• deadalnix (1/1) Jan 01 2017 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...
• Walter Bright (2/3) Jan 01 2017 I use Ubuntu as my development system for D on Linux.
• deadalnix (3/6) Jan 01 2017 Then you may want to check that nothing DMD produces will link
• deadalnix (5/12) Jan 01 2017 On a broader note, all my project involving D are on standby
• Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d (13/18) Jan 02 2017 Just use LDC?
• deadalnix (3/12) Jan 02 2017 No. I'd be then stuck with other bugs which would also require
• Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d (21/25) Jan 02 2017 Irrelevant datum.=20
• Elronnd (3/8) Jan 11 2017 I run DMD and GDC both on fedora. I'm not sure why you think
• Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d (14/24) Jan 12 2017 DMD is not packaged by Debian or Fedora.
• Elronnd (3/5) Jan 12 2017 There are RPMs available at dlang.org, and it's trivial to
• Timothee Cour via Digitalmars-d (7/13) Jan 13 2017 osx / linux:
• Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d (15/22) Jan 13 2017 This has no bearing on my original point. DMD is not packaged on Debian
• Elronnd (4/6) Jan 14 2017 What's impractical about downloading and installing an rpm? For
• Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d (34/42) Jan 14 2017 Downloading and installing an RPM outside of dnf.
• Jack Applegame (6/18) Jan 14 2017 What do you mean "outside"?
• Matthias Klumpp (17/38) Jan 14 2017 Still outside because it is not developed as part of Fedora.
• Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d (7/19) Jan 13 2017 And why on earth does having to download the package from dlang.org rath...
• Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d (22/30) Jan 14 2017 On Fri, 2017-01-13 at 18:56 -0800, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d
• =?UTF-8?B?Tm9yZGzDtnc=?= (2/3) Jan 01 2017 2.072.2 was released yesterday. Doesn't that work on Ubuntu 16.10?
• Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d (15/19) Jan 02 2017 But is it in the Debian or Ubuntu (or Mint) repositories? No. This
• deadalnix (4/8) Jan 02 2017 Victory !
• =?UTF-8?B?Tm9yZGzDtnc=?= (4/6) Jan 02 2017 I automate installation of DMD with
• H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d (11/12) Jan 01 2017 I care. But I've been using custom-built DMD on Debian, and it has been
• Martin Nowak (6/16) Jan 02 2017 Linking against shared phobos was just mentioned as immediate
• Basile B. (4/22) Jan 02 2017 Not to mention that not all linux distributions work this way.
• Martin Nowak (9/12) Jan 02 2017 The topic was fairly disputed for RH, but Jakub Jelinek is also
• Jacob Carlborg (4/5) Jan 02 2017 DMD 2.072.2 works for me on Ubuntu 16.10. 2.072.1 does not work.
• Martin Nowak (5/6) Jan 02 2017 It's fairly embarrassing to read so much uninformed noise.
• Martin Nowak (2/5) Jan 02 2017 Not to mention that everyone could have fixed this bug.
• deadalnix (10/16) Jan 02 2017 Everyone could have written a patch, see it not being reviewed
• deadalnix (5/11) Jan 02 2017 Consider that if I'm misinformed, then nobody but you is. Welcome
• Martin Nowak (5/8) Jan 02 2017 Bug reports are dealt with on Bugzilla, shouldn't be surprising.
• deadalnix (11/19) Jan 04 2017 I understand this is frustrating to see users complain about
• Martin Nowak (10/25) Jan 10 2017 No, that's understandable. Also the reason why we started to have
• deadalnix (5/7) Jan 18 2017 Alright, sentence like this come from extreme frustration at

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/1/2017 3:55 PM, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

I use Ubuntu as my development system for D on Linux.

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 00:04:51 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/1/2017 3:55 PM, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

 I use Ubuntu as my development system for D on Linux.

Then you may want to check that nothing DMD produces will link 
because of PIE.

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 01:03:54 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 00:04:51 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/1/2017 3:55 PM, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

 I use Ubuntu as my development system for D on Linux.

 Then you may want to check that nothing DMD produces will link 
 because of PIE.

On a broader note, all my project involving D are on standby 
since this problem occurred. I'd be a business, this'd be the 
time where I would put D into the trash, use something else and 
never look back.

Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

On Mon, 2017-01-02 at 01:06 +0000, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d wrote:
=20

[=E2=80=A6]
 On a broader note, all my project involving D are on standby=C2=A0
 since this problem occurred. I'd be a business, this'd be the=C2=A0
 time where I would put D into the trash, use something else and=C2=A0
 never look back.

Just use LDC?

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 11:15:41 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
 On Mon, 2017-01-02 at 01:06 +0000, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:
 

 […]
 On a broader note, all my project involving D are on standby 
 since this problem occurred. I'd be a business, this'd be the 
 time where I would put D into the trash, use something else 
 and never look back.

 Just use LDC?

No. I'd be then stuck with other bugs which would also require 
month to be fixed.

Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

On Sun, 2017-01-01 at 16:04 -0800, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
 On 1/1/2017 3:55 PM, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

=20
 I use Ubuntu as my development system for D on Linux.

Irrelevant datum.=20

What matters is what programmers out there wanting to use D can use. On
Debian and Fedora DMD is not an option, it's existence is irrelevant
due to all the supposed licencing faff. For Debian and Fedora, LDC is
the only option and the only way. GDC is on Debian but seemingly not on
Fedora.

This is fine. DMD can be the development playground, but it is unlikely
ever to be the primary production compiler, that will be LDC. I think
the D Foundation should put this strategy up front.

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

Elronnd <elronnd em.slashem.me> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 11:15:02 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
 On Sun, 2017-01-01 at 16:04 -0800, Walter Bright via 
 Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On 1/1/2017 3:55 PM, deadalnix wrote:

 On Debian and Fedora DMD is not an option
 GDC is on Debian but seemingly not on Fedora.

I run DMD and GDC both on fedora.  I'm not sure why you think 
they're not there.

Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

On Thu, 2017-01-12 at 04:43 +0000, Elronnd via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 11:15:02 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
 On Sun, 2017-01-01 at 16:04 -0800, Walter Bright via=C2=A0
 Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On 1/1/2017 3:55 PM, deadalnix wrote:

=20
 On Debian and Fedora DMD is not an option
 GDC is on Debian but seemingly not on Fedora.

=20
 I run DMD and GDC both on fedora.=C2=A0=C2=A0I'm not sure why you think=

=C2=A0
 they're not there.

DMD is not packaged by Debian or Fedora.

GDC is packaged by Debian but is not packaged by Fedora.

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

Elronnd <elronnd em.slashem.me> writes:

On Thursday, 12 January 2017 at 09:20:42 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
 DMD is not packaged by Debian or Fedora.

 GDC is packaged by Debian but is not packaged by Fedora.

There are RPMs available at dlang.org, and it's trivial to 
compile GDC.

Timothee Cour via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

osx / linux:
brew install dmd #works
brew install ldc #works

would be nice to have:
brew install gdc


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Elronnd via Digitalmars-d <
digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:

 On Thursday, 12 January 2017 at 09:20:42 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:

 DMD is not packaged by Debian or Fedora.

 GDC is packaged by Debian but is not packaged by Fedora.

 There are RPMs available at dlang.org, and it's trivial to compile GDC.

Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

On Fri, 2017-01-13 at 05:44 +0000, Elronnd via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On Thursday, 12 January 2017 at 09:20:42 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
 DMD is not packaged by Debian or Fedora.
=20
 GDC is packaged by Debian but is not packaged by Fedora.

=20
 There are RPMs available at dlang.org, and it's trivial to=C2=A0
 compile GDC.

This has no bearing on my original point. DMD is not packaged on Debian
and Fedora. GDC is not packaged on Fedora. Thus LDC which is packaged
by both Debian and Fedora is the only practically usable D compiler on
both these platforms.

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

Elronnd <elronnd em.slashem.me> writes:

On Friday, 13 January 2017 at 11:50:25 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:

 LDC which is packaged by both Debian and Fedora is the
 only practically usable D compiler on both these platforms.

What's impractical about downloading and installing an rpm?  For 
that matter, downloading the source and compiling it isn't all 
that impractical either.

Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

On Sat, 2017-01-14 at 17:28 +0000, Elronnd via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On Friday, 13 January 2017 at 11:50:25 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
=20
 LDC which is packaged by both Debian and Fedora is the
 only practically usable D compiler on both these platforms.

=20
 What's impractical about downloading and installing an rpm?=C2=A0=C2=A0Fo=

r=C2=A0
 that matter, downloading the source and compiling it isn't all=C2=A0
 that impractical either.

Downloading and installing an RPM outside of dnf.

For you.

There is little point in debating this on these lines. Your perspective
is of a determined technical person really wanting to get moving with
something. That's great, but is a totally different perspective from
trying to gain traction and have good marketing amongst people who have
no intention of putting themselves out. From a marketing perspective if
it isn't in the aptitude (Debian, Ubuntu, Mint,=E2=80=A6) or dnf (Fedora,
CentOS, RHEL,=E2=80=A6) install area it doesn't exist =E2=80=93 at least in=
 terms of
easy traction.

The upshot of this thread is that downloads from the website should be

system where download is all there is (caveat Chocolatey but it has
very little traction). For MacOS (or whatever it is called this week),
there is MacPorts and Brew and everything D related should be in there.
For Debian, Fedora, Arch, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc. all D related things
should either be in the main repository for the system or (second rate
but=E2=80=A6) in a repository that can be added to the set up. As soon as t=
he
way of installing is "download and install" you are lost. This is not
about the keen folk, this is about the average folk.

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

Jack Applegame <japplegame gmail.com> writes:

On Saturday, 14 January 2017 at 18:41:21 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
 On Sat, 2017-01-14 at 17:28 +0000, Elronnd via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:
 On Friday, 13 January 2017 at 11:50:25 UTC, Russel Winder 
 wrote:
 
 LDC which is packaged by both Debian and Fedora is the
 only practically usable D compiler on both these platforms.

 
 What's impractical about downloading and installing an 
 rpm?  For that matter, downloading the source and compiling it 
 isn't all that impractical either.

 Downloading and installing an RPM outside of dnf.

What do you mean "outside"?
I use DMD on CentOS, and I installed it by command:

yum install 
http://downloads.dlang.org/releases/2.x/2.072.2/dmd-2.072.2-0.fedora.x86_64.rpm

 From your point of view it is "outside" or "inside" of yum?

Matthias Klumpp <mak debian.org> writes:

On Saturday, 14 January 2017 at 23:24:18 UTC, Jack Applegame 
wrote:
 On Saturday, 14 January 2017 at 18:41:21 UTC, Russel Winder 
 wrote:
 On Sat, 2017-01-14 at 17:28 +0000, Elronnd via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:
 On Friday, 13 January 2017 at 11:50:25 UTC, Russel Winder 
 wrote:
 
 LDC which is packaged by both Debian and Fedora is the
 only practically usable D compiler on both these platforms.

 
 What's impractical about downloading and installing an 
 rpm?  For that matter, downloading the source and compiling 
 it isn't all that impractical either.

 Downloading and installing an RPM outside of dnf.

 What do you mean "outside"?
 I use DMD on CentOS, and I installed it by command:

 yum install 
 http://downloads.dlang.org/releases/2.x/2.072.2/dmd-2.072.2-0.fedora.x86_64.rpm

 From your point of view it is "outside" or "inside" of yum?

Still outside because it is not developed as part of Fedora.
One big reason for getting a language's toolchain into the main 
repositories of a distribution that Russel didn't mention yet is 
the additional QA and testing it will get.
For example, the PIE/PIC issue would not have happened at all if 
people were using the tools provided by the distribution, because 
we made sure that every tool we ship works with this change.
Using pieces that are part of the distribution is also way easier 
than getting them from external sources, also mainly because we 
can give a lot of guarantees about software we ship in a 
distribution.

And also, D software that is itself part of the distro will be 
compiled with one of the purely-free compilers anyway, so if you 
target one of those it just makes sense to primarily use LDC or 
GDC to ensure the software works well.

Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

On Friday, January 13, 2017 11:50:25 Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On Fri, 2017-01-13 at 05:44 +0000, Elronnd via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On Thursday, 12 January 2017 at 09:20:42 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
 DMD is not packaged by Debian or Fedora.

 GDC is packaged by Debian but is not packaged by Fedora.

 There are RPMs available at dlang.org, and it's trivial to
 compile GDC.

 This has no bearing on my original point. DMD is not packaged on Debian
 and Fedora. GDC is not packaged on Fedora. Thus LDC which is packaged
 by both Debian and Fedora is the only practically usable D compiler on
 both these platforms.

And why on earth does having to download the package from dlang.org rather
than getting it from the official Debian or Fedora repos make dmd not
practically usable on those distros? Sure, it would be nice if they were in
the official repos, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work or isn't a
completely viable option on those distros.

- Jonathan M Davis

Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

On Fri, 2017-01-13 at 18:56 -0800, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
[=E2=80=A6]
 And why on earth does having to download the package from dlang.org
 rather
 than getting it from the official Debian or Fedora repos make dmd not
 practically usable on those distros? Sure, it would be nice if they
 were in
 the official repos, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work or
 isn't a
 completely viable option on those distros.

Because it involves downloading packages and running your own local
repository from which to install.

For Debian there is D-Apt which is a reasonable half way house (*).
Actually the only house given the licencing problems with DMD. For
Fedora there is nothing. The enthusiasm displayed for trying to do a
Fedora equivalent of D-Apt when I proposed it was so undewhelming, I
gave up even starting.

(*) It should be the only way of getting the packages, replacing the
hosting of files on dlang.org.

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

=?UTF-8?B?Tm9yZGzDtnc=?= <per.nordlow gmail.com> writes:

On Sunday, 1 January 2017 at 23:55:37 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

2.072.2 was released yesterday. Doesn't that work on Ubuntu 16.10?

Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

On Mon, 2017-01-02 at 01:24 +0000, Nordl=C3=B6w via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On Sunday, 1 January 2017 at 23:55:37 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

=20
 2.072.2 was released yesterday. Doesn't that work on Ubuntu 16.10?

But is it in the Debian or Ubuntu (or Mint) repositories? No. This
therefore limits marketing and traction on those platforms. And Fedora.

Once you start using Debian or related, or Fedora, you very quickly
realise that LDC is your friend and the rest are of no consequence.

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 01:24:58 UTC, Nordlöw wrote:
 On Sunday, 1 January 2017 at 23:55:37 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

 2.072.2 was released yesterday. Doesn't that work on Ubuntu 
 16.10?

Victory !

It took some time but here we are. Good to see this is fixed. 
Thanks whoever fixed it!

=?UTF-8?B?Tm9yZGzDtnc=?= <per.nordlow gmail.com> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 01:24:58 UTC, Nordlöw wrote:
 2.072.2 was released yesterday. Doesn't that work on Ubuntu 
 16.10?

I automate installation of DMD with

https://github.com/nordlow/scripts/blob/master/pget_dmd-stable

which was just updated to latest stable

"H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d" <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:

On Sun, Jan 01, 2017 at 11:55:37PM +0000, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

I care. But I've been using custom-built DMD on Debian, and it has been
working so far.

Of course, I don't know about the .deb distribution. A fix was recently
pushed, but I don't know if that fixed the problem.  My solution was
basically to built druntime & phobos with -fPIC so that static
libphobos.a is PIC. But my solution was declined in bugzilla and a
different fix was opted for.  Does that still not work?


T

-- 
Public parking: euphemism for paid parking. -- Flora

Martin Nowak <code dawg.eu> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 02:31:16 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
 On Sun, Jan 01, 2017 at 11:55:37PM +0000, deadalnix via 
 Digitalmars-d wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

 I care. But I've been using custom-built DMD on Debian, and it 
 has been working so far.

 Of course, I don't know about the .deb distribution. A fix was 
 recently pushed, but I don't know if that fixed the problem.  
 My solution was basically to built druntime & phobos with -fPIC 
 so that static libphobos.a is PIC. But my solution was declined 
 in bugzilla and a different fix was opted for.

Linking against shared phobos was just mentioned as immediate 
workaround.

Changing over to -fPIC by default amd64 was one of multiple 
options that had to be carefully evaluated. It's fairly trivial 
to just demand a certain change without considering it's impact.

Basile B. <b2.temp gmx.com> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 13:58:53 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 02:31:16 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
 On Sun, Jan 01, 2017 at 11:55:37PM +0000, deadalnix via 
 Digitalmars-d wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

 I care. But I've been using custom-built DMD on Debian, and it 
 has been working so far.

 Of course, I don't know about the .deb distribution. A fix was 
 recently pushed, but I don't know if that fixed the problem.  
 My solution was basically to built druntime & phobos with 
 -fPIC so that static libphobos.a is PIC. But my solution was 
 declined in bugzilla and a different fix was opted for.

 Linking against shared phobos was just mentioned as immediate 
 workaround.

 Changing over to -fPIC by default amd64 was one of multiple 
 options that had to be carefully evaluated. It's fairly trivial 
 to just demand a certain change without considering it's impact.

Not to mention that not all linux distributions work this way. 
Even not all the debian -> unbntu ones (such as Mint), and 
certainly not the ones based on red hat.

Martin Nowak <code dawg.eu> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 15:11:42 UTC, Basile B. wrote:
 Not to mention that not all linux distributions work this way. 
 Even not all the debian -> unbntu ones (such as Mint), and 
 certainly not the ones based on red hat.

The topic was fairly disputed for RH, but Jakub Jelinek is also 
the author of prelink, and seems a bit biased. There are also IRC 
logs available.
https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1113
It's true that ASLR is only a small security improvement that's 
not even relevant to many programs.
I also ran several benchmarks and didn't found any measurable 
changes. So in the end going with PIC by default seemed OK.

Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:

On 2017-01-02 00:55, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

DMD 2.072.2 works for me on Ubuntu 16.10. 2.072.1 does not work.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

Martin Nowak <code dawg.eu> writes:

On Sunday, 1 January 2017 at 23:55:37 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

It's fairly embarrassing to read so much uninformed noise.

https://trello.com/c/E1LU0SAe/269-issue-16794-deb-not-working-on-ubuntu-16-10-because-of
default-pie-linking (added 5 days after bug report)
http://forum.dlang.org/post/o3ogr0$27hu$1 digitalmars.com
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16794

Martin Nowak <code dawg.eu> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 13:51:15 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 On Sunday, 1 January 2017 at 23:55:37 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

 It's fairly embarrassing to read so much uninformed noise.

Not to mention that everyone could have fixed this bug.

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 13:52:29 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 13:51:15 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 On Sunday, 1 January 2017 at 23:55:37 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

 It's fairly embarrassing to read so much uninformed noise.

 Not to mention that everyone could have fixed this bug.

Everyone could have written a patch, see it not being reviewed 
for a week, ping it on a daily basis, got asked for some changes, 
do the changes, wait another week, go hunt reviewers on IRC, 
finally got it merged, ask if that's possible to get it in the 
next release, get told that the patch was against master rather 
than stable or whatnot, get asked to go through the whole process 
all over again because why would anyone use git cherry pick, 
abandon, wait 6 month to get the fix live.

Yes, that's how it goes.

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 13:51:15 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 On Sunday, 1 January 2017 at 23:55:37 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage...

 It's fairly embarrassing to read so much uninformed noise.

 https://trello.com/c/E1LU0SAe/269-issue-16794-deb-not-working-on-ubuntu-16-10-because-of
default-pie-linking (added 5 days after bug report)
 http://forum.dlang.org/post/o3ogr0$27hu$1 digitalmars.com
 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16794

Consider that if I'm misinformed, then nobody but you is. Welcome 
to the real world. Plus the fix was actually released yesterday, 
so it's not like I'm lagging by much. The internal meddling 
nonsense that's going on is none of any user business.

Martin Nowak <code dawg.eu> writes:

On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 18:18:33 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 Plus the fix was actually released yesterday, so it's not like 
 I'm lagging by much. The internal meddling nonsense that's 
 going on is none of any user business.

Bug reports are dealt with on Bugzilla, shouldn't be surprising.
It's also fairly reasonable to ask you to search the Forum and 
Bugzilla for your topic and progress on that before posting a 
rant.

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

On Tuesday, 3 January 2017 at 00:16:52 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 18:18:33 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 Plus the fix was actually released yesterday, so it's not like 
 I'm lagging by much. The internal meddling nonsense that's 
 going on is none of any user business.

 Bug reports are dealt with on Bugzilla, shouldn't be surprising.
 It's also fairly reasonable to ask you to search the Forum and 
 Bugzilla for your topic and progress on that before posting a 
 rant.

I understand this is frustrating to see users complain about 
something when it looks like it's been fixes ages ago when you 
are the nose into it.

But please understand that as far as D goes, if someone like me 
is not aware of something, it is fair to assume 99% of the 
populace isn't either.

This kind of thing as real effect in the real world. In past Nov, 
I saw 2 professional user drop D because of this kind of 
problems. These users don't complains and just move on to 
something else.

Martin Nowak <code dawg.eu> writes:

On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 at 15:10:48 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 On Tuesday, 3 January 2017 at 00:16:52 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 On Monday, 2 January 2017 at 18:18:33 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 Plus the fix was actually released yesterday, so it's not 
 like I'm lagging by much. The internal meddling nonsense 
 that's going on is none of any user business.

 Bug reports are dealt with on Bugzilla, shouldn't be 
 surprising.
 It's also fairly reasonable to ask you to search the Forum and 
 Bugzilla for your topic and progress on that before posting a 
 rant.

 I understand this is frustrating to see users complain about 
 something when it looks like it's been fixes ages ago when you 
 are the nose into it.

No, that's understandable. Also the reason why we started to have 
regular public plannings on D.internals, to make our priorities 
more transparent and have a place where important topics can be 
raised.
Just firefighting and hopping from rant to rant is horribly 
unfocused and an inefficient prioritization strategy.

Even if communication and professionalism is not yet where we 
want it to be, sentences like

 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage.

are rather frustrating to read.

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

On Wednesday, 11 January 2017 at 00:33:41 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 But it is not clear if anyone cares at this stage.

 are rather frustrating to read.

Alright, sentence like this come from extreme frustration at 
things being almost constantly broken. For instance:

https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17107

As it turns out, this problem is not quite fixed.