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digitalmars.D - Is it possible to set up DConf Asia?

reply =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
Dear all,
    How about set up DConf Asia every year? As far as I know, 
there are a few D  programmers and fans in Asia, but DConf was 
traditionally held in U.S. or Germany before,so that it may be 
not convenient for them to take part in these celebrations.
    Today more and more programmers in Asia are embracing Open 
Source, and many technology conferences have their Asia version 
such like the just concluded LinuxCon + ContainerCon + CloudOpen 
that has been held in Beijing for two years, and the KubeCon + 
CloudNativeCon will be held on Nov in Shanghai this year, and 
many Linux/BSD conferences for Kernel or Distributions have been 
held in Japan, Korea, and so on.
    For programming languages, PyCon APAC has been successfully 
held in many Asian
countries each year. And Gopher China has also been held for many 
years.
    So I wonder if DConf can be held in Asia will be sure to 
greatly expand the influence of D languages, and attract the eyes 
of the largest group of programmers in the world.
    All suggestions are welcome!
Jun 29 2018
next sibling parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:03:19 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 Dear all,
    How about set up DConf Asia every year? As far as I know, 
 there are a few D  programmers and fans in Asia, but DConf was 
 traditionally held in U.S. or Germany before,so that it may be 
 not convenient for them to take part in these celebrations.
    Today more and more programmers in Asia are embracing Open 
 Source, and many technology conferences have their Asia version 
 such like the just concluded LinuxCon + ContainerCon + 
 CloudOpen that has been held in Beijing for two years, and the 
 KubeCon + CloudNativeCon will be held on Nov in Shanghai this 
 year, and many Linux/BSD conferences for Kernel or 
 Distributions have been held in Japan, Korea, and so on.
    For programming languages, PyCon APAC has been successfully 
 held in many Asian
 countries each year. And Gopher China has also been held for 
 many years.
    So I wonder if DConf can be held in Asia will be sure to 
 greatly expand the influence of D languages, and attract the 
 eyes of the largest group of programmers in the world.
    All suggestions are welcome!


I get the sense that the US and Germany have the largest amount 
of heavy D users, which is why all the DConfs so far have been 
held in those two countries. Three of the five largest D Meetup 
groups are in those countries:

https://www.meetup.com/topics/dpl/

However, Ali notes significant interest in his D book in China 
and Russia (also see updated stats later in that thread):

https://forum.dlang.org/post/oarr8l$19rh$1 digitalmars.com

Japan may be in third place for heavy users, as Kenji Hara and a 
few others are significant contributors, and they certainly tweet 
about dlang:

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/dlang

It may be a good forward-looking move to hold one of the next two 
or three DConfs in Japan or Hong Kong, perhaps working with 
Laeeth and the Hong Kong Meetup group.
Jun 29 2018
next sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:20:55 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:03:19 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 Dear all,
    How about set up DConf Asia every year? As far as I know, 
 there are a few D  programmers and fans in Asia, but DConf was 
 traditionally held in U.S. or Germany before,so that it may be 
 not convenient for them to take part in these celebrations.
    Today more and more programmers in Asia are embracing Open 
 Source, and many technology conferences have their Asia 
 version such like the just concluded LinuxCon + ContainerCon + 
 CloudOpen that has been held in Beijing for two years, and the 
 KubeCon + CloudNativeCon will be held on Nov in Shanghai this 
 year, and many Linux/BSD conferences for Kernel or 
 Distributions have been held in Japan, Korea, and so on.
    For programming languages, PyCon APAC has been successfully 
 held in many Asian
 countries each year. And Gopher China has also been held for 
 many years.
    So I wonder if DConf can be held in Asia will be sure to 
 greatly expand the influence of D languages, and attract the 
 eyes of the largest group of programmers in the world.
    All suggestions are welcome!


 I get the sense that the US and Germany have the largest amount 
 of heavy D users, which is why all the DConfs so far have been 
 held in those two countries. Three of the five largest D Meetup 
 groups are in those countries:

 https://www.meetup.com/topics/dpl/

 However, Ali notes significant interest in his D book in China 
 and Russia (also see updated stats later in that thread):

 https://forum.dlang.org/post/oarr8l$19rh$1 digitalmars.com

 Japan may be in third place for heavy users, as Kenji Hara and 
 a few others are significant contributors, and they certainly 
 tweet about dlang:

 https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/dlang

 It may be a good forward-looking move to hold one of the next 
 two or three DConfs in Japan or Hong Kong, perhaps working with 
 Laeeth and the Hong Kong Meetup group.



Thanks for sharing these info!
Maybe China is also a good candidate:), as we know that Chinese 
companies like
PuTao(http://www.huntframework.com/) is using D for their 
production environment and has been contributed to many D open 
source projects.
Jun 29 2018
parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:31:05 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:20:55 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:03:19 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

    [...]


 I get the sense that the US and Germany have the largest 
 amount of heavy D users, which is why all the DConfs so far 
 have been held in those two countries. Three of the five 
 largest D Meetup groups are in those countries:

 https://www.meetup.com/topics/dpl/

 However, Ali notes significant interest in his D book in China 
 and Russia (also see updated stats later in that thread):

 https://forum.dlang.org/post/oarr8l$19rh$1 digitalmars.com

 Japan may be in third place for heavy users, as Kenji Hara and 
 a few others are significant contributors, and they certainly 
 tweet about dlang:

 https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/dlang

 It may be a good forward-looking move to hold one of the next 
 two or three DConfs in Japan or Hong Kong, perhaps working 
 with Laeeth and the Hong Kong Meetup group.



 Thanks for sharing these info!
 Maybe China is also a good candidate:), as we know that Chinese 
 companies like
 PuTao(http://www.huntframework.com/) is using D for their 
 production environment and has been contributed to many D open 
 source projects.


I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes a lot 
of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf geared 
towards Asian timezones? I could help out with arranging those 
online talks.
Jun 29 2018
next sibling parent reply Jonathan M Davis <newsgroup.d jmdavisprog.com> writes:
On Friday, June 29, 2018 10:50:52 Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes a lot
 of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf geared
 towards Asian timezones? I could help out with arranging those
 online talks.


That article seems to pre-suppose that the only benefit from conferences is
the talks. A _lot_ of good comes from having a bunch of the key developers
in the same place for a few days where they can talk in person. Some
communities (e.g. the BSD community) even have developer meetings connected
to conferences where they specifically put a bunch of developers in a room
together to discuss stuff. The talks are valuable, but in some ways, those
face-to-face interactions are worth far more than the talks. So, while
there's certainly value in finding ways to get more talks online, I think
that it would be a huge mistake to try and push for online stuff to replace
physical conferences where developers actually interact with each other in
person.

- Jonathan M Davis
Jun 29 2018
next sibling parent bauss <jj_1337 live.dk> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:32:13 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Friday, June 29, 2018 10:50:52 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes a 
 lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf geared 
 towards Asian timezones? I could help out with arranging those 
 online talks.


 That article seems to pre-suppose that the only benefit from 
 conferences is the talks. A _lot_ of good comes from having a 
 bunch of the key developers in the same place for a few days 
 where they can talk in person. Some communities (e.g. the BSD 
 community) even have developer meetings connected to 
 conferences where they specifically put a bunch of developers 
 in a room together to discuss stuff. The talks are valuable, 
 but in some ways, those face-to-face interactions are worth far 
 more than the talks. So, while there's certainly value in 
 finding ways to get more talks online, I think that it would be 
 a huge mistake to try and push for online stuff to replace 
 physical conferences where developers actually interact with 
 each other in person.

 - Jonathan M Davis


A major difference between most conferences and DConf from my 
perspective are things like the Hackathon etc. which makes it 
more than just a conference, but more like a large social D event.
Jun 29 2018
prev sibling parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:32:13 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Friday, June 29, 2018 10:50:52 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes a 
 lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf geared 
 towards Asian timezones? I could help out with arranging those 
 online talks.


 That article seems to pre-suppose that the only benefit from 
 conferences is the talks. A _lot_ of good comes from having a 
 bunch of the key developers in the same place for a few days 
 where they can talk in person.


It "pre-supposes" nothing, points like yours are specifically 
addressed:

"But all of that media can’t really replace the socializing, 
networking, and simply fun that happened as part of (or sometimes 
despite) the conference formula."


 Some communities (e.g. the BSD community) even have developer 
 meetings connected to conferences where they specifically put a 
 bunch of developers in a room together to discuss stuff. The 
 talks are valuable, but in some ways, those face-to-face 
 interactions are worth far more than the talks. So, while 
 there's certainly value in finding ways to get more talks 
 online, I think that it would be a huge mistake to try and push 
 for online stuff to replace physical conferences where 
 developers actually interact with each other in person.


I don't, I think it would be a huge improvement. There are very 
few benefits to getting people together in person in our 
hyperconnected age, and while "key developers in the same place" 
may be one of those, that excludes almost everybody else at DConf.

Honestly, getting everybody together in a room and having them 
stare straight ahead at a speaker is a blindingly stupid waste of 
time these days. The only advantage of everybody being together 
in a room is the heightened communication bandwidth, and then you 
all sit next to each other staring straight ahead silently. The 
conference format made sense when pretty much everybody attending 
didn't have high-speed internet and connected video displays 
decades ago, but they make no sense now, as that blog post notes.
Jun 29 2018
next sibling parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:54:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 I don't, I think it would be a huge improvement. There are very 
 few benefits to getting people together in person in our 
 hyperconnected age, and while "key developers in the same 
 place" may be one of those, that excludes almost everybody else 
 at DConf.


Except it doesn't exclude anyone -- it's not just the key 
developers.


 Honestly, getting everybody together in a room and having them 
 stare straight ahead at a speaker is a blindingly stupid waste 
 of time these days. The only advantage of everybody being 
 together in a room is the heightened communication bandwidth, 
 and then you all sit next to each other staring straight ahead 
 silently. The conference format made sense when pretty much 
 everybody attending didn't have high-speed internet and 
 connected video displays decades ago, but they make no sense 
 now, as that blog post notes.


There are huge benefits to being there in person that extend 
beyond the time spent listening to the talks. People congregate 
in the lobby after hours, have three meals a day together, 
exchange ideas, make new contacts that lead to collaborations 
down the line... I wouldn't trade the time I've spent at the four 
DConfs I've attended for anything and very much regret missing 
the two I couldn't attend.
Jun 29 2018
prev sibling next sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:54:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:32:13 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Friday, June 29, 2018 10:50:52 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes a 
 lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf geared 
 towards Asian timezones? I could help out with arranging 
 those online talks.


 That article seems to pre-suppose that the only benefit from 
 conferences is the talks. A _lot_ of good comes from having a 
 bunch of the key developers in the same place for a few days 
 where they can talk in person.


 It "pre-supposes" nothing, points like yours are specifically 
 addressed:

 "But all of that media can’t really replace the socializing, 
 networking, and simply fun that happened as part of (or 
 sometimes despite) the conference formula."


 Some communities (e.g. the BSD community) even have developer 
 meetings connected to conferences where they specifically put 
 a bunch of developers in a room together to discuss stuff. The 
 talks are valuable, but in some ways, those face-to-face 
 interactions are worth far more than the talks. So, while 
 there's certainly value in finding ways to get more talks 
 online, I think that it would be a huge mistake to try and 
 push for online stuff to replace physical conferences where 
 developers actually interact with each other in person.


 I don't, I think it would be a huge improvement. There are very 
 few benefits to getting people together in person in our 
 hyperconnected age, and while "key developers in the same 
 place" may be one of those, that excludes almost everybody else 
 at DConf.

 Honestly, getting everybody together in a room and having them 
 stare straight ahead at a speaker is a blindingly stupid waste 
 of time these days. The only advantage of everybody being 
 together in a room is the heightened communication bandwidth, 
 and then you all sit next to each other staring straight ahead 
 silently. The conference format made sense when pretty much 
 everybody attending didn't have high-speed internet and 
 connected video displays decades ago, but they make no sense 
 now, as that blog post notes.


Actually the network speed in China is not satisfied in some 
extent, and that of Korea and Japan are much better.
Jun 29 2018
parent reply bauss <jj_1337 live.dk> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 17:04:46 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:54:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:32:13 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
 wrote:

 On Friday, June 29, 2018 10:50:52 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes a 
 lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf 
 geared towards Asian timezones? I could help out with 
 arranging those online talks.


 That article seems to pre-suppose that the only benefit from 
 conferences is the talks. A _lot_ of good comes from having a 
 bunch of the key developers in the same place for a few days 
 where they can talk in person.


 It "pre-supposes" nothing, points like yours are specifically 
 addressed:

 "But all of that media can’t really replace the socializing, 
 networking, and simply fun that happened as part of (or 
 sometimes despite) the conference formula."


 Some communities (e.g. the BSD community) even have developer 
 meetings connected to conferences where they specifically put 
 a bunch of developers in a room together to discuss stuff. 
 The talks are valuable, but in some ways, those face-to-face 
 interactions are worth far more than the talks. So, while 
 there's certainly value in finding ways to get more talks 
 online, I think that it would be a huge mistake to try and 
 push for online stuff to replace physical conferences where 
 developers actually interact with each other in person.


 I don't, I think it would be a huge improvement. There are 
 very few benefits to getting people together in person in our 
 hyperconnected age, and while "key developers in the same 
 place" may be one of those, that excludes almost everybody 
 else at DConf.

 Honestly, getting everybody together in a room and having them 
 stare straight ahead at a speaker is a blindingly stupid waste 
 of time these days. The only advantage of everybody being 
 together in a room is the heightened communication bandwidth, 
 and then you all sit next to each other staring straight ahead 
 silently. The conference format made sense when pretty much 
 everybody attending didn't have high-speed internet and 
 connected video displays decades ago, but they make no sense 
 now, as that blog post notes.


 Actually the network speed in China is not satisfied in some 
 extent, and that of Korea and Japan are much better.


What about Hong Kong?
Jun 29 2018
parent reply =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 18:54:40 UTC, bauss wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 17:04:46 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:54:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:32:13 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
 wrote:

 On Friday, June 29, 2018 10:50:52 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes 
 a lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf 
 geared towards Asian timezones? I could help out with 
 arranging those online talks.


 That article seems to pre-suppose that the only benefit from 
 conferences is the talks. A _lot_ of good comes from having 
 a bunch of the key developers in the same place for a few 
 days where they can talk in person.


 It "pre-supposes" nothing, points like yours are specifically 
 addressed:

 "But all of that media can’t really replace the socializing, 
 networking, and simply fun that happened as part of (or 
 sometimes despite) the conference formula."


 Some communities (e.g. the BSD community) even have 
 developer meetings connected to conferences where they 
 specifically put a bunch of developers in a room together to 
 discuss stuff. The talks are valuable, but in some ways, 
 those face-to-face interactions are worth far more than the 
 talks. So, while there's certainly value in finding ways to 
 get more talks online, I think that it would be a huge 
 mistake to try and push for online stuff to replace physical 
 conferences where developers actually interact with each 
 other in person.


 I don't, I think it would be a huge improvement. There are 
 very few benefits to getting people together in person in our 
 hyperconnected age, and while "key developers in the same 
 place" may be one of those, that excludes almost everybody 
 else at DConf.

 Honestly, getting everybody together in a room and having 
 them stare straight ahead at a speaker is a blindingly stupid 
 waste of time these days. The only advantage of everybody 
 being together in a room is the heightened communication 
 bandwidth, and then you all sit next to each other staring 
 straight ahead silently. The conference format made sense 
 when pretty much everybody attending didn't have high-speed 
 internet and connected video displays decades ago, but they 
 make no sense now, as that blog post notes.


 Actually the network speed in China is not satisfied in some 
 extent, and that of Korea and Japan are much better.


 What about Hong Kong?


Actually Taiwan is preferred when compare with Hong Kong:).
Jun 30 2018
parent =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 07:56:28 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 18:54:40 UTC, bauss wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 17:04:46 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:54:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:32:13 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
 wrote:

 On Friday, June 29, 2018 10:50:52 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes 
 a lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf 
 geared towards Asian timezones? I could help out with 
 arranging those online talks.


 That article seems to pre-suppose that the only benefit 
 from conferences is the talks. A _lot_ of good comes from 
 having a bunch of the key developers in the same place for 
 a few days where they can talk in person.


 It "pre-supposes" nothing, points like yours are 
 specifically addressed:

 "But all of that media can’t really replace the socializing, 
 networking, and simply fun that happened as part of (or 
 sometimes despite) the conference formula."


 Some communities (e.g. the BSD community) even have 
 developer meetings connected to conferences where they 
 specifically put a bunch of developers in a room together 
 to discuss stuff. The talks are valuable, but in some ways, 
 those face-to-face interactions are worth far more than the 
 talks. So, while there's certainly value in finding ways to 
 get more talks online, I think that it would be a huge 
 mistake to try and push for online stuff to replace 
 physical conferences where developers actually interact 
 with each other in person.


 I don't, I think it would be a huge improvement. There are 
 very few benefits to getting people together in person in 
 our hyperconnected age, and while "key developers in the 
 same place" may be one of those, that excludes almost 
 everybody else at DConf.

 Honestly, getting everybody together in a room and having 
 them stare straight ahead at a speaker is a blindingly 
 stupid waste of time these days. The only advantage of 
 everybody being together in a room is the heightened 
 communication bandwidth, and then you all sit next to each 
 other staring straight ahead silently. The conference format 
 made sense when pretty much everybody attending didn't have 
 high-speed internet and connected video displays decades 
 ago, but they make no sense now, as that blog post notes.


 Actually the network speed in China is not satisfied in some 
 extent, and that of Korea and Japan are much better.


 What about Hong Kong?


 Actually Taiwan is preferred when compare with Hong Kong:).


Because IT industry is well developed in Taiwan.
Jun 30 2018
prev sibling parent reply Jonathan M Davis <newsgroup.d jmdavisprog.com> writes:
On Friday, June 29, 2018 11:54:48 Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:32:13 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Friday, June 29, 2018 10:50:52 Joakim via Digitalmars-d

 wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes a
 lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf geared
 towards Asian timezones? I could help out with arranging those
 online talks.


 That article seems to pre-suppose that the only benefit from
 conferences is the talks. A _lot_ of good comes from having a
 bunch of the key developers in the same place for a few days
 where they can talk in person.


 It "pre-supposes" nothing, points like yours are specifically
 addressed:

 "But all of that media can’t really replace the socializing,
 networking, and simply fun that happened as part of (or sometimes
 despite) the conference formula."


Well, then I clearly read over it too quickly, but regardless, I think that
you're going to have a hard time convincing the folks that attend dconf that
meeting in person is not highly valuable, and for those who aren't there in
person and only care about the talks, the talks are livestreamed and then
made available separated out later. I don't see how trying to kill off the
in-person aspect of things makes it any worse for those online, and I can
say from experience that meeting in person can be a game changer. It gives
you a very different perspective on someone if you've actually talked with
them in person, and there's lots of communication that works far better that
way. dconf is valuable for both the talks and the communication that happens
before, between, and after them. And regardless of its location, I would
hate to see it stop happening or stop being an actual, physical conference.
Much as I prefer it when it's closer to where I live so that the travel time
and expenses are lower, I've gone even when it's been halfway around the
world, and I wasn't speaking (and thus wasn't reimbursed), and I will
continue to do so. And I hate flying.

I honestly don't see how convincing folks to do just online videos instead
of meeting in purpose and recording the talks is any kind of improvement. At
best, it could be argued that if folks could give their talks from home that
the travel expenses would be avoided, but that's not even vaguely worth the
loss of being able to have most of the core devs and many D enthusiasts meet
and talk in the same place for a few days - even if several hours of that
time is spent listening to talks that could arguably have been done from
home.

If you don't want to show up in person, then just watch the livestream and
don't show up. The rest of us actually want to show up in person. I feel
sorry for those who want to come but can't afford to (be it due to the time
required or the money required), but they wouldn't be any better off if
everyone were livestreaming their talks from home instead of a central
location that they couldn't afford to go to. Many of us pay to go to dconf
and consider the money very well spent.

- Jonathan M Davis
Jun 29 2018
parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 19:50:32 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Friday, June 29, 2018 11:54:48 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:32:13 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
 wrote:

 On Friday, June 29, 2018 10:50:52 Joakim via Digitalmars-d

 wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes 
 a lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf 
 geared towards Asian timezones? I could help out with 
 arranging those online talks.


 That article seems to pre-suppose that the only benefit from 
 conferences is the talks. A _lot_ of good comes from having 
 a bunch of the key developers in the same place for a few 
 days where they can talk in person.


 It "pre-supposes" nothing, points like yours are specifically 
 addressed:

 "But all of that media can’t really replace the socializing, 
 networking, and simply fun that happened as part of (or 
 sometimes despite) the conference formula."


 Well, then I clearly read over it too quickly, but regardless, 
 I think that you're going to have a hard time convincing the 
 folks that attend dconf that meeting in person is not highly 
 valuable, and for those who aren't there in person and only 
 care about the talks, the talks are livestreamed and then made 
 available separated out later. I don't see how trying to kill 
 off the in-person aspect of things makes it any worse for those 
 online, and I can say from experience that meeting in person 
 can be a game changer. It gives you a very different 
 perspective on someone if you've actually talked with them in 
 person, and there's lots of communication that works far better 
 that way. dconf is valuable for both the talks and the 
 communication that happens before, between, and after them. And 
 regardless of its location, I would hate to see it stop 
 happening or stop being an actual, physical conference. Much as 
 I prefer it when it's closer to where I live so that the travel 
 time and expenses are lower, I've gone even when it's been 
 halfway around the world, and I wasn't speaking (and thus 
 wasn't reimbursed), and I will continue to do so. And I hate 
 flying.

 I honestly don't see how convincing folks to do just online 
 videos instead of meeting in purpose and recording the talks is 
 any kind of improvement. At best, it could be argued that if 
 folks could give their talks from home that the travel expenses 
 would be avoided, but that's not even vaguely worth the loss of 
 being able to have most of the core devs and many D enthusiasts 
 meet and talk in the same place for a few days - even if 
 several hours of that time is spent listening to talks that 
 could arguably have been done from home.


As I just told Mike, if you can't defend wasting time watching 
talks together, then do all those things you mention without the 
talks. And simply stating that the in-person talks are "valuable" 
is no defense.


 If you don't want to show up in person, then just watch the 
 livestream and don't show up. The rest of us actually want to 
 show up in person.


I have never shown up in person, I suspect I never will.


 I feel sorry for those who want to come but can't afford to (be 
 it due to the time required or the money required), but they 
 wouldn't be any better off if everyone were livestreaming their 
 talks from home instead of a central location that they 
 couldn't afford to go to.


This is not about them, as you say, they can just watch the talks 
online either way.


 Many of us pay to go to dconf and consider the money very well 
 spent.


Yes, this is about those people, who as that blog post notes, are 
wasting a ton of money on an outdated ritual that no longer makes 
sense. If you believe the core team and a few key devs like you 
need to get together once a year in person and hash things out, 
then do that as an offline retreat somewhere, just don't sucker 
in a bunch of other paying DConf attendees to help defray your 
costs.

The ultimate question here is what is the best use of the money 
that's being expended every year at DConf? Is that money best 
spent mostly on hotel/conference rooms and airline tickets for 
marginal benefit to most or on actually getting shit done? I 
think it's obvious that the model I've sketched out to Mike above 
would get a _lot_ more done.
Jun 29 2018
parent reply Jonathan M Davis <newsgroup.d jmdavisprog.com> writes:
On Saturday, June 30, 2018 01:12:10 Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote:

 Yes, this is about those people, who as that blog post notes, are
 wasting a ton of money on an outdated ritual that no longer makes
 sense. If you believe the core team and a few key devs like you
 need to get together once a year in person and hash things out,
 then do that as an offline retreat somewhere, just don't sucker
 in a bunch of other paying DConf attendees to help defray your
 costs.

 The ultimate question here is what is the best use of the money
 that's being expended every year at DConf? Is that money best
 spent mostly on hotel/conference rooms and airline tickets for
 marginal benefit to most or on actually getting shit done? I
 think it's obvious that the model I've sketched out to Mike above
 would get a _lot_ more done.


A lot of people would disagree with you. If you don't want to go, then don't
go. If others don't want to go, then they don't have to go. No one is being
forced to go. There are clearly plenty of folks interested in going to
dconf, and I expect that it will continue to happen so long as there is such
interest. If folks aren't interested, then they won't show up, and if
attendance is too low, then presumably, dconf won't be held anymore.
However, the interest is clearly there even if you aren't interested, and I
don't understand why you would be trying to get folks to stop going when
they're very much interested in going and see value in doing so. If all you
care about is being able to get online content, then just watch the videos
online.

- Jonathan M Davis
Jun 29 2018
parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 01:33:34 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Saturday, June 30, 2018 01:12:10 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 Yes, this is about those people, who as that blog post notes, 
 are wasting a ton of money on an outdated ritual that no 
 longer makes sense. If you believe the core team and a few key 
 devs like you need to get together once a year in person and 
 hash things out, then do that as an offline retreat somewhere, 
 just don't sucker in a bunch of other paying DConf attendees 
 to help defray your costs.

 The ultimate question here is what is the best use of the 
 money that's being expended every year at DConf? Is that money 
 best spent mostly on hotel/conference rooms and airline 
 tickets for marginal benefit to most or on actually getting 
 shit done? I think it's obvious that the model I've sketched 
 out to Mike above would get a _lot_ more done.


 A lot of people would disagree with you. If you don't want to 
 go, then don't go. If others don't want to go, then they don't 
 have to go. No one is being forced to go. There are clearly 
 plenty of folks interested in going to dconf, and I expect that 
 it will continue to happen so long as there is such interest. 
 If folks aren't interested, then they won't show up, and if 
 attendance is too low, then presumably, dconf won't be held 
 anymore. However, the interest is clearly there even if you 
 aren't interested, and I don't understand why you would be 
 trying to get folks to stop going when they're very much 
 interested in going and see value in doing so. If all you care 
 about is being able to get online content, then just watch the 
 videos online.


My point is obvious from the arguments I've made, including the 
one you just responded to while ignoring the substance of the 
argument. And not that many people are actually interested in 
attending DConf as presently run, I counted what, maybe 100-150 
people at the one in Munich last month?

If you're going to keep ignoring Marco's and my arguments and 
simply repeatedly state that it's worth it for those who attend 
despite all the flaws, then there's no point in discussing it. 
Clearly the current conference format is like a religious ritual 
for you then, something that must be blindly done regardless of 
any considerations of value.
Jun 29 2018
parent reply Jonathan M Davis <newsgroup.d jmdavisprog.com> writes:
On Saturday, June 30, 2018 01:43:32 Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote:

 On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 01:33:34 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Saturday, June 30, 2018 01:12:10 Joakim via Digitalmars-d

 wrote:

 Yes, this is about those people, who as that blog post notes,
 are wasting a ton of money on an outdated ritual that no
 longer makes sense. If you believe the core team and a few key
 devs like you need to get together once a year in person and
 hash things out, then do that as an offline retreat somewhere,
 just don't sucker in a bunch of other paying DConf attendees
 to help defray your costs.

 The ultimate question here is what is the best use of the
 money that's being expended every year at DConf? Is that money
 best spent mostly on hotel/conference rooms and airline
 tickets for marginal benefit to most or on actually getting
 shit done? I think it's obvious that the model I've sketched
 out to Mike above would get a _lot_ more done.


 A lot of people would disagree with you. If you don't want to
 go, then don't go. If others don't want to go, then they don't
 have to go. No one is being forced to go. There are clearly
 plenty of folks interested in going to dconf, and I expect that
 it will continue to happen so long as there is such interest.
 If folks aren't interested, then they won't show up, and if
 attendance is too low, then presumably, dconf won't be held
 anymore. However, the interest is clearly there even if you
 aren't interested, and I don't understand why you would be
 trying to get folks to stop going when they're very much
 interested in going and see value in doing so. If all you care
 about is being able to get online content, then just watch the
 videos online.


 My point is obvious from the arguments I've made, including the
 one you just responded to while ignoring the substance of the
 argument. And not that many people are actually interested in
 attending DConf as presently run, I counted what, maybe 100-150
 people at the one in Munich last month?

 If you're going to keep ignoring Marco's and my arguments and
 simply repeatedly state that it's worth it for those who attend
 despite all the flaws, then there's no point in discussing it.
 Clearly the current conference format is like a religious ritual
 for you then, something that must be blindly done regardless of
 any considerations of value.


Those of us who take the time and spend the money to go to dconf consider it
worth the expenditure, or we wouldn't take the time or spend the money to
go. It's our money to spend, and we see real value in what we get out of it,
or we wouldn't keep going. If you don't agree with us, fine, but I don't see
how it makes sense to try and talk us out of doing what we see value in
doing. If you want to spend your time and money on something else, then do
so.

- Jonathan M Davis
Jun 29 2018
parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 01:52:15 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Saturday, June 30, 2018 01:43:32 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 01:33:34 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
 wrote:

 On Saturday, June 30, 2018 01:12:10 Joakim via Digitalmars-d

 wrote:

 Yes, this is about those people, who as that blog post 
 notes, are wasting a ton of money on an outdated ritual 
 that no longer makes sense. If you believe the core team 
 and a few key devs like you need to get together once a 
 year in person and hash things out, then do that as an 
 offline retreat somewhere, just don't sucker in a bunch of 
 other paying DConf attendees to help defray your costs.

 The ultimate question here is what is the best use of the 
 money that's being expended every year at DConf? Is that 
 money best spent mostly on hotel/conference rooms and 
 airline tickets for marginal benefit to most or on actually 
 getting shit done? I think it's obvious that the model I've 
 sketched out to Mike above would get a _lot_ more done.


 A lot of people would disagree with you. If you don't want 
 to go, then don't go. If others don't want to go, then they 
 don't have to go. No one is being forced to go. There are 
 clearly plenty of folks interested in going to dconf, and I 
 expect that it will continue to happen so long as there is 
 such interest. If folks aren't interested, then they won't 
 show up, and if attendance is too low, then presumably, 
 dconf won't be held anymore. However, the interest is 
 clearly there even if you aren't interested, and I don't 
 understand why you would be trying to get folks to stop 
 going when they're very much interested in going and see 
 value in doing so. If all you care about is being able to 
 get online content, then just watch the videos online.


 My point is obvious from the arguments I've made, including 
 the one you just responded to while ignoring the substance of 
 the argument. And not that many people are actually interested 
 in attending DConf as presently run, I counted what, maybe 
 100-150 people at the one in Munich last month?

 If you're going to keep ignoring Marco's and my arguments and 
 simply repeatedly state that it's worth it for those who 
 attend despite all the flaws, then there's no point in 
 discussing it. Clearly the current conference format is like a 
 religious ritual for you then, something that must be blindly 
 done regardless of any considerations of value.


 Those of us who take the time and spend the money to go to 
 dconf consider it worth the expenditure, or we wouldn't take 
 the time or spend the money to go. It's our money to spend, and 
 we see real value in what we get out of it, or we wouldn't keep 
 going. If you don't agree with us, fine, but I don't see how it 
 makes sense to try and talk us out of doing what we see value 
 in doing. If you want to spend your time and money on something 
 else, then do so.


Simple, D is a collective effort. If the core team wants to waste 
one of its key funding sources in getting a bunch of hobbyists 
together in a room showing off to each other then going on a 
European vacation, completely ignoring how the world and tech has 
changed from back when that could actually be worthwhile, that 
signals to me and others that D is not a serious effort to build 
a viable programming language. Such an egregious waste of 
resources signals that this is just a bunch of boys having fun 
with their toys, only now out on the town in Europe.

I'm not saying that was the intent all along: I suspect that like 
most people and institutions, DConf simply blindly aped what was 
done in the past, which is why conferences still happen. However, 
I'm now presenting arguments for why that doesn't make sense and 
why that outdated ritual is dying off, as Marco notes, and if the 
response is merely, "That's the way things have been done and 
we'll just keep doing it regardless," well, congrats, you just 
explained the thinking for why C and C++ will never be displaced 
by D.
Jun 29 2018
parent reply Jonathan M Davis <newsgroup.d jmdavisprog.com> writes:
On Saturday, June 30, 2018 02:08:08 Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote:

 Simple, D is a collective effort. If the core team wants to waste
 one of its key funding sources in getting a bunch of hobbyists
 together in a room showing off to each other then going on a
 European vacation, completely ignoring how the world and tech has
 changed from back when that could actually be worthwhile, that
 signals to me and others that D is not a serious effort to build
 a viable programming language. Such an egregious waste of
 resources signals that this is just a bunch of boys having fun
 with their toys, only now out on the town in Europe.

 I'm not saying that was the intent all along: I suspect that like
 most people and institutions, DConf simply blindly aped what was
 done in the past, which is why conferences still happen. However,
 I'm now presenting arguments for why that doesn't make sense and
 why that outdated ritual is dying off, as Marco notes, and if the
 response is merely, "That's the way things have been done and
 we'll just keep doing it regardless," well, congrats, you just
 explained the thinking for why C and C++ will never be displaced
 by D.


The response is that those of us who have gone to dconf have found it to be
valuable. It's not just that we're doing what others have done or that we
think that it might be a good idea. It's actually been valuable in practice.

Honestly, this is this first time that I've ever seen anyone try to argue
that conferences like this are a bad idea. My experience has been that it
has been a very good idea, and there are plenty of people out there who
attend conferences regularly and try to get others to go because of how much
value they see in it (and not just for dconf). If anything, the number of
conferences that I've been hearing about has gone up, not down, and plenty
of new conferences have started up in recent years (e.g. BSD Taiwan started
up last year, the OpenZFS guys have started up a at least a couple of
related conferences in the last few years, and RustConf is quite new). If
you think that it's a bad sign that we have dconf, then that's certainly
your choice, but the arguments that you've presented are unlikely to be
persuasive to those of us who have actually attended dconf.

- Jonathan M Davis
Jun 29 2018
next sibling parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 02:23:57 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Saturday, June 30, 2018 02:08:08 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 [...]


 The response is that those of us who have gone to dconf have 
 found it to be valuable. It's not just that we're doing what 
 others have done or that we think that it might be a good idea. 
 It's actually been valuable in practice.

 Honestly, this is this first time that I've ever seen anyone 
 try to argue that conferences like this are a bad idea. My 
 experience has been that it has been a very good idea, and 
 there are plenty of people out there who attend conferences 
 regularly and try to get others to go because of how much value 
 they see in it (and not just for dconf). If anything, the 
 number of conferences that I've been hearing about has gone up, 
 not down, and plenty of new conferences have started up in 
 recent years (e.g. BSD Taiwan started up last year, the OpenZFS 
 guys have started up a at least a couple of related conferences 
 in the last few years, and RustConf is quite new). If you think 
 that it's a bad sign that we have dconf, then that's certainly 
 your choice, but the arguments that you've presented are 
 unlikely to be persuasive to those of us who have actually 
 attended dconf.


That's nice, but since you present no arguments other than simply 
stating that it's "valuable" or "a very good idea" that's "gone 
up"- why? who knows? That would require actually supplying an 
argument- the 99.9% of D users who've never attended Dconf are 
unlikely to be persuaded that it's ever worth attending DConf or 
wasting any more time with a language that is more focused on 
blowing time and money on that outdated conference format than 
getting work done on the language.
Jun 29 2018
parent reply Jonathan M Davis <newsgroup.d jmdavisprog.com> writes:
On Saturday, June 30, 2018 02:34:00 Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote:

 On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 02:23:57 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Saturday, June 30, 2018 02:08:08 Joakim via Digitalmars-d

 wrote:

 [...]


 The response is that those of us who have gone to dconf have
 found it to be valuable. It's not just that we're doing what
 others have done or that we think that it might be a good idea.
 It's actually been valuable in practice.

 Honestly, this is this first time that I've ever seen anyone
 try to argue that conferences like this are a bad idea. My
 experience has been that it has been a very good idea, and
 there are plenty of people out there who attend conferences
 regularly and try to get others to go because of how much value
 they see in it (and not just for dconf). If anything, the
 number of conferences that I've been hearing about has gone up,
 not down, and plenty of new conferences have started up in
 recent years (e.g. BSD Taiwan started up last year, the OpenZFS
 guys have started up a at least a couple of related conferences
 in the last few years, and RustConf is quite new). If you think
 that it's a bad sign that we have dconf, then that's certainly
 your choice, but the arguments that you've presented are
 unlikely to be persuasive to those of us who have actually
 attended dconf.


 That's nice, but since you present no arguments other than simply
 stating that it's "valuable" or "a very good idea" that's "gone
 up"- why? who knows? That would require actually supplying an
 argument- the 99.9% of D users who've never attended Dconf are
 unlikely to be persuaded that it's ever worth attending DConf or
 wasting any more time with a language that is more focused on
 blowing time and money on that outdated conference format than
 getting work done on the language.


As I stated previously, having people meet in person can be a game changer.
It gives you a different perspective on people and allows for much more
efficient communication in many cases. Some stuff does work best when
communicated online, but a lot of stuff works better when you have people in
the same place discussing things.

It could certainly be argued that we should do more with less traditional
stuff like birds of a feather sessions or other activities that are geared
specifically towards folks interacting, but the talks convey lots of useful
information and ideas, and there's a lot of discussions that go on about the
talks and other topics during the time that talks aren't happening. It would
be a real loss to the D community if we lost that.

- Jonathan M Davis
Jun 29 2018
parent Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 05:36:52 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 On Saturday, June 30, 2018 02:34:00 Joakim via Digitalmars-d 
 wrote:

 On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 02:23:57 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
 wrote:

 [...]


 That's nice, but since you present no arguments other than 
 simply stating that it's "valuable" or "a very good idea" 
 that's "gone up"- why? who knows? That would require actually 
 supplying an argument- the 99.9% of D users who've never 
 attended Dconf are unlikely to be persuaded that it's ever 
 worth attending DConf or wasting any more time with a language 
 that is more focused on blowing time and money on that 
 outdated conference format than getting work done on the 
 language.


 As I stated previously, having people meet in person can be a 
 game changer. It gives you a different perspective on people 
 and allows for much more efficient communication in many cases. 
 Some stuff does work best when communicated online, but a lot 
 of stuff works better when you have people in the same place 
 discussing things.

 It could certainly be argued that we should do more with less 
 traditional stuff like birds of a feather sessions or other 
 activities that are geared specifically towards folks 
 interacting, but the talks convey lots of useful information 
 and ideas, and there's a lot of discussions that go on about 
 the talks and other topics during the time that talks aren't 
 happening. It would be a real loss to the D community if we 
 lost that.


As I stated previously and Adam reiterates, then do the actual 
in-person stuff that you find worthwhile and cut out the stuff 
that's "best when communicated online." I completely disagree 
that talks are in the former category and not the latter, 
particularly when a large majority of the scheduled time is spent 
on them.
Jun 29 2018
prev sibling parent Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 02:23:57 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 Honestly, this is this first time that I've ever seen anyone 
 try to argue that conferences like this are a bad idea.


I argued it (though I don't remember how vigorously) back when 
the kickstarter was done. I still think there's far more useful 
things we could have spent that money on.

So, I literally just got home - as in about 20 minutes ago - from 
a work trip, an organization-wide retreat that consumed this 
whole week (and btw a LOT of money). I'll grant there was some 
value in the powerpoint presentations, but they were a tiny 
minority of the time.

The "talks" of this week were frequently intercut with questions, 
comments, arguments. The plan included various break-out sessions 
that mixed people across teams that don't usually mix in order to 
share more and see the other perspectives.

And, of course, before 9 and after 5, were the parts that most 
people felt were most valuable, just kinda hanging out and yes, 
even doing a little bit of work.

Overall, I'm actually still not sure it was worth the time and 
money that went into it... but there's a good case to be made 
that it was, even limiting it to just the 9-5 parts. But there 
were a few people saying they think it would have been more worth 
it if we cut out even more of the structure, to make the 9-5 more 
resemble the 5-9.



So when we criticize dconf, it is because the official time is 
devoted almost entirely to the most useless part of a meeting - 
the powerpoint presentations. (Like you could have just emailed 
that to me.)

And the powerpoints themselves btw are frequently trash. Really, 
the point of a talk like this is to market something - get people 
interested enough to read your book or use your project or 
whatever. Reading text or code off a slide is really pretty 
pointless, again, you could have just emailed that to me.



But anyway, if we are going to get people together, why not focus 
on the together aspects? Instead of having a traditional talk, 
try doing 5 minutes of talk to market interest in the idea, 
followed by 20 minutes of break-out interactive groups to 
collaboratively explore it, followed by conference share-outs and 
questions from those groups to the whole. And mix up the groups 
too. We did a fair amount of this at my work thing this week and 
I actually thought it worked fairly well. I actually rarely even 
had my computer out all week - we can youtube and email and IRC 
some other time, while in person, let's in person stuff.

Instead of having another talk immediately follow, just have 
some... together time. Make the lunch break 3 hours long instead 
of 1, so people have more of a chance to mingle and organically 
collaborate. You say the best part is what happens after the 
conference... so let's try to bring that after-conference stuff 
TO the conference itself!


If we're going to spend the money, let's not spend it on more 
powerpoints. Let's emphasize the parts you already like better, 
and actually focus on the unique benefits of in-person time.
Jun 29 2018
prev sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 10:50:52 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:31:05 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:20:55 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:03:19 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

    [...]


 I get the sense that the US and Germany have the largest 
 amount of heavy D users, which is why all the DConfs so far 
 have been held in those two countries. Three of the five 
 largest D Meetup groups are in those countries:

 https://www.meetup.com/topics/dpl/

 However, Ali notes significant interest in his D book in 
 China and Russia (also see updated stats later in that 
 thread):

 https://forum.dlang.org/post/oarr8l$19rh$1 digitalmars.com

 Japan may be in third place for heavy users, as Kenji Hara 
 and a few others are significant contributors, and they 
 certainly tweet about dlang:

 https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/dlang

 It may be a good forward-looking move to hold one of the next 
 two or three DConfs in Japan or Hong Kong, perhaps working 
 with Laeeth and the Hong Kong Meetup group.



 Thanks for sharing these info!
 Maybe China is also a good candidate:), as we know that 
 Chinese companies like
 PuTao(http://www.huntframework.com/) is using D for their 
 production environment and has been contributed to many D open 
 source projects.


 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes a 
 lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf geared 
 towards Asian timezones? I could help out with arranging those 
 online talks.



It seems that people in different countries of Asia may live in 
different timezone.
Jun 29 2018
parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 12:13:09 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 10:50:52 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes a 
 lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf geared 
 towards Asian timezones? I could help out with arranging those 
 online talks.



 It seems that people in different countries of Asia may live in 
 different timezone.


So do people in US and Europe, the vast majority of whom watching 
the livestream or online videos didn't attend DConf.

On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 12:30:49 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:54:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 I don't, I think it would be a huge improvement. There are 
 very few benefits to getting people together in person in our 
 hyperconnected age, and while "key developers in the same 
 place" may be one of those, that excludes almost everybody 
 else at DConf.


 Except it doesn't exclude anyone -- it's not just the key 
 developers.


First off, I question there's much benefit to even the key devs 
beyond communicating through email and video conferencing to iron 
things out, as Andrei indicates he does with Walter.

And Jonathan only mentioned the key devs, so that does exclude. 
As for everybody else, see below.


 Honestly, getting everybody together in a room and having them 
 stare straight ahead at a speaker is a blindingly stupid waste 
 of time these days. The only advantage of everybody being 
 together in a room is the heightened communication bandwidth, 
 and then you all sit next to each other staring straight ahead 
 silently. The conference format made sense when pretty much 
 everybody attending didn't have high-speed internet and 
 connected video displays decades ago, but they make no sense 
 now, as that blog post notes.


 There are huge benefits to being there in person that extend 
 beyond the time spent listening to the talks. People congregate 
 in the lobby after hours, have three meals a day together, 
 exchange ideas, make new contacts that lead to collaborations 
 down the line... I wouldn't trade the time I've spent at the 
 four DConfs I've attended for anything and very much regret 
 missing the two I couldn't attend.


Then spend all your time doing those things: why waste the 
majority of conference time sitting through talks that you don't 
bother defending?

Here's what a "conference" in Asia or Europe or wherever should 
probably look like in this day and age:

- Have most talks prerecorded by the speaker on their webcam or 
smartphone, which produce excellent video these days with not 
much fiddling, and have a couple organizers work with them to get 
those home-brewed videos up to a certain quality level, both in 
content and presentation, before posting them online.

- Once the videos are all up, set up weekend meetups in several 
cities in the region, such as Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Bangalore, 
where a few livestreamed talks may talk place if some speakers 
don't want to spend more time producing a pre-recorded talk, but 
most time is spent like the hackathon, discussing various 
existing issues from bugzilla in smaller groups or brainstorming 
ideas, designs, and libraries for the future.

This is just off the top of my head; I'm sure I'm missing some 
small details here and there, as I was coming up with parts of 
this as I wrote it, but I estimate it'd be an order of magnitude 
more productive than the current conference format while being 
vastly cheaper in total cost to all involved. Since D is not 
exactly drowning in money, it makes no sense to waste it on the 
antiquated conference format. Some American D devs may complain 
that they no longer essentially get to go on a vacation to Berlin 
or Munich- a paid vacation if their company compensates for such 
tech conferences- but that's not our problem.
Jun 29 2018
parent reply =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 14:52:45 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 12:13:09 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 10:50:52 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 I coincidentally just read this blog post, that summarizes a 
 lot of my thoughts against conferences and meetups:

 https://marco.org/2018/01/17/end-of-conference-era

 Maybe a good first step would be a mostly online DConf geared 
 towards Asian timezones? I could help out with arranging 
 those online talks.



 It seems that people in different countries of Asia may live 
 in different timezone.


 So do people in US and Europe, the vast majority of whom 
 watching the livestream or online videos didn't attend DConf.

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 12:30:49 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 11:54:48 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 I don't, I think it would be a huge improvement. There are 
 very few benefits to getting people together in person in our 
 hyperconnected age, and while "key developers in the same 
 place" may be one of those, that excludes almost everybody 
 else at DConf.


 Except it doesn't exclude anyone -- it's not just the key 
 developers.


 First off, I question there's much benefit to even the key devs 
 beyond communicating through email and video conferencing to 
 iron things out, as Andrei indicates he does with Walter.

 And Jonathan only mentioned the key devs, so that does exclude. 
 As for everybody else, see below.


 Honestly, getting everybody together in a room and having 
 them stare straight ahead at a speaker is a blindingly stupid 
 waste of time these days. The only advantage of everybody 
 being together in a room is the heightened communication 
 bandwidth, and then you all sit next to each other staring 
 straight ahead silently. The conference format made sense 
 when pretty much everybody attending didn't have high-speed 
 internet and connected video displays decades ago, but they 
 make no sense now, as that blog post notes.


 There are huge benefits to being there in person that extend 
 beyond the time spent listening to the talks. People 
 congregate in the lobby after hours, have three meals a day 
 together, exchange ideas, make new contacts that lead to 
 collaborations down the line... I wouldn't trade the time I've 
 spent at the four DConfs I've attended for anything and very 
 much regret missing the two I couldn't attend.


 Then spend all your time doing those things: why waste the 
 majority of conference time sitting through talks that you 
 don't bother defending?

 Here's what a "conference" in Asia or Europe or wherever should 
 probably look like in this day and age:

 - Have most talks prerecorded by the speaker on their webcam or 
 smartphone, which produce excellent video these days with not 
 much fiddling, and have a couple organizers work with them to 
 get those home-brewed videos up to a certain quality level, 
 both in content and presentation, before posting them online.

 - Once the videos are all up, set up weekend meetups in several 
 cities in the region, such as Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Bangalore, 
 where a few livestreamed talks may talk place if some speakers 
 don't want to spend more time producing a pre-recorded talk, 
 but most time is spent like the hackathon, discussing various 
 existing issues from bugzilla in smaller groups or 
 brainstorming ideas, designs, and libraries for the future.

 This is just off the top of my head; I'm sure I'm missing some 
 small details here and there, as I was coming up with parts of 
 this as I wrote it, but I estimate it'd be an order of 
 magnitude more productive than the current conference format 
 while being vastly cheaper in total cost to all involved. Since 
 D is not exactly drowning in money, it makes no sense to waste 
 it on the antiquated conference format. Some American D devs 
 may complain that they no longer essentially get to go on a 
 vacation to Berlin or Munich- a paid vacation if their company 
 compensates for such tech conferences- but that's not our 
 problem.


Thanks for further clarification.
But there is still some limitation may exist, e.g., as you may 
note that
the latest Linaro Connect that held in Hong Kong add a new 
special "China Access" for sharing their conference resources 
like below:


I noted it because I am very interested in programming on ARM, so 
I hope LDC
(https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc) could add the support for 
AARCH64 as soon as possible:).
Jun 30 2018
parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 08:27:30 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 14:52:45 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 12:13:09 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 [...]


 So do people in US and Europe, the vast majority of whom 
 watching the livestream or online videos didn't attend DConf.

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 12:30:49 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 [...]


 First off, I question there's much benefit to even the key 
 devs beyond communicating through email and video conferencing 
 to iron things out, as Andrei indicates he does with Walter.

 And Jonathan only mentioned the key devs, so that does 
 exclude. As for everybody else, see below.


 [...]


 Then spend all your time doing those things: why waste the 
 majority of conference time sitting through talks that you 
 don't bother defending?

 Here's what a "conference" in Asia or Europe or wherever 
 should probably look like in this day and age:

 - Have most talks prerecorded by the speaker on their webcam 
 or smartphone, which produce excellent video these days with 
 not much fiddling, and have a couple organizers work with them 
 to get those home-brewed videos up to a certain quality level, 
 both in content and presentation, before posting them online.

 - Once the videos are all up, set up weekend meetups in 
 several cities in the region, such as Tokyo, Hong Kong, and 
 Bangalore, where a few livestreamed talks may talk place if 
 some speakers don't want to spend more time producing a 
 pre-recorded talk, but most time is spent like the hackathon, 
 discussing various existing issues from bugzilla in smaller 
 groups or brainstorming ideas, designs, and libraries for the 
 future.

 This is just off the top of my head; I'm sure I'm missing some 
 small details here and there, as I was coming up with parts of 
 this as I wrote it, but I estimate it'd be an order of 
 magnitude more productive than the current conference format 
 while being vastly cheaper in total cost to all involved. 
 Since D is not exactly drowning in money, it makes no sense to 
 waste it on the antiquated conference format. Some American D 
 devs may complain that they no longer essentially get to go on 
 a vacation to Berlin or Munich- a paid vacation if their 
 company compensates for such tech conferences- but that's not 
 our problem.


 Thanks for further clarification.
 But there is still some limitation may exist, e.g., as you may 
 note that
 the latest Linaro Connect that held in Hong Kong add a new 
 special "China Access" for sharing their conference resources 
 like below:


 I noted it because I am very interested in programming on ARM, 
 so I hope LDC
 (https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc) could add the support 
 for AARCH64 as soon as possible:).


Check out the ltsmaster branch of LDC from git and try it out, 
most tests passed for me on Ubuntu/AArch64 16.04:

https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc/issues/2153#issuecomment-384264048

The few remaining exceptions are some math-related modules would 
need to be patched to support 128-bit floating-point real 
numbers, such as CustomFloat from std.numeric, 
std.internal.math.gammafunction, or the floating-point parser 
from std.conv (but only if you really need that extra precision, 
most of that code still works at 80-bit accuracy), though all the 
tests from std.math now pass. The other big issue is 
core.stdc.stdarg needs to be adapted for AArch64 varargs, which 
is what's holding back building the latest LDC 1.10 natively.
Jun 30 2018
parent =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 08:51:56 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 08:27:30 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 14:52:45 UTC, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 12:13:09 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 [...]


 So do people in US and Europe, the vast majority of whom 
 watching the livestream or online videos didn't attend DConf.

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 12:30:49 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 [...]


 First off, I question there's much benefit to even the key 
 devs beyond communicating through email and video 
 conferencing to iron things out, as Andrei indicates he does 
 with Walter.

 And Jonathan only mentioned the key devs, so that does 
 exclude. As for everybody else, see below.


 [...]


 Then spend all your time doing those things: why waste the 
 majority of conference time sitting through talks that you 
 don't bother defending?

 Here's what a "conference" in Asia or Europe or wherever 
 should probably look like in this day and age:

 - Have most talks prerecorded by the speaker on their webcam 
 or smartphone, which produce excellent video these days with 
 not much fiddling, and have a couple organizers work with 
 them to get those home-brewed videos up to a certain quality 
 level, both in content and presentation, before posting them 
 online.

 - Once the videos are all up, set up weekend meetups in 
 several cities in the region, such as Tokyo, Hong Kong, and 
 Bangalore, where a few livestreamed talks may talk place if 
 some speakers don't want to spend more time producing a 
 pre-recorded talk, but most time is spent like the hackathon, 
 discussing various existing issues from bugzilla in smaller 
 groups or brainstorming ideas, designs, and libraries for the 
 future.

 This is just off the top of my head; I'm sure I'm missing 
 some small details here and there, as I was coming up with 
 parts of this as I wrote it, but I estimate it'd be an order 
 of magnitude more productive than the current conference 
 format while being vastly cheaper in total cost to all 
 involved. Since D is not exactly drowning in money, it makes 
 no sense to waste it on the antiquated conference format. 
 Some American D devs may complain that they no longer 
 essentially get to go on a vacation to Berlin or Munich- a 
 paid vacation if their company compensates for such tech 
 conferences- but that's not our problem.


 Thanks for further clarification.
 But there is still some limitation may exist, e.g., as you may 
 note that
 the latest Linaro Connect that held in Hong Kong add a new 
 special "China Access" for sharing their conference resources 
 like below:


 I noted it because I am very interested in programming on ARM, 
 so I hope LDC
 (https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc) could add the support 
 for AARCH64 as soon as possible:).


 Check out the ltsmaster branch of LDC from git and try it out, 
 most tests passed for me on Ubuntu/AArch64 16.04:

 https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc/issues/2153#issuecomment-384264048

 The few remaining exceptions are some math-related modules 
 would need to be patched to support 128-bit floating-point real 
 numbers, such as CustomFloat from std.numeric, 
 std.internal.math.gammafunction, or the floating-point parser 
 from std.conv (but only if you really need that extra 
 precision, most of that code still works at 80-bit accuracy), 
 though all the tests from std.math now pass. The other big 
 issue is core.stdc.stdarg needs to be adapted for AArch64 
 varargs, which is what's holding back building the latest LDC 
 1.10 natively.


Good News!
Hope official AArch64 support will be included in their upcoming 
releases.
Jun 30 2018
prev sibling next sibling parent rikki cattermole <rikki cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 29/06/2018 9:20 PM, Joakim wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:03:19 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 Dear all,
    How about set up DConf Asia every year? As far as I know, there are 
 a few D  programmers and fans in Asia, but DConf was traditionally 
 held in U.S. or Germany before,so that it may be not convenient for 
 them to take part in these celebrations.
    Today more and more programmers in Asia are embracing Open Source, 
 and many technology conferences have their Asia version such like the 
 just concluded LinuxCon + ContainerCon + CloudOpen that has been held 
 in Beijing for two years, and the KubeCon + CloudNativeCon will be 
 held on Nov in Shanghai this year, and many Linux/BSD conferences for 
 Kernel or Distributions have been held in Japan, Korea, and so on.
    For programming languages, PyCon APAC has been successfully held in 
 many Asian
 countries each year. And Gopher China has also been held for many years.
    So I wonder if DConf can be held in Asia will be sure to greatly 
 expand the influence of D languages, and attract the eyes of the 
 largest group of programmers in the world.
    All suggestions are welcome!


 
 I get the sense that the US and Germany have the largest amount of heavy 
 D users, which is why all the DConfs so far have been held in those two 
 countries. Three of the five largest D Meetup groups are in those 
 countries:
 
 https://www.meetup.com/topics/dpl/
 
 However, Ali notes significant interest in his D book in China and 
 Russia (also see updated stats later in that thread):
 
 https://forum.dlang.org/post/oarr8l$19rh$1 digitalmars.com
 
 Japan may be in third place for heavy users, as Kenji Hara and a few 
 others are significant contributors, and they certainly tweet about dlang:


Kenji has long since gone. He has been missed.

Mike would be a better candidate for organizing as he is in South Korea.

However some meetups first to get an idea of the numbers wouldn't be a 
terrible idea.
Jun 29 2018
prev sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=c3=87ehreli?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:
On 06/29/2018 02:20 AM, Joakim wrote:

 However, Ali notes significant interest in his D book in China and 
 Russia (also see updated stats later in that thread):
 
 https://forum.dlang.org/post/oarr8l$19rh$1 digitalmars.com


Random stats of the day:

Location            Pages   Hits    Bandwidth
---------------------------------------------
United States       34,237  42,608    1.34 GB
China               28,616  29,040  543.10 MB
Turkey              16,121  46,814  929.62 MB
Russian Federation  10,205  12,616  525.24 MB
Netherlands          8,559   8,747  148.16 MB
Norway               7,247   7,324   79.20 MB
Thailand             7,045   7,052   78.29 MB
Germany              6,172   7,734  495.69 MB
Brazil               5,272   5,604  128.59 MB
[...]

Ali
Jun 29 2018
parent =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 17:53:07 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:

 On 06/29/2018 02:20 AM, Joakim wrote:

 However, Ali notes significant interest in his D book in China 
 and Russia (also see updated stats later in that thread):
 
 https://forum.dlang.org/post/oarr8l$19rh$1 digitalmars.com


 Random stats of the day:

 Location            Pages   Hits    Bandwidth
 ---------------------------------------------
 United States       34,237  42,608    1.34 GB
 China               28,616  29,040  543.10 MB
 Turkey              16,121  46,814  929.62 MB
 Russian Federation  10,205  12,616  525.24 MB
 Netherlands          8,559   8,747  148.16 MB
 Norway               7,247   7,324   79.20 MB
 Thailand             7,045   7,052   78.29 MB
 Germany              6,172   7,734  495.69 MB
 Brazil               5,272   5,604  128.59 MB
 [...]

 Ali



Yes:), I think many Chinese developers show their interests in D 
language
and related resource like Ali's D book!
Jun 30 2018
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Mike Franklin <slavo5150 yahoo.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:03:19 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:


 How about set up DConf Asia every year?


I doubt there'd be any problem have DConf anywhere in the world 
as long is it is properly funded.  Who in Asia would be willing 
to sponsor it?

Mike
Jun 29 2018
next sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:34:44 UTC, Mike Franklin wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:03:19 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:


 How about set up DConf Asia every year?


 I doubt there'd be any problem have DConf anywhere in the world 
 as long is it is properly funded.  Who in Asia would be willing 
 to sponsor it?

 Mike


Yes, the Sponsors should be the major problem for holding DConf 
Asia.
I will try to collect the info if any Chinese programmer 
organizations
or companies are interested in it. Please people from other 
countries in
Asia help to do the similar thing if you are interested to hold 
the DConf
Asia in your country.
Let's refer to the history of PyCon APAC which has been 
successfully held
for many years, it was first held at the Singapore Management 
University by
some professors, and held among other countries or regions in 
Asia annually,
now PyCon APAC come back to Singapore(https://pycon.sg/) this 
year.
Jun 29 2018
parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:58:50 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:


 Yes, the Sponsors should be the major problem for holding DConf 
 Asia.
 I will try to collect the info if any Chinese programmer 
 organizations
 or companies are interested in it. Please people from other 
 countries in
 Asia help to do the similar thing if you are interested to hold 
 the DConf
 Asia in your country.
 Let's refer to the history of PyCon APAC which has been 
 successfully held
 for many years, it was first held at the Singapore Management 
 University by
 some professors, and held among other countries or regions in 
 Asia annually,
 now PyCon APAC come back to Singapore(https://pycon.sg/) this 
 year.


I can tell you that DConf Asia is something the Foundation is 
interested in. It's also something I plan to work toward making 
happen eventually. We discussed this at our Seoul meetup 
recently. What I need to know before anything can happen is how 
large the Chinese and Japanese D communities are.

I'm up to my eyeballs in work right now and had no plans to move 
on this until I finish off my current priorities, but if you're 
willing to help on the Chinese front, I'll do what I can to 
support you.

My email address is aldacron gmail.com, so please feel free to 
contact me about this and we can discuss it.
Jun 29 2018
next sibling parent reply Michael <michael toohuman.io> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 10:12:28 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I can tell you that DConf Asia is something the Foundation is 
 interested in. It's also something I plan to work toward making 
 happen eventually. We discussed this at our Seoul meetup 
 recently. What I need to know before anything can happen is how 
 large the Chinese and Japanese D communities are.


I guess the best place to start is to organise meetups in the 
countries first to gauge interest and the size of the D community 
in those countries, and then there can be some communication 
between the local meetups aiming at organising a more regional 
DConf?
Jun 29 2018
next sibling parent =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 10:18:01 UTC, Michael wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 10:12:28 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I can tell you that DConf Asia is something the Foundation is 
 interested in. It's also something I plan to work toward 
 making happen eventually. We discussed this at our Seoul 
 meetup recently. What I need to know before anything can 
 happen is how large the Chinese and Japanese D communities are.


 I guess the best place to start is to organise meetups in the 
 countries first to gauge interest and the size of the D 
 community in those countries, and then there can be some 
 communication between the local meetups aiming at organising a 
 more regional DConf?


Good suggestion! I will try to evaluate if it is possible to set 
up
a meetup for D language in China firstly.
Jun 29 2018
prev sibling parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 10:18:01 UTC, Michael wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 10:12:28 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I can tell you that DConf Asia is something the Foundation is 
 interested in. It's also something I plan to work toward 
 making happen eventually. We discussed this at our Seoul 
 meetup recently. What I need to know before anything can 
 happen is how large the Chinese and Japanese D communities are.


 I guess the best place to start is to organise meetups in the 
 countries first to gauge interest and the size of the D 
 community in those countries, and then there can be some 
 communication between the local meetups aiming at organising a 
 more regional DConf?


As I understand it, they already have active D communities with 
their own forums & blogs and probably meetups. Several of the D 
blog posts have been translated to Japanese and the D_Programming 
tweets are often retweeted by a Japanese account. We just need to 
tap into those existing communities and find out their size, 
composition, etc, and who can help us organize.
Jun 29 2018
prev sibling parent =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 10:12:28 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:58:50 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:


 Yes, the Sponsors should be the major problem for holding 
 DConf Asia.
 I will try to collect the info if any Chinese programmer 
 organizations
 or companies are interested in it. Please people from other 
 countries in
 Asia help to do the similar thing if you are interested to 
 hold the DConf
 Asia in your country.
 Let's refer to the history of PyCon APAC which has been 
 successfully held
 for many years, it was first held at the Singapore Management 
 University by
 some professors, and held among other countries or regions in 
 Asia annually,
 now PyCon APAC come back to Singapore(https://pycon.sg/) this 
 year.


 I can tell you that DConf Asia is something the Foundation is 
 interested in. It's also something I plan to work toward making 
 happen eventually. We discussed this at our Seoul meetup 
 recently. What I need to know before anything can happen is how 
 large the Chinese and Japanese D communities are.

 I'm up to my eyeballs in work right now and had no plans to 
 move on this until I finish off my current priorities, but if 
 you're willing to help on the Chinese front, I'll do what I can 
 to support you.

 My email address is aldacron gmail.com, so please feel free to 
 contact me about this and we can discuss it.


Thank you very much!
Jun 29 2018
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/29/2018 2:34 AM, Mike Franklin wrote:

 I doubt there'd be any problem have DConf anywhere in the world as long is it
is 
 properly funded.  Who in Asia would be willing to sponsor it?



Mike is right on both counts.
Jun 29 2018
prev sibling parent reply bauss <jj_1337 live.dk> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:03:19 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 Dear all,
    How about set up DConf Asia every year? As far as I know, 
 there are a few D  programmers and fans in Asia, but DConf was 
 traditionally held in U.S. or Germany before,so that it may be 
 not convenient for them to take part in these celebrations.
    Today more and more programmers in Asia are embracing Open 
 Source, and many technology conferences have their Asia version 
 such like the just concluded LinuxCon + ContainerCon + 
 CloudOpen that has been held in Beijing for two years, and the 
 KubeCon + CloudNativeCon will be held on Nov in Shanghai this 
 year, and many Linux/BSD conferences for Kernel or 
 Distributions have been held in Japan, Korea, and so on.
    For programming languages, PyCon APAC has been successfully 
 held in many Asian
 countries each year. And Gopher China has also been held for 
 many years.
    So I wonder if DConf can be held in Asia will be sure to 
 greatly expand the influence of D languages, and attract the 
 eyes of the largest group of programmers in the world.
    All suggestions are welcome!


I would love a DConf in Asia.

Would give me a reason to travel there other than vacation :)
Jun 29 2018
parent =?UTF-8?B?6bKc5Y2R5ouT6LeL5p6r?= <hkli2012 126.com> writes:
On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 10:14:42 UTC, bauss wrote:

 On Friday, 29 June 2018 at 09:03:19 UTC, 鲜卑拓跋枫 wrote:

 Dear all,
    How about set up DConf Asia every year? As far as I know, 
 there are a few D  programmers and fans in Asia, but DConf was 
 traditionally held in U.S. or Germany before,so that it may be 
 not convenient for them to take part in these celebrations.
    Today more and more programmers in Asia are embracing Open 
 Source, and many technology conferences have their Asia 
 version such like the just concluded LinuxCon + ContainerCon + 
 CloudOpen that has been held in Beijing for two years, and the 
 KubeCon + CloudNativeCon will be held on Nov in Shanghai this 
 year, and many Linux/BSD conferences for Kernel or 
 Distributions have been held in Japan, Korea, and so on.
    For programming languages, PyCon APAC has been successfully 
 held in many Asian
 countries each year. And Gopher China has also been held for 
 many years.
    So I wonder if DConf can be held in Asia will be sure to 
 greatly expand the influence of D languages, and attract the 
 eyes of the largest group of programmers in the world.
    All suggestions are welcome!


 I would love a DConf in Asia.

 Would give me a reason to travel there other than vacation :)


Welcome!
Jun 29 2018