www.digitalmars.com         C & C++   DMDScript  

digitalmars.D - Free Software needs Free Documentation

reply spir <denis.spir gmail.com> writes:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-doc.html

I think this applies directly to D2.

Note: this post is no offence to Andrei's great work. Just a report we /also/ 
need a free/copyleft D2 manual; or that TDPL's content becomes free in a short 
while. Even more since TDPL was kind of a premature publication, describing 
not-yet-implemented, even less validated, features. Online addenda / 
corrections / rewritings cannot fill the gap.
Unfortunately, our society's culture is such that people will rarely *buy* a 
free-like-in-freedom book to thank authors and allow them going on working for 
the community. This nearly forces people who wish to get something back from 
their (usually huge) work to publish in a proprietary way; for software, even 
more PLs, making frozen manuals for live tools, and making improvements
impossible.

Denis
-- 
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com
Mar 24 2011
parent reply Don <nospam nospam.com> writes:
spir wrote:

 http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-doc.html
 
 I think this applies directly to D2.
 
 Note: this post is no offence to Andrei's great work. Just a report we 
 /also/ need a free/copyleft D2 manual; or that TDPL's content becomes 
 free in a short while. Even more since TDPL was kind of a premature 
 publication, describing not-yet-implemented, even less validated, 
 features. Online addenda / corrections / rewritings cannot fill the gap.
 Unfortunately, our society's culture is such that people will rarely 
 *buy* a free-like-in-freedom book to thank authors and allow them going 
 on working for the community. This nearly forces people who wish to get 
 something back from their (usually huge) work to publish in a 
 proprietary way; for software, even more PLs, making frozen manuals for 
 live tools, and making improvements impossible.
 
 Denis


I would say that what we really need is tutorials, rather than a 
refernce work. Most urgently we need to make sure that the existing 
tutorials that contain errors or refer to obsolete/removed features, get 
pulled down.
Mar 24 2011
next sibling parent "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net> writes:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:22:10 +0200, Don <nospam nospam.com> wrote:


 I would say that what we really need is tutorials, rather than a  
 refernce work. Most urgently we need to make sure that the existing  
 tutorials that contain errors or refer to obsolete/removed features, get  
 pulled down.


Something of interest:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/D_Programming

-- 
Best regards,
  Vladimir                            mailto:vladimir thecybershadow.net
Mar 24 2011
prev sibling parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 24.03.2011 16:22, schrieb Don:

 spir wrote:

 http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-doc.html

 I think this applies directly to D2.

 Note: this post is no offence to Andrei's great work. Just a report we
 /also/ need a free/copyleft D2 manual; or that TDPL's content becomes
 free in a short while. Even more since TDPL was kind of a premature
 publication, describing not-yet-implemented, even less validated,
 features. Online addenda / corrections / rewritings cannot fill the gap.
 Unfortunately, our society's culture is such that people will rarely
 *buy* a free-like-in-freedom book to thank authors and allow them
 going on working for the community. This nearly forces people who wish
 to get something back from their (usually huge) work to publish in a
 proprietary way; for software, even more PLs, making frozen manuals
 for live tools, and making improvements impossible.

 Denis


 I would say that what we really need is tutorials, rather than a
 refernce work. Most urgently we need to make sure that the existing
 tutorials that contain errors or refer to obsolete/removed features, get
 pulled down.


I agree. Even though D1 tutorials should be left as they are, maybe with 
a remark that they're D1 specific.

Some tutorials with examples, including basic ones that introduce the 
language, would really be helpful for anyone who wants to start using D 
without buying the book. These should be linked on the official D homepage.
After getting started with D it's not too hard to learn more specific 
stuff from the existing D documentation (Phobos documentation and the 
language specification). Of course Tutorials explaining these topics 
would still be useful, because you don't always know where to look for a 
specific feature.

I don't think something like TDPL needs to be available for free. Some 
tutorials and the existing documentation should be sufficient (For 
example "The C Programming Language" or "The C++ Programming Language" 
aren't available for free, either).

Cheers,
- Daniel
Mar 24 2011
parent spir <denis.spir gmail.com> writes:
On 03/24/2011 04:58 PM, Daniel Gibson wrote:

 Am 24.03.2011 16:22, schrieb Don:

 spir wrote:

 http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-doc.html

 I think this applies directly to D2.

 Note: this post is no offence to Andrei's great work. Just a report we
 /also/ need a free/copyleft D2 manual; or that TDPL's content becomes
 free in a short while. Even more since TDPL was kind of a premature
 publication, describing not-yet-implemented, even less validated,
 features. Online addenda / corrections / rewritings cannot fill the gap.
 Unfortunately, our society's culture is such that people will rarely
 *buy* a free-like-in-freedom book to thank authors and allow them
 going on working for the community. This nearly forces people who wish
 to get something back from their (usually huge) work to publish in a
 proprietary way; for software, even more PLs, making frozen manuals
 for live tools, and making improvements impossible.

 Denis


 I would say that what we really need is tutorials, rather than a
 refernce work. Most urgently we need to make sure that the existing
 tutorials that contain errors or refer to obsolete/removed features, get
 pulled down.


 I agree. Even though D1 tutorials should be left as they are, maybe with a
 remark that they're D1 specific.

 Some tutorials with examples, including basic ones that introduce the language,
 would really be helpful for anyone who wants to start using D without buying
 the book. These should be linked on the official D homepage.
 After getting started with D it's not too hard to learn more specific stuff
 from the existing D documentation (Phobos documentation and the language
 specification). Of course Tutorials explaining these topics would still be
 useful, because you don't always know where to look for a specific feature.

 I don't think something like TDPL needs to be available for free. Some
 tutorials and the existing documentation should be sufficient (For example "The
 C Programming Language" or "The C++ Programming Language" aren't available for
 free, either).


Seems you did not read carefully (meither my short post, nore the pointed 
text). I explicitely stated I would like people to pay (and I bought the book 
myself).

But the point is not there. Just like free software, the point of free doc is 
about permitting people to cooperate and making accurate, improved, evolving, 
work. The question is actually triple:

* Any such such work can benefit from improvements along time, including by the 
original author(s). This alone makes free doc worthy (think at wikipedia).
* Software is a "live" topic, so-to-say a moving target; especially new 
software like D2, that can evolve very fast.
* TDPL has been released long before final D2, even (as we see everyday on this 
list) before its design was actually completed (not to evoke spec).

About free-as-in-beer, I /do/ agree people should pay authors, at least for 
their time investment. But the issue is socio-cultural: I'm sure 95% of 
programmers would pay nothing, and the ones that would do it would pay less 
than common price; while all those who get a good revenue should pay *more* 
(this is what makes free price possible).

Denis
-- 
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com
Mar 24 2011