



 Jun 17 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "Tofu Ninja" <emmons0 purdue.edu>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github 
 access will remain the same for the time being.
 Thanks,

 Andrei


https://sonnekfit.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/anchorman.jpg



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "John Colvin" <john.loughran.colvin gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about 
 this unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the 
 worst because he seemed one of the most serious people I've 
 dealt with, so this came as quite a major breakage of trust.

 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github 
 access will remain the same for the time being.


We have limited resources. Don't squeeze them out by ruling with 
an iron fist on laws only you were aware of. I'm pretty sure if 
Martin knew that you saw it as unacceptable to be away for a 
brief period he would have made preparations.

This is off-putting for me as someone who is getting steadily 
more involved in D, what other implicit contracts do you think 
we've all signed?



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Marc =?UTF-8?B?U2Now7x0eiI=?= <schuetzm gmx.net>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github 
 access will remain the same for the time being.


I'm speechless.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent  "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 09:05:27 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote:

 On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github 
 access will remain the same for the time being.


 I'm speechless.


+1



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Joakim" <dlang joakim.fea.st>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up 
 at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs 
 some level of planning, barring exceptional events. For 
 example, Adam could tell his readership "I'll be on vacation 
 next week, so no issue on August 9". Which is totally fine.

 I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about 
 this unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the 
 worst because he seemed one of the most serious people I've 
 dealt with, so this came as quite a major breakage of trust.

 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github 
 access will remain the same for the time being.

 Until a replacement is found I will fumble with the release 
 process myself, and I could use all the help I can get. In fact 
 it would be a nice gesture of Martin to help with the 
 transition. I'll be also counting on help from the more 
 process-oriented members of the community. One note - 2.068 
 will be delayed because I have a house move to deal with for 
 the time being, not to mention being busy with std.allocator 
 and std.collection.


As most others here have noted, this seems too harsh, 
particularly for a volunteer position.  The truth is that release 
manager is a role that basically nobody wants to do, as it has 
responsibilities but basically no compensating reward, and by 
removing Martin from the role, you might actually have made his 
life easier!  It doesn't sound like a punishment to me.  As I 
recall, our last release manager also disappeared for awhile, 
likely because he had a real job to do.

Martin probably made a mistake by not making clear that he would 
be away from contact for a while, but I wonder if it was ever 
made clear to him that a head's up was expected, particularly if 
a release wasn't imminent.  I understand that you would like for 
us "to evolve from a tribe to an organization," but I always 
thought that was unrealistic for a volunteer community with 
essentially no money coming in.  The fact is nobody is paying 
Martin to show up at a "release manager" desk every day.

Unless and until companies using D, like Facebook, Sociomantic, 
EMSI, and whoever else is using the work of this community to 
make money for themselves, deign to invest back some money behind 
functions like these- release manager could probably be done as a 
half-time position- they will not be done to the standards of a 
commercial entity.  Which is likely fine with the rest of this 
volunteer community, as we can't ask for what we're not willing 
to chip into providing either.



 Jun 18 2015



 next sibling parent  ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org>  writes:


On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:09:44 +0000, Joakim wrote:


 basically nobody wants to do, as it has responsibilities but basically
 no compensating reward, and by removing Martin from the role, you might
 actually have made his life easier!  It doesn't sound like a punishment
 to me.


exactly. being free of that work is a blessing. especially if we consider=20
the absense of working non-abstract roadmap (and even if there will be=20
one, how can people be forced to work on it instead of working on what=20
they want to?).

Andrei is passionate, but little too harsh. at least that's how i see it.=



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling  parent  "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?=  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 10:09:45 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 Martin probably made a mistake by not making clear that he 
 would be away from contact for a while, but I wonder if it was


I don't think it matters if Martin did or did not make a mistake. 
Everybody make mistakes and talk past each other. Period. That's 
to be expected and can be addressed in an enjoyable manner, but 
is harder to do in written media (finding a path where the humour 
in the situation overtakes over the perceived seriousness). So we 
need to be conscious about finding those paths to the more loose 
non-formal atmosphere.

What matters is that the community needs to pay the price of 
having skilled people volunteer. And the only payment to 
available is to make the task enjoyable. Most people find the 
more loose non-formal atmosphere enjoyable, I think.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Craig Dillabaugh" <craig.dillabaugh gmail.com>  writes:


On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 6/17/15 5:38 AM, IgorStepanov wrote:

 He returned back to github and posted some messages. End 
 alarm:)


 Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release 
 managers is still there.

 The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two 
 ones somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an 
 actual "job", in the sense that regularity and professionalism 
 are crucial. You need to "show up" and do it. If "This Week in 
 D" is not there on Sunday evening, it's not a weekly. If we 
 have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't 
 release. In the future we'll have folks depending on this and 
 planning ahead for it.

 You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up 
 at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs 
 some level of planning, barring exceptional events. For 
 example, Adam could tell his readership "I'll be on vacation 
 next week, so no issue on August 9". Which is totally fine.

 I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about 
 this unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the 
 worst because he seemed one of the most serious people I've 
 dealt with, so this came as quite a major breakage of trust.

 With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github 
 access will remain the same for the time being.

 Until a replacement is found I will fumble with the release 
 process myself, and I could use all the help I can get. In fact 
 it would be a nice gesture of Martin to help with the 
 transition. I'll be also counting on help from the more 
 process-oriented members of the community. One note - 2.068 
 will be delayed because I have a house move to deal with for 
 the time being, not to mention being busy with std.allocator 
 and std.collection.


 Thanks,

 Andrei


As others have said this seems a bit harsh.  I presume that by 
'we' you mean that yourself and Walter arrived at this decision 
together?

If you really felt the need to remove Martin from this position, 
the appropriate way would have been to discuss this matter with 
him privately, rather than effectively firing him on a public 
forum.  That also comes across as somewhat unprofessional.

Based on the the discussion on the forum it appears that the 
manner in which this decision has been executed has effectively 
alienated pretty every good candidate who might have been a 
replacement ... in addition to almost starting an OT religious 
holy war.



 Jun 18 2015



 next sibling parent  "anonymous" <anonymous anonymous.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 13:40:43 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote:

 As others have said this seems a bit harsh.  I presume that by 
 'we' you mean that yourself and Walter arrived at this decision 
 together?

 If you really felt the need to remove Martin from this 
 position, the appropriate way would have been to discuss this 
 matter with him privately, rather than effectively firing him 
 on a public forum.  That also comes across as somewhat 
 unprofessional.


Exactly. One reason why people may decide to contribute to D, is
because they'd like to add it to their resume (a small piece of
compensation for their time). However, these forums can and do
show up in Google searches and publicly outing somebody using 
their
full name, is unprofessional in this context. Now the one small
benefit he may have gotten from contributing, is potentially 
squashed
due to carelessness on the leadership of this community. As a 
potential
contributor, seeing this, is a non-starter.


 Based on the the discussion on the forum it appears that the 
 manner in which this decision has been executed has effectively 
 alienated pretty every good candidate who might have been a 
 replacement ... in addition to almost starting an OT religious 
 holy war.


This entire thread has reflected poorly on the D community. 
Perhaps
the leadership here should take some tips from the Rust guys and
look to improve their handling with the VOLUNTEERS.

If I was Andrei, I'd publicly apologize to Martin for handling 
this
so damn poorly and thank him for his work as volunteer (as many 
have
stated the guy seems to do good work for this community). If I was
Martin, I would not continue on as the release guy, but this kind 
of
gesture might give some hope to those out there in the community.

Part of being a professional is understanding the context you are 
in
and behaving appropriately. This is not a corporation paying 
employees.
This is an opensource project utilizing volunteers who get very 
little
in return.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling  parent  Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com>  writes:


On 06/18/2015 09:40 AM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote:

 Based on the the discussion on the forum it appears that the manner in
 which this decision has been executed has [...]  ... in addition
 to almost starting an OT religious holy war.


That was just an unrelated drive-by-spamming by a random troll with a 
rather weak attempt to make his (their? ;) ) trolling *appear* somehow, 
kind-of, related to the message he replied to.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling  parent reply Martin Nowak <code+news.digitalmars dawg.eu>  writes:


On 06/17/2015 08:35 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your
 desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of
 planning, barring exceptional events.


Yeah that didn't work too well, sorry for the trouble.
I was extremely busy before dconf (that's part of why I missed my
flight) and didn't spend much thought on the release. Probably didn't
take it that serious, given how infrequently we handled it before.

I was also under the impression that people were informed.
http://forum.dlang.org/post/5554D763.1080308 dawg.eu

Interestingly this links back to our missing communication infrastructure.
We should have regular (semi-public) meetings involving all core
contributors to plan development, releases, and everything D.
Private (irregular) email discussion don't cut it, b/c they leave most
people uninformed. The newsgroup doesn't work either, b/c it's too busy
with daily news.

We pay a lot for the lack of communication (it's key in a more
hierarchical structure), b/c noone but Walter and you can push something
on the development agenda without a screaming rant on the newsgroup.
This is a main reason why so much work gets stuck/killed in the pull
request stage (who could have discussed it before), and also the main
reason why we rarely collaborate on topics.

-Martin



 Jun 19 2015



 next sibling parent reply "Joakim" <dlang joakim.fea.st>  writes:


On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 16:02:34 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:

 On 06/17/2015 08:35 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show 
 up at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff 
 needs some level of planning, barring exceptional events.


 Yeah that didn't work too well, sorry for the trouble.
 I was extremely busy before dconf (that's part of why I missed 
 my
 flight) and didn't spend much thought on the release. Probably 
 didn't
 take it that serious, given how infrequently we handled it 
 before.

 I was also under the impression that people were informed. 
 http://forum.dlang.org/post/5554D763.1080308 dawg.eu


That post says you'd be back on June 7th, whereas Andrei posted 
that he couldn't find you on June 17th.  Typo?


 Interestingly this links back to our missing communication 
 infrastructure.
 We should have regular (semi-public) meetings involving all core
 contributors to plan development, releases, and everything D.
 Private (irregular) email discussion don't cut it, b/c they 
 leave most
 people uninformed. The newsgroup doesn't work either, b/c it's 
 too busy
 with daily news.

 We pay a lot for the lack of communication (it's key in a more 
 hierarchical structure), b/c noone but Walter and you can push 
 something on the development agenda without a screaming rant on 
 the newsgroup. This is a main reason why so much work gets 
 stuck/killed in the pull request stage (who could have 
 discussed it before), and also the main reason why we rarely 
 collaborate on topics.


All these and your suggestions in the linked thread seem like 
worthwhile improvements.  The impression I get is that everyone 
in the core team is too busy with their real jobs, other than 
Walter, to make meetings easy to coordinate.  Not sure of a ready 
solution for that.



 Jun 19 2015



  parent reply Martin Nowak <code+news.digitalmars dawg.eu>  writes:


On 06/19/2015 06:26 PM, Joakim wrote:

 The impression I get is that everyone in the core team is too busy with
 their real jobs, other than Walter, to make meetings easy to
 coordinate.  Not sure of a ready solution for that.


Being to busy is no excuse for important things like this, b/c we're
wasting lots of time on this.

Meetings are easy, due to the different timezones synchronous meetings
will hardly work, but an asynchronous meeting on a mailing list does.
Which also comes with the usual e-mail benefit, people think a lot more
before hitting send.

Basically a biweekly sprint meeting to plan our trello board and discuss
other stuff would suffice.
http://forum.dlang.org/post/55586D5B.8020800 dawg.eu



 Jun 20 2015



 next sibling parent  Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org>  writes:


On 6/20/15 2:37 AM, Martin Nowak wrote:

 Basically a biweekly sprint meeting to plan our trello board and discuss
 other stuff would suffice.
 http://forum.dlang.org/post/55586D5B.8020800 dawg.eu


A biweekly meeting would be great. -- Andrei



 Jun 20 2015



prev sibling  parent reply Shachar Shemesh <shachar weka.io>  writes:


On 20/06/15 12:37, Martin Nowak wrote:

 Which also comes with the usual e-mail benefit, people think a lot more
 before hitting send.


You talk like someone who's never seen a flame war.

Shachar



 Jun 20 2015



  parent reply Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com>  writes:


On 21 Jun 2015 08:55, "Shachar Shemesh via Digitalmars-d" <
digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:

 On 20/06/15 12:37, Martin Nowak wrote:

 Which also comes with the usual e-mail benefit, people think a lot more
 before hitting send.


 You talk like someone who's never seen a flame war.

 Shachar


My preferred tactic is to start writing a heated email in response to some
comment, or some commit, or some pull request.  But instead of hitting
send, I stop, print it out, then discard the draft.



 Jun 21 2015



  parent  "extrawurst" <stephan extrawurst.org>  writes:


On Sunday, 21 June 2015 at 09:14:26 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:

 On 21 Jun 2015 08:55, "Shachar Shemesh via Digitalmars-d" < 
 digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:

 On 20/06/15 12:37, Martin Nowak wrote:

 Which also comes with the usual e-mail benefit, people think 
 a lot more before hitting send.


 You talk like someone who's never seen a flame war.

 Shachar


 My preferred tactic is to start writing a heated email in 
 response to some comment, or some commit, or some pull request.
  But instead of hitting send, I stop, print it out, then 
 discard the draft.


Excellent tactic and you are in good company with that strategy: 
http://tommykiedis.com/the-letter-lincoln-never-sent/



 Jun 21 2015



prev sibling  parent reply "Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= <jacques.mueller gmx.de>  writes:


On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 16:02:34 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:

 Interestingly this links back to our missing communication 
 infrastructure.
 We should have regular (semi-public) meetings involving all core
 contributors to plan development, releases, and everything D.
 Private (irregular) email discussion don't cut it, b/c they 
 leave most
 people uninformed. The newsgroup doesn't work either, b/c it's 
 too busy
 with daily news.

 We pay a lot for the lack of communication (it's key in a more 
 hierarchical structure), b/c noone but Walter and you can push 
 something on the development agenda without a screaming rant on 
 the newsgroup. This is a main reason why so much work gets 
 stuck/killed in the pull request stage (who could have 
 discussed it before), and also the main reason why we rarely 
 collaborate on topics.

 -Martin


You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even 
Let's Chat.



 Jun 19 2015



  parent reply Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com>  writes:


On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, "Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= 
<jacques.mueller gmx.de>" wrote:

 You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even Let's Chat.


Or irq.



 Jun 19 2015



 next sibling parent reply "Brad Anderson" <eco gnuk.net>  writes:


On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 19:27:09 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, "Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= 
 <jacques.mueller gmx.de>" wrote:

 You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or 
 even Let's Chat.


 Or irq.


IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds 
horrible.

Andrei comes in IRC occasionally (less lately, he used to be in 
there daily).

It's a shame we don't have more core devs in there. It's a fairly 
active channel with a couple hundred people at any given time.



 Jun 19 2015



 next sibling parent reply "Brad Anderson" <eco gnuk.net>  writes:


On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 21:00:27 UTC, Brad Anderson wrote:

 On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 19:27:09 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, "Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= 
 <jacques.mueller gmx.de>" wrote:

 You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or 
 even Let's Chat.


 Or irq.


 IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds 
 horrible.

 Andrei comes in IRC occasionally (less lately, he used to be in 
 there daily).

 It's a shame we don't have more core devs in there. It's a 
 fairly active channel with a couple hundred people at any given 
 time.


That's #d on freenode, I should say (even though freenode is kind 
of the obvious place for open source projects these days).



 Jun 19 2015



  parent  Rikki Cattermole <alphaglosined gmail.com>  writes:


On 20/06/2015 9:03 a.m., Brad Anderson wrote:

 On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 21:00:27 UTC, Brad Anderson wrote:

 On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 19:27:09 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, "Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?=
 <jacques.mueller gmx.de>" wrote:

 You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even
 Let's Chat.


 Or irq.


 IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds horrible.

 Andrei comes in IRC occasionally (less lately, he used to be in there
 daily).

 It's a shame we don't have more core devs in there. It's a fairly
 active channel with a couple hundred people at any given time.


 That's #d on freenode, I should say (even though freenode is kind of the
 obvious place for open source projects these days).


We even have a channel on OFTC!
Again #d.



 Jun 19 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com>  writes:


On 06/19/2015 05:00 PM, Brad Anderson wrote:

 On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 19:27:09 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, "Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?=
 <jacques.mueller gmx.de>" wrote:

 You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even Let's
 Chat.


 Or irq.


 IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds horrible.


Erm...that's right, "chat" doesn't start with "q" :)



 Jun 19 2015



prev sibling  parent reply David Gileadi <gileadis NSPMgmail.com>  writes:


On 6/19/15 2:00 PM, Brad Anderson wrote:

 IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds hor-


It sure does! :)



 Jun 19 2015



  parent  Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com>  writes:


On 06/19/2015 05:25 PM, David Gileadi wrote:

 On 6/19/15 2:00 PM, Brad Anderson wrote:

 IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds hor-


 It sure does! :)


Hah, I see what you did there... :)



 Jun 19 2015



prev sibling  parent  "Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= <jacques.mueller gmx.de>  writes:


On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 19:27:09 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, "Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= 
 <jacques.mueller gmx.de>" wrote:

 You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or 
 even Let's Chat.


 Or irq.


With IRC you could miss a conversation. Teamchats allow to browse 
and even search the entire chat history. Also they include 
integrations to github and others. It's just more comfortable.



 Jun 20 2015



prev sibling  parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org>  writes:


Thanks all for the feedback; a follow up is in order seeing as there are 
a few misunderstandings of the situation.

First off, framing this matter as impinging on someone's vacation is a 
misinterpretation. Taking time off has nothing to do with it - anyone 
should. Just Walter, myself, the "This Week in D" author, and the 
release manager please let us know so things can be planned accordingly.

To thrive, we need to expand the inner circle of folks who are closely 
involved with D to the extent the community knows why they're missing 
when they're missing. Currently that circle includes only Walter and 
myself; if either of us would go dark for weeks without the other (and 
others) knowing, that'd be worrisome.

To wit, I wrote this to Martin and Walter on May 31st:

====
Today is May 31st, so we're entering the last month of H1. I'd like to 
get an early start on updating the vision document, and before creating 
yet another rambling thread on the forum I thought we should start 
between the three of us.

What do you guys think would be the main points to attack in H2? Martin, 
it's particularly important to hear from you.
====

I hope it's clearer that it was quite unsettling to not hear back about 
that or anything else.

Regarding the volunteer vs. paid employee aspect - clearly that's a 
problem. All I can do now is work on the foundation and hope to find 
sponsors that would allow us to pay the release manager, the keeper of 
"This Week in D" and others.

About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless 
attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is 
of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I 
could think of.

Building the process is a difficult and very important job. It stands to 
reason, then, that we need several folks who can do it and cover 
contingencies. Martin and I are in talks about building this release 
together; it would be great if we could get a broader participation.

There's one more note of interest:


 This is off-putting for me as someone who is getting steadily more
 involved in D, what other implicit contracts do you think we've all
 signed?


None, of course. Far as I can tell the dynamics are as follows:

* Walter and I can be counted on being around barring announced absences 
or exceptional circumstances.

* Adam D. Ruppe, Walter, and I discussed that there will be consistency 
of "This Week in D". Announced outages are fine, "I'll do it when/if I 
get to it" is not.

* The release managers should be counted on for planning and reliably 
carrying the release. I am now sorry I wasn't clearer about that.

* There are a few folks with particularly important roles: Iain (GDC), 
Kai (LDC), Brad (autotester), and Vladimir (forum and a variety of 
tools). If any of these would suddenly leave, the community would be in 
difficulty. They work independently and I wish we found ways to pay them 
and coordinate better with them, but there is no implied or express 
expectation.

* There are a number of heavy-hitting contributors (such as Daniel, 
Kenji, and about a dozen others) who have a strong positive impact. 
Again there is no expectation they're around.

* Up-and-coming contributors are always welcome and we should improve 
our tooling to make it easy for anyone to contribute.

Probably the best action item is this:


 I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and
 infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know nightly
 builds have been discussed for years, and it would be great to take
 advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of the current
 autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.


Yah, ideally the autotester would just build the release as well for 
each platform on the same machines it's using. Sadly Brad wouldn't want 
to take that task.

One thing I'll be trying to work on with Martin is a directory under 
tools/ that contains reasonably stable release building scripts for all 
platforms.


Andrei



 Jun 18 2015



 next sibling parent  "anonymous" <anonymous anonymous.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 To wit, I wrote this to Martin and Walter on May 31st:

 ====
 Today is May 31st, so we're entering the last month of H1. I'd 
 like to get an early start on updating the vision document, and 
 before creating yet another rambling thread on the forum I 
 thought we should start between the three of us.

 What do you guys think would be the main points to attack in 
 H2? Martin, it's particularly important to hear from you.
 ====

 I hope it's clearer that it was quite unsettling to not hear 
 back about that or anything else.

 Regarding the volunteer vs. paid employee aspect - clearly 
 that's a problem. All I can do now is work on the foundation 
 and hope to find sponsors that would allow us to pay the 
 release manager, the keeper of "This Week in D" and others.

 About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated 
 fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in 
 person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've 
 tried through all channels I could think of.


So you can't get a hold of him by email for a few weeks, thus you
feel justified in publicly outing him on a forum? This could have
still been done far more discretely with a conscious attempt to
avoid addressing him directly in any negative overtones. Your
inability to recognize this mistake illustrates a fundamental
disconnect I think you are having.


 Building the process is a difficult and very important job. It 
 stands to reason, then, that we need several folks who can do 
 it and cover contingencies. Martin and I are in talks about 
 building this release together; it would be great if we could 
 get a broader participation.


You are very lucky that Martin has decided to *continue* to help
you out. Again, a good sign that your characterization of the guy
was malformed.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "Craig Dillabaugh" <craig.dillabaugh gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 Thanks all for the feedback; a follow up is in order seeing as 
 there are a few misunderstandings of the situation.

 [...]


clip

 Yah, ideally the autotester would just build the release as 
 well for each platform on the same machines it's using. Sadly 
 Brad wouldn't want to take that task.

 [...]


Since I was one of those to criticize, let me be the one of the 
first to say thanks to Andrei for posting this response.  Glad to 
hear Martin will still be involved in the release process.

Hope you enjoyed your holiday Martin :o)



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com>  writes:


On 06/18/2015 10:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 One thing I'll be trying to work on with Martin is a directory under
 tools/ that contains reasonably stable release building scripts for all
 platforms.


What happened to the one I contributed last year? If there's bitrot or 
other issues that needs addressing, then by all means, either ping me   
GitHub or email me at "nick1"   my domain name in this message's header. 
Both are set up to go straight to my phone.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent  "Martin Nowak" <code dawg.eu>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:02:19 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 What happened to the one I contributed last year? If there's 
 bitrot or other issues that needs addressing, then by all 
 means, either ping me   GitHub or email me at "nick1"   my 
 domain name in this message's header. Both are set up to go 
 straight to my phone.


We still use that as the basis, but as you see people way too 
little about those tools.
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/installer/tree/master/create_dmd_release



 Jun 20 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "Dennis Ritchie" <dennis.ritchie mail.ru>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

[...]


Yes, D need more people, more sponsors, the most...
Unfortunately, the development of language is carried out slowly 
enough bug fixes too slowly. I learn more D six months and I have 
to admit that whatever you do, it all looks very slowly and 
slightly.
We need more people, but no one knows where to look for them :)
And, yes, you definitely need a second release czar!
More people for the development of D. We need to look for them 
promptly, otherwise the development will go is still very slow.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent reply Timon Gehr <timon.gehr gmx.ch>  writes:


On 06/18/2015 04:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless
 attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is
 of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I
 could think of.


I think the first post was more adequate than the second one. Basically, 
a more eloquent version of the following would have sufficed:


 Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is still
there.

 The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two somewhat special
 in the community: regularity  is crucial. If we have no release manager and no
 contingency plan, we can't release.





 Jun 18 2015



  parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org>  writes:


On 6/18/15 9:19 AM, Timon Gehr wrote:

 On 06/18/2015 04:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless
 attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is
 of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I
 could think of.


 I think the first post was more adequate than the second one. Basically,
 a more eloquent version of the following would have sufficed:


 Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is
 still there.

 The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two somewhat
 special
 in the community: regularity  is crucial. If we have no release
 manager and no
 contingency plan, we can't release.




I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have 
done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after 
evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable 
communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the 
public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the 
community for not taking that course of action.

We definitely need to move forward to having more release czars, which 
reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to learn the ropes and 
document the process.


Andrei



 Jun 18 2015



 next sibling parent  "Laeeth Isharc" <Laeeth.nospam nospam-laeeth.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:41:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 6/18/15 9:19 AM, Timon Gehr wrote:

 On 06/18/2015 04:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated 
 fruitless
 attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, 
 privately, is
 of course the right way and the one I've tried through all 
 channels I
 could think of.


 I think the first post was more adequate than the second one. 
 Basically,
 a more eloquent version of the following would have sufficed:


 Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release 
 managers is
 still there.

 The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two 
 somewhat
 special
 in the community: regularity  is crucial. If we have no 
 release
 manager and no
 contingency plan, we can't release.




 I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I 
 should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach 
 Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and 
 well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with 
 him, and only after that resume the public search for more 
 release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not 
 taking that course of action.

 We definitely need to move forward to having more release 
 czars, which reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to 
 learn the ropes and document the process.



 Andrei


Respect - both for having high standards, and for this message.


Laeeth.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "Mattcoder" <stop spam.com.br>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:41:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I 
 should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach 
 Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and 
 well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with 
 him, and only after that resume the public search for more 
 release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not 
 taking that course of action.


Now you are talking! Thanks for being humble enough, I was a bit 
scared for your second post, but now I think everything is fine! 
:)

Matheus.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "deadalnix" <deadalnix gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:41:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I 
 should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach 
 Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and 
 well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with 
 him, and only after that resume the public search for more 
 release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not 
 taking that course of action.

 We definitely need to move forward to having more release 
 czars, which reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to 
 learn the ropes and document the process.


 Andrei


Amen.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling  parent reply Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com>  writes:


On 06/18/2015 12:41 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have
 done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after
 evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable
 communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the
 public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the
 community for not taking that course of action.

 We definitely need to move forward to having more release czars, which
 reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to learn the ropes and
 document the process.


I'm not sure I can commit to any guarantees, at least not on the level 
of a "primary release czar" anyway, but I'd be willing to pitch in when 
needed as a secondary or backup or such. I'd just need a better idea of 
what exactly the role entails. If you can document the process as you 
suggest here, that would be a big help.



 Jun 18 2015



  parent  "weaselcat" <weaselcat gmail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 18:55:52 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 On 06/18/2015 12:41 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

[...]


 I'm not sure I can commit to any guarantees, at least not on 
 the level of a "primary release czar" anyway, but I'd be 
 willing to pitch in when needed as a secondary or backup or 
 such. I'd just need a better idea of what exactly the role 
 entails. If you can document the process as you suggest here, 
 that would be a big help.


this, I'd be happy to help with smaller tasks. Maybe expecting 
one or two people to do the entire process is too much.



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling next sibling parent  "Morbid.Obesity" <Morbid.Obesity mail.com>  writes:


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 Thanks all for the feedback; a follow up is in order seeing as 
 there are a few misunderstandings of the situation.

 First off, framing this matter as impinging on someone's 
 vacation is a misinterpretation. Taking time off has nothing to 
 do with it - anyone should. Just Walter, myself, the "This Week 
 in D" author, and the release manager please let us know so 
 things can be planned accordingly.

 To thrive, we need to expand the inner circle of folks who are 
 closely involved with D to the extent the community knows why 
 they're missing when they're missing. Currently that circle 
 includes only Walter and myself; if either of us would go dark 
 for weeks without the other (and others) knowing, that'd be 
 worrisome.

 To wit, I wrote this to Martin and Walter on May 31st:

 ====
 Today is May 31st, so we're entering the last month of H1. I'd 
 like to get an early start on updating the vision document, and 
 before creating yet another rambling thread on the forum I 
 thought we should start between the three of us.

 What do you guys think would be the main points to attack in 
 H2? Martin, it's particularly important to hear from you.
 ====

 I hope it's clearer that it was quite unsettling to not hear 
 back about that or anything else.

 Regarding the volunteer vs. paid employee aspect - clearly 
 that's a problem. All I can do now is work on the foundation 
 and hope to find sponsors that would allow us to pay the 
 release manager, the keeper of "This Week in D" and others.

 About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated 
 fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in 
 person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've 
 tried through all channels I could think of.

 Building the process is a difficult and very important job. It 
 stands to reason, then, that we need several folks who can do 
 it and cover contingencies. Martin and I are in talks about 
 building this release together; it would be great if we could 
 get a broader participation.

 There's one more note of interest:


 This is off-putting for me as someone who is getting steadily 
 more
 involved in D, what other implicit contracts do you think 
 we've all
 signed?


 None, of course. Far as I can tell the dynamics are as follows:

 * Walter and I can be counted on being around barring announced 
 absences or exceptional circumstances.

 * Adam D. Ruppe, Walter, and I discussed that there will be 
 consistency of "This Week in D". Announced outages are fine, 
 "I'll do it when/if I get to it" is not.

 * The release managers should be counted on for planning and 
 reliably carrying the release. I am now sorry I wasn't clearer 
 about that.

 * There are a few folks with particularly important roles: Iain 
 (GDC), Kai (LDC), Brad (autotester), and Vladimir (forum and a 
 variety of tools). If any of these would suddenly leave, the 
 community would be in difficulty. They work independently and I 
 wish we found ways to pay them and coordinate better with them, 
 but there is no implied or express expectation.

 * There are a number of heavy-hitting contributors (such as 
 Daniel, Kenji, and about a dozen others) who have a strong 
 positive impact. Again there is no expectation they're around.

 * Up-and-coming contributors are always welcome and we should 
 improve our tooling to make it easy for anyone to contribute.

 Probably the best action item is this:


 I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and
 infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know 
 nightly
 builds have been discussed for years, and it would be great to 
 take
 advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of the current
 autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's going to 
 happen.


 Yah, ideally the autotester would just build the release as 
 well for each platform on the same machines it's using. Sadly 
 Brad wouldn't want to take that task.

 One thing I'll be trying to work on with Martin is a directory 
 under tools/ that contains reasonably stable release building 
 scripts for all platforms.


 Andrei


It sounds to me like you are legitimately doing everything you 
can, that is great!!!! Without people like you, things don't get 
done.

Just remember, some people need a break from things, get upset 
over stupid immature stuff or misunderstandings. Remember, some 
people are more emotionally equipped, or less, depending on your 
perspective, to deal with "things"(life, arguments, etc).

My gut reaction was that you simply overreacted thinking either 
he jumped the boat or got hit by one. Chances are neither 
happened since those are the extremes(of course, you were hoping 
for one or the other so your "disappointment" would be unfounded).

I would simply say, relax! ;) Solve the problem and move on! 
Don't get caught up in it all. Find another *whatever* his job 
was, someone to help him with the work load, or talk to him about 
whatever got his panties in a wad.

In any case, true communication is the best line of defense 
against these problems.

Which, I'm sure you agree and which is what upset you in the 
first place: Since he failed to stay in communication. But this 
came from some previous issues with communication which upset his 
feathers or whatever.

Anyways, not everyone's the same! It's a good thing!



 Jun 18 2015



prev sibling  parent  Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com>  writes:


On 18 June 2015 at 16:43, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d <
digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:


 Thanks all for the feedback; a follow up is in order seeing as there are a
 few misunderstandings of the situation.

 First off, framing this matter as impinging on someone's vacation is a
 misinterpretation. Taking time off has nothing to do with it - anyone
 should. Just Walter, myself, the "This Week in D" author, and the release
 manager please let us know so things can be planned accordingly.

 To thrive, we need to expand the inner circle of folks who are closely
 involved with D to the extent the community knows why they're missing when
 they're missing. Currently that circle includes only Walter and myself; if
 either of us would go dark for weeks without the other (and others)
 knowing, that'd be worrisome.

 To wit, I wrote this to Martin and Walter on May 31st:

 ====
 Today is May 31st, so we're entering the last month of H1. I'd like to get
 an early start on updating the vision document, and before creating yet
 another rambling thread on the forum I thought we should start between the
 three of us.

 What do you guys think would be the main points to attack in H2? Martin,
 it's particularly important to hear from you.
 ====

 I hope it's clearer that it was quite unsettling to not hear back about
 that or anything else.

 Regarding the volunteer vs. paid employee aspect - clearly that's a
 problem. All I can do now is work on the foundation and hope to find
 sponsors that would allow us to pay the release manager, the keeper of
 "This Week in D" and others.

 About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless
 attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is of
 course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I could
 think of.

 Building the process is a difficult and very important job. It stands to
 reason, then, that we need several folks who can do it and cover
 contingencies. Martin and I are in talks about building this release
 together; it would be great if we could get a broader participation.

 There's one more note of interest:

  This is off-putting for me as someone who is getting steadily more

 involved in D, what other implicit contracts do you think we've all
 signed?


 None, of course. Far as I can tell the dynamics are as follows:

 * Walter and I can be counted on being around barring announced absences
 or exceptional circumstances.

 * Adam D. Ruppe, Walter, and I discussed that there will be consistency of
 "This Week in D". Announced outages are fine, "I'll do it when/if I get to
 it" is not.

 * The release managers should be counted on for planning and reliably
 carrying the release. I am now sorry I wasn't clearer about that.

 * There are a few folks with particularly important roles: Iain (GDC), Kai
 (LDC), Brad (autotester), and Vladimir (forum and a variety of tools). If
 any of these would suddenly leave, the community would be in difficulty.
 They work independently and I wish we found ways to pay them and coordinate
 better with them, but there is no implied or express expectation.


Not just GDC, but the whole GNU toolchain support for D too.

Iain



 Jun 18 2015