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digitalmars.D - I just want to code in peace

reply ADEV <adev gmail.com> writes:
I want to code in peace

I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so i can 
avoid stupid typos, and be more productive

I want my favorite IDE to have an integrated debugger, so i can 
fix bugs in peace

I want my favorite IDE to understand my project and dependencies, 
so i spend less time trying to figure out or to remember 
EVERYTHING at once myself

I want my favorite IDE to help me be more productive using the 
language i love

Why is the community so split and silent with that issue

I don't understand how people can't understand how important this 
is

Are we forced to create this similar post every fking year to 
bring awareness?

D is the best language ever created, but its tools are DOGSHIT, 
because when it's time to debug something, it's a pain in the 
fking ASS

vim, tim, bim, kim, zim, him, pim, tik, tok are not IDEs


We had DLS, the best tool and the best plugin's editor for D

And this community managed to make its author to quit, and this 
went ignored..

Even D co-creator quit

No fresh blood anymore, why nobody care, if all the spammers and 
bikesheeders from this forum donated $10 / month, we could hire a 
professional and dedicated developper to work and maintain decent 
plugins for the most popular IDEs

All it takes to drive adoption up, is ONE, and ONE single 
dedicated person who is willing to make the D experience easier 
for the people

It's not hard, IDEs can help with that, just like popular 
libraries (flutter), all it take is 1, just 1
Jun 06 2020
next sibling parent reply JN <666total wp.pl> writes:
On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 11:29:01 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 I want to code in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so i 
 can avoid stupid typos, and be more productive


It's tricky in D. Because of it's heavy use of metaprogramming 
and features like UFCS and alias this it's not always obvious 
what the autocomplete should be autocompleting.


 I want my favorite IDE to have an integrated debugger, so i can 
 fix bugs in peace


The C++ debuggers seem to work quite well with D, even if they 
don't have support for D-specific stuff


 Why is the community so split and silent with that issue

 I don't understand how people can't understand how important 
 this is

 Are we forced to create this similar post every fking year to 
 bring awareness?


The awareness isn't needed. An effort is.


 We had DLS, the best tool and the best plugin's editor for D


I never had much luck with DLS unlike code-d. I guess it depends 
on individual preferences.


 No fresh blood anymore, why nobody care, if all the spammers 
 and bikesheeders from this forum donated $10 / month, we could 
 hire a professional and dedicated developper to work and 
 maintain decent plugins for the most popular IDEs


Money is always welcome, I suppose.


 All it takes to drive adoption up, is ONE, and ONE single 
 dedicated person who is willing to make the D experience easier 
 for the people


Sounds like you're dedicated. You can start the effort.

I don't mean to be snarky, but most people are aware of the 
ecosystem issues. Demanding features doesn't work though, the 
only way things will move forward if someone starts it themselves 
and people get on board later on.
Jun 06 2020
next sibling parent Luis <luis.panadero gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 12:07:41 UTC, JN wrote:

 The C++ debuggers seem to work quite well with D, even if they 
 don't have support for D-specific stuff


Err... This is very questionable, when even displaying a simple 
array of ints isn't working.
Jun 06 2020
prev sibling parent reply Bradley Chatha <bradley.chatha gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 12:07:41 UTC, JN wrote:

 On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 11:29:01 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 I want to code in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so i 
 can avoid stupid typos, and be more productive


 It's tricky in D. Because of it's heavy use of metaprogramming 
 and features like UFCS and alias this it's not always obvious 
 what the autocomplete should be autocompleting.


I've wondered if the -vcg-ast switch would ever be useful to help 
autocomplete things like mixins, since if I remember correctly, 
doesn't it output the entire lowered-down AST, including template 
instantiations?

We used to have a plugin called Mono-D for the MonoDevelop (later 
Xaramin Studios) IDE, and IMO that was the best one to have 
existed, since everything kind of *just worked* without any 
hassle, and few bugs.

Sadly, the developer lost interest/had other matters to attend 
to, and the porting process was apparently quite difficult, so it 
was never updated for the newer versions of the IDE, and kind of 
just died.

Meanwhile, with the likes of code-d, I often get a bug where the 
second I type any character, the debug output window 
**automatically**  pops up spamming me with log messages, which I 
can't seem to disable so I just have to live with it there until 
code-d decides to sort itself out. Also once the project grows in 
size in any meaningful way, its autocomplete simply stops 
working, or worse, it randomly decides when it wants to show me 
anything other than the built-in stuff.

A lot of the developers here are quite old-timey, and have 
otherwise become numb to the idea of having rich intelisense 
(which is a hard issue to handle with D in all fairness), as well 
as all the other goodies like an integrated debugger. So it tends 
to fall on the wayside unfortunately.
Jun 06 2020
parent rikki cattermole <rikki cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 07/06/2020 6:31 AM, Bradley Chatha wrote:

 On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 12:07:41 UTC, JN wrote:

 On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 11:29:01 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 I want to code in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so i can 
 avoid stupid typos, and be more productive


 It's tricky in D. Because of it's heavy use of metaprogramming and 
 features like UFCS and alias this it's not always obvious what the 
 autocomplete should be autocompleting.


 
 I've wondered if the -vcg-ast switch would ever be useful to help 
 autocomplete things like mixins, since if I remember correctly, doesn't 
 it output the entire lowered-down AST, including template instantiations?
 
 We used to have a plugin called Mono-D for the MonoDevelop (later 
 Xaramin Studios) IDE, and IMO that was the best one to have existed, 
 since everything kind of *just worked* without any hassle, and few bugs.
 
 Sadly, the developer lost interest/had other matters to attend to, and 
 the porting process was apparently quite difficult, so it was never 
 updated for the newer versions of the IDE, and kind of just died.


Very difficult, I tried once.

MonoDevelop has next to no comments.

It is dreadful.


 Meanwhile, with the likes of code-d, I often get a bug where the second 
 I type any character, the debug output window **automatically**  pops up 
 spamming me with log messages, which I can't seem to disable so I just 
 have to live with it there until code-d decides to sort itself out. Also 
 once the project grows in size in any meaningful way, its autocomplete 
 simply stops working, or worse, it randomly decides when it wants to 
 show me anything other than the built-in stuff.



Which gets back to DCD and friends.
Who need to be rebuilt with dmd-fe.
Jun 06 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Avrina <avrina12309412342 gmail.com> writes:
There was funding for code-d, but I don't know if anything came 
of it. I've looked at the code and it is kind of awful. I would 
have much rather DLS be funded instead.

https://dlang.org/blog/2018/07/13/funding-code-d/

The VisualD plugin is probably the best one out there. But most 
people seem to hate Visual Studio because they need to download a 
1-2 GB file and are developing on a computer with 1 GB of RAM.
Jun 06 2020
parent reply aberba <karabutaworld gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 14:09:19 UTC, Avrina wrote:

 There was funding for code-d, but I don't know if anything came 
 of it. I've looked at the code and it is kind of awful. I would 
 have much rather DLS be funded instead.

 https://dlang.org/blog/2018/07/13/funding-code-d/

 The VisualD plugin is probably the best one out there. But most 
 people seem to hate Visual Studio because they need to download 
 a 1-2 GB file and are developing on a computer with 1 GB of RAM.


Tell you what, I don't use Windows but I can tell with confidence 
that Visual Studio is the way to go if you want a great IDE on 
Windows. And VisualD is your best bet with D. If you're on 
Windows, its your tool.

Clion, etc is Java based and from experience slow. Not much 
better than Visual Studio Code... which is web based.

On Linux, the IDE that comes close to Visual Studio is Gnome 
Builder. Its the Visual Studio of Linux. I remember someone here 
developed a plug-in for D but not sure if it received further 
improvement.

So to satisfy the IDE land, you want to look at solid plug-ins 
for Visual Studio for windows (Mac??), and Gnome Builder for 
Linux.


With that said, if you could do with a lil slow/subpar 
performance with text editors, your best bet is Visual Studio 
Code (code-d), Sublime (??), Vim (??), Clion (I believe there's 
one),....


I personally use Visual Studio Code which is kind of slow 
sometimes but its the best I've got. Code-d might not be perfect 
but I can says it provides the best D experience overall.

Like someone said, D autocompletion is hard and tricky. To make 
things worst, there's almost zero official backing to standardize 
some of these things.

Seb is your closest best to someone (I have noticed) has 
consistently invested time and energy to packaging D experience 
across the board.
Jun 06 2020
parent reply bauss <jj_1337 live.dk> writes:
On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 17:12:01 UTC, aberba wrote:

 On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 14:09:19 UTC, Avrina wrote:

 There was funding for code-d, but I don't know if anything 
 came of it. I've looked at the code and it is kind of awful. I 
 would have much rather DLS be funded instead.

 https://dlang.org/blog/2018/07/13/funding-code-d/

 The VisualD plugin is probably the best one out there. But 
 most people seem to hate Visual Studio because they need to 
 download a 1-2 GB file and are developing on a computer with 1 
 GB of RAM.


 Tell you what, I don't use Windows but I can tell with 
 confidence that Visual Studio is the way to go if you want a 
 great IDE on Windows. And VisualD is your best bet with D. If 
 you're on Windows, its your tool.

 Clion, etc is Java based and from experience slow. Not much 
 better than Visual Studio Code... which is web based.

 On Linux, the IDE that comes close to Visual Studio is Gnome 
 Builder. Its the Visual Studio of Linux. I remember someone 
 here developed a plug-in for D but not sure if it received 
 further improvement.

 So to satisfy the IDE land, you want to look at solid plug-ins 
 for Visual Studio for windows (Mac??), and Gnome Builder for 
 Linux.


 With that said, if you could do with a lil slow/subpar 
 performance with text editors, your best bet is Visual Studio 
 Code (code-d), Sublime (??), Vim (??), Clion (I believe there's 
 one),....


 I personally use Visual Studio Code which is kind of slow 
 sometimes but its the best I've got. Code-d might not be 
 perfect but I can says it provides the best D experience 
 overall.

 Like someone said, D autocompletion is hard and tricky. To make 
 things worst, there's almost zero official backing to 
 standardize some of these things.

 Seb is your closest best to someone (I have noticed) has 
 consistently invested time and energy to packaging D experience 
 across the board.


VisualD doesn't work well with Dub though and that's a huge deal 
for me at least.

You can convert projects between each other but it's meh.

If VisualD just supported dub configs then it would be much 
better.
Jun 06 2020
parent reply aberba <karabutaworld gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 23:08:21 UTC, bauss wrote:

 On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 17:12:01 UTC, aberba wrote:

 [...]


 VisualD doesn't work well with Dub though and that's a huge 
 deal for me at least.

 You can convert projects between each other but it's meh.

 If VisualD just supported dub configs then it would be much 
 better.


Aside dub and other issues, isn't it the best you've got on 
Windows?
Jun 07 2020
parent reply bauss <jj_1337 live.dk> writes:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 at 09:09:48 UTC, aberba wrote:

 On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 23:08:21 UTC, bauss wrote:

 On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 17:12:01 UTC, aberba wrote:

 [...]


 VisualD doesn't work well with Dub though and that's a huge 
 deal for me at least.

 You can convert projects between each other but it's meh.

 If VisualD just supported dub configs then it would be much 
 better.


 Aside dub and other issues, isn't it the best you've got on 
 Windows?


I don't really use an IDE even though I am on Windows.

I just use Atom tbh with syntax highlighting.

I used VisualD years ago but I just haven't bothered with it on 
new machines afterwards. Mostly because Visual Studio is such a 
large application and just for D it's not worth it for me.

For new users it could be worth it but I don't think it's 
necessary for people that knows their way around D.
Jun 07 2020
parent reply ADEV <adev gmail.com> writes:
something like this must happen to D 
https://blog.golang.org/vscode-go

commitment from the team that tooling is key to success!
Jun 09 2020
parent reply ADEV <adev gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 at 21:00:04 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 something like this must happen to D 
 https://blog.golang.org/vscode-go

 commitment from the team that tooling is key to success!


- crossplatform
- top notch dub support
- at least basic code completion
- debugging / breakpoint / watch
Jun 09 2020
parent aberba <karabutaworld gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 at 21:01:41 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 at 21:00:04 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 something like this must happen to D 
 https://blog.golang.org/vscode-go

 commitment from the team that tooling is key to success!


 - crossplatform
 - top notch dub support
 - at least basic code completion
 - debugging / breakpoint / watch


Does code-d in VS Code not provide these?
Jun 09 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent Luis <luis.panadero gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 11:29:01 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 I want to code in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so i 
 can avoid stupid typos, and be more productive

 I want my favorite IDE to have an integrated debugger, so i can 
 fix bugs in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to understand my project and 
 dependencies, so i spend less time trying to figure out or to 
 remember EVERYTHING at once myself

 I want my favorite IDE to help me be more productive using the 
 language i love


I agree with ADDEV that the whole tooling/IDE feel subpar 
compared against other languages.
Jun 06 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent =?UTF-8?B?0JLQuNGC0LDQu9C40Lkg0KTQsNC0?= =?UTF-8?B?0LXQtdCy?= writes:
On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 11:29:01 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 I want to code in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so i 
 can avoid stupid typos, and be more productive

 [...]


Just do it!
And be the Hero! Better than Chuck Norris!
Jun 06 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent reply mw <mingwu gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 11:29:01 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 I want to code in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so i 
 can avoid stupid typos, and be more productive

 I want my favorite IDE to have an integrated debugger, so i can 
 fix bugs in peace


Have you tried Visual D ?

http://rainers.github.io/visuald/visuald/StartPage.html


I think we should add this VisualD link directly on
https://dlang.org/ or
https://dlang.org/download.html

to give new user to D a better starter experience.
Jun 06 2020
parent reply Manu <turkeyman gmail.com> writes:
On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 5:30 AM mw via Digitalmars-d <
digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:


 On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 11:29:01 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 I want to code in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so i
 can avoid stupid typos, and be more productive

 I want my favorite IDE to have an integrated debugger, so i can
 fix bugs in peace


 Have you tried Visual D ?

 http://rainers.github.io/visuald/visuald/StartPage.html


 I think we should add this VisualD link directly on
 https://dlang.org/ or
 https://dlang.org/download.html

 to give new user to D a better starter experience.


VisualD is on the download page actually, but it should be higher with a
big icon.
One interesting detail is that VisualD can manage the toolchain
installations, which is very convenient, so a new D user who chooses
VisualD should not be misdirected by attempting to install toolchains
themselves when they don't need to complete those tasks to get moving.
Less steps in the getting-started guide is good.
Jun 09 2020
parent sclytrack <fake hotmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 at 23:45:08 UTC, Manu wrote:

 On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 5:30 AM mw via Digitalmars-d < 
 digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:


 On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 11:29:01 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 I want to code in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so 
 i can avoid stupid typos, and be more productive

 I want my favorite IDE to have an integrated debugger, so i 
 can fix bugs in peace


 Have you tried Visual D ?

 http://rainers.github.io/visuald/visuald/StartPage.html


 I think we should add this VisualD link directly on
 https://dlang.org/ or
 https://dlang.org/download.html

 to give new user to D a better starter experience.







 Less steps in the getting-started guide is good.



Good for people just getting started.

3D Fundamentals - 01 - Setting up D and GTK
(not my video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6HN7PAoeTY
Jun 09 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Manu <turkeyman gmail.com> writes:
On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 9:30 PM ADEV via Digitalmars-d <
digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:


 I want to code in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so i can
 avoid stupid typos, and be more productive

 I want my favorite IDE to have an integrated debugger, so i can
 fix bugs in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to understand my project and dependencies,
 so i spend less time trying to figure out or to remember
 EVERYTHING at once myself

 I want my favorite IDE to help me be more productive using the
 language i love

 Why is the community so split and silent with that issue

 I don't understand how people can't understand how important this
 is

 Are we forced to create this similar post every fking year to
 bring awareness?

 D is the best language ever created, but its tools are DOGSHIT,
 because when it's time to debug something, it's a pain in the
 fking ASS

 vim, tim, bim, kim, zim, him, pim, tik, tok are not IDEs


 We had DLS, the best tool and the best plugin's editor for D

 And this community managed to make its author to quit, and this
 went ignored..

 Even D co-creator quit

 No fresh blood anymore, why nobody care, if all the spammers and
 bikesheeders from this forum donated $10 / month, we could hire a
 professional and dedicated developper to work and maintain decent
 plugins for the most popular IDEs

 All it takes to drive adoption up, is ONE, and ONE single
 dedicated person who is willing to make the D experience easier
 for the people

 It's not hard, IDEs can help with that, just like popular
 libraries (flutter), all it take is 1, just 1



Your favourite IDE is VisualStudio (not-VSCode). Try it out, it's free for
personal use since 5+ years ago.
Seriously, I think a lot of people in dlang have no idea how excellent the
VS integration has become.
Jun 09 2020
next sibling parent reply aberba <karabutaworld gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 at 23:40:58 UTC, Manu wrote:

 On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 9:30 PM ADEV via Digitalmars-d < 
 digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:


 [...]



 Your favourite IDE is VisualStudio (not-VSCode). Try it out, 
 it's free for
 personal use since 5+ years ago.
 Seriously, I think a lot of people in dlang have no idea how 
 excellent the
 VS integration has become.


Ever used used VS code for long?
Jun 09 2020
parent evilrat <evilrat666 gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 10 June 2020 at 00:52:56 UTC, aberba wrote:

 On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 at 23:40:58 UTC, Manu wrote:

 On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 9:30 PM ADEV via Digitalmars-d < 
 digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:


 [...]



 Your favourite IDE is VisualStudio (not-VSCode). Try it out, 
 it's free for
 personal use since 5+ years ago.
 Seriously, I think a lot of people in dlang have no idea how 
 excellent the
 VS integration has become.


 Ever used used VS code for long?


I do. Even prefer it to VisualD despite all its niceties.

VisualD is now indeed powerful, it has rich syntax highlight and 
all the stuff, is pretty stable, and one of its truly superior 
features - it has debugger bridge that allows one to inspect most 
of the D stuff and at least partially utilize immediate 
interpreter window.

Unfortunately I prefer to use VS Code + DLS (not code-d, it just 
has too many issues) because auto completion in VisualD may take 
up to few seconds to show up.
And no, I'm not the text editor adept who remember each and every 
function in standard library and all of my own projects, so this 
is incredibly important.
Jun 09 2020
prev sibling parent Ernesto Castellotti <erny.castell gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 at 23:40:58 UTC, Manu wrote:

 On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 9:30 PM ADEV via Digitalmars-d < 
 digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:


 [...]



 Your favourite IDE is VisualStudio (not-VSCode). Try it out, 
 it's free for
 personal use since 5+ years ago.
 Seriously, I think a lot of people in dlang have no idea how 
 excellent the
 VS integration has become.


On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 at 23:40:58 UTC, Manu wrote:

 On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 9:30 PM ADEV via Digitalmars-d < 
 digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:


 [...]



 Your favourite IDE is VisualStudio (not-VSCode). Try it out, 
 it's free for
 personal use since 5+ years ago.
 Seriously, I think a lot of people in dlang have no idea how 
 excellent the
 VS integration has become.


Is it really good, the problem?  Windows, we need a 
cross-platform ide or at least a good ide for Linux and MacOS as 
good as VisualD
Jun 09 2020
prev sibling parent reply Damian Roy Day <damianroyday gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 6 June 2020 at 11:29:01 UTC, ADEV wrote:

 I want to code in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to provide great auto-completion, so i 
 can avoid stupid typos, and be more productive

 I want my favorite IDE to have an integrated debugger, so i can 
 fix bugs in peace

 I want my favorite IDE to understand my project and 
 dependencies, so i spend less time trying to figure out or to 
 remember EVERYTHING at once myself

 I want my favorite IDE to help me be more productive using the 
 language i love

 Why is the community so split and silent with that issue

 I don't understand how people can't understand how important 
 this is

 Are we forced to create this similar post every fking year to 
 bring awareness?

 D is the best language ever created, but its tools are DOGSHIT, 
 because when it's time to debug something, it's a pain in the 
 fking ASS

 vim, tim, bim, kim, zim, him, pim, tik, tok are not IDEs


 We had DLS, the best tool and the best plugin's editor for D

 And this community managed to make its author to quit, and this 
 went ignored..

 Even D co-creator quit

 No fresh blood anymore, why nobody care, if all the spammers 
 and bikesheeders from this forum donated $10 / month, we could 
 hire a professional and dedicated developper to work and 
 maintain decent plugins for the most popular IDEs

 All it takes to drive adoption up, is ONE, and ONE single 
 dedicated person who is willing to make the D experience easier 
 for the people

 It's not hard, IDEs can help with that, just like popular 
 libraries (flutter), all it take is 1, just 1


It could be done by one person, one very talented person.. 
unfortunately almost all of them are already taken and working on 
projects. If you did manage to find the right person could we 
realistically fund them to work on such a project.

Having said that I have enjoyed using what the community has 
developed over the years, monod, coded, visuald etc but they do 
all seem to die off eventually which is upsetting.
Jun 11 2020
parent mw <mingwu gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 20:54:41 UTC, Damian Roy Day wrote:

 Having said that I have enjoyed using what the community has 
 developed over the years, monod, coded, visuald etc but they do 
 all seem to die off eventually which is upsetting.


The last two are in active development,

https://github.com/Pure-D/code-d
https://github.com/dlang/visuald

and there are others too:

https://wiki.dlang.org/IDEs
Jun 11 2020