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digitalmars.D - Deprecations and removals process

reply Witold Baryluk <witold.baryluk gmail.com> writes:
Hi,

I just did unburrow my very old project from 2006. It was 
actually written initially in 2005 in D1, but in 2006, I update 
it to D2 (just simple changes like `char[]` -> `string`, and 
`.dup` -> `.idup` in one or two) and it worked just fine.

It is just 380 lines of easy code.

So now is 2021, I wanted to use it again. And it doesn't compile, 
requiring some fixes due to use of some old phobos stuff, and one 
minor language change.

I took it out, and after minor corrections (like `std.ctypes` -> 
`core.stdc.ctypes`), and `int` -> `size_t` (because I use 64-bit 
machine now, and should have used `size_t` from the start), 
`derr` -> `stderr`, and `writeLine` -> `writeln`, and convert 
`else {;}` which is deprecated (but makes an compile Error), to 
`else {}`.

Almost done...

I stumbled over our old friend `BufferedFile` and `OutputStream` 
from `std.stream`. It was easy to convert, but I wanted to make 
sure the semantic of the replacement is same as the old one, and 
what is the recommended replacement.

I was not able to find any mention of deprecation or removal of 
`std.stderr` in ANY DMD / Phobos release notes / changelogs.

I think this is tragic.

Don't get me wrong, deprecating stuff and removing them after 
grace period is fine, if we find better and more long term 
solutions. But they must be communicated VERY well.

I found the `undeaD`, which I never needed to use, (and because 
this program is small, I can just fix the program), and it does 
carry `std.stream`, and in one of the first commits ( 
https://github.com/dlang/undeaD/commit/d9bf1f2f3c00ae3139e9f5dcb883f32b2708d3c7#diff-6074870e72711b78f702f61a4143523ca5773e8a8fe6
6114e4f37d12640d118 ) it says, in September 2015:

```
Add std.stream and friends to undead.

Their documentation was removed from the site as of 2.068, and 
they will
be deprecated in 2.069. ....
```


However, changelogs for 2.068, 2.069 and all the one after it, 
doesn't mention anything of this sort.


I did found old docs, that do mention it is deprecated, but 
doesn't suggest replacements, why it is deprecated, and non of 
that is mentioned in changelogs.


https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.066.0/phobos/std_stream.html    - 
Warning about intent to deprecate / find replace.

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.067.0/phobos/std_stream.html    - 
ditto

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.068.0/phobos/std_stream.html    - 
ditto

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.069.0/phobos/std_stream.html    - 
ditto

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.070.0/phobos/std_stream.html    - 
Deprecation notice, and forward notice of removal in October 2016

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.071.0/phobos/std_stream.html    - 
ditto

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.072.0/phobos/std_stream.html    - 
gone (at least in docs, not sure if it is actually gone)


However, none of this is reflected in Changelogs / Release notes.


Is there a formal process for deprecation for D and Phobos, and 
procedures that such changes undergo, to make it clear and 
discoverable?

I still can not find discussions, bugs, about the deprecation or 
removal, that would allow me to understand what happened, when 
exactly, and how I should proceed.

The example was for `std.stream`, but this applies to many other 
modules in Phobos.
May 11 2021
next sibling parent Witold Baryluk <witold.baryluk gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 15:34:09 UTC, Witold Baryluk wrote:

 Hi,

 I just did unburrow my very old project from 2006. It was 
 actually written initially in 2005 in D1, but in 2006, I update 
 it to D2


I mean, in 2011 I updated it to D2. Typo.
May 11 2021
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Paul Backus <snarwin gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 15:34:09 UTC, Witold Baryluk wrote:

 Is there a formal process for deprecation for D and Phobos, and 
 procedures that such changes undergo, to make it clear and 
 discoverable?


The current process is described in DIP 1013, "The Deprecation 
Process":

https://github.com/dlang/DIPs/blob/master/DIPs/accepted/DIP1013.md

However, this process was adopted relatively recently, in 2019, 
so it would not have applied to the changes you mentioned in your 
post.
May 11 2021
parent Witold Baryluk <witold.baryluk gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 15:41:32 UTC, Paul Backus wrote:

 On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 15:34:09 UTC, Witold Baryluk wrote:

 Is there a formal process for deprecation for D and Phobos, 
 and procedures that such changes undergo, to make it clear and 
 discoverable?


 The current process is described in DIP 1013, "The Deprecation 
 Process":

 https://github.com/dlang/DIPs/blob/master/DIPs/accepted/DIP1013.md

 However, this process was adopted relatively recently, in 2019, 
 so it would not have applied to the changes you mentioned in 
 your post.


That is great. Is there some tool that I can run on two Phobos 
versions, and compare them programmatically and see which public 
symbols and modules get removed, to enforce this DIP?
May 11 2021
prev sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 5/11/21 11:34 AM, Witold Baryluk wrote:

 I was not able to find any mention of deprecation or removal of 
 `std.stderr` in ANY DMD / Phobos release notes / changelogs.


That's odd. stderr should be alive and well, why isn't it?
May 11 2021
parent Witold Baryluk <witold.baryluk gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 15:46:06 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 5/11/21 11:34 AM, Witold Baryluk wrote:

 I was not able to find any mention of deprecation or removal 
 of `std.stderr` in ANY DMD / Phobos release notes / changelogs.


 That's odd. stderr should be alive and well, why isn't it?



I mean `std.stream`.  Silly typo. Sorry!
May 11 2021