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digitalmars.D - Google Summer of Code 2011 application

reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars. 
Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


Thanks,

Andrei
Mar 08 2011
next sibling parent Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.  
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:


Great!

Maybe a proper tool to convert C/C++ to D?
Most importantly header files with a correct translation of constness,  
conditional compilation etc.,
but partial automation of C++ source code translation (merging method  
implementations into one class declaration and so on) could also be nice.

Perhaps basing on
http://dsource.org/projects/visuald/browser/trunk/c2d
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Tomek =?ISO-8859-2?B?U293afFza2k=?= <just ask.me> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu napisa=B3:


 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.=


=20

 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:
=20
 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


Please throw in database interfacing.

Does putting up XML mean I should stop working on it?

--=20
Tomek
Mar 08 2011
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 3/8/2011 1:23 PM, Tomek Sowiński wrote:

 Andrei Alexandrescu napisał:


 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Please throw in database interfacing.


The wiki is user edittable! Add what you want.


 Does putting up XML mean I should stop working on it?


No. It's a long time until summer.
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/8/11 1:23 PM, Tomek Sowiński wrote:

 Andrei Alexandrescu napisał:


 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Please throw in database interfacing.

 Does putting up XML mean I should stop working on it?


No, but it does mean you should change the wiki to mention the status of 
the undergoing project and flesh out how you could be helped. If you are 
reasonably confident you have it under control and ready to pass 
scrutiny, feel free to delete that section.

Thanks,

Andrei
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 08/03/2011 19:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


Hum, is it important to flesh these out before the deadline for applying 
to be a mentoring organization (11th of March)?

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Mar 08 2011
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/8/11 2:35 PM, Bruno Medeiros wrote:

 On 08/03/2011 19:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 Hum, is it important to flesh these out before the deadline for applying
 to be a mentoring organization (11th of March)?


The document is an evolving entity, but the better it is before the 
deadline, the more chances we have to secure admission.

Andrei
Mar 08 2011
parent Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 08/03/2011 23:07, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 3/8/11 2:35 PM, Bruno Medeiros wrote:

 On 08/03/2011 19:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 Hum, is it important to flesh these out before the deadline for applying
 to be a mentoring organization (11th of March)?


 The document is an evolving entity, but the better it is before the
 deadline, the more chances we have to secure admission.

 Andrei


Hum, I guess that counts as important then.

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jens Mueller <jens.k.mueller gmx.de> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital
 Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:
 
 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


Great. I find all of the provided projects useful. Maybe one should add
ZeroMQ to the bindings project. I haven't used it myself. But it seems
useful.
Before I change the wiki page I'd like to receive some feedback for some
ideas. Somehow I think it's important to offer not too much. Just tell
what's important for you and what you really miss in D.

=Improved documentation=
I think there should be a standard theme (like the one you find for
Java; Candydoc is a good step in that direction) and unittests should be
included in the documentation
(http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2630).
This is not much. Maybe more can be added.

=Testing Framework=
Building a testing framework on top of the available built-in unittests
and assertions. Includes maybe also improving the built-in assert and
build-in unittests (named unittests). Something like GoogleTest.

=Logging Library=
It was once on the list but it didn't lead to anything. Something like
Google-glog.

=Units Library=
It was once on the list but it didn't lead to anything. Like
Boost.Units.

=Containers=
What about better/more containers for std.container. Which?

=std.sysinfo/core.cpuid=
There is core.cpuid. I think it has no unittests which is bad. At least
on Linux one could try parsing /proc/cpuinfo to have some tests.
std.sysinfo would be an extension to core.cpuid providing system
specific information that are not covered by core.cpuid.

I'm going to write better descriptions in the wiki page if a project is
considered interesting.

Jens
Mar 08 2011
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/8/11 3:11 PM, Jens Mueller wrote:

 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital
 Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Great. I find all of the provided projects useful. Maybe one should add
 ZeroMQ to the bindings project. I haven't used it myself. But it seems
 useful.
 Before I change the wiki page I'd like to receive some feedback for some
 ideas. Somehow I think it's important to offer not too much. Just tell
 what's important for you and what you really miss in D.

 =Improved documentation=
 I think there should be a standard theme (like the one you find for
 Java; Candydoc is a good step in that direction) and unittests should be
 included in the documentation
 (http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2630).
 This is not much. Maybe more can be added.

 =Testing Framework=
 Building a testing framework on top of the available built-in unittests
 and assertions. Includes maybe also improving the built-in assert and
 build-in unittests (named unittests). Something like GoogleTest.

 =Logging Library=
 It was once on the list but it didn't lead to anything. Something like
 Google-glog.

 =Units Library=
 It was once on the list but it didn't lead to anything. Like
 Boost.Units.

 =Containers=
 What about better/more containers for std.container. Which?

 =std.sysinfo/core.cpuid=
 There is core.cpuid. I think it has no unittests which is bad. At least
 on Linux one could try parsing /proc/cpuinfo to have some tests.
 std.sysinfo would be an extension to core.cpuid providing system
 specific information that are not covered by core.cpuid.

 I'm going to write better descriptions in the wiki page if a project is
 considered interesting.

 Jens


Of these I think logging, units, and containers would be good.

Andrei
Mar 08 2011
parent Jens Mueller <jens.k.mueller gmx.de> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 3/8/11 3:11 PM, Jens Mueller wrote:

Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital
Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


Great. I find all of the provided projects useful. Maybe one should add
ZeroMQ to the bindings project. I haven't used it myself. But it seems
useful.
Before I change the wiki page I'd like to receive some feedback for some
ideas. Somehow I think it's important to offer not too much. Just tell
what's important for you and what you really miss in D.

=Improved documentation=
I think there should be a standard theme (like the one you find for
Java; Candydoc is a good step in that direction) and unittests should be
included in the documentation
(http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2630).
This is not much. Maybe more can be added.

=Testing Framework=
Building a testing framework on top of the available built-in unittests
and assertions. Includes maybe also improving the built-in assert and
build-in unittests (named unittests). Something like GoogleTest.

=Logging Library=
It was once on the list but it didn't lead to anything. Something like
Google-glog.

=Units Library=
It was once on the list but it didn't lead to anything. Like
Boost.Units.

=Containers=
What about better/more containers for std.container. Which?

=std.sysinfo/core.cpuid=
There is core.cpuid. I think it has no unittests which is bad. At least
on Linux one could try parsing /proc/cpuinfo to have some tests.
std.sysinfo would be an extension to core.cpuid providing system
specific information that are not covered by core.cpuid.

I'm going to write better descriptions in the wiki page if a project is
considered interesting.

Jens


 
 Of these I think logging, units, and containers would be good.


I added those.

Jens
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 08.03.2011 20:37, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


Two (ok, maybe three) IDE related ideas:

1. integration of the profiler (use profilers output to directly jump to 
related sections in the code, mark time-intensive sections, stuff like that)

2. possibility to show assembly code from (de-)compiled executable 
inline in source so it's easier for developers who don't know much 
assembly language to understand how much machine code is generated by 
their code, possibly creating bottlenecks from harmless-looking 
statements etc.

3. Any work on IDEs should be for cross-platform IDEs, maybe eclipse DDT 
or codeblocks. Or maybe somebody could port D-IDE (d-ide.sf.net), which 
is pretty good as far as I know, to mono so it can be used on other 
platforms than windows?

(I post this here for discussion before inserting it in the wiki).

Cheers,
- Daniel
Mar 08 2011
next sibling parent reply %u <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:
 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital


Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
 Thanks,
 Andrei


Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I feel
that's *much* more important than benchmarking, for instance, since it
doesn't make sense to benchmark something if it has bugs. :\
Mar 08 2011
next sibling parent reply Dmitry Olshansky <dmitry.olsh gmail.com> writes:
On 09.03.2011 2:50, %u wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital


 Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
 Thanks,
 Andrei


 Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I feel
 that's *much* more important than benchmarking, for instance, since it
 doesn't make sense to benchmark something if it has bugs. :\


The funny thing is that sometimes it makes perfect sense, as benchmarks 
_do_ push the limits of, for instance, GC and may reveal a latent bug ;)

-- 
Dmitry Olshansky
Mar 08 2011
parent reply %u <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:
 Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I




feel that's *much* more important than benchmarking, for instance,
since it doesn't make sense to benchmark something if it has bugs.
:\

 The funny thing is that sometimes it makes perfect sense, as


benchmarks _do_ push the limits of, for instance, GC and may reveal
a latent bug ;)

Those are a very specific class of bugs -- bigger bugs like compiler
errors with handling templates are completely unrelated to
benchmarking, and they can be a deal breaker for many people.

I don't think anyone cares about *speed* as much as *correctness*...
would you rather have your 50% accurate program be twice as fast, or
have your 100% accurate program be half as fast?
Mar 08 2011
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/8/11 4:11 PM, %u wrote:

 Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I




 feel that's *much* more important than benchmarking, for instance,
 since it doesn't make sense to benchmark something if it has bugs.
 :\

 The funny thing is that sometimes it makes perfect sense, as


 benchmarks _do_ push the limits of, for instance, GC and may reveal
 a latent bug ;)

 Those are a very specific class of bugs -- bigger bugs like compiler
 errors with handling templates are completely unrelated to
 benchmarking, and they can be a deal breaker for many people.

 I don't think anyone cares about *speed* as much as *correctness*...
 would you rather have your 50% accurate program be twice as fast, or
 have your 100% accurate program be half as fast?


In machine learning it's very common to trade off accuracy for speed.

Andrei
Mar 08 2011
next sibling parent reply %u <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:
 In machine learning it's very common to trade off accuracy for


speed.

 Andrei


Er... do you _honestly_ think people will start writing machine
learning programs in D, when we're even having trouble getting them
to use D for more typical applications (because of bugs)?

Also, I (obviously) used the word "accuracy" to mean
"predictability", not "approximation". If you can't predict whether
your program is multiplying the result by zero or by one (because of
a lambda template bug in the compiler), that's quite different from
having inaccurate floating-point implementations that change the
number 1.000 to 0.998. People using D for machine learning might
tolerate the latter, but I doubt they can tolerate the former...
Mar 08 2011
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/8/11 8:30 PM, %u wrote:

 In machine learning it's very common to trade off accuracy for


 speed.

 Andrei


 Er... do you _honestly_ think people will start writing machine
 learning programs in D, when we're even having trouble getting them
 to use D for more typical applications (because of bugs)?


Yes. I've already written a ton of ML code in D. I predict actually that 
D will be a prime language for ML - it has quite what it takes.


 Also, I (obviously) used the word "accuracy" to mean
 "predictability", not "approximation".


Then you were being inaccurate :o).


Andrei
Mar 08 2011
parent %u <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:
 Also, I (obviously) used the word "accuracy" to mean




"predictability", not "approximation".

 Then you were being inaccurate :o).
 Andrei


I thought the meaning was predictable. :P
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent spir <denis.spir gmail.com> writes:
On 03/09/2011 01:52 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 3/8/11 4:11 PM, %u wrote:

 Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I




 feel that's *much* more important than benchmarking, for instance,
 since it doesn't make sense to benchmark something if it has bugs.
 :\

 The funny thing is that sometimes it makes perfect sense, as


 benchmarks _do_ push the limits of, for instance, GC and may reveal
 a latent bug ;)

 Those are a very specific class of bugs -- bigger bugs like compiler
 errors with handling templates are completely unrelated to
 benchmarking, and they can be a deal breaker for many people.

 I don't think anyone cares about *speed* as much as *correctness*...
 would you rather have your 50% accurate program be twice as fast, or
 have your 100% accurate program be half as fast?


 In machine learning it's very common to trade off accuracy for speed.


Accuracy is not correctness. A result can be inaccurate and correct inside a 
tolerance field, which is precisely one common path for machine learning. If 
the program were incorrect, the machine would not learn (what one expects it to 
learn).

Denis
-- 
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling parent spir <denis.spir gmail.com> writes:
On 03/09/2011 10:57 AM, spir wrote:

 On 03/09/2011 01:52 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 3/8/11 4:11 PM, %u wrote:

 Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I




 feel that's *much* more important than benchmarking, for instance,
 since it doesn't make sense to benchmark something if it has bugs.
 :\

 The funny thing is that sometimes it makes perfect sense, as


 benchmarks _do_ push the limits of, for instance, GC and may reveal
 a latent bug ;)

 Those are a very specific class of bugs -- bigger bugs like compiler
 errors with handling templates are completely unrelated to
 benchmarking, and they can be a deal breaker for many people.

 I don't think anyone cares about *speed* as much as *correctness*...
 would you rather have your 50% accurate program be twice as fast, or
 have your 100% accurate program be half as fast?


 In machine learning it's very common to trade off accuracy for speed.


 Accuracy is not correctness. A result can be inaccurate and correct inside a
 tolerance field, which is precisely one common path for machine learning. If
 the program were incorrect, the machine would not learn (what one expects it to
 learn).


Sorry, I was unclear. I meant inaccuracy and incorrectness can often two 
different notions, depending on the topic. Just like simplicity and difficulty. 
While people often mistake one for the other.

Denis
-- 
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jens Mueller <jens.k.mueller gmx.de> writes:
%u wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital


 Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
 Thanks,
 Andrei


 
 Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I feel
 that's *much* more important than benchmarking, for instance, since it
 doesn't make sense to benchmark something if it has bugs. :\


I have the same feeling. I'd like to see such projects. But I believe
students are more likely to pick feature-oriented projects. The stuff
that sounds cool. Compare: I implemented a Garbage Collector for D that
improved performance dramatically vs. I fixed bugs in the compiler.
I do not think that fixing bugs is less demanding. Actually I do believe
it's more difficult and it is fun. You know the feeling, when you
finally understand what's the cause of the problem and when you know how
to fix it properly.
Do you have an idea for packaging fixing bugs in a way that makes it
look more interesting?

Jens
Mar 08 2011
next sibling parent %u <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:
 Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I feel that's
*much* more




important than benchmarking, for instance, since it doesn't make sense to
benchmark something if
it has bugs. :\


 I have the same feeling. I'd like to see such projects. But I believe students
are more likely


to pick feature-oriented projects. The stuff that sounds cool. Compare: I
implemented a Garbage
Collector for D that improved performance dramatically vs. I fixed bugs in the
compiler. I do not
think that fixing bugs is less demanding. Actually I do believe it's more
difficult and it is
fun. You know the feeling, when you finally understand what's the cause of the
problem and when
you know how to fix it properly. Do you have an idea for packaging fixing bugs
in a way that
makes it
look more interesting?


100% agree. :) I'm a student myself and I'm really considering GSoC for D, but
from my own
perspective I'd only do it if I could fix bugs in the compiler -- *that* is
what I truly enjoy
doing (since I really want to help D become more popular), and _not_ timing the
application's
performance. Benchmarking would just be like mopping the floor for me... it's
important in its
own right, but I'm not sure if college students would actually enjoy doing it;
I certainly
wouldn't.

(Personally, I think *THE* most important factor that's hindering the adoption
of D are the
compiler bugs, _not_ performance. If people can't write correct code, they
wouldn't even give a
second thought to optimizations; I think putting workforce toward optimization
is a bit premature
at this moment.)
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling parent reply Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 09/03/2011 00:21, Jens Mueller wrote:

 I have the same feeling. I'd like to see such projects. But I believe
 students are more likely to pick feature-oriented projects. The stuff
 that sounds cool.


And I wouldn't be surprised if Google as well is also more likely to 
accepted feature-oriented projects than bug-fix ones.

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Mar 08 2011
parent reply %u <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:
 I have the same feeling. I'd like to see such projects. But I




believe students are more likely to pick feature-oriented projects.
The stuff that sounds cool.

 And I wouldn't be surprised if Google as well is also more likely


to accepted feature-oriented projects than bug-fix ones.

Wait, I think I'm confused -- which ones are "feature-oriented
projects" and which ones aren't?

I'm only a single voice, but for my student perspective, I frankly
wouldn't waste my time joining a benchmarking project; however, I
would definitely consider helping get the compiler bugs fixed. After
all, if it's open-source, then students should be able to help
contribute, right? What's the point of restricting the compiler work
to beyond their reach, especially if that's what needs some of the
most help in and especially if they might be more interested in it?
Mar 08 2011
next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Tuesday 08 March 2011 20:34:00 %u wrote:

 I have the same feeling. I'd like to see such projects. But I




 
 believe students are more likely to pick feature-oriented projects.
 The stuff that sounds cool.
 

 And I wouldn't be surprised if Google as well is also more likely


 
 to accepted feature-oriented projects than bug-fix ones.
 
 Wait, I think I'm confused -- which ones are "feature-oriented
 projects" and which ones aren't?
 
 I'm only a single voice, but for my student perspective, I frankly
 wouldn't waste my time joining a benchmarking project; however, I
 would definitely consider helping get the compiler bugs fixed. After
 all, if it's open-source, then students should be able to help
 contribute, right? What's the point of restricting the compiler work
 to beyond their reach, especially if that's what needs some of the
 most help in and especially if they might be more interested in it?


The compiler is just one component. druntime and Phobos are part of it as well. 
A good example of a feature-oriented project for druntime would be working on 
the GC. For Phobos, stuff like a logging module or an xml module would be good 
examples of feature-oriented projects. They're tasks to implement or 
significantly improve a specific feature, not work on general bugs.

- Jonathan M Davis
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On 3/8/2011 8:34 PM, %u wrote:

 I have the same feeling. I'd like to see such projects. But I




 believe students are more likely to pick feature-oriented projects.
 The stuff that sounds cool.

 And I wouldn't be surprised if Google as well is also more likely


 to accepted feature-oriented projects than bug-fix ones.
 
 Wait, I think I'm confused -- which ones are "feature-oriented
 projects" and which ones aren't?
 
 I'm only a single voice, but for my student perspective, I frankly
 wouldn't waste my time joining a benchmarking project; however, I
 would definitely consider helping get the compiler bugs fixed. After
 all, if it's open-source, then students should be able to help
 contribute, right? What's the point of restricting the compiler work
 to beyond their reach, especially if that's what needs some of the
 most help in and especially if they might be more interested in it?


Out of curiosity, what's stopping you from helping fix bugs right now?  I agree
that being paid for it adds motivation,
but if it's something you want to do, do it.
Mar 08 2011
parent %u <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:
 Out of curiosity, what's stopping you from helping fix bugs right


now?  I agree that being paid for it adds motivation, but if it's
something you want to do, do it.

Great question! :)

Right now? The fact that I'm in school and have other things to do. :(

During the summer? The fact that I might have an internship or
something else to do. :\

If I have time, though, I'll definitely give it a shot! :)
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 09.03.2011 00:50, schrieb %u:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital


 Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
 Thanks,
 Andrei


 Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I feel
 that's *much* more important than benchmarking, for instance, since it
 doesn't make sense to benchmark something if it has bugs. :\


I don't know if 3 months(?) are enough time to become acquainted with 
the compiler *and* do something useful with that knowledge.
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent spir <denis.spir gmail.com> writes:
On 03/09/2011 01:21 AM, Jens Mueller wrote:

 %u wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital


 Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
 Thanks,
 Andrei


 Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I feel
 that's *much* more important than benchmarking, for instance, since it
 doesn't make sense to benchmark something if it has bugs. :\


 I have the same feeling. I'd like to see such projects. But I believe
 students are more likely to pick feature-oriented projects. The stuff
 that sounds cool. Compare: I implemented a Garbage Collector for D that
 improved performance dramatically vs. I fixed bugs in the compiler.
 I do not think that fixing bugs is less demanding. Actually I do believe
 it's more difficult and it is fun. You know the feeling, when you
 finally understand what's the cause of the problem and when you know how
 to fix it properly.
 Do you have an idea for packaging fixing bugs in a way that makes it
 look more interesting?


The real issue, I guess, is that fixing bugs (efficiently) require getting an 
intimate knowledge of the app.

Denis
-- 
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling parent Jens Mueller <jens.k.mueller gmx.de> writes:
spir wrote:

 On 03/09/2011 01:21 AM, Jens Mueller wrote:

%u wrote:

I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital


Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas
Thanks,
Andrei


Uh... how helping fix compiler bugs? Could we help with that? I feel
that's *much* more important than benchmarking, for instance, since it
doesn't make sense to benchmark something if it has bugs. :\


I have the same feeling. I'd like to see such projects. But I believe
students are more likely to pick feature-oriented projects. The stuff
that sounds cool. Compare: I implemented a Garbage Collector for D that
improved performance dramatically vs. I fixed bugs in the compiler.
I do not think that fixing bugs is less demanding. Actually I do believe
it's more difficult and it is fun. You know the feeling, when you
finally understand what's the cause of the problem and when you know how
to fix it properly.
Do you have an idea for packaging fixing bugs in a way that makes it
look more interesting?


 
 The real issue, I guess, is that fixing bugs (efficiently) require
 getting an intimate knowledge of the app.


That is true. But I believe there are students who are amazingly good at
this. Further there is always the mentor who can give advice and of
course the community. If %u really likes fixing bugs and has enough time
over summer he/she should submit it as a project. To attract more
students for this kind of work one needs a good project description.
That is what I find difficult.

Jens
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-09 00:14, Daniel Gibson wrote:

 Am 08.03.2011 20:37, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 Two (ok, maybe three) IDE related ideas:

 1. integration of the profiler (use profilers output to directly jump to
 related sections in the code, mark time-intensive sections, stuff like
 that)

 2. possibility to show assembly code from (de-)compiled executable
 inline in source so it's easier for developers who don't know much
 assembly language to understand how much machine code is generated by
 their code, possibly creating bottlenecks from harmless-looking
 statements etc.

 3. Any work on IDEs should be for cross-platform IDEs, maybe eclipse DDT
 or codeblocks. Or maybe somebody could port D-IDE (d-ide.sf.net), which
 is pretty good as far as I know, to mono so it can be used on other
 platforms than windows?


Wouldn't it be better to use a platform independent GUI library.


 (I post this here for discussion before inserting it in the wiki).

 Cheers,
 - Daniel



-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Mar 09 2011
parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 09.03.2011 09:39, schrieb Jacob Carlborg:

 On 2011-03-09 00:14, Daniel Gibson wrote:

 Am 08.03.2011 20:37, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 Two (ok, maybe three) IDE related ideas:

 1. integration of the profiler (use profilers output to directly jump to
 related sections in the code, mark time-intensive sections, stuff like
 that)

 2. possibility to show assembly code from (de-)compiled executable
 inline in source so it's easier for developers who don't know much
 assembly language to understand how much machine code is generated by
 their code, possibly creating bottlenecks from harmless-looking
 statements etc.

 3. Any work on IDEs should be for cross-platform IDEs, maybe eclipse DDT
 or codeblocks. Or maybe somebody could port D-IDE (d-ide.sf.net), which
 is pretty good as far as I know, to mono so it can be used on other
 platforms than windows?


 Wouldn't it be better to use a platform independent GUI library.


When starting from scratch - certainly.
But if D-IDE should be improved/ported - which currently uses .Net - 
mono is probably the best choice (better than rewriting it completely).

something like that for a more native look and feel?

And if some other IDE should be improved (probably it should be 
discussed what specific IDE this should be anyway) then *please* improve 
a cross-platform IDE like eclipse DDT or codeblocks (and not, e.g. 
Visual D or Posedion, because those are only available on Windows anyway).

Something else to consider: For improvements-of-existing-IDEs the 
current IDE developers should probably be involved as mentors.

Cheers,
- Daniel
Mar 09 2011
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-09 13:09, Daniel Gibson wrote:

 Am 09.03.2011 09:39, schrieb Jacob Carlborg:

 On 2011-03-09 00:14, Daniel Gibson wrote:

 Am 08.03.2011 20:37, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital
 Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 Two (ok, maybe three) IDE related ideas:

 1. integration of the profiler (use profilers output to directly jump to
 related sections in the code, mark time-intensive sections, stuff like
 that)

 2. possibility to show assembly code from (de-)compiled executable
 inline in source so it's easier for developers who don't know much
 assembly language to understand how much machine code is generated by
 their code, possibly creating bottlenecks from harmless-looking
 statements etc.

 3. Any work on IDEs should be for cross-platform IDEs, maybe eclipse DDT
 or codeblocks. Or maybe somebody could port D-IDE (d-ide.sf.net), which
 is pretty good as far as I know, to mono so it can be used on other
 platforms than windows?


 Wouldn't it be better to use a platform independent GUI library.


 When starting from scratch - certainly.
 But if D-IDE should be improved/ported - which currently uses .Net -
 mono is probably the best choice (better than rewriting it completely).

 something like that for a more native look and feel?


Sorry, I assumed it was written in D, don't why I got that from.


 And if some other IDE should be improved (probably it should be
 discussed what specific IDE this should be anyway) then *please* improve
 a cross-platform IDE like eclipse DDT or codeblocks (and not, e.g.
 Visual D or Posedion, because those are only available on Windows anyway).

 Something else to consider: For improvements-of-existing-IDEs the
 current IDE developers should probably be involved as mentors.

 Cheers,
 - Daniel



-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent spir <denis.spir gmail.com> writes:
On 03/08/2011 08:37 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars. Please
 review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


Added topic "D tools in D".

Denis
-- 
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-08 20:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one, 
DWT for example.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Mar 09 2011
next sibling parent reply Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
 How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one, 
 DWT for example.


Good idea, but rather improve GtkD or QtD.
Mar 09 2011
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-09 11:11, Trass3r wrote:

 How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one,
 DWT for example.


 Good idea, but rather improve GtkD or QtD.


Too bad that's the general opinion people seem to have about GUI 
libraries. I don't understand what they don't like about DWT.

BTW, I received a patch for DWT which makes it work with D2.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Mar 09 2011
next sibling parent reply spir <denis.spir gmail.com> writes:
On 03/09/2011 11:46 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2011-03-09 11:11, Trass3r wrote:

 How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one,
 DWT for example.


 Good idea, but rather improve GtkD or QtD.


 Too bad that's the general opinion people seem to have about GUI libraries. I
 don't understand what they don't like about DWT.


I think the advantage of gtk or Qt is people can reinvest previous knowledge of 
the framework. (I mean, they are cross-language in addition to be 
cross-platform ;-) I would personly prefere a clearly designed D-specific GUI 
system than gtk's huge mess. (Dunno about Qt, people seem to find it far better 
designed, but recent events...)

Denis
-- 
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com
Mar 09 2011
next sibling parent reply %u <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:
 I think the advantage of gtk or Qt is people can reinvest previous


knowledge of the framework. (I mean, they are cross-language in
addition to be cross-platform ;-) I would personly prefere a clearly
designed D-specific GUI system than gtk's huge mess. (Dunno about
Qt, people seem to find it far better designed, but recent
events...)

 Denis


There's something I absolutely ***HATE*** about Gtk, and it's the
fact that the controls aren't real controls: The buttons don't fade
the way they're supposed to in Windows 7, because they aren't even
buttons in the first place. (They're just rectangles drawn to _look_
like buttons, but they fail at imitating them.)

Maybe I'm OCD, but I just can't stand developing with Gtk. :(
Mar 09 2011
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-09 12:12, %u wrote:

 I think the advantage of gtk or Qt is people can reinvest previous


 knowledge of the framework. (I mean, they are cross-language in
 addition to be cross-platform ;-) I would personly prefere a clearly
 designed D-specific GUI system than gtk's huge mess. (Dunno about
 Qt, people seem to find it far better designed, but recent
 events...)

 Denis


 There's something I absolutely ***HATE*** about Gtk, and it's the
 fact that the controls aren't real controls: The buttons don't fade
 the way they're supposed to in Windows 7, because they aren't even
 buttons in the first place. (They're just rectangles drawn to _look_
 like buttons, but they fail at imitating them.)


I feel exactly the same.


 Maybe I'm OCD, but I just can't stand developing with Gtk. :(



-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 09.03.2011 11:55, schrieb spir:

 On 03/09/2011 11:46 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2011-03-09 11:11, Trass3r wrote:

 How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one,
 DWT for example.


 Good idea, but rather improve GtkD or QtD.


 Too bad that's the general opinion people seem to have about GUI
 libraries. I
 don't understand what they don't like about DWT.


 I think the advantage of gtk or Qt is people can reinvest previous
 knowledge of the framework. (I mean, they are cross-language in addition
 to be cross-platform ;-) I would personly prefere a clearly designed
 D-specific GUI system than gtk's huge mess. (Dunno about Qt, people seem
 to find it far better designed, but recent events...)

 Denis


AFAIK DDT is modeled after (Java) SWT (used in eclipse).

I'd love to see DWT improved, so it really works on all/most platforms 
that are supported by SWT, especially Linux i386/amd64 and OSX.
(I haven't looked at DWT's homepage for some time and it currently seems 
to be down due to dsource issues).

Cheers,
- Daniel
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-09 11:55, spir wrote:

 On 03/09/2011 11:46 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2011-03-09 11:11, Trass3r wrote:

 How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one,
 DWT for example.


 Good idea, but rather improve GtkD or QtD.


 Too bad that's the general opinion people seem to have about GUI
 libraries. I
 don't understand what they don't like about DWT.


 I think the advantage of gtk or Qt is people can reinvest previous
 knowledge of the framework. (I mean, they are cross-language in addition
 to be cross-platform ;-) I would personly prefere a clearly designed
 D-specific GUI system than gtk's huge mess. (Dunno about Qt, people seem
 to find it far better designed, but recent events...)

 Denis


Since DWT is a port of SWT people can reinvest previous knowledge there 
as well. In fact, that's what I did. I can also add that Java is 
probably the language that most looks like D, syntactically. You don't 
have to learn some kind of object oriented wrapper that GtkD possibly uses.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling parent reply Andrew Wiley <debio264 gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> wrote:

 On 2011-03-09 11:11, Trass3r wrote:

 How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one,
 DWT for example.


 Good idea, but rather improve GtkD or QtD.


 Too bad that's the general opinion people seem to have about GUI libraries.
 I don't understand what they don't like about DWT.

 BTW, I received a patch for DWT which makes it work with D2.


Coming from the Java world, I'm a big fan of SWT because it's fast and
native, and I started out using DWT, but I was frightened away when I
realized that DWT contains a reimplementation of a significant portion
of the Java standard library. It just seems like a decent UI framework
for D shouldn't require another language's standard library to be
ported over, but maybe I'm just critical.
Where would I find DWT for D2?
Mar 09 2011
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-09 23:16, Andrew Wiley wrote:

 On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Jacob Carlborg<doob me.com>  wrote:

 On 2011-03-09 11:11, Trass3r wrote:

 How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one,
 DWT for example.


 Good idea, but rather improve GtkD or QtD.


 Too bad that's the general opinion people seem to have about GUI libraries.
 I don't understand what they don't like about DWT.

 BTW, I received a patch for DWT which makes it work with D2.


 Coming from the Java world, I'm a big fan of SWT because it's fast and
 native, and I started out using DWT, but I was frightened away when I
 realized that DWT contains a reimplementation of a significant portion
 of the Java standard library. It just seems like a decent UI framework
 for D shouldn't require another language's standard library to be
 ported over, but maybe I'm just critical.
 Where would I find DWT for D2?


If the DWT code is as close as possible to the original SWT it's easier 
to merge future versions of SWT.

DWT for D2 is currently not finished.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Mar 10 2011
prev sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/9/11 1:24 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2011-03-08 20:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one,
 DWT for example.


Ideally we'd get the authors of the respective libraries weigh in to 
assess what help they need.

Andrei
Mar 09 2011
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-09 17:00, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 3/9/11 1:24 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2011-03-08 20:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 How about a GUI library. Probably helping with an already existing one,
 DWT for example.


 Ideally we'd get the authors of the respective libraries weigh in to
 assess what help they need.

 Andrei


For DWT I can answer that:

* Finish porting to D2 (I've received a patch that does this, not 
applied yet)
* Finish the Mac OS X port and merge it with the DWT2 repository
* Update to later versions of SWT
* Port 64bit versions of SWT (probably we want to merge the 32bit and 
64bit ports)

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 08/03/2011 19:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


I've added two ideas in the IDE category, for Eclipse. (dunno why this 
NG message wasn't sent earlier)


I was thinking if anything related to debugger integration could be 
added, but I suspect (from what I recall from my conversations with Ary 
a long time ago) that adding Eclipse support for debugger should be 
fairly easy (and particularly a lot of code might from Descent might be 
reusable, since this is not much related to semantic analysis).

Instead, the greatest effort comes from debugger support itself. In 
Linux OSes the situation is fine, gdb works well, but in Windows things 
are not so good. There is the ddbg debugger but it is no longer 
maintained (I'm not sure how good it still is); there is Mago the Visual 
D debugger, but from what I understand it can't properly be used from 
the command line (and thus be integrated with other IDEs); and there's 
gdb for windows, but that requires compiling and using GDC, which 
apparently has a host of issues and problems as well;

I wonder what is the best way to address these issues. I definitely hope 
the Windows platform doesn't further become a second-rate target for D 
development.

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Mar 09 2011
next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-09 13:30, Bruno Medeiros wrote:

 On 08/03/2011 19:37, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 Thanks,

 Andrei


 I've added two ideas in the IDE category, for Eclipse. (dunno why this
 NG message wasn't sent earlier)


 I was thinking if anything related to debugger integration could be
 added, but I suspect (from what I recall from my conversations with Ary
 a long time ago) that adding Eclipse support for debugger should be
 fairly easy (and particularly a lot of code might from Descent might be
 reusable, since this is not much related to semantic analysis).

 Instead, the greatest effort comes from debugger support itself. In
 Linux OSes the situation is fine, gdb works well, but in Windows things
 are not so good. There is the ddbg debugger but it is no longer
 maintained (I'm not sure how good it still is); there is Mago the Visual
 D debugger, but from what I understand it can't properly be used from
 the command line (and thus be integrated with other IDEs); and there's
 gdb for windows, but that requires compiling and using GDC, which
 apparently has a host of issues and problems as well;

 I wonder what is the best way to address these issues. I definitely hope
 the Windows platform doesn't further become a second-rate target for D
 development.


GDB doesn't work on Mac OS X as well as it does on Linux. Anything 
related to line number won't work. DMD still can't output the correct 
DWARF info on Mac OS X.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling parent reply Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 3/9/11, Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> wrote:

 but that requires compiling and using GDC, which
 apparently has a host of issues and problems as well;


It doesn't have much building problems anymore. There's a couple of
patches that need to be applied, but everything is described here:
https://gist.github.com/857381

I've successfully used GDB as well. I pass the -g flag for debug
symbols, and it works fine this way when loading the exe in GDB.
Mar 09 2011
parent Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 09/03/2011 16:12, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

 On 3/9/11, Bruno Medeiros<brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail>  wrote:

 but that requires compiling and using GDC, which
 apparently has a host of issues and problems as well;


 It doesn't have much building problems anymore. There's a couple of
 patches that need to be applied, but everything is described here:
 https://gist.github.com/857381

 I've successfully used GDB as well. I pass the -g flag for debug
 symbols, and it works fine this way when loading the exe in GDB.


I didn't mean problems with compiling GDC. I meant in terms of how 
mature and stable GDC is compared to DMD. From what I hear and 
understand, it has gotten much better, and it also easier to keep with 
DMD now. But it wasn't always the case, and it also not guaranteed that 
it will remain the case...

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Mar 23 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Masahiro Nakagawa" <repeatedly gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 04:37:43 +0900, Andrei Alexandrescu  
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:


 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.  
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas



 Bindings to popular IPC/RPC protocols such as Protocol Buffers and  
 Apache Thrift

 Key Skills: Intimate knowledge of cross-machine communication protocols. 
 Large-scale programming using D requires bindings to cross-machine and  
 cross-language communication protocols. Such include Google's  Protocol  
 Buffers,  Apache Thrift, and others. D's standard library currently  
 includes no such protocol implementation. Providing such would motivate  
 adoption of D for large-scale development.


Protocol Buffers and Thrift need code generation using IDL unlike  
MessagePack, BERT, etc.
Such protocols are acceptable to Phobos?
Mar 09 2011
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/9/11 7:34 AM, Masahiro Nakagawa wrote:

 On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 04:37:43 +0900, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:
 

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital 
 Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


 

 Bindings to popular IPC/RPC protocols such as Protocol Buffers and 
 Apache Thrift

 Key Skills: Intimate knowledge of cross-machine communication 
 protocols.Large-scale programming using D requires bindings to 
 cross-machine and cross-language communication protocols. Such include 
 Google's Protocol Buffers, Apache Thrift, and others. D's standard 
 library currently includes no such protocol implementation. Providing 
 such would motivate adoption of D for large-scale development.


 
 Protocol Buffers and Thrift need code generation using IDL unlike 
 MessagePack, BERT, etc.
 Such protocols are acceptable to Phobos?


I'm not sure how to go about the IDL compilers themselves. What I can do
is to try to add D generation to Thrift if someone implements it.

Andrei
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Masahiro Nakagawa" <repeatedly gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 04:37:43 +0900, Andrei Alexandrescu  
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:


 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital Mars.  
 Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:

 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas



 Networking


I think high level networking is a part of IO.
But unfortunately, Phobos does not have IO model.
Does this idea include new IO model discussion?
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jens Mueller <jens.k.mueller gmx.de> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I just submitted an application for GSoC 2011 on behalf of Digital
 Mars. Please review and contribute to the project ideas page:
 
 http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GSOC_2011_Ideas


I did some research on Protocol Buffers. I found
https://256.makerslocal.org/wiki/index.php/ProtocolBuffer
Further it seems that Google encourages writing a plugin for their
compiler
(http://code.google.com/apis/protocolbuffers/docs/reference/other.html).
Maybe the above project can be adapted. Because a plugin has to read a
special request from stdin and output a special response to stdout.

Jens
Mar 09 2011
prev sibling parent reply Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
How about adding more stuff to CTFE, esp. pointers and classes?
Mar 10 2011
parent reply Nebster <Evil.Nebster gmail.com> writes:
On 10/03/2011 19:36, Trass3r wrote:

 How about adding more stuff to CTFE, esp. pointers and classes?


Or get Algebraic data types to typecheck in the compiler :)
Mar 11 2011
parent reply Gary Whatmore <no spam.sp> writes:
Nebster Wrote:


 On 10/03/2011 19:36, Trass3r wrote:

 How about adding more stuff to CTFE, esp. pointers and classes?


 
 Or get Algebraic data types to typecheck in the compiler :)


Stop trolling. We should really ban these Tango fanboys here.

Nobody really wants to turn D into an ivory tower hell with all the functional
language features. Even bearophile was trolling recently. Why remembers the
'where' syntax. *Vomit*

Nick S. is right, we should use HTML for our documents too. Maybe some stupid
typography expert cares, but the majority (99%) of users don't. They've used to
browsing broken HTML pages, DDOC is good enough for them. It has also shown
potential as a general typesetting system for technical documentation in the
digitalmars site.
Mar 11 2011
parent reply Nebster <Evil.Nebster gmail.com> writes:
On 11/03/2011 20:03, Gary Whatmore wrote:

 Nebster Wrote:


 On 10/03/2011 19:36, Trass3r wrote:

 How about adding more stuff to CTFE, esp. pointers and classes?


 Or get Algebraic data types to typecheck in the compiler :)


 Stop trolling. We should really ban these Tango fanboys here.

 Nobody really wants to turn D into an ivory tower hell with all the functional
language features. Even bearophile was trolling recently. Why remembers the
'where' syntax. *Vomit*

 Nick S. is right, we should use HTML for our documents too. Maybe some stupid
typography expert cares, but the majority (99%) of users don't. They've used to
browsing broken HTML pages, DDOC is good enough for them. It has also shown
potential as a general typesetting system for technical documentation in the
digitalmars site.


Haha, I hate tango >.>
Phobos is better in my opinion (or I prefer it at least)! I just read in 
the documentation that it is a possible extension so I thought it would 
be a good Google Code project :P
Mar 12 2011
parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 12.03.2011 18:16, schrieb Nebster:

 On 11/03/2011 20:03, Gary Whatmore wrote:

 Nebster Wrote:


 On 10/03/2011 19:36, Trass3r wrote:

 How about adding more stuff to CTFE, esp. pointers and classes?


 Or get Algebraic data types to typecheck in the compiler :)


 Stop trolling. We should really ban these Tango fanboys here.

 Nobody really wants to turn D into an ivory tower hell with all the
 functional language features. Even bearophile was trolling recently.
 Why remembers the 'where' syntax. *Vomit*

 Nick S. is right, we should use HTML for our documents too. Maybe some
 stupid typography expert cares, but the majority (99%) of users don't.
 They've used to browsing broken HTML pages, DDOC is good enough for
 them. It has also shown potential as a general typesetting system for
 technical documentation in the digitalmars site.


 Haha, I hate tango >.>


Come on, don't be an idiot. Gary is a troll, just ignore him.


 Phobos is better in my opinion (or I prefer it at least)!


No reason to "hate" Tango.


 I just read in
 the documentation that it is a possible extension so I thought it would
 be a good Google Code project :P
Mar 12 2011
parent reply Nebster <Evil.Nebster gmail.com> writes:
On 12/03/2011 17:23, Daniel Gibson wrote:

 No reason to "hate" Tango.


Ok, I don't really hate Tango, I just prefer Phobos because I got used 
to it first :)
Mar 13 2011
parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 14.03.2011 02:21, schrieb Nebster:

 On 12/03/2011 17:23, Daniel Gibson wrote:

 No reason to "hate" Tango.


 Ok, I don't really hate Tango, I just prefer Phobos because I got used
 to it first :)


This is perfectly fine :)

Just don't feed the trolls and don't let them provoke baseless insults ;)
Mar 13 2011
parent troll king <troll lol.lol> writes:
Daniel Gibson Wrote:


 Am 14.03.2011 02:21, schrieb Nebster:

 On 12/03/2011 17:23, Daniel Gibson wrote:

 No reason to "hate" Tango.


 Ok, I don't really hate Tango, I just prefer Phobos because I got used
 to it first :)


 
 This is perfectly fine :)
 
 Just don't feed the trolls and don't let them provoke baseless insults ;)


Looks liek Us have really raised teh bar. U can see how useless bikeshedding is
almost gone and people really spend their short time improving D. D has matured
thanks to trolling whenever idiotism wreaks havoc. I'd call it an Epic Success.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cott1200/temp/successful-troll.jpg
Mar 14 2011